Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Mar 1980

Vol. 93 No. 11

Adjournment Matter. - Language Teachers Exchange.

Dr. West

The problem I wish to raise on the Adjournment is heightened by the introduction of oral examinations in French to our leaving certificate examination—something which I raised on two occasions on the Adjournment over the past ten years or so. I am very glad to see that after tortuous negotiations the pilot scheme has started and that at least 20 per cent of our students taking French in the leaving certificate are getting oral examinations in the language this year.

It is not connected only with that. It, in fact, has wider ramifications. The problem I am raising is the inadequate number of language teaching assistantships by exchange between France and Ireland. These assistantships are restricted to people who are studying French in university, they can either be undergraduates or be graduates who have a specific interest in French. The assistantship exchange scheme is an agreement between this country and France by which an equal number of students at this level from French universities come and teach in our Irish schools and a corresponding number of Irish students go and teach in French schools. The number going both ways each year is currently 36. This number is inadequate by almost any measure. One of the familiar, not necessarily accurate, tests of schemes such as this which operate here is a comparison with Britain. Our number is 36, the number in Britain is 1,400, and if one reduces that figure—taking the relative populations into account—the fraction being 3/50—one reaches a figure of 84 as a fair comparison. That is not a very good measure but it does give an idea that we are very much out of scale and my plea to the Minister of State for Education is that these assistantships should be greatly widened both in numbers and in scope.

The test which is applied by the Department of Education to undergraduates or graduates who wish to participate in this scheme from our point of view is that they either are taking, have taken, or intend to take the Diploma of Education. Now I can see from the bureaucratic point of view why there is a restriction such as that but I would argue that it may not necessarily be the best type of restriction. I would urge the Minister of State just to apply the scheme to students who are studying French at a high level as a main subject in their university courses or to students who have just graduated in such a course. The fact of having to take the Diploma in Education should not be considered necessary as it rules out a wide category of people who are not going to be teachers but who will need expertise in oral French in many other walks of life.

This situation prevails and is administered by our Department of Education and their French counterparts under a cultural agreement between this country and France and the cultural agreement is overseen by a joint commission, French/Irish, La Commission Mixte, which meets every two years alternatively in Paris and in Dublin. One of the complaints from people who have been attempting to have this scheme broadened and the numbers increased and the scope of the scheme widened is that it is very difficult for anybody who is not in the Department of Foreign Affairs or the Department of Education or the French Cultural Service to succeed in having any input into this commission. The operations of this commission are somewhat of a mystery and one professor of French who has complained to me about the problem says that as far as he is aware the problem does not lie with the French Government who would be happy enough to increase the number of language assistants if we would only increase our number, but the initiative needs to come from us. The difficulty is to get our representatives on this commission from the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of Education to ensure that our case for an increase in the number of assistantships is clearly and fairly put.

As I said, this scheme has become doubly important because of the oral French test at leaving certificate level. This necessitates more and more teachers having good up-to-date oral French. Not only in the teaching profession is this a requirement nowadays but with the developing commercial cultural contacts between this country and our European partners, and particularly with France, people in very many walks of life now need to have a good working knowledge of French. In common with other Members of the House I sat for the leaving certificate examination when one studied the written but not the spoken language. It has been one of my ambitions—which I have always postponed—to become fluent in French. Like many other Irish people it would be of the greatest benefit to me. I think that the Department and the Minister of State, should take a generous attitude. He should do two things. He should ensure that at the forthcoming meeting of the commission early in April our case is put for an extension of the numbers covered by this agreement. Also he might go a bit further and make the process easier by actually widening the membership of the commission and getting an input from other bodies, such as in this case, the Committee of University Professors of French. But I would urge him to widen and increase the numbers in this very important scheme because there are more and more people who must have a knowledge of French. We have got to be able to teach it in the schools and we have got to enable our undergraduate students who are taking French as a major language to study for a year in France on exchange schemes such as this.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Mr. Tunney)

Fáiltím roimh an ócáid seo teacht ós comhair an Tí agus eolas maidir leis an scéal seo a chur os a chomhair. I would like to place before the House some information which is additional and perhaps repetitive of that which has already been given by Senator West. The scheme for the exchange of assistants between Ireland and France derives from the cultural agreement between the two countries which was signed in 1967.

Article IV of the Agreement provides that:

The Contracting Parties shall, to the greatest extent possible, organise the sending or exchange of teachers, students, research workers, lectures, assistants, scholars and cultural experts as well as of representatives of university or extra-university cultural groups.

They shall facilitate in a general way collective meetings of young people and of youth groups of both countries.

In accordance with the terms of this article, a scheme for the exchange of an equal number of language assistants between Ireland and France was launched in the 1969-70 school year. In that year, seven assistants were exchanged. The numbers increased gradually over the years as the following figures illustrate:

School Year	Number of Assistants
1969-70	7
1970-71	7
1971-72	10
1972-73	20
1973-74	25
1974-75	30
1975-76	35
1976-77	35
1977-78	35
1978-79	36
1979-80	40

The current 40 exchanges include a new development whereby four of the exchanges were specifically from the non-university, third level technological area, an area with which I know the Deputy is in sympathy and would welcome the departure.

I have not yet made a final decision on the number of exchanges to be arranged for the coming school year, but in arriving at such decision I will bear fully in mind the views of the Senator and also his reference to the English scene.

Activities under the cultural agreement are reviewed approximately every two years when a meeting of the joint committee of French and Irish officials is held. The meetings are held alternately in Paris and Dublin and the officials are drawn from the Ministries of Foreign Affairs, Education and other interests covered by the cultural agreement. The next meeting of the joint committee will be held in Paris on 1 April and at this meeting the arrangements for the language assistants scheme will be reviewed.

The main purpose of the exchange scheme is two-fold. Firstly, it gives young graduates or undergraduates, who intend to proceed to a teaching career, an opportunity to spend an academic year abroad and thus perfect their knowledge of the language and the culture of the host country. Their placement in a school gives them an insight into the educational system and adds to their career preparation. The second objective is to improve the students' knowledge and understanding of the language and culture of the host country. In addition, there are the general benefits which accrue from foreign travel and experience. The assistants are usually student teachers between the third and fourth year of their training course. They are engaged for an eight-month period, October-May. The basic studies of the assistants are: (a) to assist the regular staff as supernumeraries; (b) to conduct conversation classes in French or English as appropriate; (c) to supplement such classes by exercises in reading, dictation and oral composition; and (d) to give the pupils an insight into the institutions and way of life of the assistants' country.

The assistant is not required to undertake formal class teaching or be made responsible for discipline or class supervision. If, in a particular case, however, the school principal is satisfied that the assistant is willing and competent to undertake formal class teaching, such may be allowed, provided it is supervised by the regular class teachers and provided that the amount of such work is strictly limited. In any event, an assistant would not be required to teach for more than 12 hours per week. The assistant is encouraged, but not compelled, to play a full part in the social life of the school and in out-of-school activities. For purposes of facilitating the pursuit of private studies by the assistants and of affording them travel opportunities during their stay in the host country, their time-table arrangements are such as to allow them one free day per week, usually at weekends. School principals ensure that: (a) the school staff co-operate in helping the assistant to integrate with the school and the local community; and (b) any additional advice and help considered appropriate is given to the assistant in the matter of his or her studies.

In the operation of the scheme, my Department invite applications each year from the authorities of second level schools and the technological colleges who wish to participate in the scheme. The number of assignments to be made in any year is determined by the Department in consultation with the French Cultural Service and having regard to demand and available finances. The selection of Irish schools to which French assistants are assigned is the function of the French-Irish Pedagogical Committee—a committee representative of my Department, the French Cultural Service and the Irish Association of Teachers of French. The selection of Irish students to be assigned as assistants to French schools is made by a committee representative of the Department, the Higher Education Authority and the French Cultural Service.

I might add that, in addition to assistant exchanges, my Department operate a scheme whereby experienced language teachers are exchanged between Ireland and France for a full school term. Currently there are ten such exchanges. Assistant exchanges are also arranged between this country and Germany. The number of such exchanges is substantially less than those with France, and I am under pressure at the moment to increase it from the existing level of eight. The question of launching a pilot scheme of exchanges of language assistants between Ireland and Spain is currently under consideration. I am quite sure the Senator shares with me the view that exchanges should not be limited specifically to one country but rather we should have as great a spread as possible.

I would like to say that the assistant exchange scheme in respect of France, and to which Senator West has referred is, and I agree entirely with him, by far the most rewarding of all the educational activities undertaken jointly by Ireland and France from the point of view of improving and perfecting our teachers' command of the French language, For example, when examiners were being recruited for the pilot oral exam at leaving certificate, 1980, by far the best response came from former assistants. The standard of oral French acquired by assistants is usually of a high order. With the expected rapid expansion of the pilot oral at leaving certificate level, there will be need for increasing numbers of examiners with a high degree of proficiency. Furthermore, the implications of the introduction of compulsory orals at leaving certificate in the mid-eighties will necessitate the employment by schools of teachers who have sufficient oral proficiency to teach effectively through the medium of French. Hence I am anxious to give every support to the fullest development of the exchange scheme.

Finally, this is the second occasion on which I have the pleasure and the honour of being here with you, and I find myself in the unusual but very welcome position of being entirely at one with the proposer of the motion, and regret that finances and resources are not of the kind that would allow us to implement more fully what the Senator and I wish for our assistants and our students.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.30 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 19 March 1980.