It is proposed to take business in the following order: Nos. 1 (resumed), 2 and 3.
Order of Business.
I am not entirely happy about the order in which business is being taken today. I am pleased that item No. 3 has been reached and it would be appropriate to pay tribute to the efforts of the Leader of the House. It is the first of four different administrations which I have suffered under which has made definite and constructive attempts to reach Private Members' Motions and to run them on schedule. I should record my pleasure that we are getting to Private Members' Motions, some of them very important, while reserving the opportunity to spur the Leader of the House to greater efforts in this direction at a later stage.
Item No. 3, the motion on Northern Ireland, was ordered yesterday, and it is a fixed-time motion. In other words, it will be concluded in three hours. I am not happy that it appears at the end of the Order of Business today. I do not think there is any need for me to say how important a motion it is. Nobody on any side of the House would disagree with its importance. Neither am I trying to say that items Nos. 1 and 2 are unimportant but what I do not want to happen is that, at some stage this afternoon, when everybody is tired and wants to go home, we reach item No. 3 and that the debate is left hanging over for another fortnight. That would be very unsatisfactory. I would like, if possible, to have an opportunity to take the Northern Ireland motion in one block on one sitting day. It was my impression that we were going to have this motion as item No. 1 on today's business and the proposers of this motion were working along that line. We find this morning that it is third in the Order of Business and is unlikely to be reached with enough time to conclude it today.
When one looks at the other two items on the Order Paper, there are a number of amendments down for item No. 2, which is the Ground Rents Bill. I do not expect, and I would not ask, Senator Cooney to give up his amendments without a fight. The Committee Stage of the Ground Rents Bill could go on for a considerable time. Item No. 1 is open-ended and one does not have any idea when it is going to finish as there are a number of speakers left. Judging by the size of the file the Minister was thumbing yesterday afternoon, he is determined to have a good go. I would like to comment on that particular item that there has been a problem. An excellent debate has been affected by the fact that it has gone on and on over a number of days and it is a pity that this could not be concluded.
In view of the importance of the debate on Northern Ireland, I propose that the Order of Business be items Nos. 3, 1 and 2. As the Northern Ireland debate is a fixed-time debate, if we start it now it must be over in three hours' time, so there is not an open-ended situation. I believe if we did it that way the three items could be concluded today. However, if we start with item No. 1 and it goes on and on, we will reach the unfortunate situation that the Northern Ireland debate is started at about 4 o'clock today, half the House is not here and it is concluded at some later date to be specified. So I should like to ask the Leader of the House if he could see his way to accepting my amendment and start with item No. 3.
I should like strongly to second what Senator West has said. I should like to express my belated disappointment. In the first place, I was delighted that the Government had agreed to take this motion and I was delighted all day yesterday that it was going to be the first item this morning because that was our understanding then, and I now echo the disappointment expressed by Senator West that if we take item No. 3 it has to finish within three hours. In taking the motion first we would be according it the importance and prominence it deserves because it is an element of our national life which, very frequently, comes under bitter criticism from both North and South. To put it in such a position that it could be, on the one hand, debated by a depleted House towards the end of a very hot Thursday and, on the other hand, that it could become fragmented and broken in the middle, given that very low priority within the business of the House, would reflect on the seriousness with which we regard the entire question of Northern Ireland. I would like pointed out to me what are the enormous advantages of taking these other two items first. The White Paper motion, as Senator West has said, has been running for many days. It has generated one of the best debates yet and it is the kind of motion that does benefit a great deal from intermissions and postponements. I am sure it is good for the Minister to hear in instalments what the House has to say on such a motion. I cannot see that any great disadvantage would accrue from postponing the White Paper until later in the afternoon. It will certainly be carried over into next week also. The Landlord and Tenant Bill could be over in ten minutes or it could take hours if the proposers of amendments get dug in. With the privilege on Committee Stage of a Bill of Members standing up over and over again, there is no guarantee that the business will not go on through the afternoon and we would all end up disappointed. I know it is unreasonable to ask the House to consider at any level the personal convenience of its Members. I have organised my day and it is quite impossible for me to be here at 3.30. There is a very pressing committee meeting in UCD that I cannot get out of. I know that one has no right to plead that kind of concession, but I think one has reasonable cause for complaint if one puts down a motion, waits a long time, has a general assurance that it is going to come up at a certain time and then at 12 hours' notice discovers that it is going to be postponed. I will be bitterly disappointed if I cannot speak on this motion as I am one of the people who has his name on it. I appeal to the Government to allow the debate on Northern Ireland to take precedence and to be ordered first.
One can only say that the problem that has arisen is a reflection of the situation that we all know so well, that it is impossible to anticipate or prophesy the precise way in which parliamentary business will run. In particular, one has no way of knowing how long the debate on the White Paper will run. First of all, I should stress that the Bill, item No. 2, was long since listed for today, and yesterday's Order Paper had it listed for this morning. There was no surprise about that. It was an established situation. In this House we have always—and quite rightly—taken the attitude that legislation takes priority over motions. That must be the position. This Bill is required and we have no way out of taking it today.
As regards the debate on the White Paper, the problem is that this has run on a considerable time. It has to be finished because the Green Paper which is to succeed the White Paper is coming out next week. For us to leave that debate over and to be debating a White Paper when the Green Paper had already appeared would be a futile operation. In common sense, one must therefore finish this debate today.
As regards item No. 3, we do appreciate the problems of Senators and perhaps we can leave it this way: if the situation develops in such a way that we will be starting this debate late in the afternoon, then, as far as we are concerned, if Senators wish to do so, we are happy to leave it over. If it turns out that it is 3.30 or 4.00 p.m. or whatever that we are going to begin it, then we are willing to leave it over if Senators wish to do that. We can consider the matter again.
That situation is satisfactory as far as we are concerned. If we can reconsider the matter at the time at which it would naturally come up, we will be happy to do so.
Order of Business agreed to.