Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 23 Nov 1955

Vol. 45 No. 8

Statutory Instruments (Amendment) Bill, 1955—Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister for Finance (Mr. Sweetman)

The Bill is designed to deal with certain procedural difficulties arising out of the operation of Section 3 of the Statutory Instruments Act, 1947, one of the objects of which was to ensure that reasonable publicity is given to the promulgation of statutory instruments. To this end, Section 3 of the 1947 Act prescribes certain requirements which apply to every statutory instrument not excluded or exempted from the provisions of the Act. Briefly, these requirements are as follows:— (i) each statutory instrument must be printed under the superintendence of the Stationery Office; (ii) as soon as a statutory instrument is printed notice of the making thereof and of the place where copies may be obtained must be published in the Iris Oifigiúil; and (iii) as from the date of publication of the notice in the Iris Oifigiúil, copies of the instrument must be kept and made available at the place specified in the notice.

In practice, difficulty has been experienced in securing the prompt gazetting of statutory instruments in the Iris Oifigiúil. This difficulty arises from the order of procedure prescribed by Section 3 of the 1947 Act, which requires a statutory instrument to be printed before it can be gazetted. Despite the best endeavours of the Stationery Office, delays frequently occur between the time an instrument is made and the time that printed copies of it are available. As a result, formal notice of the making of a statutory instrument cannot be given for some time after the instrument is made. Such delay conflicts with the spirit of the 1947 Act and has been the subject of adverse comment by the Seanad Select Committee on Statutory Instruments.

Sub-section (4) of Section 3 of the 1947 Act also fails to some extent in its purpose. That sub-section provides that a statutory instrument having printed on it the statement that—in the words of the Act—"notice of the making of the said statutory instrument was published in a particular issue of the Iris Oifigiúil, shall in any proceedings be prima facie evidence that such notice was published in that issue of the Iris Oifigiúil”. The object of this provision was to simplify proof of the gazetting of an instrument. It so happens, however, that because of the order of procedure prescribed in the Act it is impossible to arrange that the first printed copies of a statutory instrument contain a statement as to the date of gazetting, since printed copies of the instrument must be available before gazetting can be effected. This defect may be a source of inconvenience to private individuals who, in seeking the enforcement of rights conferred by statutory instruments, may be put to the trouble of producing proof of the gazetting of such instruments.

The Bill purports to deal with these defects by providing for the gazetting of statutory instruments in advance of printing. Pending the production of prints, neostyled copies of statutory instruments will be made available to the public. The Bill extends also the list of institutions to which copies of statutory instruments are required to be furnished by the addition of the King's Inns Library, Dublin, and the Southern Law Association, Cork.

Mr. Hawkins

The House welcomes this Bill because of the purpose it proposes to serve. The Minister has referred to the annoyance which has been caused to the Committee set up by this House. That is a matter to which I should like once more to draw the Minister's attention and the attention of those Ministers and Departments responsible for the issuing of Orders from time to time. The Minister is here taking a short cut to have Orders published and made available to various organisations. While that is very desirable, it is also desirable that these Orders should be made available to members of the House as early as possible, and also that the purpose of the particular Order should be clearly stated on its face. It has been the practice—I am glad to say there has been an improvement in this direction recently—to refer to these Orders by numbers, and one had great difficulty in finding out what really was the purpose of an Order.

We agree that it is necessary that the public should be made aware of the purpose of the Orders as early as possible and because of that we welcome the Bill. At the same time, I ask the Minister to bear in mind the few recommendations that I have made.

It is proposed to make these Orders available to a number of organisations, whose names are set out in the Bill— Chambers of Commerce and so on. I see that already an amendment has been put down asking that they should also be made available to the library of Trinity College. When considering that amendment, I would ask the Minister to consider also including the constituent colleges of Cork and Galway.

Mr. McGuire

As a member of the Committee on Statutory Instruments, I also should like to welcome this Bill I might add that I also welcome it as a citizen, because in the past a lot of these statutory instruments were in existence and the public and many people interested in them were not aware of their existence. I suppose that the Dáil and Seanad will get these Orders as early as the bodies mentioned in sub-section (a) of Section 1 of the Bill.

Mr. Burke

Like Senator Hawkins and Senator McGuire, I welcome this Bill. As a member of the Association of Chambers of Commerce, I notice that the association is not mentioned as one of the groups that will be given copies of statutory instruments. The association consists of the chambers of the four cities that are mentioned and, in addition, Sligo, Athlone, Longford, Wexford, Drogheda, Dundalk, Clonmel, Kilkenny—all the principal towns —and if these instruments were in the hands of Mr. McDwyer, in Commercial Buildings, Dublin, the secretary of the association, he could, when sending out his report, mention that these have been received and if any association required further information, he could have them duplicated and sent to them. I believe that this is a body, which, because of its comprehensive nature, ought to get copies of the Orders when they are printed.

Mr. Walsh

These statutory instruments are largely the result of emergency legislation and consequently it is desirable that the public should be made aware at the earliest possible date of the powers being conferred on Ministers and Departments, in consequence of statutory instruments which are issued. As a member of the Statutory Instruments Committee, I should be anxious that the Minister should include in the Bill, if it is not already provided for, that statutory instruments should be laid before the House in the time specified in Section 1 of the Bill. I also urge that the constituent colleges of the National University should be sent copies of the Bill, as soon as it is published. I presume that, under the Copyright Act, those colleges will be entitled to copies of the Bill, once they are printed. I should like the Minister to consider that before the next stage.

Mr. Sweetman

I am glad the members of the House agree the Bill is desirable. I think there is, perhaps, a little confusion in exactly understanding what is intended by this short amending Bill. It is purely one that deals with statutory instruments as such and does not in any way deal with Bills, as mentioned by Senator Walsh. The parent Act, under which the various instruments are made, provides in many cases that the instruments must lie on the table of the House for a certain number of days in some cases, and, in other cases, that they must lie there until there is a positive Order confirming them or they must lie there with power of annulment under the Parent Act. It is under the parent Act that the provision is made, which means that this House and the other House obtain the appropriate notice of the position.

In fact, of course, as Senators are aware, "tabled" means that the instrument in question is put in the Library and I think it is the practice that not merely those Orders which are bound under the parent Act to be tabled are put in the Library but also all other Orders of any importance at all.

There has been considerable discussion over the years of the advisability of trying to devise some pattern by which Orders could be described as in the manner suggested by Senator Hawkins. In certain cases where this is advisable, it could be done, but there is also, of course, the danger sometimes that, in the efforts to shorten the broad title for the convenience of the public, you might, in the synopsis, change the sense of what is involved. I think Senators may expect that whenever it is possible to deal with the problem in the manner Senator Hawkins suggests, it will be so dealt with by the Department concerned.

On the question which Senator Burke raised concerning the Association of Chambers of Commerce of Ireland, I understand that the Association of Chambers of Commerce operate from the rooms or the building of the Dublin Chamber of Commerce and the association will therefore get the instruments in question, when they are delivered to the Dublin Chamber. They will then have an opportunity of inspecting them there and of seeing what instruments they wish to get specific copies of to send around to the members of their association.

Mr. Burke

Will the Minister satisfy himself that that is so, because it is essential that they should have these instruments?

Question put and agreed to.

Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, November 30th.