I move:—
That the National School Teachers' Superannuation (Amendment) Scheme, 1942, made by the Minister for Education, with the consent of the Minister for Finance, under the Teachers' Superannuation Act, 1928 (No. 32 of 1928), be confirmed.
National School Teachers' Superannuation (Amendment) Scheme, 1942—Motion.
Is le ceart ar phinsiún a thúirt do mhúinteóirí tuatha a mhúineas ábhair liteardha i Scoltacha Ceartúcháin agus i Scoltacha Saothair a ceapadh an scéim seo. Rinneadh sin ar mholadh an Choimisiúin Fhiosrúcháin a chuir tuairisc ar fáil roint bhlian ó shoin fá na scoltacha sin. Mhol an Coimisiún, freisin, gur chóir ceangal a dhéanamh idir an teagasc liteardha ins na scoltacha seo agus Scéim an bhun-oideachais. Rinneadh sin. Na hoidí a thugas teagase in abhair liteardha ins na Scoltacha Ceartúcháin agus ins na Scoltacha Saothair to glactha, ón gcéad lá d'Aibreán, 1941, mar bhun-oidí leis an gcuid acu a raibh a sáith cáilíochta acu chuige sin. Is as an Bhóta i gcomhair an bhun-oideachais a híoctar cuid dá dtuarastal leo. D'fág an socrú sin an oiread de cheart acu ar aois-liuntas agus atá ag oidí bun-scoile. Ar an ábhar sin táthar ar intinn Scéim Aois-liúntais na Múinteoirí Scoile Náisiúnta a leasú ionnus go mbeidh na hoidí tuata a thugas teagasc in ábhair liteardha ins na Scoltacha Ceartúcháin agus ins na Scoltacha Saothair ar an dream atá i dteideal tairbhe a fháil as an Scéim úd.
Déanfar áireamh i gcóir seirbhíse ion-phinsiúnta ar dhá dtrian den tseirbhís a bhí tugtha ag na hoidí sin roimh an gcéad lá d'Aibreán, 1941, tráth a glacadh leo mar bhun-oidí. Socrú mar é seo a rinneadh sa mbliain 1934 nuair a tugadh isteach fá scéim an phinsiúin congantóirí tuata agus fo-mháistreásaí conganta.
De bhrí nach bhfuilid lán-cháilithe chuige tá uimhir bheag de na hoidí nach bhfuil ach aithint shealadach fáighte acu. Tá deis dhá fáil acu le tuille cáilíochta a bhaint amach agus idir an dá linn íoctar iad do réir an phointe is ísle den scála. Leigfear isteach fá Scéim an Phinsiúin iad nuair a bheid cáilithe le aithint iomlán fháil. Áirmheofar, annsin, a gcuid seirbhíse i gcóir pinsiúin amhail is dá mbeadh aithint iomlán fáighte acu on gcéad lá d'Aibreán, 1941.
Ní mheasaim go bhfuil aon ní eile fá leith sa scéim is gá a mhíniú dhíbh agus iarraim dá bhrí sin ar an tSeanaid aontú go foirmiúil leis an Scéim. Tá an t-aontú sin riachtanach do réir Acht na bliana 1928.
Leasú iseadh é seo ar Scéim Aois-liúntais na Múinteóirí. Do gheall an tAire san Dáil go ndéanfadh sé a dhícheall chun na múinteóirí atá i gceist againn san tairsgint seo do chur ar an stad céanna leis na bun-oidí sna scoileanna náisiúnta. Chó fada agus a theigheas san, tá cólíonadh a gheallúna déanta ag an Aire agus is dóigh liom gur ceart dúinn glacadh leis an tairsgint seo.
I should like to pay a tribute to the Minister for what he has done for industrial schools and industrial school teachers. As Senators will remember, the Minister undertook to introduce a scheme to place the teachers in these schools in the same position as teachers in the ordinary national schools. Now, to complete the work, he introduces this pension scheme for lay literary teachers. If these lay teachers do not find their position improved, if in fact some of them find that they are in a worse position than they were before the scheme was introduced, the fault does not lie with the Minister or with his Department. Most of the schools to which this scheme refers are under the control of religious communities. In order that the teacher be recognised by the Department, paid his salary and given his pension rights, his name must be submitted for appointment by the manager of the school.
Senators will remember the discussions we had here about the conditions under which most of these lay teachers work. I do not want to dwell on this matter too long, as we shall be adjourning in a short time, but I should like to explain that in one of these schools there happened to be six lay teachers. The average required the appointment of 15 teachers on the recognised staff. The names of 15 members of the community were submitted for appointment, and were appointed, leaving the lay teachers exactly as they were. They cannot come under this pension scheme and they cannot get their salaries from the Department. They are working under exactly the same conditions as they were when complaints were made about these conditions about 12 months ago. In another school in the West of Ireland, there were three lay teachers on the staff. The number of teachers required by the average was three, but three members of the community were appointed. One of these lay teachers has a wife and four children, and has been teaching there for 16 years. I suppose these teachers were lucky enough to be left as they were. There is one of these schools in the Midlands. A woman had been teaching there for about 16 years. When this scheme was introduced, instead of being appointed to the staff and continued as teacher, she was removed from the school, and a member of the community was appointed in her place. She was offered some menial type of position in connection with supervision, which she refused to accept. Now, she finds herself unemployed. I mention these things to show that, while the Minister did his duty, his work has not brought any benefit to the bulk of the lay teachers on whose behalf the agitation for better conditions was, in the main, conducted. It has not brought any benefit to those about whom those of us who spoke on the matter were mostly concerned.
There is one other matter to which I should like to refer. It refers to the position of a teacher in County Donegal. His school—it was, I think, in Killybegs—was taken over by the military authorities and a couple of years ago he found himself unemployed. I am afraid that he will not come under this scheme. If he had been allowed to carry on in the school up to the present, he would have come under the scheme because he would be due to retire about this time. Because the military took over his school and closed it, he was unemployed and he is in a bad way. I should like the Minister to see if there is any way, either through the medium of the military authorities or otherwise, by which this position could be righted. As I understand, this teacher could not come under the terms of this Order.
One class of teachers who are partially qualified will now have to add to their qualifications. They have been teaching very successfully for some time and an injustice would be done if they were not permitted to continue and to take advantage of this scheme. Those of them who are not qualified in Irish or other subjects should be given ample time to qualify rather than have them deprived of the positions they hold.
I shall bear in mind Senator Cummins' point. If it is possible, by any reasonable extension of the time, to bring in these teachers, I shall endeavour to see that they get the extension, so long as it is clear that the inspectors must be satisfied as to their general attainments for teaching. Senator O'Connell will be glad to know that we have been able to get the Donegal teacher to whom he referred fixed up. I am glad to be able to say that the managers of another industrial school were kind enough to take him into their employment. I do not know that he will be able to continue for long in that employment. One of the reasons for my anxiety to get this scheme through was that he should, when he retired, get his pension. So long as he is in employment when this scheme is going through, he will be entitled to a pension. I cannot do anything about the other cases to which the Senator has referred. So long as the teachers have the necessary qualifications, I cannot interfere with the managers. The manager of a school can determine whom he will employ. Neither can I interfere with the order of seniority as laid down by the manager when he is appointing the teachers. I thank the Seanad for its co-operation in putting through this scheme.
Is it true that the amendment which was moved and passed in this House, and the Minister's agreement with us and the agreement in the other House, have had the effect of giving no money to the lay teachers, practically speaking, and giving no status to the lay teachers? Of course, I realise that it is not the Minister's fault.
I do not think what has been stated by the Senator is the case generally.
Is the case not as bad as Senator O'Connell makes out?
I think Senator O'Connell referred to two particular cases.
Three, to my own knowledge. There may be others.
Of course there is a large number of lay teachers who have benefited. The Senator knows that.
Question put and agreed to.
The Seanad adjourned at 9.5 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 2nd December.