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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 20 May 1942

Vol. 26 No. 14

On the Adjournment: Transport of Turf.

Senators will have heard the terms of the motion which I put down on the adjournment to-night, and a good many Senators will have seen in the ante-room of the Dáil certain exhibits of what might be called turf by some people, and which, unfortunately, I was not, according to the rules, allowed to bring into the House and to show around. Those Senators who are conversant with the process of producing turf would recognise them as being the top sod or the cleanings which are normally thrown into the trench before the sleán starts to turn out the turf. Two of those sods are no more than partly-dried grass, and the third is just the same, except that it is so wet that it is quite plain that that turf was never footed. Unfortunately, it has been in this House since Thursday last, and was inadvertently put in the sun by the person in charge; otherwise it would be a great deal wetter than it is to-day. The fourth one was got at Kingsbridge this morning, and it is a fair sample of some 50 per cent. of what is loaded into the waggons there.

Some of it is a great deal worse, but I definitely admit that a great deal of the other 50 per cent. is a good deal better. The fourth sod is very much the same as the first three. It is all grass the same as the rest, but mixed into the grass are a few "cipins" which do not make it any better. The first three sods are genuine samples of which I could have brought a whole basketful from several train loads of similar stuff which were standing at Mallow station on Thursday last. Some humorist had put six sods of good black turf on the top of each waggon. It is immaterial where the waggons came from, or where they were going, or whether the stuff was national or contractors' turf, or was turf bought privately and was being transferred. I maintain that, in the present emergency, affecting transport, fuel for transport, and fuel for warming the people and cooking, this stuff should never have found itself on a Great Southern Railways waggon. Moreover, in order to transport such a large quantity from the bogs, it is obvious that lorry transport must have been used. Farmers' carts could not have done it. Whether the consignment was national or contractors' property, or turf bought privately, to cut and transport useless stuff of this kind is a gross waste of national effort and money, and, under no circumstances, should it be offered to anybody as fuel.

The process of waste in the production of this stuff is, roughly, as follows: You get large numbers of men to cut it and save it. They are paid six days' wages and, from their wages, at very small cost, is deducted what is required for their food. I understand that they are pressing for a higher ration than they are getting at present. Anybody can see in the coffee-room in the Dáil to-day that the ration starts with breakfast for which there are two big slices of bread and tea. For lunch, there is a slice of beef, egg, six slices of bread and butter, and tea again. For dinner, there is a chop, turnips, eight big potatoes, and tea. They are charged a small sum for that. It is quite obvious that the cost of this food cannot entirely be taken out of the wages, and that some part of it must be borne by the public. The turf is loaded and off-loaded at the railhead, and transported long distances at a time of great petrol shortage. It is transported long distances by rail to the towns and cities, and then there are further off-loading and carrying processes before distribution starts.

Finally, it is sold to the public, when it will neither cook nor warm at a price of 64/- per ton or, retail, 3d. for 12 sods. That fuel is absolutely and utterly worthless and I submit to the Parliamentary Secretary that steps should be taken to prevent the transport from the bogs, under severe penalties, of this so-called turf.

Now is the time to make arrangements to prevent anything like this happening in the future. Many poor people in our cities and towns are having a hard time and every possible precaution should be taken to ensure that only turf which is fit for fuel is available for sale to the public. The poor people have to take or leave what is given to them. People with more money can pick and choose but these people cannot. We should try to imagine the position of working-class families in the top flats of tenement houses with very little light. They have a 1d.-in-the-slot meter operating for a few hours. They have to contend with high prices and they have not a great deal of bread. They have to depend on this kind of stuff to light their only fire. It is difficult to imagine greater discomfort, to people accustomed to other conditions, during the coming winter. And it is entirely unnecessary. This is not an attack on any individual. The Parliamentary Secretary has had, under very great difficulties, to start the whole of this turf campaign. He is doing his best. He cannot, personally, check every loading himself, but I think his inspectorate definitely requires overhaul in the interests of the public and, particularly, of the poor, who cannot pick and choose. Under no circumstances, should this stuff be allowed to leave the bog.

With the main proposition of the Senator, I am in absolute and complete agreement. At the present moment, no transport should be used except in the most efficient manner. The most scrupulous care should be taken, as a matter of high national responsibility, by everybody to see that whatever transport is available is efficiently used. Therefore, from that point of view, there is no question regarding this matter. The second thing I should like to say is that, so far from objecting to any complaint of this kind, I am looking for complaints and glad to get them. Complaints of this kind may be enormously valuable, not from the point of view of dealing with the particular instances themselves, but from the point of view of getting at some condition which is bad and which, with the knowledge of some particular proved and traceable instance, can be stopped. That is why I am very anxious to get complaints and to get complaints in a form in which they can be used in that manner.

That brings me to the particular complaint. It is a completely useless complaint from that point of view. The Senator said that I cannot be expected to check over every particular waggon. Had he given me the number of the waggon, I would have checked it over, and I would have told where it came from, and I would have told him the history of that waggon, what happened to it and what proportion of that sort of stuff did in fact happen eventually to be in it. In the absence of any such facts, it amounts to no more than that somebody has picked up half a dozen bad sods. There are bad waggons. We have had bad trains. When we know a bad waggon and when we know a bad train, we know where they are coming from and we know who is sending them, and we know the history behind the putting of that bad stuff on the train. We can deal with it and we can stop it. It is just the same in relation to general complaints that all the turf people get is rubbish and they cannot burn it. Those complaints are waste of time but when somebody comes and says: "I bought from a certain merchant on a certain day so much stuff," then we can trace it back to the merchant and if necessary further back than the merchant. We can prevent that sort of thing, to the extent to which it is possible, getting out again.

In the case of the complaints which we have received in Dublin, I have gone out of my way to go into them. Every complaint that has been brought to our knowledge has, in fact, been checked up and in every single case in which there was bad turf it has been replaced by the merchant. In the process of these examinations we have found things that were much worse than the mere fact that someone was getting bad turf. We found that merchants had said exactly as the Senator believed, that the customer must take what was offered to him and that he has got to put up with it and the customers were told that that was what the merchants were getting, and if they did not take it they would lose their licences. In other words, we came across a condition which showed that in certain cases of merchandise there was the grossest misrepresentation and sabotage of this national effort because so far from merchants being compelled to take bad turf they were forbidden to take bad turf.

I am grateful to the Senator for having made the complaint. I think that anyone who makes a complaint in such a form that it can be traced back is performing a service. I regret that in this particular case it cannot be traced back. As to the sods of which the Senator spoke, I think they came through Mallow. If they were national turf, and of that we have no evidence, they will have come from Kerry. As far as we know, they were going to Cork or Waterford. When the first supplies from Kerry started this year, some inferior turf came along. That was stopped and the general body of the turf coming from Kerry was very good.

I think a Kerryman would have been ashamed to load it.

Does the Senator say that this did not come from Kerry?

I do not know.

What does the Senator know about it? Let us have some reason in this matter. If it was national turf and if it was in Mallow, as far as I know, it could only come from Kerry and the Senator says it did not come from Kerry.

I did not say that it did not come from Kerry. I said a Kerryman would have been ashamed to load it.

There was one section in Kerry providing bad turf and that was checked up. If the Senator was in a position to tell me the number of the waggon, and if he said there were six waggons, I would have it checked up. I do not accept at all that there were six waggons. If he had given me the number of the waggon, I would know where the waggons came from and no further waggons of that type would have come forward. That is all I have to say on this matter. We are very anxious to see that no bad turf does come along. I am very anxious to ensure that no transport is misused in carrying stuff that ought not to be carried.

There is one limitation in that matter which men who are not expert in the knowledge of turf may require to have explained. It is possible that the fullest and most complete examination of consignments of turf coming into Dublin may show turf which is not completely saved, in other words, turf which is wetter than turf could be sent direct to the consumer.

There are circumstances in which that must be. The limitation on the whole turf position as far as the big non-turf areas are concerned is transport, and transport when it is available must be used, must be used completely, even if it is used to bring turf which is not in a fully saved condition, but which will save itself in the dumps. Last year we did bring into the cities a certain amount of turf which was not completely saved. Some of it was put into the dumps in a condition in which, having regard to the lack of experience as to what would happen in the case of such large quantities, we had some considerable doubt as to whether it would save itself. All these dumps have been cut right through and examined. Broadly speaking, a very high proportion of all the turf that came into the City of Dublin has saved itself there and is now dry turf. It is in the light of the knowledge that that stuff will save itself that we will take the responsibility of carrying into the city such turf as will be available, even if it is not in condition for consumption, when we know it is of a quality to enable it to be saved under these circumstances.

May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary a question? I gather from what he has said that national turf can only come from particular areas. Is there some responsible officer, who is responsible for seeing that the turf is loaded? Is there any system of inspection of the quality of the turf, apart from whether it is saved? You can have a quality of turf that it may not be possible to save. Is there a system of inspection of national turf before it is loaded? It seems to me that there should be some inspection of the loading of national turf, and I would like to know whether there is some such inspection.

There is a system of inspection of national turf, but that system of inspection is not as watertight, in my opinion, as it needs to be.

It is an inspection system which will be intensified steadily until we are in a position to reach that ideal, that such turf will not go forward. In a great many cases, we could, as a matter of fact, rely on not getting bad turf without that inspection.

Because you know that from a certain bog or area, bad turf will not come.

In my opinion, the cost which ought to be added to the turf by inspection might be increased with benefit, and the tendency will be to tighten that up all the way along the line.

Is this inspection by an officer of your Department?

It would be an officer either of my Department, or of the Fuel Importing Company.

I did not say six waggons: there were three trains of the same quality. While the people in this country do not make complaints, the complaints from one working woman or 40 working women in Dublin are not going to make an alteration. I was not at all impressed by the Parliamentary Secretary's reply because he turned on to Kerry. My point is that, whether it is Kerry, Clare or anywhere else, that stuff never should have gone out of the bog and on to a waggon. Since I raised this question, I have spoken to a great many other Senators and they have told me of the quantity of turf circulating around this city which is as bad and worse than what I have shown in the ante-room.

The Parliamentary Secretary said my complaint was useless because the particular waggon could not be traced. There are so many waggons of this stuff floating about, some of it all bad and some of it partly bad and partly good, that I am perfectly satisfied the complaint I have brought forward is quite sufficient to enable the Parliamentary Secretary to consider how he can tighten up this inspectorate and prevent this stuff coming out of the bog. It should be thrown into the trench and only black turf brought out to the people. We are not allowed to sell poitín; eggs are always graded before being sold; and there is always a very careful inspectorate about milk to make sure that it is not adulterated. In the same way, there should be protection for the public in regard to fuel to see that they do not get fuel of this kind. I am perfectly satisfied that what I have brought forward is sufficient to make the Parliamentary Secretary and his Department consider how the very serious situation at the present time can be corrected.

The Seanad adjourned at 9.5 p.m. sine die.

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