I should like to thank the Seanad for a very interesting and wide-ranging debate. Many viewpoints were expressed and all of them indicated support for the economic importance of racing and the bloodstock industry generally. Indeed, the one common attribute which characterised all the Senators who spoke was the fact that they welcomed the Bill because they recognised it was necessary to put more money into racing, and generally, to make the industry as a whole more economic. While a number of Senators —and Members of the Dáil—had reservations about the effect of an increase in the levy, the fact was that from all sides there were suggestions that the amount of money available for stakes was below that necessary to attract and maintain racing, bloodstock breeding and the whole industry in an economic state.
The main purpose of the Bill is to increase the levy. The terms of that section enables the Racing Board, should they consider it desirable, to increase the levy to a maximum not exceeding 10 per cent. But in each case the sanction of the Minister for Finance must be obtained. This procedure was laid down in the parent Act when the maximum levy was 5 per cent. The levy has remained fairly constant at 5 per cent since the establishment of the Racing Board. It is important to recall however, that, having originally been fixed at 5 per cent, it was subsequently reduced by the Racing Board, with the consent of the Minister for Finance, to 2½ per cent. It was only when it became obvious that revenue was inadequate to maintain the stakes at the level required and to provide the other amenities and facilities necessary that a decision was taken to increase it again. Again, the consent of the Minister for Finance had to be obtained.
Now, with the passage of time, and the increasing demand for higher stakes in racing, and demands from patrons for better amenities and facilities, it is obvious that the time has come to amend the Act. The suggested amendment is that a 10 per cent ceiling be applied. As I mentioned, the Racing Board intend when the Bill is law, and subject to the consent of the Minister for Finance, to increase it by only 1 per cent.
The dilemma has been obvious here. Most Senators who spoke suggested more money for racing but many had reservations about increasing the levy beyond 1 per cent of what it is at present, in other words, beyond 6 per cent. However, there is a safeguard here which was not in the 1945 Act, that is, any orders made by the Racing Board, to which the Minister's consent naturally had to be given, must now be laid before both Houses. In either House a motion can be put down within 21 days, if a Deputy or a Senator considers it necessary.
One of the questions which arises when legislation such as this is being considered—the last speaker, Senator Boland, adverted to it—is that this is a vast industry. As Senators rightly said, it provides employment throughout the country, it is not confined to any county or any part of a county. Of course, some counties are predominantly more suited soilwise, from the point of view of size of farms, the traditions in the area and a whole variety of other factors. It is correct to say that, by and large, the whole country, in one way or another, is interested in horse breeding —if not necessarily in racehorses, in horse breeding, generally—but some areas have peculiar attributes that make them especially suitable for breeding good-class horses.
Despite massive investment in the industry, despite the fact that there is available in it employment—in the main, male employment—that is dispersed throughout the country, it is remarkable how little discussion takes place on it. In my experience, except on a few occasions perhaps on the Estimates for the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries and one or two isolated instances like that, there have been only two pieces of legislation, other than dealing directly with horses, which have been before both Houses and have been the subject of debate. The total expenditure I mentioned covers the Racing Board, with which we are mainly concerned here—I mentioned the amount for the National Stud—and Bord na gCapall. The industry provides immense employment and, in addition, it has considerable external investment. I listened, with considerable care, to what Senator Quinlan said but the facts refute the criticism he made.
Racing is now an international business or industry, more so than ever before. There is ease of travel, ease of movement of horses. In the past the animals had to go by boat and train to attend major meetings. Now they can be moved rapidly within a country by motorised transport and from country to country by air with extraordinary rapidity. That has made for a new situation. In the 1920s and 1930s—then the war intervened—there were very few foreign owners here but there was one remarkable owner who made a massive investment, the late Aga Khan. He achieved remarkable success but he put a great deal of money into it and had a number of stud farms here. When war broke out he had standing here and in Britain a number of Derby winners, but at one stroke he decided to sell three or four of them to the United States. This caused a great deal of comment. The best blood lines were being exported and the loss was serious for Irish and English breeders.
However, racing improved after the war years and he bred a number of other good horses and subsequently sold one of them to the late Mr. Joseph McGrath who afterwards resold him to the United States. The descendants of these horses have crossed and recrossed the Atlantic with benefit. I agree with Senators who said that very often in the British Press, when successes are achieved by Irish horses, adequate attention is not paid to that success. Often in the British Press, France or the United States are given credit for breeding the successful horses, but if we have a success, occasionally, if it is possible to camouflage it, they seem to forget to mention that Irish horses are involved. There are notable occasions when the facts cannot be obscured. At this year's Cheltenham races many of the winners were bred here and it was impossible to obscure the fact that they were bred here, trained here and ridden by Irish jockeys.
The point I was making is that it is to the benefit of the industry to have this movement of horses from country to country because it avoids inbreeding and enables them to get the advantage of different blood lines. Last year when in Paris for an EEC meeting I went to Longchamp where the French St. Leger was on. It was won by an American-owned horse that was trained in France but the sire stood in Ireland. Of course, everyone who read of the success immediately had their attention directed to the fact that the sire of this winner was standing here. He was an American-bred horse but he happened to be here. That is good publicity for Irish breeding and Irish bloodstock.
It is impossible nowadays to specifically isolate one country or another, but undoubtedly, the most successful racing industry in Europe at the moment is in France. That brings me to a point raised by Senators, that it should be possible to channel some of the money from the SP betting or, otherwise, into racing. There is a big difference between the system operated in France and that operating here and in Britain. In France the betting is solely on the totalisator. That means no bookmakers and it means that all the money goes into one pool and is then distributed. Last year about £84 million was available as a result of the totalisator and, naturally, the stakes were bigger and the breeders' incentives greater.
This, however, would raise a big question here but I do not think we should be averse at some time to considering it. It would certainly mean a complete change with the system that operates here which includes bookmakers. Most people who go racing, and those who have spoken in the Seanad or in the Dáil, recognise that bookmakers are part of the racing scene and, indeed, part of the attraction. In the past a lot of bookmakers were colourful characters. There may be fewer colourful characters nowadays but they are part of the scene and there is an atmosphere about bookmakers and about betting with the books. As Senator Russell remarked, people like to see the bookmaker. When they bet through the tote it is an artificial business. One is more at home talking to a bookmaker, even if one cannot get better odds from him. At least one can have a friendly word with him.
On the other hand, in this country and in Britain a good deal of the money that might otherwise be channelled back into racing undoubtedly goes in SP bets. Indeed none of that, except to the extent of the State grant, goes back into racing. In addition a certain amount of betting is undoubtedly on football pools in Britain. In France, as I understand it, they have no football pools and, consequently, all the money wagered goes through one channel, is controlled in one way and used to the undoubted benefit of French racing.
One of the factors involved in the present unfortunate situation in Britain in the dispute between the racehorse trainers and the stable lads is the fact that racing there is no longer economic. There have been many comments by those involved in it, trainers, owners and commentators who follow racing closely in the Press, on radio and television, that the stakes available are inadequate to attract and maintain racing at the standard it should be.
It is precisely because of the situation that has developed there and the anxiety of the Racing Board, the Government and those who are informed on the situation, that this Bill is being introduced to increase the amount of money going into racing. While everybody speaks in favour of providing additional money the question is how to raise it. Some people suggest that it could be got from diverting some of the SP resources into racing. This is like any other tax. No matter what tax is raised, the practice and the recognised procedure here is that taxes go into the Central Exchequer. They are then distributed in whatever way the Government or the Minister responsible decides.
To depart from that would mean that taxes would be earmarked for a particular purpose and raised for that. While it is always attractive to propose it, it is not so easy to work it. If it applies in one case why would it not apply in another? Obviously, there must be limitations on it. If there is to be a change here we will have to consider the question of a system somewhat similar to the French system and I doubt if there would be public support for it.
There have been remarkable changes so far as the amenities are concerned.
When transport was difficult some years ago, when the expenses involved were less, people were satisfied with less. A great case has been made over the years for the smaller tracks and the Racing Board are giving this lengthy and careful consideration. Some years ago the board had decided on a grading system but as a result of an increase in the number of runners, the operation of that proposed system has been abandoned. The problem remains that it is almost impossible where there are underutilised racecourses to provide the same facilities as people expect. In addition to providing the facilities, if there are only two or three days' racing in a year, it is necessary to maintain and keep the track in proper order. Senator Keegan spoke about the problems of his local meeting which originally was confined to one day a year but has now three days. There was a good meeting there recently but Senator Keegan will recall that some years ago there was at least one tragic accident on the course. Naturally, an accident can happen on any course but if the track is not properly maintained, if the necessary capital work, reseeding and resurfacing, are not undertaken the risks are greater.
Many Senators mentioned that some provincial tracks had closed. In fact, since the war very few tracks closed. There is the case, which Senator Killilea is aware of, of Tuam but the day Tuam lost has been given to Galway. The closure there was not due solely to the exigencies of the racing scene but to other factors. Mullingar has closed and, indeed, one metropolitan track, Baldoyle, also closed. Most of the tracks that succeeded in surviving the war have continued in existence and, in a number of cases, some that closed when racing was regionalised during the shortage of petrol have reopened and have done rather well.
On the other hand it is obvious that with a certain amount of money available for racing, with a certain amount available from the tote levy and the levy on bookmakers, the resources should be used to the best advantage. The best advantage means putting it in the tracks that give the greatest return. Strangely enough, as I mentioned in the Dáil, one of the anomalies of this situation is that in Kerry where there are three very successful tracks it is possible that not one racehorse is trained in the county. On the other hand some counties that breed, train and produce a lot of horses have very few tracks. In the case of Cork there is only one track but we cannot suddenly change the face of the map and decide that radical changes should be made. The facts are that some of the festival or holiday meetings produce the greatest revenue and attract the greatest crowds. As far as the Racing Board are concerned, they contribute a great deal of the revenue available for development and progress.
A number of Senators referred to the incentives for breeders. Again, unfortunately, the incentives here are nothing like as good as they are in France. The bigger races here have certain prizes for breeders—the Sweeps Derby, the Guiness Oaks, the 3,000 Guineas, the St. Leger and the 1,000 Guineas. In addition the stallion incentive scheme is a relatively new scheme and one that is providing some encouragement. Certain breeders' prizes are paid to breeders of all Irish winners and winners of selected British races if the sire of the winner is registered with the stallion incentive scheme which was organised by the Bloodstock Breeders' Association and guaranteed by the Racing Board. The amount paid to breeders by this stallion incentive scheme in 1974 was £76,000.
A number of Senators raised questions about Bord na gCapall, their breeding policy, and the Army jumping team. Let me first deal with the points raised by Senator Killilea. I shall certainly arrange to have discussed with Bord na gCapall the difficulty of getting suitable stallions in the counties he mentioned, Galway, Mayo and Clare. The arrangements now in respect of these schemes, which formerly were undertaken by the Department of Agriculture, have been transferred to Bord na gCapall. I had not heard any complaints about shortage of stallions in these areas and, certainly, I shall ensure that the matter is taken up with the board.
In so far as the question of the Ballinasloe fair is concerned, here again is a matter that Bord na gCapall should discuss with local interests. I certainly agree that there have been in the past a number of important fairs. Senator Mary Walsh referred to Tinahely and many other Senators, including Senator Killilea, to the Ballinasloe fair. Even still there are some substantial fairs for the sale of young horses, potential hunters and show jumpers, and even trained hunters and show jumpers. Ballinasloe, I suppose, is the biggest one there was; there is also Tinahely, Tallow in Waterford and Cahermee in Cork and there are others, like Kilrush and Spancel Hill. Nowadays, there are some successful Bord na gCapall sales and, indeed, some sales conducted by marts. In the Blessington mart there have been quite successful sales of horses, hunters and show jumpers. In the main, it is a new development and, obviously, it is one that should be introduced with some caution, with some regard to the traditional practices of the areas mentioned.
I should like to deal with the point mentioned by Senator Harte. It is very hard to get a representative of the punters. I suppose every one who goes racing in some way or other, if he bets, is a punter. But there is no way of getting an authorised representative certainly for such a vast and heterogeneous body. It is a matter to which the Racing Board must give some consideration. Some of the members appointed to the board, are regarded as representing the punter in the sense that they are racegoers, and part of the function of the board is to provide improved amenities and facilities such as catering facilities, stand accommodation and so on. There is the other question of giving consideration to the interests of those employed in the industry. It is vital that those involved in racing should take into account the problems involved, the long hours and the fact, as a Senator said, that like dairying it is a seven days a week job. Arrangements, I know, in most cases exist for time off in lieu of the extra days, so that those who are involved in it get reasonable free time and reasonable rest periods.
In regard to the Army jumping team, considerably increased money was made available for the purchase of horses, and many horses were purchased by the equitation school last year, in fact, during the Horse of the Year Show and, indeed, in at least one case a horse was purchased at one of the Bord na gCapall sales. In addition, some horses were leased from Bord na gCapall to the Army equitation team. So far as the past glories of the team are concerned, which brought tremendous prestige to the country and to which many look back with such happy recollections, the modern international jumping scene is very different to what it was in the 1920s or 1930s. At that time almost all European countries had army teams. Nowadays, no single country has an army team. In fact, probably in only one or two cases do army members compete on the teams. The Italians still have one or two people on their team. There are occasionally one or two elsewhere, but apart from these exceptional cases, most teams are nowadays, civilian teams.
Therefore, in making comparisons with the success of the army teams in the past, we are not quite comparing like with like. That does not mean to say that one would not like to do extremely well. It is fair to say that allowing for the changed circumstances they have done extremely well. We have some top-class riders. The difficulty, of course, is to get the rider and the horses and to have both at the same time. With reference to what Senator Russell said, they are buying both trained and unbroken horses. In the past, the practice was to buy entirely unbroken horses. In recent times they varied it in order to try to ensure that they would have available some horses for competition at the moment and some coming along in the course of training.
Senator Kilbride raised the question of making racing more attractive so that some successful Irish jockeys and riders would not have to go abroad. Here again, it is the economics of the situation. There is no system that I know of that can provide sufficient attraction to retain riders here if they want to go abroad. Undoubtedly, many of the successful jockeys who leave this country and go, mainly to Britain, do so because the opportunities are more numerous and the prospects are greater. It is not that nobody will accept them here, but obviously they can get more rides elsewhere.
We must look at the changed circumstances. Except for the Irish Derby or one or two of the classics, 40 or 50 years ago foreign jockeys never came to this country to ride unless they were permanently based here. Nowadays some of the leading jockeys, certainly one of them, can race in Ireland on a Saturday, in France on a Sunday and the rest of the week in Britain. That is a new situation. They can fly from one place to another. At the same time, it is important that we should make it as attractive as possible and here the question not only of sponsorship of racing but also sponsorship of show jumping is involved. There has been a big increase in that in the post-war years but, again, it is a question of finance and some of the firms that invested a good deal in this have, in recent times, because of demands elsewhere, not extended their sponsorship and, in some cases, probably reduced it.
The National Stud, as Senators are aware, has had very considerable success. The stud, after it was taken over from the British in the early forties, was set up under statue and quite a few of the sires that were purchased by the stud did extraordinarily well. The first lot of sires, horses like "Royal Charger" and "Preciptu" achieved international fame and one of them which was eventually sold to an American did extraordinarily well in America. Some of his progeny came back again to Europe and there has been an intermingling of blood lines ever since. In recent years a very considerable capital expansion programme has gone on at the stud. They have some expensive sires but they also have a number that are available at low fees. This is important because the stud is designed to facilitate the smaller breeders. The only way in which they can be made available is to ballot for nominations. It is not possible to meet all the applicants who wish to avail of the services. The procedure in the National Stud has been that mare owners who wish to avail of the services put their names in and they are balloted on. That applies whether the fee is the higher or lower one. The fact is that quite a number stallions are available at relatively low fees.
A number of Senators, including Senator Walsh, referred to the need to facilitate apprentices, particularly farrier apprentices, and also apprentice jockeys. Bord na gCapall have a farrier apprentice scheme. In the last few years there is a jockey apprentice scheme based on the Curragh which is run by those involved in racing. There are facilities at the National Stud and lectures are given and facilities provided by the Kildare Vocational Education Committee. In this case also the scheme is working well. Only time will tell whether it will produce jockeys, but, as Senator Boland remarked, it is important that, if for a variety of reasons, either weight or unsuitablility, these people eventually fail to reach the standard required, for riding as jockeys they would have a basic education that would enable them to apply themselves in other areas.
I think I have covered most of the points that were made. If I have overlooked any of them I will endeavour to get replies to any queries that individual Senators may have raised. Again, I would like to thank the Seanad for their generous welcome to the Bill and to express the hope that, as a result of increasing the levy and providing more finance for racing, the industry will continue to prosper and expand.
