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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Dec 1938

Vol. 22 No. 5

Public Transport—Establishment of Tribunal: Motion.

Question proposed:—
That it is expedient that a tribunal be established for inquiring into the following definite matters of urgent public importance, that is to say:—
(a) the present position of public transport (other than air transport) within the area of jurisdiction of the Irish Government, and
(b) in particular, the circumstances which have led or contributed to the present unfavourable financial position of the Great Southern Railways and of the other railway companies operating within the said area, and
(c) whether any and, if so, what measures are necessary or desirable in order to secure efficient and progressive public transport (other than air transport) in the said area, and
(d) in particular, whether—
(i) any further transport legislation,
or
(ii) any changes in the ownership or in the methods of administration or both in the ownership and in the methods of administration of existing transport undertakings,
are necessary or desirable.

The tribunal will be established under the Tribunal of Inquiry (Evidence) Act, under which it will be vested with all the powers, rights and privileges of the High Court, or of a judge of the High Court, in respect of the enforcing of the attendance of witnesses, the compelling of the production of documents, and so forth. It is considered desirable that the tribunal which is to inquire into the matters set out in the motion should have these powers. That is why the motion is being submitted to the House. I do not think that it is desirable I should speak at any length now on the question of transport, except to show that the matters mentioned in the motion are definitely matters of urgent public importance.

I have received representations from the railway companies operating here —the Great Southern Railways Company and the Great Northern Railway Company—that they have reached positions of acute financial stringency in which Government action for their assistance is urgently necessary if they are to carry on satisfactorily. Both companies estimate that the net income of their undertakings for the present year will fall short of the amount required to pay interest on their debentures. They have represented that their liquid assets are exhausted except for the amounts hypothecated to secure loans in recent years to meet capital expenditure, and that their position in the matter of cash resources to carry on the day-to-day working is precarious. Money is also required for the purpose of capital expenditure. The Great Southern Railways Company have mentioned a very substantial amount as being necessary to enable them to undertake the capital expenditure involved in closing uneconomic sections of their railway line and developing road transport. I think it is clear that the companies, under present circumstances, could not possibly hope to raise that capital in the ordinary way.

In these circumstances, the Government have decided that the time has come when major decisions on transport policy are necessary. It is considered desirable that before these decisions are made there should be a review of the situation by such a tribunal as we now propose to establish and that the decisions ultimately made should be based upon the information obtained as a result of such a review as well as of such recommendations as members of the tribunal may decide to submit. It is not possible, as yet, to give any intimation as to the personnel of the proposed tribunal except to say that it will consist of persons who are in a position to approach the consideration of the transport problem with unbiased minds. I do not think that we require a review by transport experts. I think that we require a review by people who can view the whole transport situation as it is and make recommendations as to the steps necessary to put it upon a basis which will enable public needs to be adequately served. I contemplate that the tribunal should do its work expeditiously and that we should have its report for consideration and subsequent action, if considered necessary, by the time the Dáil reassembles in February next.

It would seem as if the efforts made a few years ago to put the railways on their feet were entirely vitiated, if this tribunal must now be set up to try to find a new solution.

I congratulate the Minister on the decision reached, because in parts of the country which are remote from railways there has been a great deal of uneasiness in regard to this matter, particularly during the last ten or 14 days. Developments in agriculture and tillage have been, perhaps, revolutionary and, to some extent, successful. If the position is to be met, the demands of the remoter parts of our country, which are wholly unorganised and which may not be able to voice their views before this tribunal, should not be forgotten by the Administration.

We must welcome the effort the Minister is making to put our transport system on a sound basis and I am sure the House will gladly accept this motion. At the same time, it seems necessary to say that we cannot have any really scientific solution of the transport problem in Ireland if we consider only the area of jurisdiction of the present Irish Government, and I should like to suggest to the Minister the propriety of adverting to the similar problem which is agitating the minds of the people in "Hibernia Irridenta," as I previously described it. Every effort should be made to co-ordinate whatever solution of the transport problem is arrived at here with the solutions which are likely to recommend themselves to our northern neighbours.

If the Minister would take into consideration the point I made earlier to-day with regard to increased productivity, he would find a solution for our transport problem not available at the moment.

It is, I suppose, necessary to say that the legislation which was enacted in 1933 has not solved our transport problems. That is clear. These problems are there—as acute as ever. It is impossible to visualise the circumstances that existed in 1933 when the whole transport organisation of the country was on the verge of immediate breakdown and when the chaotic conditions existing offered very little prospect of clear-cut solution. These conditions have been modified. To a very large extent, the aim of the 1933 legislation has been accomplished. We hear occasional references to loopholes in these Acts and to successful evasion of these Acts. While it is true that there has been some successful evasion of the provisions of the Road Transport Act, 1933, that fact should not obscure the much more significant fact that it has been, to the extent of at least 90 per cent., effective in its purpose. Apparently, the extent to which we went in 1933 was not sufficient to remove the problem entirely. Consequently, it is necessary to reconsider the whole position. That is what we now propose to do in the light of the information which review by this tribunal may make available and of its recommendations. It is essential for us to keep in mind that one of the railway companies directly concerned has two-thirds of its line outside our immediate jurisdiction and that, to a large extent, its financial difficulties at the moment are due to circumstances in that area which is outside our jurisdiction.

I know that the transport position in Northern Ireland has been under investigation recently by a somewhat similar tribunal, the report of which was published some days ago. We shall, of course, have that report available for consideration in conjunction with the report of this tribunal when decisions upon policy and on the nature of legislation to be introduced are being taken. Increased productivity is, of course, a matter which would have a direct bearing upon transport, but we must not forget that for a great part of this country public transport was never an economic proposition and was provided only by means of Government subsidy or Government grant. While changing economic conditions might alter that situation, conditions have not yet changed sufficiently to make it possible for us to see a solution of our transport difficulties precisely on the lines on which a solution has been found in other countries. Our circumstances are different from those of other countries and, while anything that increases the wealth of the nation will have a direct reaction on transport, it will not be sufficient in itself to solve the problem.

Question put and agreed to.
The Seanad adjourned at 7.15 p.m. until Tuesday, 13th December, at 3 p.m.
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