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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 21 Mar 1979

Vol. 91 No. 8

Private Business. - White Paper “Programme for National Development 1978-1981”: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That Seanad Éireann takes note of the White Paper: Programme for National Development 1978-1981.
—(Senator W. Ryan).

First, I would like to ask the very relevant question: was this White Paper planned? Was it designed to be a plan or was it just wishful thinking? In my short experience in political life I have never seen a document to be so off-beam in such a short time. It is no more than a few months ago since it was actually published and never in the history of this State have we had so much turmoil, change of direction and change of views in such a short time. One would also have to ask the question: is it real planning in the strict sense of the word? It would appear to me that in the recent past a lot of the planning that we have been hearing about and a lot that has been proposed for us is certainly not working out in practice. I must say very quickly, of course, that it is very important that our economy be well planned. It is very important for the future success of this nation but, certainly on the basis of the last document, if the interim period is anything to go by we are heading for disaster.

What has happened since the publication of the White Paper or indeed coincided with it? The first thing that happened at the end of December was that £20 million was hived off the food subsidies. Whether the Minister would like to accept it or not this has created a great deal of hardship for many people. That has been borne out by the fact that in the very recent past our inflation rate has been made public. It appears now to be between 10 and 11 per cent despite the fact that the Minister for Finance said on that very morning that it would still be 5 per cent for the entire year. I am not an economist but I cannot see how you can reconcile these facts. Certainly, if it is much more than 5 per cent for the year and is nearer to 10 or 11 per cent our economy is in serious trouble.

The next thing that happened was that in order to gain from the farming community a sufficient yield of tax they were asked in the budget to pay a 2 per cent commodity tax. The first tax, I understand, for many years on actual production. To say the least of it that has started a vicious circle in this country and nobody is sure where it will finish. It has triggered off a set of events which are unprecedented in our history. If it happens that we have severe problems, the architects of that budget, and in particular of the 2 per cent levy, will have to answer the people in years to come.

There is no doubt that that budget item was ill-conceived and not very well considered, as was shown by its subsequent withdrawal. It was withdrawn because farmers were asked to come up with a taxation system that would yield the same amount of tax, but on that basis it does not stand up at all.

If, in the opinion of the Government, this was the proper way to tax farmers, they should have gone ahead with it and carried it out. If they were of the opinion that it was not the way to do it, it should not have been introduced in the first place. I would like to hear the Minister's views on the subject when he is winding up this debate. I believe this is crucial.

When the PAYE sector saw the Government were weak on this spot, they brought on to the streets yesterday tens of thousands of people to show in no uncertain way that they were not satisfied with their taxation proposals. The point I would make, and which did not appear on the White Paper as such, is that unless there is a certain amount of stability and good relationships in industry, commerce, the farming community and so on, as an economy we will not go anywhere. I would ask the Minister if he is still convinced that we are heading for a 5 or 6 per cent inflation this year. With the wage demands that are being sought, coupled with rising inflation, it appears that we will have a remarkable deficit at the next budget.

Is it proposed to withdraw another section of the food subsidies shortly, or do we take it that we have seen the last of the subsidy withdrawals for the rest of this year? There are certain people in certain places who are now saying quite openly that we might have more subsidy withdrawals on 8 or 10 June. There is no doubt that the removal of food subsidies in part has contributed to our inflation rate. That, coupled with the fact that we seem to be on the way to dearer fuel and energy, would seem to indicate that the predictions in the White Paper will be off target. It is well to acknowledge that there were a number of undertakings given both in the White Paper and in previous documents, certainly in the Fianna Fáil manifesto, which have gone haywire.

Take Posts and Telegraphs. I understand that it is the desire of the Government, as stated in the manifesto and the White Papers, that the telephone service would be overhauled to meet the needs of the eighties. There is no need to comment on that. Never has that service been so bad and never has there been such a dull and bleak future. From an industrial point of view, even without the strike, if there is not the will to get on with the job at Government and civil service level irrespective of whether we have money to invest it is likely that we are on a downhill road.

In the context of the White Paper, what will happen on 1 May if the proposed yield from the farming community does not match what the 2 per cent was likely to yield had it gone through? What steps do the Government hope to take to rectify the situation whereby the farming community decide, on one hand, that they are taxed to the hilt, and on the other, the PAYE workers believe they are entitled to a massive cut in income tax? From the point of view of economic planning and development those are vital areas for the remainder of this year and indeed many years to come.

On the question of agricultural development, the White Paper made a number of points, some of which we entirely agree with. First, £42 million will be spent on drainage. There are a number of points to which I would like to refer as this scheme concerns my part of the country. It was talked about six, eight or nine months ago and was launched officially, I understand, on 1 January. I have not yet come across a farmer who has actually been approved for a grant. I am beginning to wonder at this stage if it is a 1979 scheme or a 1980 scheme. It is vitally important that progress be made. The proportion of money laid out for arterial drainage as opposed to land drainage is open to question. There is no doubt this is a very important development but I believe there are vast areas of several counties, including County Galway, that could do with a greater allocation of finance for arterial drainage. It is very difficulty to drain land unless you have a proper out-fall. I believe there was a certain amount of haste in the actual drawing up of that scheme and thousands of farmers along the basins of the rivers in Galway, the Suck, the Islands river in Glenamaddy and Williamstown and so on see very little use being made of the new land drainage proposals. Because of the out-fall problem they cannot drain land.

I understand the west is likely to expect, and to get, money from the EEC in the region of £150 million or £180 million. On paper that looks excellent. I hope it is right, but how exactly will it be spent? When it will be spent? What contribution will the Government make, and over what duration will that money be coming to us? I understand it will be used for the promotion of group water schemes and infrastructural developments, like sewerage schemes and so on. It is in that area that it will be used, together with other facets of agriculture. There will be £150 million or £180 million—I am not sure which as the reports contradict one another—direct from the EEC. Is that the size of the budget? Do we put in half of it—in other words, we put up £75 million for their £75 million? Will it be over ten years? If it is, there is nothing dramatic about it. When one judges the capital allocation to the local authorities over a significant number of years it would actually get lost in inflation.

Those are the questions we are asking. We are finding it difficult to get answers. It is important that, if we are in a position to capture £150 million plus, the Government of the day should be in a position to match it, pound for pound, to ensure that all the vital structures so lacking in the west and in the designated areas would be righted at a time when it appears that the EEC authorities are very concerned about the less favoured areas. Anybody who believes that £150 million will solve the problems of the west, particularly over ten years, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

It is important at this stage in our development, with less than three months gone in this year, with rising prices, with escalating house prices and interest rates, that the Government take a long, hard, look at how this price escalation is hitting the lower income groups.

On the question of land structure, the White Paper was hazy about a land policy. The Minister for Agriculture has repeatedly said that he is introducing a new land policy. However, despite the fact that we have been listening to that for at least nine months, I see no sign of such legislation coming through. It is very important, if we are to hold any type of structure and maintain any type of population in rural areas, that a proper land structure be formulated very quickly. There is no doubt that it is the people with money and security behind them, whether in farming or otherwise, who are buying the land. What is happening now is that on a number of family farms of 20 or 25 acres the farmers are only able to pay the current rate of interest, at anything up to 17 per cent. With land at £2,500 to £3,000 per acre, it is economic suicide for them to invest in an additional ten, 15 or 20 acres of that type.

It is ironic that at a time when more than half the population believe farmers are rolling in gold, at a time when the bigger farmer is certainly making a fair amount of money, the small farmer is not in a position to better himself. This Government saw fit, with one swipe of a pen on budget day, to take 2,500 people off the farmers' dole and greatly affected the living standards of another 5,500. It is very had to reconcile a policy that on the one hand will debar people from subsidy, which is what the farmers' dole is, and on the other will not allow for a situation where the very people for whom this type of assistance was initiated, are denied the opportunity of bettering themselves by purchasing land.

Any type of Land Commission acquisition at the moment will cost a farmer, even with the subsidy, at least £150 to £180 and, in some cases, £200 per acre. There is no way under our agricultural price structure at the moment that a farmer could live and repay that type of money on an additional ten or 20 acres. That is the real problem. Whatever the Minister decides, the financial arrangement for a smaller farmer who wants to better himself must be such that he can do so. Nobody is suggesting that the price of land will decrease. There is no sign of that.

In the market place there are more customers than we have land for and this type of price will obviously be the order of the day. That is of very little use to the 60,000 or 70,000 small farmers, most of whom genuinely want to stay in farming, who are trained for nothing else, who have families and will use the infrastructure which is already there. They are desperate because they are being priced out of a living. If the Minister for Agriculture does not take sufficiently swift action the problem will certainly cure itself in the next five or ten years. But we will be well on the road to the big man taking over and we will again revert to the situation where the big farmers will be in the same category as landlords in the past. Our population in rural Ireland will dwindle and there will be many more problems than heretofore.

Whatever might be said in the White Paper, the time is absolutely right and it is vital that the Minister for Agriculture, in co-operation and in conjunction with the other Ministers, should grasp this thistle and tell us his land policy, irrespective of whether the Land Commission is scrapped or not. I believe that, so far as land division is concerned, the Land Commission is very necessary. The expertise built up in that commission over the years would be very hard to replace. The commission should be amalgamated with the advisory services and together would provide a very lively team of experts who would get on with the job providing and ensuring that the land wealth of this country is divided in a proper and efficient manner.

Never before—and I do not like to have to say this—have I seen a Government with all the answers—with all the talents, according to themselves—getting into such a knot. I hope that the spectacle on the streets of Dublin or of Portarlington will not have to be repeated because it is not good for the country or for democracy. If it is repeated we will have to lay the blame entirely on a budget which was ill-conceived, ill-timed and ill-considered. One would hope that in the future when a so-called strong Government, the strongest ever in the history of the State, introduce a budgetary measure they should research it well beforehand and decide either to go ahead with it or not.

I welcome the opportunity of saying a few words on the White Paper. One of the most remarkable and noticeable characteristics of the present Government is their policy of forward planning by identifying priorities for national development and setting targets for achieving them within the period of the programme. This represents progressive government and provides both Government and people with a challenge. The purpose of government is to manage the economy in such a way that our resources are utilised to the maximum and the greatest number of people possible share in that overall national development. It is the right of every citizen to be able to get gainful and satisfying employment in his or her own country. Therefore job creation must be a top priority in any programme. The economy must be managed in such a way that these jobs are as far as possible productive, thereby contributing further to our national economic expansion. I feel strongly that job creation for the sake of job creation, desirable as it may be in the short term, in the long term is not what we should be trying to achieve. We should ensure as far as possible that all our efforts are geared towards involving people in gainful and productive employment. With our economy in the very early stages of development, there is sufficient scope for such development and there is certainly a need for development in both agriculture and industry.

It is in this situation, then that I welcome the White Paper. The present Government are just two years in office. Their first programme was the famous, or infamous, election manifesto followed by the White Paper of 1977-1980. Both of these documents were deliberately designed by the present Government to do two things. In the first instance they were introduced to restore public confidence not only in our own ability to survive but also to develop. These documents were prepared at a time when general morale in the country was at a very low ebb from an economic point of view. The second purpose of these two documents was to stimulate the economy by investing or reinvesting. This necessitated borrowing, which the Government said at that time was a once only operation needed, to gear the machine for future development. In view of all that has been said, it is no harm to look for a moment at how the economy performed in relation to our first programme.

In 1978, our economic growth was the highest of any member country of the EEC. Inflation fell from 13.6 per cent to 7.6 per cent in 1978. Even though it might not seem to be the case at the present time, in view of all the criticism we hear about prices and so on, price increases were reduced from 13.6 per cent in 1977 to 7.6 per cent in 1978. In the same period our exports rose by approximately 14 per cent. The main objective of both of these policy documents, or programmes for national development, was in the main to create new jobs. When the present Government came into office one of the most serious tasks facing them, and the one to which they totally committed themselves, was that of job creation. In both documents the Government projected a job increase of approximately 20,000. We know with hindsight, looking at the performance of the programme, that we did not achieve 20,000 jobs but we achieved 17,000 new jobs, and that was the greatest single increase in new job creation ever achieved by any Government in this country. That is a fact which is undeniable.

Apart altogether from the actual achievements of both of these documents—and the achievements no doubt were remarkable—of equal significance is the fact that it has now been clearly established that planning works, provided it is soundly based and provided the public accept the restraints necessary for the implementation of the programme. In the paper before us the Government carry their economic development programme a stage further to 1981. Again, they have identified their priorities. Many people say these priorities are ambitious and are not attainable. But I say it is better to set our targets high and to try to achieve these objectives than to drift aimlessly from budget to budget, from election to election, with no sense of direction and no foreseeable destination. I have not heard anybody question our priorities. Nobody would disagree that our target for a continuation of the job creation programme is our greatest national priority and that in the long term we should not be working towards full employment. It is agreed by all that the control of inflation, increasing output and reducing Exchequer borrowings are all necessary requirements for long-term economic development. But what is not readily agreed is the means by which all these things can be achieved. It is here I believe that the public and the Government face the greatest challenge.

The targets set in the first programme were achieved, in my opinion, by good planning assisted by borrowing which was necessary at that time to get the economy moving again. If we want to implement the present programme the targets will have to be met by and large from our own resources, some of which have come from the success of the first programme. It has been preached by the Minister, by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance that it is an economic fact that we cannot pay ourselves more than we earn. If we do, it can only happen by borrowing, which we now agree is undesirable, in the long term by increasing costs which would affect our ability and our competitiveness from the point of view of exports. Any new jobs that we can create are dependent on exports and we must remain competitive if we are to have any success in this field. This raises the whole question of wages, wage restraint and taxation because the bulk of the money to finance the programme must come from taxation. It really boils down to the fact whether those of us in secure employment are prepared to share with our less fortunate neighbours. From our point of view, none of us could really claim that we are in very secure employment.

There is no doubt that the time has come for a complete reorganisation of our tax system. The importance of fairly sharing the tax burden is pressing and I believe and the Government believe this problem must be tackled. It should be remembered that the objectives of the White Paper would, of themselves, relieve part of this tax burden because the greater the number of people in employment, the less the demand on our financial resources and the greater would be the number of people sharing in the tax load.

I believe that every period of Government is important but I sincerely believe that the present period of Government is the most challenging. Our future at the present time is very much in our own hands. We are now a full member of the EEC and are also part of the EMS. Such membership brings with it opportunity, but there is no point in looking around us and looking at what other countries are doing. We must manage our economy in such a way that we gain maximum advantage from such membership. Most important of all, we must control inflation, increase output and improve our competitiveness. These, again, are, to sum up, the objectives which the Government have outlined in the current White Paper. The White Paper deals extensively with every aspect of our economic development. To me, the detail with which it deals with agriculture is encouraging; it is an indication of the Government's awareness of the contribution that this sector has to make to our economic development and of its potential for doing so in the future.

Arising from our membership of the EEC, Irish farming has made outstanding progress. It is to the credit of our farmers that they availed of all the opportunities and incentives provided through our membership of that enlarged Community. The fact that they will exceed the target of 25 per cent increases in gross output this year is positive proof of the challenge and of the progress that has been made by Irish agriculture.

The availability of markets gave farmers, for the first time, the confidence they needed; their willingness to borrow and invest in the industry is an indication of their courage. Our indebtedness to farmers is a factor which cannot be overlooked in any discussion on farm income and nothing should be done to prevent the continuation of this investment; apart altogether from agriculture, it is necessary in the national interest. The old problem of the instability of markets continues to be a headache for Irish farmers. It is of the utmost importance that special consideration be given to Ireland as a small agriculture-based economy which is only in the very early stages of development and whose contribution to services will be minimal in the context of the entire Community.

Our representatives in Europe have been doing a good job, which I hope they will continue, in relation to the promotion of Irish agriculture. We have not a great industrial base and are mainly dependent on agriculture. It would be disastrous for this country if anything happened which would undermine our agricultural development programme. For this reason I urge the Minister and the Government to ensure that at all times the weak position of the Irish economy, particularly in relation to the various stages of present agricultural development, is fully recognised and understood.

Commenting very briefly on the White Paper, the proposed review of the farm modernisation scheme is something which is very welcome from our point of view. I always got the impression that the various directives, in relation to the farm modernisation scheme, were designed in Brussels and that the people who designed them did not have a full knowledge or understanding of the peculiar position in Ireland in relation to, for instance, the size of our agricultural holdings. All of these future directives, as far as Ireland is concerned, will have to be geared towards retaining and strengthening the small farm family unit, which has been traditional as far as we are concerned and which is so essential if we are to retain the maximum number of people employed in agriculture.

In relation to a Bill which is currently before the Dáil and which will be coming to this House in the foreseeable future—the present AnCOT Bill—all the provisions in that Bill, in relation to agricultural development, are progressive. The Bill envisages a situation where the county committees of agriculture will be development organisations within the eastern counties for the promotion and general development of agriculture there. The Bill is progressive to the extent that it sees the agricultural adviser as being a development agent, working in co-operation with the Department of Agriculture in each of our counties.

One of the most encouraging aspects of our development is the fact that all the grant aid under the EEC directives for agriculture which is being paid, and will be paid in the future to farmers under these directives, will be based on the farmer working to a development plan. This has been one of the most heartening and encouraging things taking place in relation to modern agriculture—that all the farmers now participating in the EEC schemes have development programmes prepared for them by their agricultural instructor, in fact, very much the same as what we are talking about here. Targets have been set for them and they are working towards them and if each individual farmer is doing that, then, collectively, our total agriculture must benefit and expand considerably.

In relation to these directives and in relation to the points made in the White Paper on agricultural development, I urge the Minister and the Government to give further consideration to the employment of additional instructors to service the farm development plans which have been prepared by these agricultural instructors. Perhaps I am biased and perhaps it is a personal view, but I do not know of any other public servant, paid out of public funds, who makes a greater return to the nation than the agricultural instructor preparing plans for farm development and working in close co-operation with the farmer, from the point of view of servicing these plans. Certainly, the national investment in the employment of additional agricultural instructors would more than repay itself in the long term and I cannot emphasise too strongly the need and the importance of increasing the staff for our various county committees of agriculture.

The White Paper stresses the need for, and the importance of, agricultural development from a drainage point of view. The last speaker did not give us much credit for it, but the amount of money which is now being channelled into land drainage in the west is extremely welcome from a national point of view, or from the point of view of the development of agriculture.

Coming from the midlands, let me again be a little bit biased and say that there are parts of this country, other than the west, where there is an urgent need for land drainage. I want to make the point that, in relation to the expenditure of large sums of money such as we are talking about in the west of Ireland, I feel that a cost and effort analysis should be applied to such expenditure and that priority should be given to areas which would yield the greatest return to the nation, by way of increased agricultural output. In the midland region we have the Barrow and the Nore catchment areas and a number of other smaller rivers: all of these are waiting for an arterial drainage scheme which, as I see it, may not happen in our lifetime. I would urge the Minister and the Government to press ahead with our case in Brussels to increase grant aid which would enable us to make more rapid progress with arterial drainage.

I happened to be at home last night watching on television a very informative agricultural programme showing land reclamation in some of our mountain regions. One of the experts in the programme, in reply to a question, stated that we had over 1,000,000 acres of mountain land capable of reclamation and capable of being brought into production. Up to now, however, this particular job could not be tackled because of the non-availability of the necessary modern machinery. I am a farmer myself and I was amazed, last night, watching the television screen to see the progress that has been made in relation to machinery for land reclamation. The big problem in mountain reclamation is, of course, the large number of stones and boulders that result from such projects. We have now advanced to such a stage that we have machines capable of collecting, gathering and drawing away these stones. I am saying this to illustrate the point that we have made fantastic technical progress in relation to land reclamation. We have a million acres of mountain land capable of being brought back into production. I understand a further million acres of land are in need of drainage in the lowlying areas. Our greatest natural resource is agriculture and we have two million acres of agricultural land undeveloped which I do not think we can, in the long term, afford to neglect.

Again, we have an EEC scheme, referred to in the White Paper before us, in relation to disadvantaged areas. There are areas outside the present designated areas which are, in their own way, seriously disadvantaged and where the farmers cannot qualify for the increased grant aid for land reclamation that is available in other parts of the country. I hope, within the term of the programme before us, that we shall make further progress in relation to the disadvantaged area scheme and that a greater portion of our country could be included in it.

Forestry is an area of national development which has been completely neglected in the past. We have large areas of land capable of being planted. The great national regret should be that we did not tackle the afforestation programme 25 to 35 years ago. Had we done that, we should today be reaping the harvest in relation to some of our State forests which is only now commencing. While it is very encouraging to see the amount of timber coming on the market from our forests, it is sad that the acreage available is so limited. I hope that under that heading the Government will continue with a positive forestry programme, both from the point of view of creating employment in forestry and from the point of view of planting young forests which perhaps not we, but our children, will be able to take advantage of in the years ahead. I have endeavoured to cover, as best I can, some of the important parts of the programme which is before us.

I was impressed last night when I came across a book, Aspects of the Swedish Economy and Their Relevance to Ireland, the co-writers of which are Robert O'Connor, Eoin O'Malley and Anthony Foley and it was published by the Economic and Social Research Institute. There is in it a statement which is relevant as far as we are concerned. Sweden is at a very high stage of national economic development and is one of the wealthiest countries in Europe. The statement reads:

Sweden has attained her present level of development, not through any specific policy instrument, or set of instruments, but because her people made a definite commitment to full employment in the 1930's and have stuck to that commitment since.... The success of the full employment policies has depended to a large extent on the attitudes of the trade unions. The unions realised early on that in a democracy real power in the area of labour policy rested with them and not with the Government. Hence, if full employment was to be attained they (the unions) would have to back the idea (of full employment) to the ultimate limit.

I hope that if some Swedish economist 30 years from now is writing about Ireland he will be able to say that Ireland made a commitment to full employment in 1977 and they have stuck to that commitment since. If this happens, Ireland, too, will have reached a very high level of economic development; the time for that decision is now.

Senator Hyland started off by using the manifesto of Fianna Fáil before the 1977 election, the famous or infamous document, depending on which side of the House one is on. He went on to talk about forward planning, and to say that this White Paper was an example of forward planning. He spoke of challenging times for the Government today and finished up by quoting Swedish examples, when I should have thought that we were being encouraged to follow German examples.

I thought, on reading the White Paper, that it followed from an instruction given to the various Departments to produce a document, which would sound optimism throughout its length, and which would lead to discussion and comment. The latter aspect, about its leading to discussion and comment, is advisable in any document. However, having already had the Green Paper which was also there for discussion we were told, and now having a White Paper, we are finding ourselves being led to a cycle in which there must be a break somewhere if concrete action is to be taken. We can go on talking ad infinitum about what should be done and, indeed, congratulating ourselves on what has been done.

If the White Paper is regarded, and it should be regarded, as a planning stage for the Government, then the absence of specifics in this regard in the document before us condemns, out of hand, what it is supposed to do. It has failed lamentably to set out for discussion and comment either specific objects or a set of alternatives which could be tackled as a forward planning programme. There are no references to costings in regard to any specific purposes mentioned. There are no alternative propositions put forward with costings which any responsible Opposition party could get their hands on and say, "We should choose this rather than the other one; this seems to be the best course for this nation to take".

I have a suspicion that Fianna Fáil have been forced to tie in both the Green Paper and the White Paper somewhat in line with what was in the manifesto. They created that hazard for themselves and it would not do for them to depart too abruptly from it. In the White Paper we find a divergence from the heavy and colourful language which was so predominant a feature of the manifesto. Optimistic targets were, indeed, set out in that document before the election of 1977. Even now we find in the White Paper that there are departures, that the figures quoted in the manifesto may not be realised; that depends on so many other factors operating to our advantage.

The White Paper, the Minister said in his opening speech, sets out different courses of action which could lie ahead for the nation. I do not believe it does that. The Minister says that the Government to date have restored confidence and set the country on rapid economic growth. Confidence is not something which starts overnight. It has a growth, just like economic growth. It must start at some stage. There is no doubt the best authorities do admit that confidence was beginning to rise after the recession of the 1973-76 period before Fianna Fáil came into office. This being so, I expect Fianna Fáil to claim credit for something with which, perhaps, they have very little to do. It means that the Coalition Government, before they went out of office, had set the economy on a course which generated confidence and which also, in turn, generated the rapid economic growth of which the Minister speaks.

The White Paper refers to job creation, particularly in the public service. Here there is a definite change in emphasis from what we read in the Green Paper and, indeed, in all the speeches made by the Government in the post-manifesto period. It is an admission that private enterprise has not been able to throw up the number of jobs desired, or felt as necessary, to reduce the level of unemployment to manageable proportions.

We must take into account that any reduction in unemployment that there has been, has not yet been shown to have taken into account the rate of emigration over the past two years. Until we get the emigration figures it would be premature for Government Ministers to speak of any great success in the reduction of the unemployment figures. A number of authorities have specifically referred to the fact that the creation by the Government of non-productive jobs in 1978 in the public service cannot be continued; it leads to logical consequences, to increased taxation and increased costs. Here, again, Fianna Fáil find themselves in a dilemma. They know, and, have partly admitted in this White Paper, that the private sector has not come up with the number of jobs desired and they must try to make up for the slack in that regard. Because of that dilemma they cannot go too far without creating more taxation measures—a matter about which there is considerable agitation at present.

In regard to the rate of inflation practically nobody agrees with the figure envisaged by the Government for before the end of 1979. This figure is now in the region of 10 to 12 per cent, and possibly more. This is very much a contradiction of the figure of 5 per cent envisaged by the Government. In regard to the rate of economic growth various fountain sources commenting on the rate of economic growth envisaged by the Government have said this does not seem to be realisable.

I move on to the field of housing. For whatever reasons, Fianna Fáil decided after the election victory of 1977, to give what was almost a blank cheque to the private building sector to erect as many houses as they could. We now find an admission in the White Paper that there is evidence to suggest that the demand for housing which emerged during 1977 resulted in an undue concentration by the construction industry on providing houses at the upper end of the housing market. This made it very difficult for prospective buyers to raise the necessary finance to purchase such houses. Local authorities, particularly, have felt this concentration of emphasis by the Government on the private sector. The number of local authority housing completions in 1978 was estimated to have reached 6,000 and this compared with figures of 8,700 in 1975, 7,000 in 1976 and 6,300 in 1977. We see that there has been a reduction each year in the number of houses provided by local authorities since the Coalition days. The White Paper makes the most extra ordinary statement:

there is a general lessening in the degree of urgency of local authority housing needs, even though there has been little or no falling off in general demand and significant arrears still exist in some areas...

I should have imagined that the fact that there is no reduction in demand and that there are still substantial arrears of housing to be met, would certainly have led to a different conclusion than is reached in the White Paper.

In regard to roads, Senator Hyland referred to forward planning being an aspect of the Government. In no other field is the lack of forward planning so evident as in the sphere of roads throughout this country. We have had a great increase in the volume of traffic on roads which are completely inadequate and unequipped for that volume of traffic. One would have thought that forward planning would have meant that the creation of roads would precede such an increase in the volume of traffic but we have seen just the opposite happen. It has also led to the situation for most local authorities that the 1979 Road Fund allocation which has been presented to the local authorities over the past few weeks, shows that apart from improvements on national and primary roads and a small number of national secondary roads, the amount for maintenance of the existing road network is completely inadequate for the task in hands.

The manifesto referred to a road development plan which would be brought forward by the Government. It also spoke about a transport commission report. We are still waiting for all these things to happen and we are almost two years into the life of the present Government.

In the field of telecommunications, the White Paper has this to say:

One of the main inhibiting charcteristics of telephone development is the long lead times involved. There are inescapable lengthly intervals between the initial planning and physical completion of large numbers of related works.

I venture to ask how do other countries manage in this field? If it is a simple admission that there are inescapably lengthy intervals between planning and completion, how do other countries get around this problem? Why are there such lengthly intervals, which seem to be more lengthy in Ireland than in any other country? The Government, we are told in the White Paper, envisage accelerating the present programme. I would like an explanation or definition of what "envisage" means. We all have dreams and we all conjure up lovely visions of what various systems should be. I am afraid all that is in the Government's mind at present are merely dreams and ambitions. What any plan should have, or any White Paper should have at this stage, are specific proposals with costings, or, at least, a number of alternatives with costings.

The Government is facing challenging times, challenging times, not merely on the economic front but on the broader front of democracy and in social terms because, largely through political blundering and bad judgment, they have arrived now at the situation where they are not being trusted; they are even being suspected. They are not looked up to, which should be the case with any Government in any democratic country, if they are to act as a demonstrative government in democratic terms.

I conclude by saying that the White Paper is merely another part of that cycle that we set out on when we had the first Green Paper. This cannot go on indefinitely; it is high time that the Government brought forward some specific proposal and told us the cost for a number of alternatives so that purposeful comment and dialogue can take place on those proposals.

I have some brief comments to make on the White Paper. I feel that the White Paper does not fulfil its supposed role as an instrument of economic planning because of the lack of decision on important issues and the lack of anything specific with regard to targets for individual sectors of agriculture. The paper's authors are mesmerised by increases in gross agricultural output; they seem to be unaware that certain categories of farmers and certain lines of production have lagged well behind the others. The possibility of changing the eligibility for and the method of payment of grants under the farm modernisation scheme is raised, but there is no final decision or no final plan put forward in the White Paper regarding this scheme. As a result, I feel that the farmer who might intend going ahead under the present scheme or under the scheme that is emphasised in the long term, does not know whether it would be better to go ahead and invest under the existing scheme or to wait to see if he would do better under the scheme that is emphasised in the White Paper. An uncertain situation like this, due to no finality being reached, always tends to favour inaction. You will find that farmers who are undecided as to what to do will be slow to go ahead under the present scheme and will wait to see what the Government or the Department are going to produce under the new scheme. This is not good forward planning and could certainly not be described as such. There is strong evidence that, notwithstanding the general prosperity in the sheep industry, mountain sheep production has not benefited in any way.

Debate adjourned.
The Seanad adjourned at 8.30 p.m. until 11 a.m. on Thursday, 22 March 1979.
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