It is proposed to take business as on the Order Paper, Nos. 1 and 2, inclusive.
Order of Business.
Arising out of the Order of Business and from what was said earlier by Senator Quinlan, I submit that this urgent problem arises because of the inadequacy of capitation grants. With that in mind Senator W. Ryan and I put down Motion No. 28 on today's Order Paper:
That Seanad Éireann notes the impending collapse of Post Primary Education in Ireland owing to the total inadequacy of capitation and fee grants.
Would the Leader of the House take that as a priority for immediate debate? As I said, this situation arose because the system is in danger of collapse. Capitation grants have hardly increased over a period of eight years and are not being paid at the moment.
I strongly support Senator Lenihan's plea to have Motion No. 28 discussed. I suggest it be discussed tomorrow because of its urgency. It is very hard to watch the system being strangled through lack of finance.
I imagine every Member of this House who puts his name to a motion thinks it is in most urgent need of consideration. I, too, would like to ask the Leader of the House to facilitate a number of Senators from both sides in giving time for an early discussion of Motion No. 27 which reads:
That a Select Committee of the Seanad, consisting of nine members of whom three shall form a quorum, be appointed to examine the implications of varying the parity exchange rate between the Irish Pound and the Pound Sterling and report from time to time on such aspects of this matter as the Committee may select; and that the Committee have power to send for persons, papers and records.
This is not a political motion in the sense that I would hope it would have the full support of Members from both sides of the House. Already it is supported by many Senators from widely differing backgrounds and political views. Nothing could have more emphatically or dramatically underlined the necessity for taking this motion at an early stage than yesterday's British budget which was of a severity that underlined the present economic plight in the United Kingdom.
The motion on the Order Paper does not prejudge the issue. It asks that a Committee be set up to examine the issue. Therefore, it is not a case of trying to put forward one point of view over another. This is of sufficient urgency to merit immediate attention. There is one argument against the taking of this motion which I would like to dispose of: that a discussion of this type would rock the boat vis-á-vis Northern Ireland. That is a superficial view. If one looks at the situation one will realise that it is time we gave full consideration to and had a full and open discussion of our dependence on the United Kingdom and of seeking to break this dependence by violent means—the bomb and the bullet— means which I reject and deplore.
The Senator has now used quite a proportion of the 30 minutes he would be allowed if his motion had been taken.
I hope that when I start the clock will go back. I want to underline that this motion, by its very nature, needs to be discussed at once. If we are too late, if there is a large sterling devaluation and we have not examined the position and done something about our parity with sterling, then we will be in severe difficulties. Therefore, I would like the Leader of the House to do his utmost to arrange a debate on Motion No. 27 at the earliest possible opportunity.
I would like to add my urgings to those of Senator Lenihan on Motion No. 28. In doing so, I am not in any way decrying the importance of the motion referred to by Senator West, No. 27. Obviously, it is both an important and interesting topic, but, I think, of less immediate urgency than the problem of post-primary education. I would urge the Leader of the House to try and put this motion on tomorrow, and, while many of us are interested in the Wildlife Bill, I would suggest that as between discussing wildlife tomorrow and discussing post-primary education, Senators would prefer the latter.
Senators will appreciate that, in so far as it is the desire to have Ministers present for motions, it would not be reasonable to expect me to give any assurance without consulting the appropriate Minister or Parliamentary Secretary, as the case may be. Senator Lenihan's request, supported by Senator Yeats, does create some difficulty, in that Senator Lenihan has already given us an order of priority in respect of Fianna Fáil motions, and we have been endeavouring to honour what was not a precise commitment but an understanding that we would take them as suggested. We have succeeded in making definitive arrangements for the taking of the motion dealing with agriculture. There is a request now that that should be jettisoned in favour of Motion No. 28. We shall have to look at it and see if it is possible to take No. 28.
As regards Senator West's plea for Motion No. 27, if it is possible to arrange to have this taken early I shall be very glad to do it. The problem here is purely a physical one, that the Minister for Finance cannot be in two places at the one time. He is, of course, heavily engaged on financial matters. How soon it will be possible to arrange it, I do not know; but I shall have a look into it with a view to having it taken as early as possible.
As regards the list of motions we wanted to take, this Motion No. 28 was not listed at all, and even though we gave you a list of motions to be taken——
It is possible there would be some other motion tomorrow for which we would be asked to upset the arrangement again.
I think it would be preferable if any further discussion took place outside the House.