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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 1 Jul 1975

Vol. 81 No. 15

Appropriation Bill 1975 (Certified Money Bill): Second Stage

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The purpose of the Appropriation Bill is to appropriate formally the amounts voted by the Dáil for the supply services. This year's Bill follows the general pattern of previous Appropriation Acts.

Section 2, which is the principal section, appropriates to the specific services set out in the Schedule to the Bill the sum of £1,093,673,020 comprising £10 to cover an excess on the grant for Garda Síochána for the year 1972-73; £10 in respect of a Supplementary Estimate for the period from 1st April, 1974 to 31st December, 1974, which was not included in last year's Appropriation Act; and £1,093,673,000 in respect of the Estimates for 1975, including one Supplementary Estimate—Health £414,000. The section also authorises the use of certain departmental receipts, amounting in total to £99,725,328, as appropriations-in-aid. These are detailed in the Schedule to the Bill.

Section 1 of the Bill authorises the grant out of the Central Fund of the sum of £10 to make good the excess on the grant for Garda Síochána already referred to. Authority to issue out of the Central Fund in respect of the balance of the items to be appropriated is contained in the Central Fund (Permanent Provisions) Act, 1965.

While it is not usual for the Minister for Finance to make a lengthy opening speech on this debate. I think it would be somewhat unreal if I were to let the occasion pass without making some reference to the present economic situation and to the new measures which I recently announced in the Dáil.

The main objective of these measures is to arrest spiralling price increases which are at present about twice the European average. Unless the rate of inflation is curbed and indeed substantially reduced, hopes for economic revival and increased employment for our people will fade. This cannot be allowed to happen.

The budget which I presented in January last had as its primary aims the maintenance of employment and the preservation of living standards. To this end the Government took a calculated risk in opting for an overall budgetary stance which I described as carefully expansionary. In normal circumstances the existence of a balance of payments deficit amounting to one-tenth of gross national product and a 20 per cent rate of inflation would have called for drastic action to cut domestic demand. This would inevitably have had a serious impact on employment. The Government rejected this approach which would have inflicted unnecessary hardship on the community. The alternative was to maintain economic activity at the highest sustainable level by borrowing to meet the budgetary deficit while asking all sections of the community to be responsible, indeed unselfish, in sharing the load.

As I have said, this strategy was not without risk. The world recession could turn out to be deeper and more prolonged than we expected, inflation could worsen so that price-related income increases might be intolerably large, unemployment could worsen, the balance of payments gap could widen and the limitation imposed by the size of the unprecedently high budget deficit and the resultant public sector borrowing requirement could limit the scope for manoeuvre. The Government in drafting their January budget had to make certain assumptions about future developments in the world economy at a time of extraordinary global instability, recession and anxiety. In the event, some of the most crucial of these assumptions, for reasons far beyond the control of any small country such as ours, proved to be unfulfilled. To a greater or lesser extent most of the factors which I have just outlined have contributed to the deterioration in the economic climate since the beginning of the year.

Not only did the world recession continue into the first half of 1975 but the downswing was even more pronounced than in the second half of last year. The improvement predicted earlier this year by most economists for the middle of the year or the autumn, now shows little sign of materialising before the end of 1975 at the earliest. Some commentators even suggest that it may not appear until late next year.

Our exports, particularly of the industrial variety, in the first half of 1975 have reflected both the depressed level of external demand and the impact of domestic inflation on our competitive position. Employment has inevitably suffered. On the domestic front we have experienced sluggish demand and a depressed state of business confidence. These have also had their impact on the employment position with the result that the unemployment picture has regretably steadily worsened.

The deepening recession has been accompanied in many countries—but not, unfortunately, in Ireland—by quite remarkable success in curbing inflation. The latest figures from OECD show that in Denmark, like ourselves a small and open economy, the annual rate of price increase in the three months to April of this year was less than 6 per cent as compared with a rise of over 15 per cent in 1974. Japan has been equally successful, its inflation rate having fallen from almost 25 per cent last year to 15 per cent now, while Italy has brought a 19 per cent rise to a little over 12 per cent.

In Ireland, on the other hand, despite the sluggishness of our economy and the increasing number of our unemployed, the rise in prices continues unabated. Indeed the latest figure— those for mid-May—show that our position is still deteriorating, with consumer prices having risen by 24½ per cent in the previous 12 months. It is against that sombre background that we have to examine current policies.

I made it clear, in speaking in the Dáil on Thursday last, that the present national pay agreement, institutionalising, as it does, the link between incomes and consumer prices, gave increases which were beyond the economy's capacity to pay in the present economic difficulties. Income increases on this scale would invariably, and in a comparatively short period of time, have disastrous consequences for our competitive position vis-à-vis our trading partners. The products of our industries would soon be priced out of markets both home and foreign and employment would suffer the inevitable consequences.

Faced with stagnant, or declining, external markets, export prospects are not encouraging. In this situation, one which is likely to persist for most of the coming year, we must depend on our own resources. Our future prosperity and growth depend primarily on our ability to export and this in turn depends on our international competitiveness, never more so than at this present time. If the unemployment problem is to be solved, then we must first solve the problem of inflation.

The traditional conflict between inflation and employment has no validity in our present circumstances. Quite apart from its direct effects on employment through loss of competitiveness, its longer-term consequences are even more serious. It adversely affects business confidence, discouraging investment and thereby lessening job prospects. Even more serious, unless inflation here is curbed, it could deter foreign industrialists, who have hitherto been a dynamic element in our drive towards full employment, from investing in this country. It should by now be evident to all that inflation is unquestionably the greatest enemy.

The budget which I presented to the Dáil on Thursday last had the twin goals of curbing inflation and unemployment. Inflation must be curbed if lasting success on the employment front is to be achieved. In a major attempt to wind down the inflationary spiral the Government decided to introduce subsidies which will reduce CIE fares and the price of bread, flour, butter, milk and town gas, and in addition to eliminate VAT on electricity, all fuels except road fuels, and clothing and footwear. It is expected that these measures will reduce the consumer price index by 4 per cent. Allowing for the extra yield to the Exchequer from the temporary surcharge on income tax payable by individuals at the rate of 35 per cent and upwards, the estimated net cost of the package to the Exchequer in the current year is £20 million.

Direct measures to improve the employment situation are also being taken. The new premium employment programme which has been widely welcomed should encourage the immediate re-employment on a full-time basis in the manufacturing sector of workers who have lost their jobs as a result of the current recession. Additional capital expenditure of £27 million, consisting of: housing, £10.5 million; telephones, £8 million; industry, £5.2 million; and agriculture £3.4 million, should also stimulate immediate employment prospects. In addition to the extra £10.5 million for housing, to which I have referred, the major associated banks are prepared to make available an extra £40 million over two years for house purchase. Building societies are experiencing a healthy inflow of funds this year and expect to advance £55 million, an increase of £15 million over last year, on housing loans in 1975.

In return for the measures taken to reduce the consumer price index and to increase employment, the Government expect a matching response from the parties to the national pay agreement in the form of a scaling-down in the agreement's provisions, towards the easing of inflation resulting in an improvement in employment. If an appropriate response on this front is not forthcoming, then it will frankly be impossible for the Exchequer to finance all of the additional costs involved without exacerbating the inflationary situation which the Government are striving in all our interests to control and to defeat.

Largely as a result of inflation, the Government have had to approve since the January budget additional current expenditure for necessary services by Departments totalling £76 million. Clearly this trend is not sustainable and it is essential to tighten control of public expenditure, both current and capital, so as to avoid any further increases during the remainder of the year. Indeed the Government have already refused to sanction applications for further substantial increases in public expenditure and all Departments and State bodies have been warned that they must live within their budgetary allocations.

The exceptional inflationary conditions of the past two years have given an added impetus to the rise in public expenditure, especially current expenditure—which has, in turn, added to taxation pressures and the borrowing requirement. In order to conserve scarce resources for productive purposes, the Government intend to adopt a policy of moderation in regard to non-capital expenditure generally. Improvements or extensions of existing services no matter how desirable or the introduction of new services no matter how attractive will have to be shelved until present economic difficulties have been overcome and resources once more become available to meet additional costs. These blunt realities will have to be honestly faced and the consequences bravely accepted.

The Government alone cannot bring inflation to heel and, at the same time, ensure that jobs are provided at an acceptable level. Success cannot be achieved without the co-operation of everyone in the community. In particular, and in the immediate future, it is absolutely essential that, in return for a slowing down of price increases as a result of the Government's package, there should be a corresponding slowing down of income increases under the terms of the national pay agreement. There are grounds for believing that this positive response will be forthcoming and the Government will actively pursue this course.

It is being unreasonably suggested in some quarters that something is amiss when the Government seek to rule by consensus instead of by statutory measures. Such criticism overlooks the superiority of reasonable agreement over confrontation. Those countries with most success in the battle against inflation, like Germany for instance, rely upon the wisdom of the social partners and not upon Government diktat to get communal wisdom. The task of bringing this country around to a similar sensible way of thinking and acting is a difficult one, but it is nevertheless worth trying to achieve, not alone in our present predicament but in the longer term interests of the country.

Some questions must be asked and honestly answered. Senators might care to consider some of them in the course of this debate:

1. When the worst world economic recession for a half century causes a cessation of our growth rate, possibly a decline, should we expect any improvement in our living standards while the recession lasts?

2. If there is an actual decline in our production should we accept a fall in our living standards?

3. If the world decline and rampant inflation causes one-tenth of our labour force to be out of work, ought those at work to accept temporarily less than full compensation for inflation as a contribution towards getting people back to work by increasing competitiveness?

4. If recession and inflation are reducing resources in volume and value, can "special increases" in incomes and working conditions be enjoyed by some without doing harm to others?

I have been asked to make some reference to the question of the link between the Irish £ and the pound sterling. I would remind Senators that I referred to this matter when speaking in the Dáil last Thursday, when I was introducing the supplementary budget. We have publicly recognised in Government that a pound for pound link with the British pound and our involvement in the British economy with a very high inflation rate inevitably means that we import some of that high inflation rate. As long as we have up to 50 per cent of our trade, both exports and imports, involved in the British economy we will inevitably absorb a considerable amount of whatever illness may afflict the British economy, just as we could enjoy any good fortunes which that economy might experience.

The Irish £ is a very small currency in a huge international monetary ocean. Even if we were to sever the link which we have with the pound sterling we would, in present circumstances, in our own interests, have to consider linking with some other currency or basket of currencies. If we were to link with some other currency at the present time the various economic disciplines to which I have already referred would become even more urgent to observe. It would be illusory to think that by severing our link with sterling and linking the Irish pound to another currency or currencies we would, in the short term, be making any significant contribution to easing our economic problems. The most important economic duty ahead of us all, individually and collectively, is to reduce our own expectations which are fuelling the fires of our own inflation. Eighty per cent of this year's inflation is attributable to our own decisions and to our own actions.

Hear, hear.

That being so, we will have to get our own house in order. Getting our own house in order will have to be a precondition to changing our exchange rate. It would be wrong to think that if we altered our exchange rate everything else would follow easily. We in this Government have expressed a more open mind towards the relationship between the Irish £ and the pound sterling than any previous Government have dared to do. It is because we consider that circumstances could arise in which it would be in the interests of this country to consider a different exchange rate arrangement than the one we have at present. But if that should ever occur it is very important that the decision to change the arrangement should be accepted as being the consequence of a sound assessment of the situation and should also be seen as a prudent step to improve and to maintain the improvement in a healthy economy.

The pound sterling is certainly going through traumatic changes at the present time. One consequence of that is to increase the cost of our imports from non-sterling countries, and to that extent it is fuelling our own inflation. Having regard to the fact that our imports this year have been falling and that while the recession continues they are not likely to grow again, the dangers of fuelling our own inflation by reason of increased prices from non-sterling areas are not as significant as they might have been last year or in other years when we had a considerable growth in our imports.

One of the factors of the sterling link which is often overlooked is that, because we have so much trade with Britain, when account is taken of the weight of our trade with Britain the real depreciation of the Irish £ is only about one-third of the depreciation of sterling. So, while sterling has depreciated—I am not certain what today's figure may be, but it was almost 29 per cent last night—by about 30 per cent in a period of four years, the Irish £ has depreciated, after trade weighting, by about 10 per cent.

Like many other economic facts of life—there are always two sides to the sterling link—one consequence of the depreciation of the pound sterling and of our own currency as well is to compensate to some extent for our own high costs. It has made it possible for us to maintain some degree of competitiveness in foreign markets because of the depreciation of our currency. Revaluation of the Irish £ would make our exports less competitive.

I look forward with great interest to what the House may have to say on this particular problem and indeed on the other questions which I have posed and which Senators may have posed themselves in the course of this debate. As I have emphasised, the Government's desire is to achieve economic wisdom in this country by consultation and by getting a general understanding of the problem. We are a comparatively small community; we are a socially united community. We have been foolish to import some of the class divisions that have existed in other countries, but they do not run deep here and we should not allow them to run deep. If we have a thorough understanding of our problems we are confident that the collective and individual wisdom of our people will lead us as a community to make the right decisions. I look forward to a useful and constructive debate and I commend the Appropriation Bill to the House for a Second Reading.

Talking about breaking the link with sterling is like advising a drowning man to clutch a straw in the present economic and financial situation. I agree with the Minister to the extent that this issue is not really relevant to the present situation in which we find ourselves. One could talk about this matter at a stage when the economy was expanding, when our currency was self-sufficient. We could then think in terms of linking our currency with some other currency. At the present time on our inflation record we just cannot think in terms of breaking the link with sterling. It is a matter for mature consideration at another stage.

I agree with the Minister that as long as we have a situation where 80 per cent of our inflation is generated here from domestic circumstances, in that context we must put our own house in order. That is the central issue at stake at the moment. All of these other issues are peripheral. We have had enough peripheral issues being debated in both Houses of the Oireachtas in recent months. We have had breaking the link with sterling elevated to the centre of the stage. We have had the Broadcasting Bill elevated to the centre of the stage. We have had the Criminal Law (Jurisdiction) Bill elevated to the centre of the stage. These issues are irrelevant to our central economic problem which is a rate of inflation which is running at what used to be called a South American rate—a rate of inflation that is in the banana republic league.

A few years ago a 25 per cent inflation rate in Ireland would have been unthinkable. I will just quote the figures in the last two decades. Right through the 1960s we had an annual inflation rate in the region of 3 per cent. In 1970 the inflation rate was 8 per cent. In 1971 it was 9 per cent. In 1972, it fell back from 9 per cent to 8 per cent, which was the figure pertaining when this Government assumed office in March, 1972. In 1973, it was 11 per cent; in 1974, 17 per cent; 1975, 25 per cent. That is the inflation record of the present Government. On the Minister's admission, the inflation rate is 80 per cent due to domestic circumstances. The domestic circumstances of this country are within the ambit and control of the lawfully elected Government and their agent in the financial field, the Minister for Finance. These may be unpalatable facts, but they are facts. On numerous occasions in this House and in the Dáil the Minister was told of the impending nature of this problem which flowed directly from the first Government budget of 1972. The present situation, exacerbated by the oil crises, flows directly from the 1972 budget, because in it——

The Senator has his dates mixed up.

Excuse me, in 1973. In 1973 the Government introduced a budget which was designed to spread about the greatest amount of money possible among various categories of people. It was a planned deficit budget utilising EEC funds on the basis that this enabled the Government to buy popularity in that particular year, and it put the Government straight away into an imbalanced budgetary position. After that budget of 1973, two more followed through 1973, 1974 and 1975 and we had the fourth official budget introduced by the Minister in the Dáil last week.

In all the budget debates we emphasised to the Minister for Finance that he was embarking on a slippery slope that would undoubtedly lead to inflation. We made that point consistently. I do not intend to go through the litany of quotes where I made it clear in this House on various Appropriation Bills and on other financial debates. It was debated on numerous occasions by the former Minister for Finance in the Dáil.

The first budget of 1973 decided that we could, as a nation, immediately spread ourselves in regard to spending funds which we had received by reason of our membership of the European Economic Community. These funds were dissipated on current expenditure, first of all on a massive unbalanced budget programme that has led to the situation where the Minister now looks at a £241 million budget deficit for the coming year. There has been a gradual deterioration in the state of our public finances starting in April, 1973, and now two years and three months later it has been a short rake's progress where the Minister sees that the current budget deficit will be of the order of £200 million.

In the last financial debate we had in this House I was challenged by Senator Halligan for linking current budget deficit with capital budget figures on the basis that there was a very real difference between current and capital. There is no difference as far as financing is concerned between capital budget and a current budget deficit. The document published last week by the Minister for Finance in conjunction with the budget proposals in the Dáil—Summary of Revised Capital Budget including Current Budget Deficit for 1975—includes the current budget deficit of £241.6 million with the other capital requirements of the Government, state bodies and local authorities. The budget deficit must be met out of loan financing. In so far as the Government run a budget deficit, they are thereby depriving the public capital programme of sufficient funds to enable unemployment to be tackled in a drastic manner.

The capital budget estimate in January of this year was £649 million, but it has been upped, like everything else at the present time, from £649 million to £824.1 million, which is the Minister's own figure. In that £824 million are £241 million being used by way of loan capital extracted by the Government from the associated banks, from public sources, from abroad, hopefully to finance the Government in their rake's progress in regard to budgetary expenses. That is the most crucial figure in the Minister's budget. He quite openly includes in his capital budget of £824 million, £241 million to finance the current budget. To that extent the capital budget, which is the area where employment can be given, is being deprived of £241 million in order to help the Government sustain a deficit that is unwarranted.

They are the facts. It cannot be denied that we have drifted into this situation. The question is rightly posed in the statement by the Minister in the Dáil last week as to where this money will come from, what source? I refer to page 27 of his statement when he talked about total capital requirements coming to £824 million compared to £649 million in January. He sets out the various sources from which he hopes to get some of these finances in the table which accompanied his statement. Ultimately it comes down to this, that of the total capital requirements of £824 million, £241 million of which will be got by way of loan to finance the current deficit, the Minister so far, from known resources, has failed by £276 million to achieve the required finance. To quote the Minister's own document, on the assumption that the amounts from the various sources and resources set out in the capital bill will be forthcoming, there will be a balance of £276 million to be raised to finance Exchequer requirements this year. In addition to the deficit of £241 million that has to be met by way of loan finance there is an additional appropriation of £35 million for the public capital programme for which no sources or resources are stated as yet.

The Government and the Minister for Finance, before the end of this year, out of somewhere—somewhere which is not stated in the list of sources and resources published last week—must get £276 million. It is quite clear that this will have to come from external borrowing. The Minister in his statement to the Dáil, stressed the danger of relying too much on such borrowing. The Central Bank in their last annual report raised very serious questions about the whole justification for external borrowing. I should like to know if the Minister has discussed with the Central Bank from where this £276 million is to be obtained. Will it be obtained from a lending agency, in view of the shortfall both on budget account and on external account which we are witnessing? Will it come from lending agencies in Arabia, the Persian Gulf or anywhere else in the world on the basis of the downfall in cash return to the revenue which now emerges from the Exchequer returns published only last night? The shortage of cash, which is a direct reflection of the inflationary situation in which we find ourselves— people are now in the situation where they have to conserve money rather than spend it—means that VAT returns are down. People find themselves on a three-day week, and therefore income tax returns are down. I should like to know who is to provide this £276 million. Has that matter been discussed with the Central Bank? The Minister visited the Arab States recently, but when the London advisers examine the balance sheet for the first six months of this year, I wonder what will be their view. The total income or revenue for the first six months of this year at £524 million is £91 million less than this time last year. It is down by nearly 20 per cent. When we look for loan finance of the order of £276 million we will require to show that the country is a going concern.

The deficit at this time last year was of the order of £5 million. Now it is £91 million; that is the running deficit as far as revenue and expenditure in running the country is concerned. The £524 million, which is the total income, represents 47 per cent of the original estimate on which the budget in January was based. Receipts from VAT are running at almost £18 million short. Customs and excise receipts are down. The original estimate under customs and excise made in January this year was £16 million greater than the £152 million secured so far. It is quite clear that in respect of income tax, customs and excise receipts and VAT revenue, there is a shortfall under every heading.

This is a very serious situation. The Government are embarking on the highest ever deficit on the current account of £241 million. They are seeking to finance that by way of loans secured elsewhere, loans from people who will be well advised as to the people to whom they are lending money. This situation was not something sprung on the Government. We have pointed out that the budget of April, 1973, was a spendthrift budget and that all our difficulties have flowed from that. In an effort to buy popularity, expectations were raised. The most immoral thing—I mean immoral in the broad public sense—that the leaders in any community can do is build up expectations among people out of all proportions to the reality of those expectations. To build up expectations in excess of any rational asssesment of their real achievement is immoral. Precisely what has happened here is that since March, 1973, expectations have been raised excessively. I do not blame the people for the present situation; this is a crisis of leadership. If the Government behave as if there is ample revenue available, that they can run into debt because there is no problem about repayment, that they can spread EEC revenue around because there is no real problem, they are not in a position to face up to a difficulty like the oil crisis.

The Minister said, very honestly, that the oil crisis was a secondary cause— this is something which happened in January, 1974—and that our present inflation rate of 25 per cent is caused to an extent of 80 per cent by our own habits and our own mismanagement of our own economy. We said this a long time ago on this side of the House. What the Minister has stated is borne out by the performance of Denmark. He stated in his brief that Denmark is a small trading country like ourselves, totally without any oil or energy resources, completely dependent on importation in that sphere and dependent also for its success on exports. That country has an inflation rate running at about 6 per cent. This applies to Western Germany also. In no country, excepting Great Britain, is the inflation rate as bad as it is here. Italy is reducing her inflation rate at the present time. She has tackled her problem, although she was regarded as being on the verge of bankruptcy some months ago.

How are we tackling the problem? The Government solemnly stood back from negotiation of the pay agreement. A little more than two months ago the pay agreement was finally negotiated. The Government should have been a major party to those negotiations. They are a major employer through the civil service, State-sponsored bodies, the Army, the Garda and so on. They should have had at least an interest in the proceedings, but apparently they took no interest in them. Either they took no interest or they were not heeded. In either case it is a deplorable state of affairs that decisions made only two months ago by employers and trade unions through the Employer-Labour Conference have now to be withdrawn by the Minister for Finance, who is the major single employer in the State.

It is extraordinary, too, when one looks at the recent publication from the Minister for Finance entitled Review of 1974 and Present Outlook. This, obviously, is a book that took some time and preparation. It did not emerge out of the blue in June, 1975. I quote, because it is very well worth quoting from, from page 27, paragraph 77:

It is a matter for concern that inflation has changed its character between 1974 and 1975. In 1974 price rises were mainly due to external influences but in 1975 inflation in Ireland will be largely generated domestically, particularly as a result of developments in employee incomes. Planned income increases in 1975, superimposed on 1974 income levels for non-agricultural employees, will give pay increases far in excess of any possible productivity growth and beyond the capacity of the economy to bear. Present indications suggest that the application to all of the increases visualised in the 1975 National Agreement would have the effect of raising non-agricultural employee incomes by almost a third in 1975. Increases of this magnitude will make it difficult to maintain the competitiveness of our goods in domestic and international markets and will impair our ability to maintain existing employment or to reduce unemployment.

That is a very fair summary of our present dilemma. The document contains a full summary of the situation for the first six months of the year. It is a review of last year and the early months of this year.

How, with that knowledge available in the Department and to the Government as a whole, did the Government stand by and allow the pay agreement negotiations to proceed, knowing that it would impair existing employment and would generate further inflation? It baffles comprehension that this could happen, that we are now putting engines into reverse that were put into motion only eight weeks ago, that the financial adviser to the Government in the form of the Department of Finance could spell out all this so clearly in the paragraph I have just quoted and that the Government, apart from their obligation and duty to safeguard our currency and build up our economy, could stand back and allow this matter to proceed.

We did not hear a word from the Government. Indeed, the Minister for Labour welcomed the pay agreement. That was only two months ago. Now the Government are seeking to cancel phases three and four of the agreement by bringing in measures last week that were hailed prior to their emergence as being something that would really get down to tackling the problem. Eventually, when everything is added up, it is expected that the measures taken will reduce the consumer price index by 4 per cent and will reduce inflation from 25 per cent to 21 per cent. Even that pious aspiration is dependent on other sectors of the community making up the Government's mind for them.

The Minister said in this respect that the Government were anxious for consensus and so on. That is all very well, but when you are faced with the crisis situation with which we are now faced you do not continually fiddle away while the place is being burned to the ground. You get off your high horse and go and get the fire brigade yourself. You do something about it. But merely to continue fiddling away in the expectation that somebody else will come along and solve the problem for you, be they employers or trade unions, is an expectation that has been well and truly shattered. In my view that is the expectation that ran from March-April, 1973, until recently. For two and a quarter years the expectation was that everything would be all right eventually, that it was only an oil crisis which was affecting the whole world. But the chickens have now come home to roost and the problem will not simply run away. It is not something that has legs. Governments are there to make decisions, welcome or unwelcome.

In my view—and this is a view that is supported by some discussions I have had with what are now called our social partners both on the trade union and employer sides—the trade unions and the employers would welcome a stand by the Government. It is no help to the trade union movement for the Government to say: "It is not our problem. We are not going to settle it. It is over to you. We have done A, B, C and D and now it is over to you. Let you get around the table with the employers, renew the Employer-Labour Conference and we would be very glad if you would come back and tell us what your position is to be".

That would be a long procedure. It would take some time to evolve. I wonder if it is the right approach. I wonder in this sort of situation in which we find ourselves would the Government not get a far more receptive attitude outside from employers and from labour if they spelled out what they proposed doing? I do not see the trade unions, the employers and the Employer-Labour Conference taking on the business of governing this country. I do not blame them for that. My approach would be, if I were a trade unionist, that this is a matter for the Government. The Government are asking the trade union movement to carry the can for them.

It is deplorable that the whole area of decision and action in regard to Government is leaving the Oireachtas and going elsewhere. Surely, it shows a totally distorted sense of values for the Government to expect other people in the community to bail the Government out of the trouble into which they have got themselves. That is what the Government are now doing. This in a situation where the Government are the major employer and where they have within their own capacity the ability to take meaningful decisions. We have witnessed the debauchery of democracy by the performance last week of a Minister for Finance who showed that he and the Government were unwilling to deal with the most severe economic crisis to hit the State. Instead, they say we can reduce inflation from 25 per cent to 21 per cent and on the basis of that contribution they ask the people whose agreement they welcomed two months ago to reconsider that agreement and abandon the agreed rates under phases three and four.

That is the reality of the situation. It is the first time that the dangerous irrelevancy into which the Oireachtas may fall—if that action is repeated—has been pointed out so starkly. Every Member of the Oireachtas is elected and they tell the people on what basis they must elect a Government. The people exercise their democratic franchise by voting out one Government and voting in another. That is parliamentary democracy, the main purpose of which is to ensure that when the democratically elected Government are elected they govern. That is what politics is about.

Last Thursday the Government decided to hand over their mandate to people outside the Dáil and Seanad—to the trade union movement and to the employers. They were asked to make up their mind about a matter on which the Government should decide. The Minister must return with further proposals because obviously last week's budget is only a stop-gap measure. It is only to remedy the exacerbation of the situation that has arisen since last Jaunary when the Minister made it quite clear there would be an autumn budget. This budget is designed merely to correct the situation which has arisen since last January and there will have to be another budget in the autumn to meet the situation as envisaged last January. At the same time, we have no indication how the deficits in the current budget will be met.

All this has arisen in a situation where, not alone have we inflation running at 25 per cent, but where the level of unemployment is 103,000 and there are more than 50,000 young people leaving school, at least half of whom will be seeking employment. There is no indication of how the level of employment will rise. A basic flaw in the document proposed last week is that it is very vague as regards employment. It says that additional finance will be available from the banking system towards the construction industry. I am sure the banks will apply the same criteria towards the construction industry as they did up to now. The mere uttering of pious platitudes that additional funds will be available will mean nothing when the builder or developer goes to the banks and seeks to raise the necessary loans.

That is not the way to tackle the construction industry problem. One of the major flaws in the present Government's approach in the employment area has been their neglect of the private building sector. There is no point in the Minister for Local Government giving figures for overall housing programmes. The private sector of the industry was allowed to run down because the building societies were allowed to run down, because no effort was made to encourage the investment of funds in the building societies.

In the last two budget debates we mentioned practical ways in which funds could be encouraged by enabling investors to invest tax free to the extent of £5,000 or £10,000. It has been the non-availability of funds to the private borrower that has militated against the private building industry and caused construction to fall to zero at present.

In last week's budget the Minister proposed raising local authority loans. The interest repayment on local authority loans for private house building will be at the same level as building society loans. The rate is to be increased by 2 per cent. This is hitting at a basic employment area. I am a firm believer that the health of the construction industry in any community is the basic barometer of that community's economic prosperity. The building and ancillary industries are badly hit at the moment. The danger sign was there, not two months ago, but two years ago. Nothing has been done to help that area. Now private building organisations are going elsewhere with their finance, to Britain, Europe, the Middle-East and North Africa, by reason of a Government policy which has allowed finance to private house building to dry up.

That brings me to the point that in the budget statement of last week there is nothing positive in the employment area. I may be asked what I mean by that statement, considering that £12 a week is given to re-employ redundant persons. That is not the way to deal with the problem. The way to deal with the unemployment situation is by way of tax incentives towards industry. I mentioned one area of tax incentive towards building societies. Similarly, massive tax incentives towards private industry is the only way to meet the situation. I should like to see the Government deficit of £241 million in the current year going by way of tax incentives towards employment—tax incentives towards the encouragement and development of industrial employment and employment in the construction industry. What we need to get us out of our present trouble—I have said it before in all seriousness—is to get back to the incentive economy we had here some years ago when it paid to show enterprise, to re-invest, to expand, to work and give over the odds at every level whether it was at worker, manager or investor level.

To money back into the economy is the way to get investment and employment going. There was no sign of that in the budget proposals. Indeed there is a 10 per cent surcharge over a certain income level. I can understand the Minister's problems. Due to the appalling mess in which he has found himself, with a deficit on current account up to £241 million odd, he had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get revenue. Therefore he cannot take the sort of plunge I am talking about and forego revenue in the interest of tax incentives in particular areas that would give employment. We would be far better occupied in foregoing revenue of that kind than in running an inordinate budget deficit in order to keep the apparatus of Government going. What is happening here now is that the Government, by reason of their inflated spending programme, both on current and capital accounts, are getting a growing share out of the finances available in the commercial banks. The commercial banks do not have the money for the expansion in the private sector which would give employment.

What we have here is unprecedented. We have inflation running at a very high rate and unemployment rising at the same time. This is a totally unusual combination of events. How to break that vicious circle is the Government's problem. In my view, they are going completely the wrong way about it. They are not making the decisions that need to be made to break that vicious circle. The first decision that has to be made is that the Government look after their own affairs and that the Government exercise control in the whole area of their jurisdiction. In this way, if they cut expenditure on current account and embark on a balanced budgetary policy, the Government can raise the necessary funds to invest both on the private and public levels. The Government are not going to raise the necessary funds abroad with a deficit of £241 million. That is not the way to approach the problem of getting £276 million. So far they have not told us how or where they are going to get this amount.

The Minister for Finance may hawk our case from here to Kuwait, but these gentlemen will have financial advisers in London who will examine the case presented to them. The case presented to them will have to be much better than the budget deficit of £241 million. That is where the Government, first of all, will have to tackle the problem. This is nothing unusual. Germany and Denmark have done it this way. The United States of America have already done it this way and are out of their recession. It is simply a matter of coming back to some sort of approximate balancing of the books. I do not mind a budget deficit up to a point, but a deficit that was planned at £125 million in January this year and is now, before the end of June, at £241 million is shattering. Budget deficits within reason are part of modern finance but not to this outlandish extent.

Until the Government put their own house in order and, instead of introducing all sorts of fancy schemes and making announcements and building up expectations, which has been the pattern over the past two and a half years, thus adding to the inflation fires, show by example that they mean business, they will not raise the necessary funds or promote both public and private capital expansion. The matter lies with the Government. From March of 1973 the Government consistently embarked on a campaign of raising public expectations out of all proportion to reality. The Government were guilty of gross public immorality by buying popularity out of all proportion to the economic and financial realism of the situation in which they found themselves.

As I have said before in this House, if we had won the last general election we were not going to bring in a popular budget. I remember quite accurately the financial papers that were before us in Government in January and February of 1973. They forecast the sort of difficulties into which we were going. The Government chose to ignore those financial recommendations and decided instead to embark immediately on a buy popularity at all cost campaign. As a result of that they slipped into budget deficiting. Budget deficiting is an excellent idea provided discipline is exercised. It is a good idea to plan a budget deficit so that the deficit can be devoted towards productive use. I am all for a budget deficit in that context. A budget deficit that can be shown to be geared to increasing production is a budget deficit to be welcomed. It is bad to have a budget deficit that is merely there to pay bills on current account and in order to pay annual outgoings, and is included, as it has been included, along with the capital programme as requiring loan finance to meet the immediate problem, thus generating a further budget deficit for a future year when the loan finance raised will have to be met. That sort of aggravation of the problem has brought us to the present mess in which we find ourselves.

I hope I am not being negative in my approach. There is a way out of this, even at this late stage. The way out of it is for the Government to govern, to come to the Houses of the Oireachtas and tell the people exactly what the position is and exactly what the Government propose to do and not ask other people to carry the Government's can. It is totally unfair to the representatives of the trade unions and the representatives of the employers that they should be asked to carry the can for the Government. The Government were elected to govern. That would be one welcome innovation. They should try to get the popularity virus out of their system and come into the Dáil and the Seanad and say: "This is what we propose. This is what is required in the present situation". If the trade unions and the employers get that sort of message from the Government they will come round because they will then be aware that there is a Government in charge that mean business. As long as they get the impression that the Government in charge do not mean business and that they are expected to carry the burden of the Government's job, there will be no great success. That is the first thing that needs to be done.

The other great effect that a change of attitude would have, apart from settling the Government's immediate problems in regard to their inability to meet their commitments and combat inflation, is that it would start to restore confidence among the community. Confidence is a sort of indefinable thing that you cannot put your finger on but it is the most important element in economic growth. It is the most important element in raising finance, in expanding business, in creating jobs. Basically all these things stem from confidence, because when confidence is there the necessary decisions are made that lead to expansion, reinvestment and more jobs. If confidence is not there the decisions are not made; they are shelved. That is basic economics.

In Ireland at this moment about 1,000 people, in Britain about 20,000, and in America possibly 100,000 people, are making decisions every day which involve expansion and employment. For example, a small factory employing six decides whether or not they will plough a bit of money into the enterprise and employ 12. Another factory with 400 decides whether it will go into this or that line of development and take on another 200. There are hundreds of these decisions being made every day. All of these decisions in Ireland at the present time are being postponed and shelved. That is what confidence is about. These decisions are not being made. People are contracting rather than expanding. This is part of what happens when people are let go. Small, medium or large farmers, in order to protect themselves in a situation of inflation such as exists now, make the decision to cut back, to let A, B, C and D go. They will cut down their overheads and sit back and wait for the rainy day to pass by, employ far fewer, concentrate on one profitable line, and stop producing other lines. That sort of negative decision is being made by businessmen all over this country at the moment. It is the hundreds of decisions for expansion that count in building up an economy. Those hundreds of decisions are being made in the wrong way at the present time. They will only be made in the right way when there is confidence, confidence by them in the Government and in the community in which they live.

If the Government showed that they were governing through this House of Parliament by dealing with their inflationary and budgetary problems and with the overall national economic problems in the proper manner, it would be a sign of confidence to all of these people I am talking about making their individual and personal decisions; it would be the green light to get going instead of the red light to stop. That is the second direct aspect that would flow from the Government getting to grips with the job and making decisions themselves.

The Government can, by being a Government, deal with the inflation of prices and incomes. Being a Government will in itself enable them to deal with their budgetary and balance of payments problems. Secondly, the consequent creation of confidence will encourage the making of the hundreds of decisions that can be made by small, medium and big people in various areas of economic activity throughout the State.

Lastly, I would suggest very positively that, having done that, what the Government can do is embark on a very detailed policy of tax incentives. They cannot do that at present because of the hole in which they find themselves. Possibly they could even gamble for a further budget deficit. I realise the difficulty the Minister is in with the £241 million millstone around his neck—revenue is all important to cope with that problem—but even so, it might be worth taking a gamble to have a deficit, to forswear revenue in order to draw up a widespread scheme of tax incentives at every level to encourage industry. I would see no difficulty in expert advice being made available to the Minister for Finance fairly quickly on what areas of incentive or what type of reliefs of taxation would make a dramatic impression on business and on industry. I do not want to go into the details. They are there in the various tax measures. I am certain that a small committee would itemise the areas which would maximise the incentive and minimise the loss to the revenue. There would have to be a forswearing of revenue in this matter. If it cannot be done now, at least that is the way to really get the economy back on its feet at a later stage. The first step must be for the Government to show clearly to the people that the Government representative of this House, elected by the people, are in charge of affairs and are not going to hand over their responsibilities to any other body outside this House.

I want to mention a few points that I firmly believe are the only way out of the morass in which the Government find themselves. They have found themselves there through the build-up of unreal expectations. They have been told consistently over the past two-and-a-half years that that is where they have been going. It is quite clear now that the problem is entirely one within domestic control. The Minister for Finance very frankly has told us that it is a problem that is 80 per cent within our own ambit to control. In July, 1975, there is no point in talking about the Arabs in January of 1974. That is water under the bridge 18 months ago. It is no longer relevant to our problem at all. As the Minister for Finance quite candidly said: "If the Arabs are not there to blame somebody must take the blame."

As Harry Truman said on one occasion: "The buck stops here". The buck stops fairly and squarely on the Government's table. It is lying there and, as I said, it has not got legs; it will not run away and it cannot be transferred to somebody else's table. This is not a matter of politics int he sense of buying votes. It is too serious a matter for that, and I would hope that that is not the consideration utmost in the Government's mind. I am giving them credit for good intentions. They have been deplorably weak in handling the problem. I would hope that they will look into their hearts, examine the matter and take the required action to safeguard our economy and, above all, to safeguard our currency, because if the economy runs down and our currency gets into trouble then we are into a quasi-revolutionary situation.

I hope the Government get their priorities right in this respect. The priorities are not who wins the next general election. That is irrelevant and unimportant. Overall it is an important aspect, but it is not a priority in the present context. If the Government have been too exercised by electoral expectations in the past, I would ask them to get the virus out of their system. It is all right in its own place and in its own time to fight elections in accordance with the democratic process. But Governments do not get respect and do not command the credibility of people unless they take decisions on behalf of the people, strong and unpopular decisions if necessary, even decisions that indicate to the people that those in the Government do not care whether they win the next election or not. That is the sort of decision that people expect from a Government. They do not expect a Government to behave in a manner of election expediency. They do not expect a Government, on being elected, to start being popular. This is where the major error started, that this Government never got out of their system the notion that they had to be popular immediately and had to continue being popular day in, day out.

The matter is far too serious for electoral or political expediency. This is politics, where the Government's mettle is being tested. So far, they have been found sadly wanting in this capacity. It is on that criterion that the public will judge a Government when the next election comes round. It will not be on the criterion of how much goodwill is spread around the country. No Government or Government Minister is judged on that basis. They are judged on the basis of how they discharge their responsibilities in governing the country. In my view, people are mature enough to look at it that way. They may grumble and complain if there is some temporary, unpopular measure adopted but, however great the degree of unpopularity is, if a Government are shown to be governing they will command respect and people will support them. This Government have demonstrated an enormous capacity for not governing and their final shame was last Thursday when quite clearly they refused to govern and asked other people to govern for them.

Tá áthas orm go bhfuil an mBille seo os ár gcomhair. Tugann sé seans dúinn obair an Rialtais a thabhairt faoi ndeara agus a scrúdú ón Roinn Airgeadais síos go dtí an Roinn is ísle sa Rialtas. Is oth liom nach bhfuil áis againn iad a mholadh as rudaí maithe a d'fhéadfaidís a dhéanamh. B'fhéidir go n-abróidís nach ndéanfainn a leithéid dá mbeadh an moladh tuillte. Mar sin féin, tá aibhéal orm nach bhfuil an scéal amhlaidh.

First of all, I should like to say that that this Appropriation Bill gives the Seanad a chance to make a few observations on general Government policy since this Government came into office. It was only in 1973 that Fianna Fáil handed over the ship of State. Never in the history of this State has any Government handed over the country to a succeeding Government in such excellent order. During the last two years, practically in every Department of that Government, things have gone from bad to worse. No one can take any pride in this, because, as a responsible citizen, I do not think any of us would take any pleasure in boasting of the failures of a Government or indeed of the downward trend in the economy. Most of us would do our best, irrespective of which side of the House we sat on, by our deliberations and by the actions of the Government to improve the living standards of the people and to enhance the prestige of our citizens and of our country abroad.

We have been in the EEC for the last two or three years and, naturally, not alone are the eyes of our neighbours on us but we have been watched even by countries in Europe and in particular the countries that are associated with us there. They have heard of the good name of Ireland and they have seen the thriving state of our economy up to, say, 1973. I am sure they have now adverted to the very sudden and drastic change that has taken place and that it will have an effect on how they will treat us and what they will think of us as a nation in regard to the management of our own affairs. I have no hesitation in saying that all these ills flow from the performance of the present Government. The Fianna Fáil Government had been in office for 16 years and naturally they were jubilant when they took over, especially when they were taking over the country in such wonderful financial shape. There was confidence; there were plenty of people employed; new factories were springing up all over the place; the tide of emigration had been stemmed.

Why then was there need for the severe budget that Senator Lenihan mentioned in 1973.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

Senator Markey should not interrupt the Senator in possession.

Senator Markey is in partnership with the Fine Gael element of the Coalition and I expect we will have a contribution from him later. He may have a chance to explain to the people of Louth why the people in Dunleer are unemployed, why the shoe industry has collapsed in Dundalk and so on. I do not think he would be justified in blaming that on the Fianna Fáil Government. He can take full credit for it himself and his Coalition partners.

Before I was interrupted I was adverting to the fact that it is no consolation for any Member to take kudos from the financial state this country is in at present. The sole responsibility lies with this Government. When they took office, they found things in tip-top shape. One would expect, with a solid foundation such as that, that this Government would have been able to proceed and expand on all fronts. Instead, they spent the first year or so in office using every form of the media and every method possible both at home and abroad to get tremendous publicity for themselves as individuals and as a Government. I suppose new faces were attractive to the media and people expected great things from this Government of all the talents because, there is no doubt about it, they did include very learned men. Personally, I would agree that they are excellent men in their own way but a disaster when you combine them together in a cabinet or a Government.

The people were led to believe that this Government could work miracles and that we were in for a wonderful time. We were to have a honeymoon during the duration of the Coalition Government. People probably overlooked in the beginning the composition of this Government. Two diametrically-opposed elements were included in it, the Labour element on the one side and the Fine Gael on the other. Before the election they said they would form a Government and, in justice to them, they did that. However, anyone could see that because of the diametrically-opposed elements in it, it could not work. The fact that they are in office after two years and three months does not indicate that it is working even at present. It has been said to me that only twice since they were elected did the Coalition Government meet as a parliamentary party. It is a very important part of the exercises of any party in Government to meet and discuss their various Bills and problems before they come into the Houses of the Oireachtas with them. If they meet in different rooms, as I am told, it is no wonder that we have the economic ills facing us at present and that there are dissention and conflict between the two elements.

Many of the Labour people have been, or are, union officials. That is their own business and I am not criticising them: unions are very useful and are a very important part of our social structure. Employers and, indeed, Governments would rather negotiate with unions than with single individuals because they have a better chance of striking a bargain and getting responsible reaction. But when people who are members or officials in unions are also Members of a Government then it is hard not to think or suggest that very often there are leakages from those Cabinet meetings and that the unions are getting a feedback as to what is happening. This can lead to indecision and it could be the reason for the abdication of responsibilities which we witnessed last week in the Dáil when the Minister was suggesting that this problem should be handed back to the unions and employers for settlement. That is completely wrong as far as any Government is concerned. A Government that is not able to make up its mind and make its own decisions there and then will not command the confidence that a Government should command from the people.

From the beginning, the Ministers were placed in very difficult roles. We learned through the columns of The Sunday Independent recently from articles written by correspondents who must have been leaked the information from the parliamentary party meetings, articles giving profiles of the various Ministers, how they had been selected and the reasons why they were placed in various Departments. It is no exaggeration to say that many of them are, in my opinion, square pegs in round holes.

For the last couple of months, we had in this House the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs discussing the Broadcasting Bill. Anyone would know immediately that that Minister was misplaced. He was probably put there for a specific reason knowing that he would like to ensure that there would be a British channel broadcasting over our transmission service and also to prevent him from accepting the portfolio of Foreign Affairs which he would have loved to get and which he felt he was eminently suited for. This is an example of some of the things that happened so far as the selection of the Ministers was concerned. Because of that, and because of the way in which the Cabinet was put together and the fact that they do not meet as a parliamentary party, it is only natural to expect there would be much conflict in regard to decisions.

It is no fault of the trade union movement to fight for the benefit of its workers. If they entered into a freely-negotiated agreement with employers with the full consent of the Government regarding wage increases and so on, naturally they would expect such agreements to be honoured. It is not much consolation to them to find that the Minister is suggesting that they should welsh on these agreements and settle among themselves rather than have the Government make the decision for them and so take the Government out of the terrible mess in which they find themselves. It is wrong to throw this back to the trade unions and the employers. If the Government are not able to make important decisions such as that they should not be there as a Government at all.

Inflation is rampant. It was roughly 3 per cent in 1960. It is now over 20 per cent. Last year, when we had the Appropriation Bill, many Government spokesmen were able to blame inflation on the Arabs and the oil crisis. There was some foundation in that. We all admit that there was an oil scarcity and that it did increase prices. That situation is no longer there and it is neither fair nor logical to continue year after blaming the Arabs for every misfortune which hits us.

When we had Coalition Government in this country from 1949 to 1951 we had the Korean War. The Coalition Government were able to use as an excuse for the bungling that was going on then that they were being affected by the Korean War and that was one of the reasons why things were so bad. During the period of the second Coalition Government from 1955 to 1957, we had over 95,000 unemployed, many people emigrating and many houses vacant because there were no jobs available and consequently people emigrated to England and America. But when they did go to America or England jobs were available for them. If they tried to emigrate now they would not get jobs over there. Therefore, it is vitally important that the Government should be on their toes and doing something to improve the present disastrous situation.

It was not sheer coincidence that inflation increased from 3 per cent in 1960 to over 20 per cent in 1975. During the years of the Fianna Fáil administration and, in particular, in 1970, 1971 and 1972, it was an average of 8 per cent. For a Government to come along after two years in office with their fourth budget and present us now with a deficit of over £450 million is a despicable performance. No country could survive in a situation such as that if it prevails for very long. The confidence of other countries in us would be shattered and so also would the confidence of home investors. People would not be willing to support such a Government. The banks would not agree to advance money. The gentlemen of London, Zurich, Paris and other places will not give us any money, because we owe so much at present. I have no pride in such a situation. People would like to see the Government getting loans at reasonable interest rates in order to create employment. It will be no consolation to anyone if Government applications for loans are refused. They will be refused because there will be no confidence in the Government's ability to redeem them. Any moneylenders, be they large or small, need to know their loans will be repaid with some interest.

During the 1950s when Marshall Aid was available here from America—and a fair amount of it came in here—that money had to be repaid. To our eternal credit, any money that we borrowed we succeeded in repaying. Any Government that have held office since 1922 have done their best to ensure that the country would be in a sound financial position. It is important for every individual to ensure that he is able to meet his financial commitments. Young people should be trained in this way and they should be shown good example by the Government. Any Government worth their salt should try to ensure that they can balance their budget. They should set a headline for the ordinary individual, the small business man and for the people in general. It is important to pay our way to the best of our ability. If we are paying our way and if things are going reasonably well, people will have confidence in us and more money will roll in.

In most of the areas under the control of the Government, we find there is something rotten. In the Department of Local Government, which affects the whole country, we find there has been a cut-back in the amount of money available for many important schemes. With inflation running at around 20 per cent, money made available to local authorities should have been increased by that figure, which would bring the allocations up to what they were last year. We know that raw materials have increased in price. There have been increases in wages and salaries under various national pay agreements. To provide the same amount of money this year for a local authority as they received last year will not meet their commitments. The money is not sufficient even to maintain previous employment. There is no possibility of increasing the number of jobs.

Amenity grants, which were provided formerly to local authorities for improving areas around lake shores, providing parks, lay-bys, scenic views and so on, which would be of benefit to tourists and also to the local people, were cut this year. We see very few men working on the roads, or on river banks, or on buildings. We know from the official figures that over 103,000 are unemployed. These figures could be drastically reduced if the Government were in a position to provide money to the local authorities so that they could proceed with many of the jobs that need to be done and which would be of vital importance in their own areas and would be of immense benefit to the people.

In my own area we did our very best to get a grant from the Department to provide bog roads. We were not looking for anything elaborate. We did not want tarred roads or speed tracks or highways. We wanted a small grant from the Central Fund because the Minister for Finance and other Ministers also said that it was important to conserve our fuel reserves and that we should try to use our native fuels. We have plenty of turbary in our area— some of the best bogs in Ireland—and people have maintained turf production there. It has been the traditional way of keeping the home fires burning for thousands of years. In the past 20 or 30 years people have changed over from horse-drawn vehicles to tractors and consequently tracks formerly used by turf hauliers are not suitable for heavier vehicles. Fortunately, the weather has been very dry. Perhaps as the Government are not coming to the rescue, the Almighty is making some attempt to help the people to get the fuel out from the bogs. The Government have made no effort whatever to assist in providing money for the making of bog roads, and this should have been an important part of their policy.

We talk of obtaining oil off the south coast and gas from beneath the sea. Here is the turbary right on the surface. It can be obtained with no risk whatever. Fuel is available in abundance to keep the home fires burning in Cavan, Leitrim, Donegal, Longford and all around that area. Yet the Government are making no attempt whatever to provide grants for making short stretches of road, most of which would not exceed one or two miles in length. The only suggestion the Government could make was that the local county councils themselves should allot a portion of the road grants they were getting from the Department for the making of bog roads. But their road grants had been already less than what they were for the previous year. How could they provide money for bog roads? They completely rejected that suggestion. The Minister and the Government had been preaching that it was the duty of everybody to ensure that as much native fuel as possible was used so that we could reduce our imports of coal and oil from other countries.

When the members of the present Coalition Government were in Opposition they were very vocal about what they would do in regard to drainage. There was much talk about the draining of the River Erne. All the legal obstacles in regard to that project have been cleared. The scheme has been sent to the Office of Public Works and the one thing necessary now is the provision of funds. The Government should be anxious to proceed with this scheme. It will pay financial dividends because thousands of acres of arable land could easily be reclaimed. It would also create long-term employment for many people living there.

So far as I am aware from contacts I have had with people in the Six Counties it was felt for quite a long time that this should be done and, indeed, it was sent in by us as a cross-Border joint project between the Six Counties and the Republic with a view to a grant from EEC funds. We were hoping that something would happen in this regard. So far as I know, nothing has happened. There is no drainage work of any kind going on there despite the fact that the Government are over two years in office and they led the people to believe at that time that it only required a stroke of a pen to make finances available for such projects.

It was also on the cards that this drainage project would link up the Bally connell-Woodford canal with the River Erne and open up from the tourist point of view a vast area of water to visitors who come from abroad and for those at home. It could be one of the greatest tourist amenities in that whole north-western area. Lough Erne and the other surrounding lakes all connected by river, plus the Woodford canal linked to the Shannon, would be the greatest expanse of water that we have outside Europe. It would pay handsome dividends from the tourist point of view if this eventually happened. That idea, too, has been shelved and it does not seem, from what I know at present and, indeed from the financial state in which the Government find themselves, that there is any possibility whatever of putting any people to work in that area on an important scheme such as this, a scheme that I know would pay dividends to the Government and the people in general and would make economic farmers out of many people who yearly see their land being flooded and have been appealing for a long time to have something done about it and, as yet, have not succeeded.

So far as the Department are concerned we had great expectations when the Coalition Government took office. They led people to believe that they would cure all the ills, not alone of the patients but that they would cure practically everybody and that there would be no financial limitations. Indeed, the Minister for Health went so far as to make a public announcement with a great fanfare of trumpets over the television and radio network and through the news media in general, augmented by almost life-size photographs, saying that not alone would the health service be improved but he would provide a free-for-all health service right up to those in the £20,000 bracket. As a matter of fact, the sky was the limit.

Most of us knew at that time that this was a wildcat type of scheme. There were many people already in the Voluntary Health Insurance Scheme and were paying into it and they were adequately catered for. We felt it was ridiculous to be embarking on a scheme such as this at a time when there were many other people in the middle income and in the lower income groups who were not adequately catered for. We felt that if there was any money to spare in this respect it should be spent on those in the lower income bracket to give them better health services and to ensure that nobody—and that was the thinking behind the Health Act when it was first introduced—would suffer or be allowed to die because he was not able to pay his hospital bills and his general health expenses. It was a surprise to me and to many people to find that our present Minister was going beyond that and providing free health services for everybody in this country.

I do not know what has happened to that scheme. I know that it has not come to fruition and I do not expect that it ever will. It was foolish to embark on it in the first instance, but that is a matter for the Government themselves. I am sure the Minister, in doing that, had the full backing of the Government. Perhaps it was designed to improve the popularity of the Government but I do not think it would succeed in that because the majority of the citizens are wise enough to realise that somebody must pay in the long run and that the money provided for this scheme would have to come from the general taxpayer.

We, too, in Cavan have been expecting a new hospital for quite a long time and all the preliminaries have been gone through and, so far as I am aware, as a member of the health board and the county council and from local knowledge, everything is cleared but the money is not available. We realise that the Government can have difficulties. What annoys us most of all is that the Government will not come clean on this issue and say frankly: "We have not got any money. We will build no hospital in County Cavan for the next 15 years". That would be the straight way of telling the people rather than have them cliff-hanging, organising sham meetings all over the country saying: "We must put pressure on the Minister to get this done". Any pressure that could possibly be put on the Minister has been put on him long ago. The North Eastern Health Board have cleared this and have come down, fairly and squarely, as No. 1 priority for a new hospital for Cavan. Nothing whatever has happened despite the fact that the Minister himself said that after the 1st January he would make an early decision. January is well gone and, indeed, the Minister for Foreign Affairs has actually finished his half-year as President for the EEC. The half-year is gone and, therefore, we are now into the seventh month and yet no decision has been taken and I do not believe any decision will be taken.

The people are reasonable in this respect. We would appreciate it if the Government said plainly: "We are not able to do it". Then, they might get down to something smaller: they might ensure that in these hospitals there would be at least a proper operating theatre. If they were not able to build the great big rooms around a hospital they might ensure that the central portion of the hospital would be provided and later on the rest could be added to it. The most important part of any hospital is the operating theatre. Every possible equipment should be there. The other wards and rooms' around it are more or less convalescent places where people go to recuperate and it would not be necessary to have them nearly as elaborate as in the original design.

That is only one facet of our health services. There are many others that one could enter on here, but I shall not delay the House on that.

Another Department which has been under fire for quite a long time is the Department of Education. It is no wonder. While I admit that the Minister for Education is a very gentlemanly type of man, a likeable type of person, a good personality, the media have over-projected him to the public at large. He found himself in this position, probably through no fault of his own. At any rate he is there to do a specific job and our object on this side of the House is to see how he, with the other Ministers, has faced up to accomplishing that.

We have a motion on the Order Paper for quite a long time dealing with the Department of Education. It states:

That Seanad Éireann notes with concern the decision by the Minister for Education to dispense with the services of untrained teachers in the primary school sector.

That motion has not come up for debate in the Seanad. We felt it was an important and rather urgent one, especially in view of the fact that it is now 1st July and we have gone past 30th June. I am not saying that was the fault of the Minister for Education. I am not one who would advocate having untrained teachers in the service but many of those people, some of whom had ten or 15 years' service, and worked in rural parts of the country where no other teacher could be got at the time and because of that, some of the cases should have been specially considered.

Business suspended at 5.30 p.m. and resumed at 7.15 p.m.

Is deacair a dhéanamh amach cén áit ar stop mé nó cén méid atá ráite agam. Tá súil agam nach bhfuil sé go léir i gcloigeann an Cathaoirligh, nó tá mé scriosta ar fad.

When we adjourned I was making reference to the money being spent on education and all that it involves. It is almost 10 years since the educational scheme was introduced which provided free post-primary education facilities for everybody. At that time, because of the speed with which it was enacted, buses were put on the roads, some of them narrow roads which have not been improved since and are very much in need of repair, especially at bad corners which can be traffic hazards. I know it is not easy to find money to do all these things but year by year some little attempt should be made to try to eliminate as quickly as possible these travel hazards, especially in rural Ireland.

Because of the amalgamation of summer schools and the extensions carried out to vocational and secondary schools, many prefabs were introduced. These are rather dear structures despite the fact that they are prefabs. Many of the original ones were made of timber. It has been our experience in the County Cavan Vocational Education Committee that to move one of these prefabs costs more than £3,000. Even when you do move them you find that they have deteriorated very much and that they are not reasonably solid structures. I do not think they are good value for the money spent. Consequently I would respectfully suggest that some effort should be made to replace some of these prefabs. I do not mean that the Government have any great magic whereby they can find the money to do these things. I do not suggest that they all should be replaced immediately. The type of prefab that was manufactured in the beginning is not one suitable for our climate and not suitable for the conditions that it was supposed to solve. Consequently, the Government might find a solution in going over to Roh-Fab or some other method of construction whereby they would use mass concrete rather than timber. In this way the engineers would be able to design some type of structure that would be collapsible and moveable and that would not deteriorate as rapidly as the timber structures. They could be made, with the addition of central heating, reasonably comfortable places to work in.

No teachers like to be in dilapidated surroundings. It is not possible always to have palatial residences. The method should not be to have wooden teachers in golden schools—golden teachers in wooden schools might be more appropriate. Timber might be going out altogether and I would suggest that the day of the pre-fab is numbered whether it be for an extension to a hospital or to a school. I do not think it would be wise to advocate the provision of stone-built buildings as replacements for these because stone or concrete buildings are very costly. It would be easier to design a Roh-Fab and it would be as efficient.

There are many facets of the educational system to which one could make reference here, career guidance and various things that affect pupils in general. It should be our aim when we turn out our pupils from post-primary schools and universities to have some jobs available for them. It would be wise for any Minister for Education or any Government to try to keep a close check on what is happening in our educational institutions, what is emerging as the end product and what possibilities there are of finding jobs for these people in their own country. I know quite a number of them will have to emigrate, but the majority are very anxious to remain at home. AnCO are doing a tremendous job preparing people for readaptation and so on. If employment was available I am quite sure that AnCO are providing the skilled personnel that will be necessary for any expansion that will come in home employment in the future.

I may have made reference to the Department of Defence and our soldiers who are giving tremendous service. Many of them live in difficult conditions. In recent years they have been stationed in Border areas and so on and many of the soldiers find it difficult to get homes in those areas because the housing programme is not up to it. This is an area where the National Building Agency should move in and ensure that there would be a few houses available in any reasonably sized towns where Army personnel are stationed. I see many of them at night on Border roads who are exposed to the elements and have a very tough life.

The same applies to gardaí who have been doing a tremendous job in these difficult areas in the last five or six years. During the winter months some attempt should be made to provide cheap kiosks for those who have to stand on duty for five or six hours in very inclement weather. Some progress has been made in this respect but I think it could be speeded up and would pay dividends. There is no substitute in crime prevention like having the garda on the beat.

It is important that our gardaí be reasonably satisfied with their conditions. They have a very difficult role and the security of the State depends on them. They are a very dedicated body of men and we should do everything to ensure that the little comforts they need are given to them. The same applies to the Army. Recently we had this furore regarding promotions in the Army. We have a motion later on the Adjournment about this matter. I have a little experience of soldiers who have served in the barrack square and who come up to the top. They are an excellent type of man. They know the job from A to Z. I admit that there are times when people have been promoted out of seniority. I suppose that is necessary to provide the incentive so that other people would aim to reach the highest post. Napoleon once said that every soldier has a marshal's baton in his knapsack.

The Minister for Defence was wrong in outstepping this and in making promotions without consultation. I would not mind if he had consulted the Army personnel. The Chief of Staff and his assistants are the people who know the capabilities of potential officers, men who serve in the ranks and could be called upon to make critical and very important decisions in times of war or any other time. It was wrong for the Minister to do that. I do not mind him doing it in consultation with them because I am sure it was often done like that before.

I have nothing against the Minister for Defence, he is a decent man, but I feel he is not the best suited man for that position. That was displayed in particular during the visit of the Claudia here and on a few other occasions—a man who could go off sailing on the Irish Sea like Mr. Heath and his Morning Cloud last Saturday. I am not begrudging him his little bit of pleasure during the sunshine but I think he would be much better employed if he took advice from his own officers—men whom he should trust in his Department. If I had the good fortune to be Minister in any Department I would be in consultation with my officials and in particular with the Secretary of my Department. People like to know that they are getting a fair crack of the whip. Politics may be politics, but in the Army there is not any politics. There was a regulation at one time that to be a Member of the Houses of the Oireachtas you had to resign your Army commission. I think that has been disregarded now. It was Deputy Gilhawley who was responsible for having that done some time back. If a lot of people had known that in time they would have held on to the rank, they would have come here.

I was speaking about the Garda, and as we have the Minister for Justice here I think it would be wrong to let him away without making some reference again to the Criminal Justice Bill. We have spent a lot of time at this. I felt all along that it was unnecessary and today's news from the British Government seems to bear this out. I do not think it will ever get off the ground. As far as I can read between the lines, the British are now holding the gun to our heads and saying that unless we do such a thing they will not implement this in any shape or form. That again is typical British justice. I would not be influenced in any way by what they are doing. They are enemies in our country. They should not be here. They know the way out of it and they should get out and stay out. We could settle our own differences as Irishmen in our own 32 counties. That is beginning to percolate to them and perhaps the British Government are beginning to learn their lesson and may be pulling up their roots and getting out. I am quite sure that nobody will be sorry.

There are other Departments to which reference could be made under an Appropriation Bill. The Department of Lands have a difficult time at present, in particular so far as forest fires are concerned. It should be the duty of all of us to try to ensure that during the exceptionally dry spell that comes our way once in every 100 years good citizenship and civic spirit would prevail. Every public representative and every other person of influence should try to build up in the community a sense and awareness of the tremendous loss the nation could suffer in one night because of the vast potential and vast amount of money that is invested in our forestry and that the efforts of 30 or 50 years will not be destroyed overnight.

While I agree with forest walks and people enjoying themselves and that people are mature enough to protect them, it is only fair that everybody should be on their guard against forest fires. In the few instances that have occurred the fire brigades, although badly hampered, and the Army and the Garda have played a tremendous part. It is important for every citizen to instil into the members of his own family and to anybody with whom he comes in contact that our forests, that have been put there by previous generations as amenities for us and as a benefit for our nation should be preserved and protected to the best of our ability and that no act of sabotage or so on would result in the loss of millions of pounds.

There are other facets of the Department of Lands that are not as pleasant as that. Land has been let over a number of years and there are quite a number of things that could be seen to. I remember the Minister saying in Galway that he appointed extra staff to ensure that this would be speeded up. I should like to see some results. I should also like to see any remnants of land, fragmentation, that exits in many areas being solved. We are now in the EEC and farming is a very important part of our economy, and the small farmer has been put to the wall. The main reason for that is because of the fragmentation that existed under the old method whereby land was divided and where there was a British penal law which said that the land had to be divided among the sons until it got so small that it was hardly worthwhile leaving it to any of them. That caused a lot of litigation and rows over the years.

The time has now come when the Land Commission should try to mop up with every new reallotment they make, any of these little bits of triangles or small fields that are separated. They should come to some agreement with three or four or nine or ten farmers who are there and amalgamate them in such a way that each man would have his own land around his own farmhouse. In modern farming methods it has often been found necessary to pump liquid manure over the land and it cannot be done if you are going across another man's farm. Recently here in the Seanad I was amazed when I heard Senator Alexis FitzGerald say that in Dublin city he had not got multichannel television because a neighbour objected to the cable going across the neighbour's garden to supply his house. If that can exist in the city of Dublin where there are reasonably educated men and if they are so concerned about the little piece of land and the harm a cable crossing over it or under it would do, I can truthfully say that many farmers in rural Ireland would have a grievance if a neighbour tried to put slurry across his land without any right-of-way. The way to solve that would be to cut out these little pieces and put them together as units. By doing that the small farmer would have some chance of amalgamating his farm and having it consolidated under the one receivable order and at the same time he would be able to give it the attention it deserves.

So far as agriculture in general is concerned, this last year was a disastrous one for farmers. We had high hopes when we entered the EEC, and rightly so because for the first time in hundreds of years we got a new window into Europe for our produce. To their credit Fine Gael backed up the Fianna Fáil effort to get us into the EEC because they were reasonable enough to see the benefits that would accrue to the country from that. The vast benefits should accrue and will accrue, I hope. At the same time, I feel that the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries is not suitable for the job. Although he was connected with agriculture, he had not the leadership and initiative to carry out a policy that would ensure that the Irish farmer would get the best possible return for his labour. Perhaps it was not an easy role for a Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries to play as it had not been a traditional role and for years before that we had nothing to do with Europe in this respect, but be that as it may, he had officials advising him, men who knew quite a lot about this.

It would be wrong for him on any occasion to be associated with the British Minister of Agriculture. There are so many foreign languages in the EEC that we would find ourselves isolated and inclined to lean towards those speaking English. Consequently, our Minister would probably job along with the British Minister for Agriculture. Socially that may be all right but so far as a policy is concerned it is the worst thing that could happen because Britain has always been looking for cheap food from here and they got it. That is what they are fighting for in Europe too. The policy that would suit the British Government so far as the EEC is concerned is the one that would bring ruination to the Irish farmers and to the economy as a whole. Consequently, the Minister would be better employed if he was associating with the French or the Danes, who are closest to us so far as the benefits that would accrue from that golden triangle out there for our agriculture is concerned.

On the home front, it is equally true to say that the Minister's performance has been a disaster. Nothing ever hit the farming community like 1974-75. It was a well-known fact that cattle were being put into intervention, being slaughtered in the factories and many of these factories were owned by co-ops. They were as much to blame as the private owners. The private owners and the co-ops made millions of pounds profit last year on the factories. I do not mind people making profit. Profit is a built-in incentive to any industry and to any person who puts his money into anything and tries to provide employment, even though he is going to benefit financially, and we have to encourage him. If he was a foreigner who set up a factory, people would be giving him grants. When Irish people set up some industry and do their best to make a success of it we may be overcritical.

I do not want to be overcritical of people who set up meat factories, and so on, which give employment. I am critical about the method whereby these intervention payments were made. They were taken by the factories and by the co-ops and did not come back to the producers. The Department had inspectors in these factories and they knew this was going on. The Minister knew it was going on. Resolutions were passed by various committees of agriculture. The General Council of Committees of Agriculture made reference to it. The Minister is on record as saying that he would try to go after some of this money that was taken illegally from the farmers. I do not know how successful he has been. I would be very interested to know how successful he has been, and I am sure many farmers would be very interested, although they have lost sight of it and have said to themselves that it is gone with last year's snow and they will never see it again. If the same thing happens this year it would be disastrous. The old adage says: "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". I want to warn the Minister that he should keep his eyes open so far as many of these meat processing factories are concerned to ensure that the intervention benefits from the EEC will come to the people who need them.

Before the Coalition Government came to office, I remember the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries and others advocating that the beef incentive scheme was a dead loss and to make it more profitable there were resolutions sent from many county committees asking if the first two cows would be included in this and pointing out that it would not cost a lot of money. We in Cavan submitted resolutions but so far nothing has happened. I would ask the Minister to consider this very carefully in future. It would be something for the small farmers. The farmer with five, ten or 15 cows gets no benefit from the calf incentive scheme or the beef incentive scheme on the first two cows but if a farmer has 40, 50 or 60 cows he will get the benefit. I do not think that is correct. The small farmer has been the backbone of our country. He should be paid on every animal he has. If there is any penalising to be done it should be on the man with the 30, 40, 50, 60 or even 70 or more cows.

These may seem very small and unimportant requests but they are very important so far as the farmers of rural Ireland are concerned. The same applies so far as pig production is concerned. Because of exhorbitant prices of feeding stuffs in most of the pig producing counties, in particular Cavan, Longford, Westmeath, Cork, many farmers went out of pig production altogether. Many of the sows were sent for slaughter. There has been a significant drop in the numbers of sows. That has put many small farmers completely out of business. Until recently unless a farmer had ten sows he would not get any grant for construction of any type of housing for his animals. That is being amended now. Every encouragement should be given to the small farmer. There is a tendency for big units. In my own county there are units of 1,000 sows and even 2,000 sows. These units provide some employment but they are not as useful as the smaller units that would be spread over a large area and would help people to maintain a reasonable standard of living.

The bovine TB eradication and the brucellosis schemes are very pertinent issues and ones that must be speeded up under the EEC conditions. The year 1977 is the deadline and it is time for us to be getting a move on so as to ensure that when the deadline comes our animals will be in a healthy condition and fit to be received in these countries. That was the thinking in Fianna Fáil's time behind all the schemes that were introduced. It is very important that our animals should be healthy and able to sell in the foreign markets.

I want to comment now on the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. On a few occasions I advocated that out of the money provided by the Department, some proportion should be earmarked for individual post-offices in the hands of private individuals. The local post office is one place people visit when they ate in this country either as tourists or as returned immigrants. A grant should be given to post office owners every couple of years for the purpose of redecorating their premises. The post office, like the pub, is a place from which people bring away impressions of our country. Its upkeep should be as important as spending money on colour brochures and so on. Although the best room in the house is usually given over to the post office, the return to the proprietor is very meagre. These people work very hard during very long hours especially in areas where there is no automatic exchange. It is very hard for them to keep their temper sometimes but, to their eternal credit, let me say they have been very courteous and helpful. I should like to see something being spent on the post offices although the State does not own the buildings.

There is another facet of our economy that has almost faded out of existence during the two years since the Coalition Government came into office and that is the promotion of industries—a policy embarked on long ago by Fianna Fáil. It was an attempt made by the then Government to try to ensure that people who would be leaving the land and would find some employment in their own areas instead of drifting towards the towns. There were grants available for helping to provide factories in small towns and in rural areas. An effort was made to encourage people to come in here and promote industry. There is not sufficient confidence for many of them to come here and set up industries at present. That is a pity because we have good workers in this country. We have highly-educated and skilled people and AnCO provide training facilities. We have an agreeable climate, cheerful people and a reasonably good infrastructure in many of our towns. Every effort should be made to encourage people, especially Americans and Russians, to start industries here as a jumping-off ground into the EEC.

The Government should get off their knees and make a determined effort to generate confidence in our ability to do things. This can only be done if the Government themselves are displaying confidence in their own ability. They are not doing that at present. I instanced the case of where they are asking the Employer-Labour Conference and the ICTU to settle these differences on behalf of the Government. That is not correct. The Government should lead on all occasions and make their own decisions. Everybody else should toe the line and fall in. That is what a Government are elected for. Any delay in the making of critical decisions or making unpopular decisions will not add to the credibility of the Government and will not give the confidence that is necessary to ensure the people will have confidence in them, particularly those with money to invest. If they do not have confidence they will not invest their money.

During the last two years the Government should have made some attempt to curb inflation. Senator Halligan spoke on radio one Sunday about breaking the link with sterling and of the advantages this would have and so on. I suggest to the Government that they should get this superman to bring about these advantages for us. There is no use in letting inflation run rampant because, while the Government are lacking in making decisions, they are causing havoc all over the country. Small children who were fond of saving and were trained in the national savings movement now realise that the money they save will be useless. It will have dropped in value from 25 or 27 per cent in 12 months. There is no incentive for people to save under circumstances such as that. There is not much incentive for anybody to save in such circumstances. It is not encouragement for people to take out assurance policies. At the end of the assurance term, they will find they would have done better had they been purchasing goods with their money. The wise ones now borrow money from the banks and invest it in property.

In circumstances such as these it is not easy for the ordinary citizen to have confidence. I would not like to see a loss of confidence on the part of children or of those who wish to save money to provide for the rainy day. This is what every good citizen should be doing but they should be encouraged by the Government to save. Young people should be encouraged to help to provide for themselves. They should be encouraged to have a good civic spirit. They should be able to be assured that there would be work provided for them so that they could marry and raise their families in some comfort. They should be able to be independent and to provide for themselves.

There are 103,000 persons unemployed. This is a formidable figure in mid-summer when people could be working. An enormous effort is needed by the Government to try to lower this figure by at least 10,000 or 20,000. There are huge sums being paid out in pay-related benefits. There is a big loss of revenue from social insurance contributions and it would be in their own interests for the Government to try to remedy the situation.

The measures taken by the Minister for Finance will help only in a small way towards solving our problems. When the Minister went abroad to the Arab countries looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, I do not know what happened. We did not get any indications, nor has anybody leaked the information, of the amount of money he brought home with him from these countries. But we were led to believe from the publicity given to his trip, that he was going out, not on a fact-finding but on a money-finding mission. We were told that the sheiks and oil barons would invest enormous sums in this country which could be used for capital development and to get our people back to work. I would have no objection at all to that, even if he had to borrow the money. If at all possible he should get the people back to work and have them more content rather than having them hanging around without employment.

There are poor prospects for the 50,000 school leavers coming on the employment market this year. We are very perturbed about this situation. None of us likes to see people unemployed. There are times when any Government may be in difficulties but this situation has been going on for too long. This Government have been in office for more than two years and the glare of publicity that surrounded them has died down. They should have got down to solid bedrock by now. When they took over the finances of the State were in good shape. There were no debts and everything was going well. Now we have this deficit of millions of pounds. There is a headline in one of today's newspapers which reads: "Huge Rise in State Deficits". There are many such scare headlines and one could quote for hours from various newspapers and have nothing but gloomy news. It is wrong for the Government to have these huge deficits and not to be making some attempt to balance their budget.

We have had four budgets since this Government took office. We have been told that we may have another in the autumn. Most people have to pay rates and taxes all through their lives and they accept these. But if they feel they are being burdened unnecessarily because of inefficiency, because of lack of initiative, because of lack of leadership in decision making, they will become suspicious; they will begin to grumble and eventually the Government will find themselves in trouble. It is wrong for the Government to wait until their house falls down around them before they make any attempt at repairing it.

Anyone can see that the whole structure of the State is about to collapse. The Government should try to patch it up in every way possible. If they cannot do this they should get out and let in a Fianna Fáil Government, who handed the economy over to them in such good shape in 1973. A Fianna Fáil Government in 1951 and in 1957 had to go back into office and clean up a mess left by a Coalition Government on these two occasions.

It is no great pleasure for me to repeat this litany and it is not very pleasant for the Government to have to listen to it. None of us can be happy with the present situation. A doctor would get a history of a case. Then he would diagnose what was wrong with the patient and prescribe some medicine. The Government should treat the present situation in this way. There is danger that the patient will die unless something is done fairly soon. No country, particularly a small country such as ours, can afford to have 103,000 of its people unemployed.

The situation must be rectified. The Government should be able to instil in us a sense of pride as a nation. We must be reasonably Irish in our own attitudes. Everything possible should be done to keep Irishmen in their jobs. We should all try to buy as much Irish goods as we can, drink as much Irish whiskey as we can afford and do the very best we can to ensure that Irish workers will be kept in their jobs. The workers have a responsibility also. The trade unions should make their members aware of their responsibilities. Trade unions are very good. It is easier to negotiate with trade union bodies than with individuals. The trade union movement here has been built up in very difficult circumstances. At one time the workers were trampled on and they had no rights whatsoever. We should all be very grateful to the men responsible for building up the trade union movement. They fostered in us a national outlook, an outlook which we should not abandon lightly.

If we have not faith in our own ability, in our own future, we cannot expect anybody else be they in Britain or elsewhere to have much respect for us. We should have a pride in our culture, in our language, in our music and in everything Irish. I was in Cork on a few occasions and I was amazed at the respect the people there had for everything that was made in Cork. Recently on a "Late, Late Show" Gay Byrne while interviewing somebody from Cork asked: "What about the Cork accent?" and the man said: "What accent: is it not you who have the accent?" Cork people have set us a very good example and if people followed their example we would have a better country. It is not enough to provide work for our people. We must have confidence in the goods we produce. We should be able to wear Irish-made shoes and Irish-made clothes with pride. The men who establish shoe and clothing factories here could have invested their money in some other country. The nation owes these investors something because they are providing much-needed employment. In some industries it costs £2,000, £3,000 or more of the taxpayers' money to put one man in employment. Small industries in rural Ireland often give nine, ten and 20 people employment but they get only meagre grants. The small factory in particular should be supported if at all possible in all the small rural towns because it is there you have the houses, the families, the schools and the churches. Vast problems are created in cities and towns when many people drift into them from the country because of the need for extra water supplies, housing and so on.

In the areas where factories have closed people are very concerned and perturbed. Every effort should be made to ensure that these people who have lost their jobs will be re-employed. The IDA are doing a tremendous job in that respect but the best yardstick by which to measure them would be the number of people they have put in employment in each area. In my area the situation is rather difficult because of our geographical position. In Cavan-Monaghan we have been looking for a grant to make a regional road to the ports but it has not come up yet nor is there any hope of it, so far as I know. Money from capital expenditure should be provided to ensure that the people in Cavan, Monaghan and Leitrim would have some way of getting manufactured goods to the city. There is an excellent road through Country Meath, but the Dublin road presents a problem.

The difficulty is that when we come up near the city, especially through Mulhuddart, Clonee and places like that we often think that we are back around Killeshandra or Newtowngore or some of these places. Every other road leading into the city has been widened and repaired and the Minister for Local Government and the Dublin Country Council should start on this area immediately, otherwise, we may have to go through County Louth to Greenore and Drogheda. There are excellent ports there.

There are many other aspects I could touch on but I shall not bore the House other than to say that I consider it a very serious matter to have a deficit of £241 million in the budget. Money is very dear and borrowed money must be paid for. It is important that a Government should budget to the best of their ability, but this Government have not been giving a good account of their stewardship since they took office. Without mincing words, they have been a disaster. They have been the third Coalition disaster. On every occasion, strange to say, they have left the same tracks behind them. I do not know whether it is that they are not blessed with good luck or good Ministers, but it is a remarkable coincidence that on each occasion when they left office there were thousands of people unployed.

Individually, they are, I am sure, decent men, but collectively as a Government they seem to be a disaster. People used to think long ago that it was unfair to criticise a Coalition Government. But, by their fruits you shall know them and you can judge their performance on these three occasions and see this remarkable similarity. It is no pleasure to see so many people unemployed—103,000 people.

It is no pleasure to see the difficulties in which we find ourselves. We cannot attribute all of this situation to the oil shortage or to the sheiks or the Arabs. Perhaps it would be much more appropriate to saddle the little sheiks or Arabs of this Cabinet with the blame. Collectively and individually as a Cabinet and as a Government they are not capable of facing up to the magnitude of the task that confronts them and the Irish nation. They should take the people into their confidence. They are talking about open government and open broadcasting and government of all the talents and all these various slogans but they are not very good at providing the finished article and that is what really counts.

It behoves all of us, and particularly the Government, to face the task before us, to take decisions and not to be asking trade unions or anybody else to make the decisions that the Government should make. Let the Government come out and give leadership to the country and restore the confidence that is so much lacking in our people at present, confidence in their own ability to do things, confidence in the Government to provide employment for them, confidence in the workers to produce the finished article, although this is on a par with or even better than anything that is imported, confidence in the investors to invest their money at home rather than running across to the Six Counties or England or somewhere else with it. That is the type of confidence necessary.

These silent men who have plenty of money will not say anything in public but, like the Arabs in the dead of the night, will sneak off with the money into some other country and deprive the Irish people of the benefit of it. While the workers are tremendously important the man who provides the employment is tremendously important too. He is the man who takes the financial risks. I hold no brief for the tycoons or wealthy people but at the same time I fully realise that there are many individuals in this country, people who started from small beginnings, who probably never had a holiday in their lives, who have worked hard to maintain industry and, consequently, to provide employment. There is no point in chasing these people for wealth tax because to do so would probably put them out of business.

Incidentally, on the subject of foreign countries, our Minister for Foreign Affairs has been around quite a lot in the last six months as chairman of the EEC. I shall not criticise him in any way. As an Irishman, I was glad to see one of our Ministers becoming chairman of that body because, after all, we are partners in it and it was a great honour for this country. I am also glad to see that the Coalition Government allowed the Russians to establish an embassy in this country.

I remember, when I was here before, there was a great furore because Mr. Frank Aiken, who was then Minister for External Affairs was advocating the admission of Red China into the United Nations. That was far-seeing on his part. The performance in this case has vindicated the far-sightedness of Mr. Frank Aiken on that occasion.

Apart from that, things are far from good. If the Government say we have a part to play, the small investor who is creating employment, the small farmer who is to be encouraged to stay in his holding, these are the ways we will get the people back to employment. In my travels around the country I find very few people working on roads and there is an enormous amount of work to be done, rivers drained and so on. Money should be borrowed and invested in useful works which will be of benefit to the people and take the 103,000 people off the unemployment list, I would urge the Government to set the example and tighten their belts, to tell the people what exactly is the position. If the Government are not fit to deliver the goods they should tell the people. After all we are living in a democracy. If the Government cannot govern they should go out and we will do our best to replace them even though the task will be difficult. I am sure we would make a success of it just as we did in 1951 and 1957.

I have been sitting here for some three-and-a-half hours listening to the contributions of Senator Lenihan and Senator Dolan. I must say I was as confused at the end of their discourses as I was at the beginning. Both Senator Lenihan and Senator Dolan referred to a very substantial Government deficit and took the Government to task for allowing a sum of £241 million to accummulate. In the next breath Senator Dolan trotted out a list of bog roads and roads between Cavan and Dublin which required heavy expenditure to put them in proper order. He also spoke about other very desirable projects. Unfortunately there are only two ways of getting money—perhaps there is a third way of which Senator Lenihan and Senator Dolan know, and if so, they should inform the House—by taxation, by taking it from the people, or by borrowing. If schemes to provide very necessary employment are being put forward by Members of the Opposition, they should, as a corollary, say where the money will come from. They cannot have it both ways.

It may be very good politics and certainly entertaining to listen to all the defects of successive Coalition Governments and voice the hope that the present National Coalition Government will somehow fade out of office and let Fianna Fáil back in office to take up the cudgels, presumably, to present a programme for vast employment, finding the money from sources other than borrowing or by taxation. I would almost be inclined to advise the Government to resign so as to allow those miracle workers to come in and do it. This just cannot be done. Like every other country at present we are experiencing a severe financial crisis. Senator Lenihan was quite right in adverting to that matter. The present Government are no different from the British or any other Government in the EEC at present in having to restrict desirable expenditures for the very simple reason that the funds are not there.

Senator Lenihan accused the Government of buying popularity in the 1973 budget. I do not know if Senator Lenihan was serious or if he was just putting on an act. If the accusation had any substance it must be the first time in political history, certainly in this country, that a Government sought to buy popularity after a general election and not before it. I can recall, in 1963, before two very important by-elections, when the late Seán Lemass, probably one of the ablest Ministers this country has had and one of its best politicians, saw the green light in very unfavourable economic circumstances. As a result of expenditure suddenly allocated, right, left and centre, he won two crucial by-elections. That was the beginning of what might be called the green light policy which still seems to have persisted up to the present day.

The Government's strategy has been fairly clear, notwithstanding the difficulties that have arisen over the past two years and which were quite unforeseen by anybody two-and-a-half years ago.

The 1973 budget, in accordance with the programme which the National Coalition partners presented to the country and on which they were elected, had for its primary objective the adjustment of social inequalities in our society, bringing into the social welfare code certain categories of persons who up to then had been neglected. Those were the first steps taken in a period of prosperity, where the future looked— if not rosy—at least secure. I do not think anybody at that time objected to the idea that certain people living in disadvantaged circumstances, the underprivileged, should get a fair share of the new EEC cake; that certain categories such as unmarried mothers, deserted wives and so on should be brought within the ambit of the national social welfare code. These objectives were stated clearly at the time of the last general election and were honoured in the letter.

The first steps were also taken to redraft the income tax code. I would be somewhat critical that further steps have not been taken in that regard, but at least the first tentative steps were taken to redraft the code which had been left unchanged for many years prior to that. Benefits accrued to wage earners, to widows and so on. These people got some encouragement from the fact that the Government were trying to do somewhat better for them than had been the case in the past. Looking back on the 1973 budget it is fair to say that it was, in large measure, a social budget.

In 1974 a different situation had arisen. We had the oil crisis and the Government were then faced with a very serious situation. They had either to ride out the enormous increase in costs which was brought about by the oil crisis—a quadrupling of imported oil prices. When the country was dependent to a large extent on imported oil—or else take what might be called some orthodox economic measures. The Government decided—and nobody at the time objected to the first substantial measure of deficit financing— that the Minister should budget for a very substantial deficit on the assumption that if that was not done we would have very high unemployment and very severe difficulties in the economy.

There were two schools of thought at that time. One thought the Minister had budgeted for too great a deficit in his budget and the second, and equally vocal group thought he was too timid on that occasion. If I remember rightly, the Opposition were divided in their views on the budget along these lines. At that time, in addition to the difficulties they were undertaking, there were fairly firm forecasts made that while 1974 would be a difficult year the problems would eventually be eased out and with 1975 coming we could expect to see an upturn in the economy. The general economic measures taken at that time were taken in the belief that these forecasts would turn out to be correct. We were not the only country that thought like that. The United States, Great Britain and other far larger economies than ours were confident that before the end of 1974 and certainly in early 1975 most of the world economies would take an upward swing.

Last May when the national wage agreement, to which reference has been made in this debate, was agreed between the employers and the workers, there were some criticisms that the total package was on the high side. But there was no strong resistance to it apart from certain individual employers and industrialists who genuinely felt they could not afford to pay it. The overriding consideration throughout the country was that at least the policy of agreed national wage settlements had been continued. The general feeling throughout the country was that something had been contracted for a period of 12 to 18 months ahead, irrespective of doubts which individual business people and industrialists might have with regard to the size of the total package agreed.

What is clear and what has changed the whole situation is the fact that the optimistic projections made by economists, politicians and others in this country and elsewhere have not turned out to be correct. It now seems pretty clear that there will not be any upswing not only in our own economy but generally in European economies, and possibly in the United States, before the second half of 1975, and an even more pessimistic forecast put it well into 1976. Obviously we are going to have to do some rethinking. That rethinking began a few days ago when the Minister introduced the second budget this year.

It is the duty of an Opposition to offer constructive and, if necessary, severe criticism of any measures brought in by a Government whatever their composition. In criticising the content of the present budget the Opposition should be realistic. If they are critical about it they should offer alternative proposals. So far in this debate we have not heard any constructive or realistic proposal. I am still hopeful that before the debate ends—presumably tomorrow evening—we will have some alternative proposals coming forward. It is easy to talk about the Coalition Government getting out and letting Fianna Fáil back to see what they would do. The public generally might be encouraged along those lines if they had some idea what an alternative Government would do. So far we have no tangible evidence of the new and fresh thinking of the Fianna Fáil Party.

The great danger today, as the Minister pointed out—and I think Senator Lenihan and Dolan adverted to it—is undoubtedly inflation. Inflation has this country by the throat at the present time. It is the greatest possible danger to employment in very facet of our economy. It is the greatest danger to the maintenance of the living standards of the people. Unfortunately, being human, people do not believe what they hear until it actually happens. While it is easy to say that there is a lack of leadership—Senator Lenihan said we wanted strong leadership and so forth to tell the people what should be done—I do not know of any politician, political party or any Government that has ever carried out any policy in advance of public opinion. Most shrewd politicians know that the cardinal error in politics is to be right at the wrong time. While economists, academics and intellectuals can preach to politicians and Government about what should be done, in the final analysis it is the people who stand for election and get elected by the public who have to carry out the programmes on which they were elected, not the academics who offer advice and suggest that things can be done overnight. It is impossible to carry a programme through unless the public mind is conditioned and receptive to the policies put forward. That is the cardinal fact of public life.

The time has arrived when all of us, whether business people, farmers or trade unionists, have accepted the fact and come to realise that inflation is the greatest danger facing this country. It has become doubly dangerous now because with the exception of the United Kingdom our continental partners in the EEC have all now reduced or are on the way to reducing the rate of inflation in their countries to acceptable levels. In some cases it has been reduced to one-third of our rate of inflation. Unless we take very stringent and very quick measures not only will our exports be priced out of the market but our very home market will be endangered by cheaper imports. It is not sufficient, although it might seem a simple and quick solution, to say we will stop the import of shoes, cars and a hundred and one things that are coming in at competitive prices. That is not the answer. The answer is to make our own products competitive in quality and price, not just to resist imports but to go out and sell our products against the products of other countries in their countries. That is the only way we can survive as an economic entity. It is the only way we can build up industry and employment. Any other short-term measure is purely a temporary expedient and eventually you pay the price doubly for these expedients.

There is a further danger. I do not want to be too repetitive about it. I live close to an industrial estate which has played a major part in employment in this country, the Shannon Free Airport Industrial Estate, where a number of industries—this does not apply only to Shannon—were established under certain circumstances over the past ten, 15 or 20 years. It was cheaper to manufacture in Ireland and send back to the country of the parent company, whether it be the United States, Germany or elsewhere. The Germans, Americans, French and others found out that by manufacturing in Ireland in one of our industrial estates, Shannon or elsewhere, they had a cost advantage and good, reliable, intelligent labour which was easily trained and adaptable, and that including the freight to the United States they were still competitive in terms of cost in the foreign country's home market. That advantageous position has been largely eroded and the situation is now rapidly coming about where it is as cheap for the American, the German or the Frenchman, as the case may be, to manufacture in his own country as to manufacture in a subsidiary company in Ireland and then transport the goods across the Atlantic or the English Channel. That is a serious matter for us.

If we are going to regain the cost and other advantages we had in past years, obviously we shall have to take drastic action to do it. The Government have taken the first step. Bringing back subsidies and reducing the price of certain essential foodstuffs, butter, bread, milk, travel, electricity, and gas, may appear to some to be only a small step, but we should look at it from the point of view of the poorer section of our community or indeed the housewife, the battered housewife, I suppose you could call her, who has had to face over recent years rising prices with the depressing feeling that those increases would go on and on interminably. The mere fact of bringing that to an end and reducing certain essential foodstuffs will have tremendous psychological effect on the whole country. It is getting right back into the homes of the people, people with large families and people whose husbands are out of work at the present time. That is only a temporary measure but we must get to the root of inflation and certainly stop it at the appalling rate at which it is running at present. We all have reason to be optimistic that the trade unions will accept the situation, that they will see as we are all beginning to see now— and I suppose the politicians have been blind as anybody else in this regard— that if we do not do something positive and do it quickly the country is going to be in an appalling mess.

Reference was made by the two speakers who preceded me to the high level of unemployment. I fully agree that having over 100,000 people unemployed in a small country like this is disastrous both for the economy and for the individuals concerned and for their families, and is having serious side-effects far outside the ambit of the people actually concerned. The sooner we do something about that the better. We are not the only country in the world suffering from high unemployment. In fact the rates of increased unemployment in some of our continental partner countries is even greater than in this country. We have as a primary objective to tackle this enormous rate of inflation. No individual can do it. The Government cannot do it. The politicians cannot do it. Business people, industrialists, or trade unions cannot do it on their own. It requires in a very real sense a national partnership. It is a hackneyed term about which snide remarks have been made, but in fact it is a community, whether they are a parish or an entire country, working together, believing that they have got to do something, and the sooner they get down to tackle the job the better. It is the cumulative will of all the people that will tackle inflation and will overcome it in the end or else it will not happen at all.

I agree with Senator Dolan that at this time we could very well practise a policy of "sinn féin." I do not mean that in the very narrow sense. I cannot help feeling that we could make more use of our people and our raw materials, give greater encouragement to Irish-based industries, perhaps some of them in their second, third or fourth generation here. I want to agree wholeheartedly with Senator Dolan particularly about small industries. It may not be generally realised that three-quarters of the industries in this country employ less than 50 people. Most of them are family-owned businesses or else they are a partnership. Many of them are there for generations. They will never leave the country even when times are bad; they will stick it out like the small farmers because they have been in it for generations. They have an attachment to their business, like the farmer has to his farm, that nothing will break even in the most adverse times. They are the people who should receive encouragement because they are not in a position to expand out of their own resources, part from the fact that taxation alone makes it almost impossible to accumulate capital nowadays. Out of every £1 they make they have got to give the Government 50 per cent. They have to keep something aside for further development of the business and obviously they have to take some reward themselves. A very strong case could be made for having another look at this whole system of encouragement to small business to expand.

It is particularly important in the context of this small country of ours that small industries should be made viable and should be encouraged in every possible way to expand their operations. Even some form of taxation that would ensure that the first, say, £5,000 made by a small firm would be at a lower rate of taxation, some form of differential encouragement by way of taxation or otherwise, and a larger scale of grants than would be applicable to the bigger firm. Although I am very much in favour of encouraging outside capital being used to establish industries here, it makes my blood boil when big multi-national, wealthy firms who do not need the money get substantial grants, while small firms like the majority of the firms in this country just cannot afford, even with grants, to develop out of their own resources. They are in a unique situation. They deserve very careful and very sympathetic consideration from any Government. I am talking above politics in this regard.

I would like to see an all-out effort to develop native fuels. Turf is the obvious one, but there must be some coal resources also in the country undeveloped as well as oil, gas and others. An all-out drive should be made to develop these and to make us less dependent on imported sources of fuels or energy. It may not be generally realised but quite a small oil find off the coast of Ireland would leave us no longer dependent on imported oils and if there was any significant find at all, there could be quite a substantial export trade which would transform our economy.

Another thing I would like to suggest—I am sure I would have Senator Lenihan's and Senator Dolan's support in this regard and in fact that of the members of all parties in this Chamber—is that the Government would take a hard look at the countries with which we have a gross imbalance in trade. It is easy to say, if you are selling £1 million worth to X country and importing £5 million worth, you should tell them either they take £4 million worth more from you or else you do not do business. Obviously that just would not work, because we would not be importing any tea from India or coffee from some other place. A lot more could be done and, particularly with the disadvantage now with regard to the hard currencies other than sterling, I think a number of these imports could be switched to the sterling area, to Great Britain, who, after all, notwithstanding the harsh things that Senator Dolan says from time to time, are still our best customers and we certainly are one of their best customers. There are many Irish boys and Irish girls working in English factories and I would rather buy the goods manufactured in England where they employ Irishmen than buy them from Timbuctoo or somewhere else where no Irish could have hope of getting employment.

Again turning to the development of our own resources, for one reason or another, there has been a substantial falling off in tourism. I would like to suggest that, notwithstanding the difficult times, there is tremendous potential for tourist development in the country. We have a unique capacity to meet tourists. It does not cost anything to be nice to them. That is one thing we can offer, whatever other failings we may have. I have met a great number of people, Americans, British and others, who have come to Ireland for the first time and intend coming back again. Provided conditions are acceptable and our present troubles pass away, many people would rather come to this country than go elsewhere, even though we do not normally have the sort of weather we are having now. They find the Irish friendly, hospitable, kind and good-natured. These are qualities that cost nothing. We have an abundance of good attributes.

We should take a hard look at some of the semi-State institutions which are very heavily subsidised by the taxpayers to see if we could launch a vast scheme of capital works. I am talking about major road works, infrastructures, port development. We give our ports virtually nothing. We are an island nation and the worst financed section is our port industry. We spend millions of pounds subsidising our railways, we spend millions on the roads, we spend millions on air services; but we spend virtually nothing on our ports. We are an island country that must be dependent, with our open economy, on efficient ports if we are to attract the best possible shipping interests.

I should like to comment on decentralisation, particularly in regard to two Departments. One is the Department of Social Welfare. I think most members of local authorities would agree that there is too much concentration of the control and distribution of social welfare benefits in the central authority. There could be a good deal of decentralisation. We have regional health boards and we have country and city councils and so on which could do much more of this work and make decisions on the spot, and give the recipient the benefit quickly. Those who are members of local authorities have experienced the appalling delays that take place from time to time. There was a time two years ago when there was a 'flu epidemic and the social welfare benefits could not be paid out due to staff shortages in the Custom House. That is all wrong. The social welfare code generally would be far more efficiently and far more humanely carried out at local level.

Housing is something that could be decentralised to a far greater degree. It should be sufficient for the central authority to decide what block grants it is going to make available to the various housing authorities, give them the grants and let them get on with the job. The necessity of sending plans to Dublin to have them approved or disapproved, as the case may be, also involves delay. While the central authority is a co-operative to a very large degree, they could allow the local housing authorities more freedom to decide on the type of their houses and get on with the building of these houses, which are now so badly needed.

In conclusion, Senator Lenihan quoted from the booklet, Review of 1974 and Present Outlook, produced in June, 1975. Paragraph 77 on page 27 sums up what I have been saying for the last 20 minutes and it says:

It is a matter for concern that inflation has changed its character between 1974 and 1975. In 1974, price rises were mainly due to external influences but in 1975 inflation in Ireland will be largely generated domestically, particularly as a result of developments in employee incomes. Planned income increases in 1975, superimposed on 1974 income levels for non-agricultural employees, will give pay increases far in excess of any possible productivity growth and beyond the capacity of the economy to bear.

In talking about incomes, I do not think we should specify only wages and salaries. If there is to be any abating or moderating of incomes it should bear right across the board. If we ask the trade unions and their members to moderate or defer increases under the national wage agreement, it should be part of the package that all of us who have incomes—whether incomes from dividends or incomes from business or other sources—should equally bear the burden. As I already said, if inflation, the greatest danger to our economy is to be tackled and contained, it will be done on the basis that all the people share in the necessary sacrifice.

I think it was the Duke of Wellington who said, when he looked at his troops before the Battle of Waterloo, "I do not know what they will do to the French but they certainly put the fear of God in me". Listening to our political leaders and listening to the pathetic little apologia from the Minister for Finance, this obituary for a third Coalition, I do not think that I have ever known a time when the economy was so completely out of control of the Government in charge.

Reading the pathetic little eight-page document and the admissions implicit in it and the pathetic appeals to the worker to moderate his wage demands and to accept a reduction in his living standards, it is very difficult to think that this is the same man we listened to two or three years ago, buoyant, full of extravagant claims and promises, the economic spokesman for this new Government which everybody, commentators, political pundits, all agreed that this was the most talented Government we were ever likely to see, and certainly that we had ever had in the State.

Where has all the talent gone? There is not a Department of State no matter which one you look at, leaving aside the disaster which is quite obviously facing us here in the Department of Finance, to which they can turn and say: "This at least we achieved. This advance was made while we were in Government." Of the three disastrous Coalitions this surely must be the one which will be remembered as easily the most damaging, the most pretentious in its claims and remarkable in its failures to honour those claims in action. Take the Department of Education, with cutbacks in spending and the situation of third level education. One might ask what use is education for youngsters who are not going to get work. The Minister for Health—a Labour Minister regrettably and Leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Corish—told us, as I now note here in a curious phrase that he did not believe in policies of confrontation. He was referring to the medical profession and we know what has happened—precisely nothing at all. The health services, hospitals, buildings, instead of the badly-needed expansion of the services at all levels, have been allowed to run down. Those who work in these services are told that we are not even going to maintain the level we have been providing up to the present.

In social welfare we know quite well that any advances or increases made have been totally negatived in the first place by the fact that the inflationary increase in prices has eaten away any advances that might have been given. Secondly, we have had the very ominous departure, as far as Labour are concerned, of the payment being taken away from the Central Fund and being pushed into insurance. This means the worker is paying more and more of his social welfare and the wealthy taxpayer is being protected from paying what in Labour terms should be his just dues to the less privileged in society.

The only thing one can say in listening to the Minister, Deputy Ryan, is that he appears to be a very frightened man. That is an advance; it is an advantage. At least he knows that what he was doing here today was appearing in the court of public opinion or in one of the parts of the national Assembly and making the declaration of a bankrupt, of a man who has to confess that he is bankrupt, that he cannot meet his liabilities to the community. This is what we listened to today. This is what they listened to in the Dáil the other day.

I have to say in my own defence that on the first time he spoke here so full of joie de vivre and euphoria I reminded him that was the way they began, and I predicted what I believed would be the way they would complete their term of office. This is the reason why I declined an opportunity to go back into the Dáil—so that I might be free to speak as I have done since this Government were formed. Despite their talent—and many of them are extremely talented men—despite their abilities, the policies they were following, that they must inevitably follow as the Labour Party is part of a Government dominated by a declared, honourably, repeatedly and continually honestly declared extremely conservative political party, Fine Gael, dedicated to the exercise of the dynamic of monopoly capitalism in attempting to create justice in our society, could not work. They have not worked: they never will work. The tragedy of this is that the main Opposition believe that in some wonderful, miraculous way or another we will get social justice as a by-product of the avarice, greed and selfishness of monopoly capitalism in operation. This is not a crisis of the Coalition in Dublin: this is the crisis of world capitalism, something which those of us who are socialists have been talking about for many years.

Part of me is delighted to see this day, to see the fact, to be here in public life at a time when I know that the Government are quite unable to meet the challenge of society and the demands of modern society with their economic policies. It does not really matter what the trade unions do about the national wage agreement, whether they agree to sell out or not—I will talk about that later on—all the oil-producing countries have to do is to put up prices again by another 10 per cent. Senator Kennedy, recently in the States, said it will be 37 per cent. That is all they have to do and anything done here, no matter what it is, will be wiped out overnight.

Of course, I must have a certain self-satisfaction in knowing after all these years that what I had felt to be true is being proved correct—that one cannot reconcile the capital aesthetic—wages are simply profits and dividends gone astray: dividends and profits are simply wages gone astray. This internal contradiction of capital for which there is no reconciliation is recognised by a growing third of the world which has already accepted that there is only a socialist answer for the social and economic policies of our society.

The only tragedy to me is—and it is written into this speech—that our people, the ordinary people, are going to suffer, men, women, their children and families. They will suffer because of the consistent, continual blundering and mishandling of our affairs by all the political parties since the State was formed, but particularly in recent years. It was not only those of us who were socialists who talked about the failure of private enterprise capitalism here. Most of us recall the famous CIO reports of Mr. Lemass which showed the inherent weakness of our affairs, the industrial base of our society, which was under-mechanised, badly managed, with poor export policies, failure to reinvest at a proper level, unwillingness to provide our workers with proper equipment in order to maximise profits and dividends. These documents written by members of various Government Departments are now ten or 15 years old. They foretold the collapse of monopoly capitalism in Ireland even if we had not had the great blows of the price rises.

It is extraordinary to hear people like the Minister for Industry and Commerce, Deputy Keating, people with very good understanding of social and economic matters generally, referring to the fact as if it had dawned on them for the first time that this was a small, open economy. It was always a small, open economy.

Indeed, it was this point that I raised with Deputy Keating when they were asking me to subscribe to their proposals about price control and about the control of the economy generally. This was the point I made to him and he knows as well as I do that you cannot control prices in a small monopoly-capitalist, open economy such as ours. It is wrong; it is dishonest; it is deliberately misleading the public to say that you can do these things. Either the Government knew they could not or they did not. No matter what way you look at it, they were dishonest or they were inept and incompetent and irresponsible.

These are the difficulties. It does not seem to have any meaning for them when they tell us that this is the position in Britain; this is the position in the United States; this is the position in many of the European countries. This is the position, in short, in virtuàlly all the great capitalist countries. They are all facing this last reality and above all, they are facing in some of these countries the problem of damping down the fires as the Minister for Industry and Commerce I understand says: "Let us keep the fires damped down." This, of course, refers to pay-related benefits. The fires are being kept damped down in some of the European countries and in the United States but it simply cannot go on and the Governments must know that. This, I imagine, is why the Government are frightened and particularly the Minister for Finance who is a very frightened man because it costs a hell of a lot of money to keep the fires damped down. What is it? A million pounds a week? How long can pay-related benefits mislead the worker into believing that life is not all that bad; that economic disaster, economic bankruptcy is months away or weeks away?

The Government talk of the new panacea, breaking the link with sterling. Over the years we have had these moves —free trade, tariff controls and the Control of Manufactures Act, the last one, of course being the great EEC myth that this was going to create prosperity for Europe: "To hell with the Third World, we will buy cheap from them and sell back to them and make a profit and we will be all right." This was economic imperialism and we, the Republic, which suffered so long under imperialism, became party to this as a result of the decision of both the parties to join the Community. We have become a member of this multi-national club: we will be looked after.

Did we not make the mistake of our lives? I recall the present Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy FitzGerald, telling us about price rises. I cannot quote him exactly but if he wants me to, I will look it up. I have done my homework and, as far as I can remember, these were his words: "I do not think prices should rise more than 10 or 15 per cent, if anything." Those were the halcyon days when everything was going to be all right in the garden and we would have plenty of money to burn because we were members of this imperialist or ex-imperialist group of communities.

We should have known: that is not the way they do things. We are a small country on the periphery of Europe and they have as little interest now in the Irish industries, no matter what their size, but particularly in the medium or smaller Irish industries, as Mansholt had in the small or medium-sized farmers. Do you remember what he said about them? He said that they were not necessary; that one had to have these large farms in order to be economically viable. It does not matter about the social consequences, the consequences in human terms. They do not matter. The planners in Brussels had a new idea for Ireland and we bought it. The industrialist bought it thinking that it just applied to the small or middle farmers, but it did not: it applied to him also. He is finding that out now in the bankruptcy courts.

How did they get into this mess? This deficit is a staggering total. It is a dreadful, terrifying, frightening total. Clearly the Minister has absolutely no control. Where is it going to lead? What has he done with the money? He is not a drinking man. He does not gamble. If he was an ordinary bankrupt and we were examining we would wonder whether he kept a blonde somewhere— fast women and slow horses. How did he find himself in this mess?

He turns to the worker then in order to bail him out. We did not get any information, and I hoped that we would, from Senator Russell. Senator Russell is a very talented person indeed, and a very skilled, successful and shrewd businessman. He told us about the need for sacrifices. He is supporting the Minister's plea for sacrifices from the workers. He ended his speech by telling us that there should be a massive capital investment programme. I did not like to interrupt him, but I suppose I should have interrupted him and asked him where the money was to come from, especially as he told Senator Dolan that there was no question of finding capital the way the money was going.

This brings me to the question of breaking the link with sterling. It is now a position in which there are two drowning men, the Brits and overselves, and if you want to you can cut the rope but both are going down anyway. It makes no difference who gets away from whom first because it appears, except on the most humiliating terms, neither the British nor the Irish economy can survive in the fundamentally erroneous way it is structured at present. Virtually nothing can save either of them short of a miracle. Who believes in miracles any more, even the EEC miracle?

I might say that the first time I ever talked about the link with sterling was 30 years ago, in 1948. At that time and since that time there could have been opportunities for considering the position of the link with sterling. Attempts should have been made to try to create independence for the Irish economy, but contrary to establishing independence for our economy we carried out the complete reverse in the establishment of the Control of Manufactures legislation which brought in the parent companies, mostly British, many of them American, most of them fair-weather friends, who are now baling out and leaving us because they are under pressure themselves and we are finding that, in fact, we are a very dependent, very poor open economy which we do not control any more.

This again is the product of the failure of successive Governments to follow through the real freedom for any community, not simply blowing people's heads off, bombing and shooting, but the establishment of real economic freedom in a community. We did not do that and now we are paying for it. It is too late to break the link with sterling. It makes no difference anyway if we do.

Listening to the Minister's very brief obituary notice, obviously one is attracted to the plea from the Minister to the worker to modify the national wage agreement, institutionalising as he does the link between incomes and consumer prices. He spoke of the increases which were beyond the economy's capacity to pay in the present economic difficulties. This is why I say to the Minister that he is a bankrupt, that he cannot meet his obligations. He is telling the worker: "I cannot pay your wages, I cannot pay my way and I must go into liquidation or else you must subsidise my ineptitude or my incompetence." This is what he is asking the worker to do. I sincerely hope —would that I were a trade union leader—that they will refuse to have anything to do with any serious adaptation or modification of the national wage agreement beyond possibly considering the 4 per cent reduction which may be brought about by the recent subsidies, although it is ominous to notice this morning that while it was hoped the price of all fuels would go down, in fact, the price of peat briquettes went up. This is more than likely what will happen in relation to the other subsidised items in the weeks and months ahead because there is no policy for the control of inflation in this statement by the Minister.

It is no good handing this across to the workers and saying: "You take a cut in your standard of living and we will survive." I sincerely hope there is no chance of that happening. The Minister is damned out of his own mouth, in his own speech on page 4, when he talked about

The deepening recession has been accompanied in many countries but not, unfortunately, in Ireland by quite remarkable success in curbing inflation.

Quite remarkable success in curbing inflation everywhere except here, everywhere except under his Government. Everywhere except under him there has been some, as he calls it, remarkable success in curbing inflation. Is it not interesting to notice that in this short speech the only appeal made in it for belt tightening, for restrictions in income, is to the worker. I was interested to note that Senator Russell in his concluding remarks suggested that it should be an all-round sort of operation. Dividend standstill, profit standstill, prices standstill, is that what Senator Russell meant? Are we going to freeze dividends and profits? If so, for how long—not simply put them into cold storage and take them out in two or three years time? Will there be any appeal for sacrifice on the part of those best able to make sacrifices, the already very wealthy among our society?

Why turn to the people least able to afford any sacrifices, the people who have been faced with rising prices but who have not been able to keep up? That is what the Government said they were going to do, something Fianna Fáil had failed to do, increase the standard of living because they are a Government of all these talents. Now we are not even going to have a standstill in our standard of living, a standard of living which we hear from the bureaucrats in Europe is the lowest standard of social welfare in Europe. As low as it is, the Government now want to bring it lower, a voluntary sacrifice on the part of the worker with no significant sacrifice being asked from those with the dividends and the profits.

Any increase which took place in the wages of the white-collar worker and the manual worker happened because he could not buy bread, butter, tea, sugar, milk, clothes, boots and shoes which he required for himself and his family unless he got that increase. He was not buying Mercedes, yachts or racehorses. He was buying the essentials which go into the housewife's basket. That is why the trade unions negotiated the national wage agreement and it was accepted that it was a just agreement for a settlement of their claim. If it was a just settlement, then to ask them to moderate it is to ask them to perpetrate an injustice on themselves and on their children. Why should they do it? Why should the worker make any attempt whatsoever to perpetuate this society in Ireland where 70 per cent of the wealth of the people belongs to 5 per cent of the people. In heaven's name, why is it that the workers are not doing everything they can, even with their bare hands, to pull down the whole structure of this society? What have they got to lose? All the countries of Africa and the Middle East, Morocco or Algeria, Libya, Egypt, an unending list of names, Angola, Mozambique, Portugal now in Europe; in Spain the trade union movement has gone Left; Italy, a magnificant victory for the Communist Party as a result of the intake of the 18 to 21-year-olds on the new voting register; even the backward right-wing conservative countries of Europe are beginning to understand that there is no good case for preserving these kinds of pacifist societies; there is nothing in it for them except hardship and sacrifice, blundering mistakes by successive Ministers for Finance in the various countries.

The solution of course is—Senator Russell did not say so—a freeze on profits, a freeze on dividends for ten years, a capital levy of 15 per cent to 20 per cent—the Minister for Finance said it the other night in his broadcast in which he disclosed an appalling number of facts about the economy: what has happened to the £47 million which is now £100,000, and various Government funds which appear to me to have been misappropriated by the Government in anticipation of this famous upturn that never came? The Minister said that because of the failure of investment by private enterprise, the Government had to step in. What he was saying was that there was no money in it for them and therefore they will not invest. He knows well that if there is no profit, if there is a freeze on profits, dividends, they will not accept that. He said in his opening speech:

It adversely affects business confidence and discourages investment thereby lessening job prospects.

Why is it that it is never considered by Ministers for Finance that I have listened to over the years to say to a businessman "You cannot have 12 per cent", or whatever it is? It is because he will be frightened away and you cannot do that because you need his money. But it is all right to turn around to the worker and say: "I want you to take less, I want you to lower your standard of living, I want you to moderate your demand."

According to those Ministers for Finance this will not have any effect on the worker at all because he is that stupid—is that what they think? —that he voluntarily takes a reduction in his standard of living in order to see that the enormous wealth and privilege of the 5 per cent minority in health, education, universities, beautiful schools with small classrooms, lovely houses and continental holidays and so on, will continue riding roughshod over the majority. How has it persisted for so long? This is the only thing I find so difficult to understand: why has the worker tolerated this kind of discrimination against his own people, his own children, in the schools, in the health services, in hospitals, in housing, and then the old people in their old age? Why does he continue to do it? As I have said before, so many countries in the world have rejected this concept of society that we can hope we have now got to the point in our own lives where it is being so clearly spelled out to them that the inescapable conclusion will be accepted by them and by the community generally that this monopoly-capitalist system in which they have put their faith over the years cannot bring them social justice in a just society.

I think the most distressing feature of this eight-page obituary to the demise of his Government or the Minister's decision to govern, is its incredible dishonesty, because he must know that the truth of the matter is that this kind of decision by him to say that there is nothing else we can do except increase taxes and reduce incomes, wages and salaries in order to keep going, is not true. I wonder what would Senator Russell reply if I had asked him where we were going to get the money in order to indulge in this capital development programme, because there must be such a capital development programme and the money must be found.

I sincerely hope the leadership of the trade union movement will refuse to accept Government on these terms and refuse to offer any sacrifices whatever on these terms, because it is not true to say that this is the only solution. It is not true that there is no money other than the money in the worker's pay-packets. This is an enormously wealthy country. We see the banks continuing to make great profits. We know that the banks have enormous capital reserves. Equally, so have the insurance corporations and building societies. There is a lot of fat in these various concerns in our society which could be lifted off them in order to see that if sacrifices are to be made those best fitted to make them do so first.

The banks, insurance corporations and building societies have plenty of money. I would simply take the banks, insurance companies and building societies into public ownership and use their capital as I saw fit for the development works talked about by various Senators—roads, house building, schools, colleges, hospitals, universities, endless opportunities for the creative kind of work to build up the social infrastructure of our society. There is enormous wealth unused and untouched. A pitiful £40 million at 12 per cent is totally inadequate compared to the amount which the banks can afford.

Even if we did not want to take them into public ownership the facts of the matter are that—I remember saying this to the Minister on the last occasion he was here, two or three years ago— Ireland is now for its size probably the richest little country in the world. It is unbelievable that a Government should come crawling in here on hands and knees through the Minister today and in the Dáil a few days ago, pretending that the State was in a position where it could not meet its commitments while at the same time there is the enormous wealth of the oil finds, the gas finds and in particular of the lead-zinc finds.

Deputy Keating said recently in an interview that our lead-zinc finds were the largest in Europe and one of the largest in the world, in Navan, not to mention Senator Russell's Silvermines and Tynagh. I find it difficult to believe that in the years ahead it will be possible to continue to conceal from the public this fact about the wealth that is there which belongs to the people, under our Constitution—many thousands of pounds. The only reason why the worker will be asked to make sacrifices and make his family suffer is because of the financial links between the Government, members of their political parties, members of the Opposition parties— their financial links and their financial loyalties first to monopoly capitalism, to the multi-national gas and oil companies and the great mining corporations. Their primary loyalty is to those people.

Their alleged loyalty to the ordinary people of Ireland is a subordinate and secondary consideration with them. This plea by them that the workers should make any sacrifice whatever is one which should be completely and totally rejected by the workers. The Government should be sent back and the scandalous behaviour of a Labour Minister, Justin Keating, should be sent back to undo the total betrayal of his socialist principles, made simply for office in this fifth-rate Government, in order to see that we get every penny out of that wealth except that which we pay to the men who dig it out for us.

I only hope that if the economic position here continues to deteriorate, and I feel that it must do so, because if they will not touch this wealth they cannot continue to pay the pay-related benefits, then we must get the same kind of revolutionary reaction from the worker as we have seen in Portugal, Italy and, we are very hopeful, in the next two years in Spain, revolutionary actions reflected in so many of the emerging third world countries; the demand for socialism and the revolutionary change in the whole structure of our economy.

When it becomes impossible for the Government to pay this pay-related benefit bribe, this subsidy to inefficient industrialists to conceal the fact that they have not provided jobs at proper salaries and wages for the workers, then the unfortunate worker will have to suffer. In his suffering I hope he will raise his voice and demand that this enormous wealth belonging to him under our Constitution be taken back from these multi-national owners in the various countries, including our own. They are pillaging and plundering our country of this great wealth in the same way as they pillaged and plundered so many of the unfortunate emerging countries of Africa, the Middle East and Eastern countries.

The workers are being asked to take cuts not only in their wages and salaries but are also being told that what the Minister called "necessary services by Departments" will have to be reduced. How can one justify reducing or eliminating the provision of necessary services for the community—health, education, housing, social services, roads, communications, and so on? Which ones do you choose? In addition to being asked to reduce his wages, which will mean that he must tell his wife to go out and buy the essentials of life but not give her enough money to do it, the worker will be cutting down on such essentials as bread, butter, tea, sugar, milk and clothes for himself and his family. We have had this kind of thing before but never quite so bad. I recall Deputy Keating telling us at the Cork conference two or three years ago that we had reached a plateau in price rises now—this marvellous jargon that he uses, he was using even then. We remember when he refused to allow the price rise in cheese at that time when it went from 2p to 3p or something like that. Those were the days when he thought he was in control. I have talked like this on a number of occasions in this House and on many occasions in the other House. I am quite sure that most people will say: "This is Senator Browne again; he must say his piece and fortunately there are not many like him around." I would like to read into the record a statement from a group of people who are very different from Senator Noel Browne, the socialist. This is a quotation from Business and Finance, June 26th, 1975. It is headed “The cupboard is bare” and says in quotes:

It will be difficult to achieve economic growth this year.

It goes on to say:

Even when one allows for the characteristic blandness of official Government statements, this quotation from Review of 1974 and Present Outlook is a plain insult to the intelligence of the Irish people. The facts are simple and known to all. There will be no economic growth in 1975; in all likelihood, there will be a decline in the growth rate of 1% or worse. It is dishonest——

That is a harsh word from the people in Business and Finance

——to pretend that any other outcome is possible.

Civil Service temporising——

I resent that because of course the Ministers decide these things, not the Civil Service.

——is also displayed in the same document's statement that increases of the magnitude envisaged by the current national wage agreement "will make it difficult to maintain the competitiveness of our goods in domestic and international markets ...". Again the plain truth is that Irish industry is finding it, not just difficult, but impossible to maintain competitiveness in the face of the sort of pay awards it is currently obliged to make. Not just difficult, impossible.

The Government suffers from a collective speech impediment when it comes to stating these straightforward facts.

Then it goes on to talk about Richie Ryan devising this budget and says that:

The tragedy of our present crisis is not that we cannot see our way out, but that the Government does not have the nerve to dish out the medicine needed to start the patient's recovery. For cancer, the Government is prescribing aspirin.

That is their point of view. Effectively it is not very much different in its diagnosis of the case to the one which I put to the Minister. We have listened before to the Government telling us of the need for restraint, that little adjustment here and there will make everything all right with the economy. But what is really significant now is that they are not talking about any U-turns or upturns this year. It is pushed off until the end of next year, possibly the year after.

The big thing, I understand, will be the decision of President Ford to buy himself a second term in the White House by inflating the American economy. The repercussions will go all around the capitalist world and by virtue of this, we are given to understand that we should be a little better off. However, during all that time there will be 100,000 unemployed, which as everybody knows, is a completely misleading figure. It is at least 150,000 and probably, taking short time and youngsters who never registered, it could be 200,000 and if it is not, it will be. Our unemployment figures were always very high, 7 per cent or 8 per cent down through the years. The dreadful consequences to young people coming on the labour market, full of enthusiasm and ambition for the jobs they have in mind, are distressing.

Is it not fair comment then, when I talk about the Minister's few-page apologia, that it is a dishonest statement because he has concealed a fact from us? When he talks about depending on our own resources, is it not a fact that he has no intention of depending on our own resources, that he will not use our own resources, that he has signed away our own resources to these people outside the country who will take most of this wealth and that any we get we will buy back from them for the ESB and other concerns?

Deputy Keating makes this clear in an interview he gave in another magazine—rather, he did not make it clear because one could not make head nor tail of what he said—but he used the usual waffling clichés that he uses at such a rate. The general impression was that he would like to do so and so, he would like to be a militant socialist and so on but that he happens to be a member of this Government and therefore simply cannot realise his ambitions. This is a completely dishonest device on his part. He knew quite well, and Fine Gael left him in no doubt about this, that when he went into Government there would be no Labour Party socialist policies. Fine Gael were completely above board and honourable about these things. I have never attacked Fine Gael for their political views. They have a right to them. They are extremely conservative, very right wing, but I do not agree with them. I have never known any of them, with the possible exception of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, make any attempt to conceal the fact that they were right wing and conservative.

When this Coalition was established it was made clear to the Labour Party people, under their famous secret agreement which was never contradicted by the Labour leadership, that there would be no Labour policies whatever, particularly socialist policies, implemented by this Coalition Government, and they have stuck to that. They can go back to their supporters with their heads high. The Fine Gael people are completely honourable to their supporters: they have nothing to be ashamed of in political terms. What they tell the unemployed and these various other people I do not know, but that is their business. It is the Labour members of this Coalition who have so cravenly betrayed the whole Labour socialist idea and have left us in this position where there is a single individual, like myself, effectively impotent, much as I would like to think otherwise, making this case against private enterprise capitalism, trying to point out to these people that it is wrong for them to ask for sacrifices from the worker when we know quite well—we did not know it, say, ten or 15 years ago—that this is an enormously wealthy country.

The only result of asking sacrifices from the workers is to make richer the wealthy people like the Senator McGraths and the Senator Russells, and the even more wealthy men behind them in Canada, the United States and Britain, who come in, take the wealth and export it while we do the coolie work as happened in Zambia, Rhodesia, the Congo and all these places in the colonialist periods. It is incredible, since we are advanced in many ways, very much in advance of many of the unfortunate recently decolonised countries, that we should agree to do this and that our workers should agree to it.

In recent months there has been an awakening by the trade union leadership that they have a function which has been discarded by the political leadership. There is no left-wing political leadership in the Labour Party. They have all so totally betrayed their ideals that they have destroyed their credibility with the worker. It now rests almost exclusively with the trade union movement and the leadership of the trade union movement as to whether they remind the worker that he does not have to make sacrifices, that there is plenty of money, that we are a very wealthy country.

There is nothing unethical or immoral about using what is our wealth. It is not like taking money out of the bank, although I have no objection to taking money out of the bank because all profit is simply unpaid wages. It should have gone to the worker anyway but those who might have qualms about taking into public ownership, a bank, an insurance corporation or building society, need have no such qualms in respect of our mineral wealth. It is ours already under our Constitution. It now rests with the trade unions as to whether the worker is to go through this terrible Gethsemanae of suffering which I believe those who think it possible to make the capitalist system work will lead us through. These are decent men like everybody here but they suffer from this doctrinaire conviction that it is possible to make the monopoly capitalism work. It is not. This is where the Labour movement have failed the worker so totally. It should be saying we were right about the Common Market, that it was a disaster to join the Community and that it was a disastrous decision too, to go into Coalition with Fine Gael.

The struggle has passed over to the trade union movement. I only hope that they will honour their great responsibility and great privilege to defend the interests of the Irish worker against the attacks of these people—capitalists, businessmen, industrialists, bankers.

There was one comment, which was very enlightening, from Deputy Keating when he came back recently from the Soviet Union. He was met at the airport and one of the commentators asked him about inflation in the Soviet Union. For once, Deputy Keating dropped this appalling evasive technique he has developed in order to mislead. He said: "There is virtually none." When asked what is the position about unemployment in the Soviet Union, once again, Keating said——

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

It would be normal Parliamentary procedure to refer to the Deputy as Minister for Industry and Commerce.

I beg your pardon— Deputy Keating. I think what I have said other than that about him is very much more offensive. He was asked what about unemployment in the Soviet Union and he gave exactly the same short answer, surprisingly for him, that there is none. Yet, the message of this appears to have been lost on him and unfortunately on all of his colleagues. It is the record of the socialist countries, not only the Soviet Union but most of the established socialist countries, that there is no inflation and no unemployment.

Debate adjourned.
The Seanad adjourned at 10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 2nd July, 1975.
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