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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Jul 1945

Vol. 30 No. 3

King's Inns Library Bill, 1945 (Certified Money Bill)—Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

This Bill is the outcome of discussions which took place between the authorities of the King's Inns Library and the Department of Finance. It was, I understand, represented to the Department of Finance some time ago that books in the library deteriorated, and that something would require to be done to have them reconditioned. The Department was impressed by the case made at the time, and agreed to make a grant of £3,000 last year, which was spent for that purpose. During the discussions the point was made that an annual grant of £430 odd, previously devoted to the purchase of books for the library, should be spent as between repairs to books and the purchase of books. In order to bring that about, the law requires to be amended, and at the same time the Department of Finance agreed to introduce the necessary legislation towards that end. These proposals are the outcome of the discussions. When this Bill was going through the Second Stage in the other House other points were raised, such as the provision of legal text-books, and so on, but as far as I know they do not arise.

I am informed that such matters are not really appropriate to this measure at all, but I have been asked to explain, for the information of those interested, that at the present time a committee which, I understand, is representative of the Law Reporting Society speaking for both branches of the legal profession is considering such matters as those to which I have referred. On that committee, there is also a representative of the Office of the Attorney-General. No report has yet been made, and it is not possible to say what action may be taken when a report is received.

The only observation I wish to make in regard to this Bill is not so much in regard to the Bill itself as in regard to the other matter which the Parliamentary Secretary has just mentioned. One of the difficulties that those of us who are engaged in the law meet, and which the ordinary public meet very much more than we do, as stated in the other House, is that there are very few text-books which deal with the law as it is since 1923. One of the reasons for that is that any book published here dealing with our own law is likely to have such a limited market that the cost of publication is likely to be prohibitive unless the price of the book is raised beyond the means or the desire of the ordinary public to pay.

I would suggest to the Parliamentary Secretary that his Department ought to consider making it clear to the committee which I know is considering this matter, that if it is deemed necessary in the interests of having the interpretation of the law available, some sort of subsidy towards the provision of such explanatory books should be made available. It is only by some such help that the provision of text-books could be kept at a price commensurate with what the public could pay purely because the circulation is bound to be very limited.

While I am on that subject, I may say that I fully appreciate that one of the difficulties that may exist in a period of emergency is the time-lag that is very evident in the preparation of official legal documents both in the King's Inns Library and elsewhere. This does make it extraordinarily difficult to carry on business. I do not know whether it is the business of the Department of Finance or elsewhere, but I would urge that provision be made to ensure that the Statutes are made available very much earlier than they are available at the present time.

I support this Bill as a Senator, and welcome it as a Bencher of King's Inns. I cannot understand why it should have provoked opposition in any quarter, especially as it is as far as I can see, the most non-contentious Bill that could come before any House. In the first place, it is the product of an agreement between the Benchers of King's Inns and the Minister for Finance, and the Minister is giving effect to that agreement by the introduction of this Bill.

It may interest the House to know where the sum of £433 6s. 8d. in the Bill comes from. In order to ascertain that matter, it is necessary to go back into history, and I think the historical background of this Bill is worth stating here in order that the House may know exactly what it is doing. I do not intend to talk about text-books and other matters which are irrelevant to this Bill. We have to go back to the time of the introduction of printing in the Fifteenth Century.

After the introduction of printing, copies of books multiplied and, of course, printing at that time was a potential for good and evil. Therefore, there was what I may call a rigid Press censorship. Out of that Press censorship, and later out of the law of copyright grew the practice of requiring publishers to deposit free copies of these books for the use of certain specified libraries. Now, the first time, as far as we can ascertain, when books were ordered to be deposited for the use of a national library was in the year 1537 when Francis I, King of France, in order to build up his royal library, issued an ordinance called the Ordinance of Montpelier, on December 28th, 1537, requiring every publisher to deposit a free copy of every book in his royal library.

The king intended at that time and by that means, to preserve for future generations the literary output of the nation from that onwards. Subsequently, in the year 1617, Louis XIII made a decree requiring that two copies of every book should be deposited for the use of the Royal Library, then at Paris. That idea of obtaining free copies of newly published books for the use of the State or the national library spread to other countries, including England, where it was used for the purpose of Press censorship.

The first Act, passed in 1662, was the Press Licensing Act. This required three copies of every book newly published to be deposited—one for the use of the Royal Library, the second for the Bodleian Library, and the third for the use of the University Library at Cambridge. The idea at that time was to censor all literature. The copy in the Royal Library was perused by the king's counsellors for the purpose of detecting sedition, and in the universities by the divines to ascertain whether there was anything blasphemous or contrary to religion. 1662 was the year that Act was passed, and it continued until 1694, when it expired. From that time there was no protection for publishers against the pirating of their books, so they petitioned Parliament, and in 1709 the first Copyright Act was passed shortly after the Union with Scotland.

By that Act it was required that nine free copies of all books published should be deposited. One of these went to the Royal Library which the King kept in his palace in London. Another of them went to the Bodleian Library at Oxford and a third to the University Library at Cambridge. A fourth went to the Sion College in London, a theological college, and in addition there were five free copies to be deposited for the use of Scottish libraries, one for the Faculty of Advocates at Edinburgh, and four for the Scottish Universities at Glasgow, St. Andrews, Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

That was in 1709. From 1709 onwards the publishers tried to evade the obligation. There was no copyright in Ireland before the Union with the result that a number of valuable books published in England were printed here in Ireland on inferior paper and undersold the orthodox editions published in England. When the Union was passed and came into operation on the 1st January, 1801, the British Government proceeded immediately to introduce a Copyright Act for Ireland. In introducing that Act the Government did so not so much for the benefit of literature as to protect the revenue because owing to the alleged pirating of copies of books in Ireland there was a diminution of the excise duty on paper payable in England at that time. When the Copyright Bill was going through Parliament in 1801 a clause was inserted in the House of Commons providing that a free copy of every book should be forwarded to Trinity College Library, Dublin, and when the Bill was going through the House of Lords a clause was inserted providing that a free copy should be sent to the Library of the King's Inns. That is the origin of this £433 6s. 8d. Under the Act of 1801 publishers tried to evade their obligations and in 1814 a further Copyright Act was passed requiring them to contribute these eleven copies but giving the concession of extending the copyright from 14 to 20 years. In 1836 a Copyright Act was passed by which publishers were relieved of their obligation to furnish free copies in six cases, leaving the obligation to furnish free books in five cases still there. These six cases were the Sion Library in London, the Four Scottish Universities and the King's Inns Library. That Act provided that in view of the right to receive a free book each Library which was so to speak disenfranchised should receive compensation out of the Consolidated Fund.

The Act provided that that compensation was to be measured on the average value of the books received by the particular library during the three years ending the 30th June, 1836. That valuation was made and the different libraries received different compensation. The library attached to the University of Glasgow got £707, the Library of St. Andrew's £630, the Library of Edinburgh University £575, the King's Inns £433, the Sion Library £363, and Aberdeen University Library £320—I am omitting shillings and pence—making a total of £3,028. This charge was made on the Consolidated Fund of the late United Kingdom and the grant continued to be paid down to the introduction of the Copyright Act of 1911 by which the 1836 Act was repealed. Section 34 of the 1911 Act provided that the right to receive compensation from the Consolidated Fund should continue but contained the provision that compensation should not be paid in any year unless the Treasury was satisfied that the money paid for the previous year had been spent on the purchase of books for the use of and preservation in the library. That grant continued to be paid out of the public moneys of the late United Kingdom until 1921. I do not know exactly what happened after 1921, but in 1927, when the Industrial and Commercial Property Protection Act was passed, Section 174, sub-section (1) provided that the right to pay compensation which obtained before December, 1921, should continue.

That grant has been a charge on the Central Fund since that time. The Benchers of the King's Inns have used the £433 6s. 8d. each year on the purchase of books. The intention, when the right to obtain free books was given, was that the libraries of the day should preserve them for a future generation. Unfortunately, it was forgotten that books cannot last for ever unless they are bound and re-bound. At the end of the last war the authorities of the library of the Faculty of Advocates in Edinburgh, which was a copyright library, found themselves in financial difficulties owing to the accumulation of a large number of books which had not been bound or preserved. They made a gesture of handing over the library to the nation and in 1925 it became the National Library of Scotland. The Faculty of Advocates retained the law books. These books required rebinding, and a Scottish benefactor, named Sir Alexander Grant, in 1923 made a donation of £100,000 to the Library of the Faculty of Advocates in Edinburgh.

The Minister for Finance here has made a donation of £3,000 to the King's Inns for the rebinding of books. The Benchers of the King's Inns appreciate that very much, because it will enable them to have valuable books in the library preserved for future generations of law students and scholars. The Benchers found that the sum of £433 6s. 8d., while very useful for purchasing books, could be usefully employed also in the binding and rebinding of books, and they made representations to the Minister for Finance for authority to use portion of that grant for the purpose of rebinding. This Bill is the result of these representations, and I can only say that the Benchers of the King's Inns appreciate very much what the Minister for Finance has done, firstly, by making the grant of £3,000, and secondly, by introducing this Bill so that they may have a free hand either to purchase books or spend the money on binding and rebinding. For these reasons I support the Bill.

I will not detain the House very long. I entirely agree with Senator Sweetman in what he has said, but I do not know that it is relevant to this Bill. When there is a question of a grant for the publication of books. I would like the Minister to remember to be generous towards the person writing the book. The circulation here is too small for it to pay anybody to write a book at the moment, and grants will be required if we are to keep up-to-date. The Incorporated Law Society have always been anxious to encourage people to publish, and they intimated their willingness to give a grant to anybody to publish a book on any subject which they approve. They are always willing to help the Minister in a matter of that kind.

I just want to make one small point. Senator Ryan said that he did not know why there should be opposition to the Bill. I have read through the debate in the other House, and as far as my recollection goes there was no opposition.

There was opposition; there was a division on the Final Stage.

There was a division on the Final Stage. It makes very interesting reading.

I should like to support the suggestions made by Senators Ryan and O'Dea in regard to the matter of text-books. There is a great difficulty at the moment, in so far as the Incorporated Law Society prescribes certain conditions, and these conditions cannot be complied with at present because the text-books are not available as the result of the present serious condition of affairs. Perhaps, the Parliamentary Secretary might convey a suggestion in regard to this matter—that is, pending the time when it will be possible to publish the text-books in this country—to the effect that an arrangement could be come to with certain well-known English publishers for the provision of these text-books, so far as Irish law is concerned. The difference between these text-books, after all, is not very much, and I think it should not be impossible for the English publishers, if they were approached in a proper manner, to leave out the parts which particularly relate to English law, as it stands at present, and to insert the parts, which are omitted at the moment, which provide for the existing Irish law. I am putting forward that suggestion as a temporary arrangement in order to meet the difficulties that exist at the moment. I am glad to hear of the arrangements that have been or are being made for the modernisation of this library, because it is well known that there is a great difficulty at the moment in view of the shortage of paper for such text-books.

As far as I can understand this, the amount of money mentioned in the Bill has been paid, in the past, to the King's Inns Library for the buying of new books, and I assume that the money has been spent, year by year, on the purchase of new books. Now, if that is so, and if portion of the money is to be diverted in the future for the purpose of binding or rebinding existing books in the library, it seems to me that there may not be sufficient money available for the purchase of new books and that, therefore, the original purpose of the grant will disappear altogether. That is a point which, it appears to me, should be raised in connection with this Bill.

I must confess that I cannot say to what extent the total sum of £433 6s. 8d., which was previously made available to the authorities of the library, was used for the purchase of books in any year, but from the information which has been placed at my disposal it appears that these authorities are satisfied that this sum, when divided between the purchase and the binding or the re-binding of books, will be adequate to meet their needs. Now, as one who has no intimate knowledge of the requirements of these legal gentlemen, I take it, and I accept it, that when they are satisfied with an arrangement such as this it must be all right.

With regard to the point raised by Senators Sweetman, O'Dea and O'Reilly, the fact that a committee is at present examining this whole question of text-books appears to me to be a clear indication that the difficulties are appreciated, and the further fact, that on that committee sits a representative of the Attorney-General's office, is sufficient to establish the point that all those responsible are aware of these difficulties. Naturally, I cannot say, and I think it would not be reasonable to expect that I should say, in advance of any report that this committee may make, what the attitude of the Department of Finance will be, but the House may safely take it, having regard to the way in which we have met these authorities, as Senator Ryan has explained, in the matter of the provision for the binding and re-binding of books and also the carrying out of the undertaking to have the sum that was annually provided for this purpose divided in this way, that we will not treat any reasonable recommendations of the committee in a niggardly fashion. I think I am safe in giving that undertaking to this House on behalf of the Minister for Finance and his Department.

In fact, there is no new money provided in this at all?

No, there is not.

And, therefore, the committee will be safe in recommending this?

Yes and more; but the Senator should not forget that this is following on a grant of £3,000, which was an additional expenditure, over and above that which the law provided.

Yes I know that.

Question put, and agreed to.

With regard to the next stage of the Bill, Sir, would the Seanad be good enough to give me all stages now?

On principle, Sir, I object to giving all stages of the Bill now, but it would appear that at this late stage we cannot do anything more. However, I wish to go on record as objecting to giving all stages now.

Of course, a Money Bill is in a different category.

Agreed to take the Committee and Final Stages of the Bill now.

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