Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Nov 1956

Vol. 46 No. 11

Imposition of Duties (Confirmation of Orders) (No. 3) Bill, 1956 ( Certified Money Bill )— Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. Norton)

The purpose of the Bill, as set out in the explanatory memorandum which I have circulated to Senators, is to confirm ten Orders made by the Government under the Emergency Imposition of Duties Act, 1932.

As indicated in the Schedule to this Bill the first five Orders are Revocation Orders. With the exception of the duty on catgut which is not now being made here the duties which were revoked had been suspended since the emergency and their retention was no longer necessary. The Order relating to manuscript books merely confirms the rate of duty imposed by an Order made under the Supplies and Services Act.

The increase in the duty on rosaries and the extension of the scope of the duty was necessary to protect the Irish manufacturers against imports of rosaries from the Far East at low prices which bore no comparison to normal costs of production.

The manufacture of firebacks and cheeks for domestic fireplaces commenced in Cappoquin in 1954 and the duty was imposed in order to afford a measure of protection for the industry.

The increase in the duty on saws and the extension of the scope of the duty was necessary to enable the Irish firm producing these articles to procure a sufficient share of the home market for economic production. Notwithstanding the existence of the duty, traders had continued to buy imported saws because of a deeprooted preference for saws produced by external firms who were long established on the Irish market. There were also imports of low priced saws from the Continent. Moreover, the duty was being evaded by imports of saw blanks which were, in effect, finished saws except for the cutting of the teeth. Comparative tests between the Irish made saws and imported saws were carried out by the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards and these tests revealed that the Irish saws were equal to the imported saws in all essential respects.

The production of furnishing fabrics of the tapestry type used in the upholstery of furniture and for curtains commenced recently at Drogheda and Nenagh and the duty was imposed to afford a measure of protection for this new industry. The import control on mattress ticken was being evaded by imports from the Continent of ticken which was designed specifically to evade the import regulations and this problem was also dealt with in the Order made to protect the manufacture of furnishing fabric.

Éamon Ó Ciosáin

Is dóigh liom go bhfuil gá leis an mBille seo chun na hOrdaithe atá déanta cheana féin le roint miósa anuas do chur i bheidhm i bhfoirm Achta. Ní hé seo an chéad Bhille den tsort seo a cuireadh ós ar gcóir chun Ordaithe a rinneadh san aimsir a bhí imithe do dhleachtú mar táimid dhá dhéanamh anso inniú.

We on this side of the House naturally support the policy of giving all the necessary encouragement that should be given to our native industries. That has been the policy adopted by this State for a number of years. That being so, I for one am in agreement that whatever duties are necessary on the articles mentioned here should be imposed. At the same time, I think it would be a good thing if, while introducing a measure of this kind, the Minister would give us an indication of the employment position regarding these industries that are being protected at a rather high rate of duty.

The Minister mentioned Cappoquin, where one of these industries is being carried on, but we got no indication of where the other industries are being carried on. Take, for instance, No. 7, the imposition of duties on rosaries. The increase here is a fairly steep one and, perhaps, it would not be out of place to inquire where these rosaries are being manufactured in this country or does that industry come under the aegis of Gaeltarra Éireann?

Mr. Norton

The two firms which make rosaries are located in Dublin. I should say one of the firms which had to close down because of the imports employed at the time it closed its factory 200 indoor workers and 20 outdoor workers.

With regard to the fireback industry in Cappoquin, before the duty was imposed, the firm there employed from five to six workers. Employment has now increased to seven full-time workers and seven part-time workers. This duty was only recently imposed and the firm expect that employment will be extended further. It has never been the custom to give this information, but if the Senator will be patient with me, I will go through——

Mr. Kissane

If the Minister does not think it advisable to give that information I will not press him, for fear that we might say something which would prejudice those firms.

Mr. Norton

In some cases I have not got the information, and, in others, I have.

Mr. Kissane

If the Minister has any doubt that this information which I am seeking would in any way prejudice the success of these industrial efforts, I will not press for the information. I am in support of the policy of giving whatever protection is necessary for keeping alive our native industries and I would say that perhaps there would be other cases where the Minister would be justified in having the position reconsidered in order to ensure that the workers would be kept in employment. That should be the aim of every good Irishman and Irishwoman.

Mr. Cogan

In regard to the revocation of duty on galvanised watering pots, storage bins and other such goods, I hope that the position is that we are able to manufacture those competitively and that the duty is not therefore any longer required.

Mr. Norton

In the case of galvanised wrought iron and steel, the only firm making this indicated that it did not desire the continuance of the duty any longer.

Mr. Walsh

Arising out of Senator Kissane's remarks, I should like to ask the Minister if he permits, pending the full production of the firms to which the Minister has referred, these firms to import, under licence, these articles on which duty is being imposed? I understand that in some cases before a factory is in a position to go into full production, the Department of Industry and Commerce give licences to that firm to import and if that state of affairs continues for too long a period, it may be possible that the consumer may be suffering. For instance, I understand in connection with the manufacture of yarns, that a considerable time elapsed before the firms were in a position to produce the various types of yarn and in the meantime these firms were allowed to import substantial quantities. That may be of assistance to them in order to produce economically, but there may be times when undue preference is given in cases such as that.

Mr. Norton

This Order, Senators will have noticed, does not deal with yarns as such, but they may take it that so far as the Department is concerned licences are not as a rule given to the manufacturer. A person cannot, except in very unusual circumstances, be given a permit to import a commodity he is himself manufacturing. The abuses which would flow from such a practice are obvious. Licences are given to the trade where we are satisfied that the home manufacturer is not producing. It is only when a case for granting a licence has been established by reference to what the home industry is producing that consideration is given to the question of issuing a licence to the customer who wants something other than that produced by the Irish firm.

The House will have noticed that five of these Orders are Revocation Orders. The Orders are being made only after consultation with the industries and firms concerned indicated that they no longer desire the continuance of the duties. I think I have given Senator Kissane all the information that I have available, except in the case of saws. In that instance, I have indicated the reasons for the firm desiring to have its protection increased, mainly to enable it to compete on the home market with outside firms which are well organised in this market, have considerable capital resources and have a long connection with the market. As a result of additional protection afforded it here, it is anticipated that the firm will give employment to an additional 20 workers and when they secure a greater portion of the market, it is quite possible that the cost of the Irish made saws will be reduced.

Question put and agreed to.

Agreed to take remaining stages today.

Bill considered in Committee.

SECTION 1.

Question proposed: "That Section 1 stand part of the Bill."

Mr. McGuire

I should like to ask the Minister if he is aware that there is a practice among certain manufacturers to refuse to admit in writing that they are unable to make certain articles required by traders for their customers. It may be something of importance which is required by customers and traders and the manufacturer, although he cannot make it, and groups of manufacturers, while admitting they cannot make it, will not give the necessary letter in writing admitting that they are unable to do so. I know that the retail trade is very anxious that that should be known.

Mr. Crowley

In cases where it is proved necessary to impose duties of this type, would it not be practicable to insist that the actual duty payable, as distinct from the retail price, should be made known to the public? It is the practice elsewhere and it should at least be tried in this country.

Mr. Norton

I think the Senator is under a misapprehension in that respect. Many of these firms which operate under the protection of a 50 per cent. duty in fact sell their goods at the same price as the British goods can be sold at here, and in some cases slightly more. The fact that there is a 50 per cent. duty is to keep the foreign articles out. In respect of all these goods on which tariffs are imposed from time to time the Department of Industry and Commerce takes care to check the price situation and to keep the profits in every tariffed industry under consideration. If there is any evidence that a firm is making money unduly, that it is engaged in excessive profit taking, the firm is told: "You are being protected on the Irish market and you will have to pull down your prices in return for that protection". The device which the Senator mentions would not work, therefore.

Mr. Crowley

I am glad to hear that, and I accept the Minister's assurance in that respect.

Mr. Norton

I had not brought to my personal notice any case of the kind to which Senator McGuire refers. If there is any case with regard to which he has details, I will be glad to have particulars of the matter and I will undertake to have it investigated. I recognise at once that if we grant protection to industries here to make commodities and our traders have to refer to them from time to time to ascertain whether they can supply a particular commodity, there is an obligation on the Irish manufacturer to co-operate with the customer, the trader here, and to clear the question as to whether that article or a suitable substitute can be made by the Irish-owned industry. If it cannot be made here and there is no suitable substitute, the Irish manufacturer ought to co-operate with the customer here in clearing the matter. If there is any case the Senator has in mind and he brings it to my notice, I will personally undertake to have it investigated.

Question put and agreed to.

Section 2 and Schedule agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.