I want your permission, Sir, to make a statement by way of personal explanation. At Column 1194, Volume 56, No. 17 of the Seanad Debates of 18th July, 1963, an accusation was made against me by Senator L'Estrange to the effect that I was fined £10 by the old IRA in Clare for refusing to take people out of the county home. That statement is utterly untrue and without foundation. In view of that, perhaps Senator L'Estrange would be good enough at this stage to withdraw it?
Personal Explanation by Senator.
Silence can be golden at times, and I shall remain silent this time.
I am chairman of the East Clare Memorial Committee which was founded to establish a garden of remembrance to the memory of the men and women of the East Clare Brigade who gave their lives in the cause of Irish freedom. We raised a sum of £4,000—£500 in America and £3,500 locally. My personal honour and reputation are at stake in this. If I or any member of my family had ever done anything wrong by the Irish people, would I have been chairman of that committee since its inception? I discharge the thrust placed in me and I have been asked to continue on.
The Senator's statement will be noted in the proceedings of the House.
Is there not a question of producing evidence in this matter?
I have heard the Senator's statement. If Senator L'Estrange does not wish to withdraw it——
Is it not customary when a Senator denies an allegation that his word is accepted?
If the matter is repeated, that will arise.
This is the third time it was alleged in the Seanad.
My brother was a member of the old IRA and served a long term of imprisonment in Limerick, Dundalk and Mountjoy jails.
I take it the Senator's word is accepted? Order of Business.
Will Senator L'Estrange not make a withdrawal?
I take it the Senator's statement is accepted.
Unless there is some evidence forthcoming to substantiate the original statement, it should be withdrawn.
I shall not allow any debate on this. We cannot have a debate on a personal statement. Should this accusation be made again, the Chair will deal with it.
In that case one may tell a deliberate lie and commit a deliberate slander and so long as one does it only once, nothing will happen.
I might point out that the Cathaoirleach has called for the Order of Business.
I understand that the Taoiseach proposes to bring in new methods of dealing with such matters as this in the Dáil. The Dáil only was mentioned but the Seanad must be brought into it, too.
That must be approached in another way.
It is a pity that was not done here in 1933 and 1934.
It is a pity it was not done before that, in 1922 and 1923.
When you were outside the House committing murder.
The ghosts are haunting you still.
There are no ghosts haunting me.