I move that Senator Patrick Baxter be elected Leas-Chathaoirleach. I do not think it is necessary to enumerate the qualifications of Senator Baxter for the position of Leas-Chathaoirleach. He is well known to practically all members of the House. He was not elected to the Seanad on a Party panel. He was elected on the nomination of the I.A.O.S., as a representative of agriculture. I understand his national record is very outstanding. I do not know very much about national records; other members of the House would know more about them than I do but Senator Baxter, to my knowledge, has devoted a great deal of time to public life on various public boards. He has also had a long and varied experience of Parliamentary work both in the Dáil and in the Seanad. In that way, his services will be of great benefit to the House in keeping us all in order. He will be able to assist the Cathaoirleach in many ways. Senator Baxter is, I think, a very competent gentleman, and I am glad to note that nobody is being proposed to oppose him. I hope that his election like the election of the Cathaoirleach, will be unanimous.
Election of Leas-Chathaoirleach.
I have great pleasure in seconding the motion and I hope that Senator Baxter's election will be unanimous. I am sure that if elected he will fill the position with dignity, and that because of his keen sense of justice, everybody in this House will be assured of a fair hearing from him. I am confident also that any decisions he may be called upon to make in carrying out the duties of Leas-Chathaoirleach will always bear the hall-mark of fair play.
I intend to oppose the motion that Senator Baxter be elected Leas-Chathaoirleach of the Seanad, not for any personal reasons and definitely not for any political reasons, but because the group of which I happen to be a member believe that Senator Baxter's qualifications do not fulfil the necessary requirements with regard to the Irish language and with regard to being able to conduct the business of the House in the language. As I say, there is nothing personal or political in my attitude or in the attitude of those associated with me. I realise the many good qualities Senator Baxter possesses but because we believe that the qualification to which I have referred is one of the most important, in fact the most important, qualification of a candidate for such a position, I, and many of those associated with me, intend to vote against the motion. Lest any political construction may be put in our attitude, I want to make it quite clear that the people who form the group to which I refer have been of various political associations in the past. Many of them are, in fact, not members of the Fianna Fáil organisation as such and the decision to vote against Senator Baxter was reached for the reason, and for no other reason, that he had not the necessary qualifications in our opinion to fill the position. I want to make it clear, further, that our group decided not to put up a candidate for this position in the belief that some of the other groups in the House would put up a suitable man. I think our sincerity cannot be questioned as far as our desire to have a member of a group other than our own elected to this position is concerned, since we left the various other groups a clear field for that length of time. I do not think there is any necessity for me to say anything more except to repeat what I have already said, that our opposition, or my opposition, to Senator Baxter is absolutely not on personal or political grounds.
Tá mé in aghaidh na tairgsinte seo de bhrigh go measaim nach cainnteóir Gaedhilge an Seanadóir Baiestear. Níor airigheas ariamh go rabh Gaedhilig aige agus más amhlaidh nach bhfuil, nó gan Gaedhilig ar a thoil aige, ní mheasaim gur ceart é a thogha mar Leas-Chathaoirleach ar an tSeanaid. Ní headh amháin sin ach measaim nach ceart é a thairgsint mar Leas-Chathaoirleach. Is í an Ghaedhilig an teanga náisiúnta faoi an Bhunreacht agus is suarach an rud dúinn mara bhfuilmíd ábalta duine do chur sa Chathaoir in san tSeanaid go bhfuil an Ghaedhilig aige. An post is lugha agus is suaraigh faoi an Riaghaltas, an cléareach is ísle, ní bhfuighe aonduine é gan cruthú go bhfuil an teanga náisiúnta aige. Agus táthar ag iarraidh annseo fear a chur i bpost onórach faoi stiúradh lucht déanta na ndlighthe atá aineolach ar an teanga.
Agus, gan ceist prinsiopail ar bith do bheith ann, rud atá ann, bheadh sé bacach go leor ar obair na Seanaide fear do bheith ós ar geíonn, agus a bheith in ainm an obair do stiúradh nach dtuigfeadh an méid a bhéas le rádh againn. Tá cuid againn annseo a labharfas an Ghaedhilig, agus caithfear admháil go bhfuil an cead sin againn faoi'n Bhunreacht. Agus má tá fear sa Chathaoir nach dtuigeann caidé tá ar siubhal againn, caidé mar is féidir leis an obair do stiúradh? Ar na hadhbhair sin, tá mé ag iarraidh ar lucht na Seanaide ina iomlán, gan an botún seo a dhéanamh gan adhbhar magaidh a dhéanamh den tSeanaid, agus adhbhar sgige agus fonnmhaide a thabhairt do mhuintir na tíre leis a leithéid de amaide. Níl an Ghaedhilig ró-láidir sa tSeanaid.
Níl, mhuise.
Ach níl sí comh lag san nach féidir le haon dream dínn duine d'fhagháil a líonfadh an post seo agus a bhéaradh comhthrom na féinne do aon duine gur mian leis labhairt sa teanga náisiúnta.
Aontuím leis an méid adubhairt an Seanadóir O Cuire agus an Seanadóir Mac Fhionnlaoich. Mar cuireadh in úil dúinn annseo, tá fhiachal ar dhaoine atá ag dul isteach san Stát-Sheirbhís eolas ar Ghaedhilg bheith acu agus 'na theannta sin, ní foláir do dhaoine atá ag dul isteach san Ghárda Síochána nó atá ag lorg postanna mar mhúin teóri Gaedhilg do bheith acu agus 'sé mo thuairim gur ceart eolas ar an dteanga bheith ag an duine a bheidh ina Leas-Chathaoirleach ar an Seanad so. Nílim chun a rá go bhfuil grádh ar chúis na teangan ar an dtaobh seo den Tigh amháin, mar tá fíor-Ghaelgeóirí ar an dtaobh eile a dhein obair mháith ar son na teangan nuair ná raibh morán measa ar chúis na Gaedhilge.
Do labhair an Seanadóir Mícheál O hAodha annso, nuair bhí toghachán ar siúl againn cúpla mí ó shoin, agus dubhairt sé:
I believe the Chairman of this House should have a sound knowledge of the Irish language and should be able to understand fully and at once speeches made in that language and questions put to him in that language.
Aontuim leis an méid a dubhairt an Seanadóir an uair sin.
Dubhras a thuille. Dubhras níos mó ná sin nár léigh an Seanadóir.
Táim ag léigheamh na rudaí a thaithníonn liom-sa.
Ná píosaí atá oiriúnach.
Is féidir leis an Seanadóir na rudaí a thaithníonn leis do léigheamh, más maith leis. Mar adubhairt an Seanadóir O Cuire, d'fhágamar an doras ar oscailt chun go mbeadh aon dream eile sa Tigh i ndon aon ainm eile do chur os ár gcóir mar Leas-Chathaoirleach, ach níor cuireadh aon ainm eile os ár gcóir. Níl locht le fáil agam ar an Seanadóir Baicstear. Tá meas mór air ag a lán daoine ach cuir i geás go raibh toghachán mar seo ar súil thall sa Ghearmán, an mbeadh na daoine ann sásta le duine nach raibh aige ach an Fhrainncis? Nó an mbeadh na daoine i Sasana sásta fear do chur i bpost mar seo nach raibh aige ach an Ghaedhilg?
Ní doigh liom gur gá a thuille do rá ar an gceist seo. Tá fhios agam go dtabharfaidh an Seanadóir O hAodha freagra orm ach níl aon rud eadrainn. Táimíd go léir ar aon intinn mar gheall ar chúis na teangan gur ceart í do chur chun cinn chó maith agus chó tapaidh agus is féidir linn.
I did not intend to intervene in this discussion, but I think it is time that somebody should call on the Seanad to face realities. I appreciate very much Senator Quirke's motives and the forbearance of his Party in not coming with a ready-made proposal and forcing it through the Seanad. There is something magnanimous about that and I genuinely appreciate it, but I am one of those people who do not speak Irish. I do my best to understand it and would do a lot more if it were not thrust down my throat at every turn. I love it; it is the language which I feel belonged to a lot of my people in the past, but I want the House to face this real fact, that everybody here thinks in English, or can think in English, and speaks in English. Very few of us can follow and fewer perhaps can speak Irish. If we want to be an efficient body and be of use to the country at large, and to the Oireachtas particularly, I think we ought to be able to work together and think together, to be able to argue with one another and appreciate each other's arguments, and those arguments should be put in the medium we can understand and all can use.
I intend to support Senator Baxter's nomination. I do so because I have known him for a considerable number of years. I have found him a singularly honest man— honest in his opinions—though I have often disagreed with him. He has long parliamentary experience and I have always found him very fair to those who disagreed with him. He has never been afraid to express his views, but he has always done so with kindliness and moderation. I understand from Senator Quirke that so far as he is concerned there is only one qualification missing, and that is that Senator Baxter would not be able to conduct the business of the House in Irish. I assume that is correct.
I never suggested anything of the kind, and I cannot see how Senator Douglas could have misinterpreted what I did say, which was that the outstanding qualification was a competent knowledge of the Irish language.
I understood from Senator Quirke that that was the only qualification he mentioned as being missing in Senator Baxter.
Certainly.
He did not suggest that there was any other one missing and, therefore, we are dealing with only the one point. I do not want to misinterpret the Senator and I did not do so intentionally. I agree with Senator Alton. I believe it is possible to overdo your enthusiasm and not face the facts. The fact is that a very considerable number of the total members of this House are in the same humiliating position that I am in, that is, when a speech is made in Irish, we have to turn to some other Senator to get the gist of what is said. That is not confined to any Party or group, but applies to the majority of the House, and I think we should face that fact. That being so, it is not practical politics to conduct the whole business of the House in Irish. If it were practical politics to conduct even most of the business in Irish, I think the objection would be perfectly well founded.
In coming to a decision on this proposal, I think that, speaking for myself and for myself alone, there are only two main considerations which should guide us. I will put the least important of them first, namely, that so far as possible, so far as the members of the House can contrive, the position of Cathaoirleach and Leas-Chathaoirleach should not be filled by the same Party—if there are such things as Parties in the House—or the same group. These two positions, after all, represent the entire patronage of the House. That, I think, is the least important, but nevertheless a very desirable consideration from our point of view. The second, and I think the more important, consideration is that, although I agree with Senator Douglas that only a very small minority of the House can conduct the proceedings in our own language, there is such a minority, and a still more important factor which none of us seems to have adverted to is, that in the original Constitution of Saorstát Eireann the native language got, not indeed pride of place, but an equal place with English. That precedent was followed in the Constitution of Eire—or Ireland, as many of us would prefer to call it. Therefore, if anyone had raised on the occasion of your election, Sir, the objection that you did not have an adequate knowledge of Irish to conduct the proceedings here, and felt that so sincerely that he was prepared to press it to a division, I, although I was a very juvenile pioneer in the language movement in this country, if I were satisfied as to the accuracy of the judgement of people very much better able to judge your qualifications that I am, would have felt bound to vote against you.
With regard to the proposal before the House, in having the language not as the only qualification, but at least as the first qualification for the position, I make my position clear by saying that I was myself approached to allow my name to go forward as Leas-Chathaoirleach. I declined it instantly on the ground that I felt that I had not a knowledge of Irish adequate to conduct the proceedings of the House in Irish and, therefore, felt that I would not be justified in allowing myself to be nominated for the very high honour which certain people desired to confer on me. If I regarded that as the deciding factor in my decision as regards myself, I must also regard it as the deciding factor in regard to the proposal before the House. I do feel that the language has not got the recognition which it got in the original Constitution and in our more recent Constitution. Many years before, when we were still part of the United Kingdom, we made the language an essential qualification for becoming a matriculated student of the National University, and if at the moment I desire to become such a matriculated student, I could not do so without having at least a reasonable knowledge of Irish. I should like to feel that what we require as an essential for a matriculated student of the National University, we would at least regard as essential for the important position of Leas-Chathaoirleach of this House.
I should like to feel that Senator Baxter had that essential qualification because it is with very great reluctance that I will vote against his nomination, if it is pressed to a division; but I have had no evidence whatever that he has such a qualification. I think it is unfortunate that in selecting somebody for this office, regard was not had to the fact that there is even a very small minority of the House who desire to take part in its deliberations in the native language, and that some care was not taken to see that whoever would be appointed would have the same ability to keep order in the House while that minority—unfortunately, as I say, a small minority— desired to address the House in their own language, on the ground that that small minority is entitled to the same privileges as the majority who cannot speak our own language. For that reason, I feel that I have no option but to give my vote to somebody who has a competent knowledge of the language. Finally, and not quite so important, if this is to be a vocational House, I hope that in such matters as the filling of offices in the gift of the House, we will not be guided by Party or group considerations, but by considerations of first principles, and in the filling of this office, the first principle is a competent knowledge of Irish.
Níor mhiste domhsa roinnt rá ar an gceist seo. Ar an gcéad dul síos, níl ach aon locht amháin le fáil ar an Seanadóir Baisctear mar Leas-Chathaoirleach. Sé an locht é sin ná nach bhfuil an Ghaedhilg, mar a dubhairt an Seanadóir MacFhionnlaoich, ar a thoil aige. Níl fhios agam an bhfuil morán daoine annso go bhfuil an Ghaedhilg ar a dtoil acu, ach nuair chuireas ainm Seanadóra os cóir an Tighe cúpla mi ó shoin—fear go bhfuil an Ghaedhilg ar a thoil aige—níor chaith an Seanadóir Mac Fhionnlaoich a bhóta ar a shon. D'fhan sé in a shuidhe gan vótáil. Is deachair a chreidiúint go bhfuil na daoine seo dá ríribh ar aon chor. Nuair a thairg mise duine dóibh mar Chathaoirleach go raibh an Ghaedhilg ar a thoil aige chun obair an tSeanaid do dhéanamh níor glacadh leis. Cuireadh sa Chathaoir fear ná fuil i n-iúil ar an obair sin do dhéanamh tríd an nGaedhilg.
Ceist!
Níl aon cheist mar gheall air. Chruthuigh an Seanadóir Pádraig O Máille go soiléir anso é. Is fuath liom bheith ag tagairt don rud so, agus nílim chun a thuille do rá ina thaobh. Cuireann an díospóireacht seo i gcuimhne dhom sgéal i dtaobh an fhir a chuaidh isteach sa tigh chun a shuipéar d'ithe. Fuair sé muga bainne agus bhí luch ann, agus ní ólfadh sé an bainne. Chaith bean an tighe an luch amach an dorus agus thug sí an bainne thar n-ais go dtí an fear ach ní ólfadh sé annsan é. "Is deacair daoine do shásamh," arsa an bhean, "ní olfá é agus an luch ann agus ní olfá é agus an luch as."
This debate has a certain amount of unreality in it and, as I have said, reminds me of a well-known story in Irish that some Senators may have heard in English. It is about a number of men, including the man of the house, who had been working in a field and who went in to their supper. When the man of the house looked into his mug of milk, he found a mouse in it, and said to his wife: "I will not drink that." She went to the door and threw out the mouse and brought back the milk to the man. He said: "I will not drink that," and she said: "Some people cannot be satisfied. You won't drink milk with a mouse in it, and you won't drink milk with a mouse out of it." When this House was asked to elect a man to the Chair who is one of the most competent of Irish speakers, Senator McGinley would not vote for him. Now, apparently, he cannot vote for a Senator who has not a competent knowledge of Irish for the Vice-Chair. It is very difficult to believe that there is any reality or sincerity behind that kind of operation. The most important qualification for a Chairman in this House is not a knowledge of Irish. Anybody who gives any thought to parliamentary institutions will realise that.
I went to some trouble before to put into the Chair a man who had a knowledge of Irish, who was completely competent for the doing of the business, and had other qualifications for the Chair. On that occasion, I took particular care to say that I would not elect to the Chair, or to the Vice-Chair, or to any other post, a man who was incompetent to fill the job, even though he had a knowledge of Irish. The most important thing for us is to get somebody who can fill the Chair properly. If he has a knowledge of Irish, well and good; as a matter of fact, I would prefer it. But, Senator McGinley, who wants a Vice-Chairman with a completely satisfactory and competent knowledge of Irish, did not vote for such a person when he was proposed for the Chair. Senator Healy quoted something I said and, as I pointed out to him, he quoted only what satisfied himself. I will not read the quotation, but I did say that a Chairman of the House should have a sound knowledge of the Irish language and should be able to understand fully and at once speeches made in that language. I went on to say:
"In spite of what we have heard in Irish, however, the majority Party have not seen fit to accept this principle and propose for the Chair a person competent to transact the business in Irish."
It is a distasteful subject and I do not want to enter into it, except to say to the people, whether they call themselves a group or a Party, and however they are composed, that they are able to trample on the principle in one respect and then come along in the most virtuous, and I am tempted to say but I will not say, pharisaical manner, to uphold the principle.
Senator Baxter is a man who has had long association with national movements, plenty of experience of public life, good parliamentary knowledge, and has as much interest in the Irish language, and has given as much proof of his interest in it as most people here. I take no credit myself for knowing and speaking the Irish language. There are people who do not speak Irish and who do not know Irish, but who, at the same time, have a great interest in it and have done a great deal of work for it. Deputy Baxter is one of these. I am going to vote for him. I share to some degree the views of a Senator who said that the kind of thing we hear put forward about Irish really makes one wonder how the Irish language is going to survive some of its advocates.
I feel that before this goes to a vote it ought to be cleared up a little. Personally I have the greatest possible respect for the idea that the Irish language should be made a qualification for anyone who is appointed to office in this House. As some Senators may remember I did my best to give effect to that idea in the last Seanad. But we seem to be proceeding in this question on the altogether unproved assumption that Senator Baxter has not a knowledge of Irish. As one Senator who cannot say with any certainty whether or not that is so, I do not think it is fair that we should propose to have a vote on this question until we are a little more satisfied than the evidence that has been put before us so far would cause any reasonable person to be. As far as my knowledge of Senator Baxter is concerned, I know he was a member of the Gaeltacht Commission over ten years ago, and I should be very much surprised, if there was an examination, to find that Senator Baxter would not turn out to be as well able to conduct the business of the House, in so far as it requires to be done, through the medium of Irish, as you are yourself, Sir. It sounds perhaps a little Gilbertain, but the whole trend of the discussion on this subject seems to be working itself up towards a state of affairs in which we will have to have an examination in elementary Irish before we can appoint anybody to anything in this House.
Agus ba cheart é sin.
When we have that idea put into practice we ought to change the titles of Chairman and Vice-Chairman and call them Keeper and Vice-Keeper, which would be more appropriate titles. We heard a lot about "Gaedhilg ar a thoil" for the Chairman and Vice-Chairman. There is no one who would agree with that principle more than I would. But we are faced with a situation in which that principle was not observed by the people who are now insisting on its observation. There can be no question about it that it was not observed. Nobody can get up and tell me that it was observed in the last vote on a question like this in this House. To pretend that it was, is simply throwing dust in the eyes of the public and nothing else. When you take that line in one case; when you are satisfied with the minimum in one case and you demand the maximum in a perfectly similar case, we are entitled to ask that there should be some fair play. If we are going to vote on this question on the assertion of Senator Quirke that Senator Baxter has not a competent knowledge of Irish, we are stultifying the procedure of the House and stultifying ourselves. What qualification has Senator Quirke to tell us anything about Deputy Baxter's competency in the matter of Irish? If it is to be argued let it be argued on some sort of sane basis. I have, as I have said again and again, the greatest respect for those who have a knowledge of the Irish language, but I am afraid that that respect shrinks to a very small quantity when it comes to a question of those who use their knowledge of the Irish language in order to make themselves deliberately and maliciously unintelligible to everyone else. That is what the Irish language is largely used for both in this House and in the other House of this Oireachtas.
Ní ceart sin.
I think that is ridiculous.
I have seen that happen several times already and I am prepared to assert without fear of contradiction that that is mainly the object of the use of the Irish language in this House. I speak as one who has the greatest possible respect for the Irish language and the greatest anxiety that the Irish language should be restored. But if the Irish language is to be used in this futile and half-witted fashion, there is no hope either for the Irish language or anything else in this country.
With your permission, Sir, I should like to make a personal explanation with reference to the remarks of Senator Tierney. Senator Tierney suggested that I constituted myself an authority on the question of whether Senator Baxter had a competent knowledge of Irish or not. I should like to say that that definitely is not so. In making my statement, I said that the reason we propose to vote against Senator Baxter was because of the opinion of people with whom I am associated that he had not a competent knowledge of Irish. I should like to go further and say that, if I had any doubts about it, I could not appeal to a greater authority than Senator Hayes, and the substance of his speech was, in fact, an admission that Senator Baxter had not the necessary qualifications in Irish.
Mr. Hayes
The substance of my speech was that Senator Baxter has not got sufficient knowledge to understand, let us say, Mr. Pádraig O Máille when he was in this House. Neither has the present Chairman, and that was demonstrated to us with the greatest malice.
I do not wish to transgress the rules of the House, but I do not think it is fair to let pass a remark made by a Senator behind me with whom I am not acquainted. I was in the Seanad which was dissolved in 1936. This Senator was not here then. I have not the honour of knowing the Senator, but I must take exception to the statement——
Is it in order for Senators to speak twice?
I listened to the Senator on his point of order, but it is against the rules of the House for a Senator to make a second speech.
I said that I did not want to transgress the rules of the House.
I suggest that the Senator is transgressing the rules of the House.
A very ugly remark was made about those who gave their life services to the Irish language and I must take exception to that. When we started in the city—including yourself, Sir—some 40 years ago——
I must press my point of order.
You have made your protest, Senator.
I have not a fluent knowledge of Irish, and on that account I must speak in English, though I should like to be able to conduct the whole debate in Irish. I rise to offer strong objection to the Senator who spoke—I think it was Senator Alton—about thrusting Irish down his throat at every turn. I think that it was very undignified for any Senator to use such an expression.
If it is considered offensive, I apologise to the House. I did not intend to be offensive.
I object to the use of the words and I am glad the Senator is withdrawing them. Remarks which are just as objectionable have been made by Senator Tierney. Surely at this hour of the day nobody from any side of the House should use such remarks. I am a member of the group who meet as supporters of the Government in this Seanad. I was elected on a panel quite apart from any Party, but I am proud to be here in support of the Government. I am also proud to be here as a supporter of the Fianna Fáil organisation, and one of the aims of that organisation is the advancement of the Irish language. People may point the finger of scorn at us and say we are not competent speakers of Irish, but we must maintain the position that Irish must be the principal language of the country.
You have let that principle down.
I maintain that we have not. Several of us would be capable of understanding Irish, but we are not fluent speakers of Irish. I hope to see the day when every Senator will be a fluent speaker of Irish—
Hear, hear!
——Why should we, at this time of the day, when we are making advances, try to outlaw people who come in here and speak in Irish and who, by the Constitution, have undoubtedly the right to speak through the Irish language? Are we going to outlaw them?
Mr. Hayes
You have done that. That has been said.
It has not. The word "malice" has been used. Malice cannot be attributed to any speaker from this side of the House, so far as the support of the Irish language is concerned. Senator Tierney has made a most objectionable statement.
I regret very much the attitude taken up by the last speaker. I thought that when the Seanad met and when they elected a Cathaoirleach unanimously we were laying the foundations of what was going to be a peaceable, well-regulated House that would do some good, in a legislative way, for the country. I thought the same thing would apply, and I had reason to believe it would apply, previous to your election, a Chathaoirligh, that if we did not create any objection, and if the Cathaoirleach was elected unanimously, the Opposition would have the right to nominate the candidate for the Vice-Chair. I got no definite assurance on that, I must say, but I gathered it and understood that that was the feeling of the people who are now opposing the proposal to elect Senator Baxter. I would like to ask a question of Senator Brennan, who spoke so vehemently against anybody getting a position who had not got a thorough knowledge of Irish. I would like to ask him would he appoint a manager to his business for no other reason or qualification than that he had a knowledge of Irish. I wonder what he would say to that. I wonder what would any of the other speakers say about the appointment if the only qualification such a man had was a knowledge of Irish. I say that the attitude of the Fianna Fáil Party, as I may term them now, is going to turn this House into a farce, and I would appeal, even at this eleventh hour, to Senator Quirke and his Party to reconsider their decision.
They have made their protest at having a Leas-Chathaoirleach without a knowledge of Irish—I believe he has a fairly competent knowledge— and having done that, for the good name of the Seanad and for the peaceful working of the House, I would ask them not to call a division. We are aware that if Senator Quirke and his Party want to defeat Senator Baxter's nomination they can do it, but if they do it they will be not only turning the House into a farce, but they will be doing a great disservice to this House and to the Irish language.
Tá
- Alton, Ernest H.
- Butler, John.
- Counihan, John J.
- Crosbie, James.
- Delany, Thomas W.
- Douglas, James G.
- Doyle, Patrick.
- Hayes, Michael.
- Johnston, Joseph.
- MacDermot, Frank.
- McGillycuddy of the Reeks, The.
- Madden, David J.
- Parkinson, James J.
- Rowlette, Robert J.
- Tierney, Michael.
Níl
- Blaney, Neal.
- Brennan, Joseph.
- Byrne, Christopher M.
- Colbert, Michael.
- Concannon, Helena.
- Corkery, Daniel.
- Farnan, Robert P.
- Goulding, Seán.
- Hawkins, Frederick.
- Hayes, Seán.
- Healy, Denis D.
- Honan, Thomas V.
- Johnston, James.
- Kehoe, Patrick.
- Kelly, Peter T.
- Kennedy, Margaret L.
- Keohane, Patrick T.
- Lynch, Peter T.
- MacCabe, Dominick.
- Mac Fhionnlaoich, Peadar (Cú Uladh).
- Magennis, William.
- Moore, Maurice G.
- O'Callaghan, William.
- O'Donovan, Seán.
- Nic Phiarais, Maighread M.
- Quirke, William.
- Ruane, Thomas.
- Stafford, Matthew.
I would like to put this question: Whether in the event of another candidate for the vice-chairmanship being put forward from among those members of the Seanad who do not belong to the Government group, his candidature would be accepted by the Government group, provided that he had a knowledge of Irish that would meet the fullest and strictest tests that could be applied and is suitable in other respects.
That would be a matter for discussion through the usual channels outside the House.
As a matter of information, would you oblige the House by informing them in Irish what the position exactly is?
The failure by the House to elect a Leas-Chathaoirleach is without precedent, and I would suggest that an order be made for the election of a Leas-Chathaoirleach at the next meeting of the Seanad after this week. I think that certain notice is necessary before the election can be proceeded with.
Is it necessary to fix a date? Would it not be possible to move such a motion within, say, the next month. I do not know whether we shall be meeting next week or not. In those circumstances, would it be well to force us to have the election at a fixed date?
We do not know whether the House will be meeting next week or not. In my opinion, a motion can be tabled at any time, provided sufficient notice is given.
Perhaps, in the circumstances, it would be better to leave the matter open. Are Senators agreeable to that course?
Agreed.