Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 Nov 1946

Vol. 33 No. 2

Question of Procedure.

Mr. Hawkins

Before we proceed with the business to-day, I desire to draw the attention of the Cathaoirleach to a change made in presenting the Clár. Originally, on Committee Stage, amendments, termed Government amendments, were put down in the name of a Senator. We notice that in the Clár received to-day there has been a change made in this regard. Looking up the Standing Orders of the House we find it is provided:—

"All motions to be placed on the Order Paper for any day shall be in writing, signed by a Senator, and shall reach the Clerk not later than 11 a.m. on the fourth preceding day. Amendments to such motions, or to Bills, shall be in writing, signed by a Senator, and shall reach the Clerk not later than 11 a.m...."

and so on. Members on this side of the House are interested to ask for an explanation as to the cause of the change in procedure in this case.

An Cathaoirleach

On the first point, Senator, Government amendments do not come to us in the name of a Senator—they come from the Departments. The practice adopted to-day was authorised at a meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges— at its last meeting—and we put into operation the altered practice as so approved by the Committee.

Mr. Hawkins

Am I to understand that when members of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges come to a decision on any matter, that that decision is binding without it coming before the House?

An Cathaoirleach

That is what the Committee on Procedure and Privileges is for—to regulate the procedure, always subject to the ultimate decision remaining with the House itself.

Mr. Hawkins

I understood that their duty was to recommend but not to make laws.

An Cathaoirleach

So far as my experience goes, the Committee's recommendations have always been acted on. A recommendation made at that last meeting was acted on in another circumstance last week.

Mr. Hawkins

The Chair will understand that we must be very jealous of our rights, and that it is only right that, when a change is made in the procedure of the House, it should be questioned, and that if there is to be any departure we should know exactly why it is being made. We should be told the reasons for that departure.

An Cathaoirleach

The ruling I am giving to-day is not final. The matter can be raised again before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and it can also be raised, if necessary, by motion, in the House. We simply followed what we understood was an agreed procedure.

Mr. Hawkins

I take it, therefore, that we are accepting this procedure to-day without prejudice to its being raised again?

An Cathaoirleach

Certainly, Senator.

Mr. Foran

I do not know what is before the House.

An Cathaoirleach

I am ruling on a point of order raised by Senator Hawkins in connection with the amendment to the Referendum (Amendment) Bill. The Government amendment which appears on the Order Paper is not tabled in the name of a Senator. It is described as a Government amendment, as so it is, and Senator Hawkins is raising the point that formerly such amendments were tabled in the name of a Senator. I have just pointed out that the matter can be raised again before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and also, if necessary, in the House.

Mr. Hawkins

Strictly on the understanding that what we do to-day is legal when they are not being moved by a Senator.

Mr. Hayes

The process of challenging the procedure would be complicated and expensive.