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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 13 Jul 1982

Vol. 98 No. 9

Adjournment Matter. - Calf Subsidy Scheme.

The matter I want to raise is the administration of the present calf subsidy which has come into effect and applies to animals born after 20 May 1982. I appreciate the difficulties which the Minister may have encountered along the route, but we believe that even at this late stage there ought to be some investigation into the possibility of having some amendment introduced whereby all calves born in 1982 would qualify for this £22 subsidy. It is a subsidy directly from the EEC; it is something that would yield to us, as a country and to the industry of agriculture, £37 million approximately in a full year, and for that reason it is a great pity that it only applies from 20 May 1982. May I just say that, looking at the realities of the situation, 75 per cent approximately of all our calves are born in the first four months of the year; in other words, in January, February, March and April we have 75 per cent of our calves born and in the remaining eight months we have the remaining 25 per cent. We would be losing approximately £26 or £27 million by not having the scheme applicable for the whole calendar year.

I would strongly urge the Minister to see what possibility there is of having that scheme amended to apply to all calves born in 1982. Having said that, the actual scheme itself and its administration leave a great deal to be desired. The scheme is based on the Italian calf scheme. I would suggest to the Minister that Italy and Ireland have no resemblances at all in regard to calves or payment of subsidies. Italy is a country that imports cows and calves; we are not an importer of cows or calves. Therefore, it is a great pity that our scheme in any way had to be based on or related to the Italian situation. In the Italian context they to into great detail in regard to pedigrees and the sire and the dam and so on. That would not be necessary here because all calves in Ireland are born in Ireland and their origin is more easily traced. At the present time the system that operates is that people bring their calves to a prescribed centre. This leads to a great deal of chaos even though it is at a time when calf numbers are pretty few. One wonders what that kind of system would be like in a busy period next February or March when calves are quite plentiful.

I appreciate that while the scheme is funded by Brussels its administration is a matter for our Government. For that reason we do not want to start talking about exorbitant administrative costs. In the long run it is the taxpayer who will have to pay, and I do not think any of us with a responsible approach should be advocating extravagance in regard to administration. I would suggest to the Minister something that would perhaps operate with a very limited cost and indeed be effective at the same time. Let us bear in mind that we have about 2,000,000 cows and on the basis of that we have born each year about 1.9 million calves, having regard to mortality and so on. There is a great deal of hardship on the farmers in the transportation of all these animals to any centres, not to mention the risk and hazard that exist by having to bring these animals to given centres. We immediately run the risk of disease, of pneumonia to young calves, of bacterial diseases, of TB and brucellosis and so on. Apart from the hardship and chaos that it presents, more seriously — and I would emphasise this — it represents a very high risk factor at a time when the Minister and others are very concerned about disease eradication. In a European context we have got to attend to that very diligently and continuously.

Having made these points vis-á-vis the weaknesses of the present administration of that particular calf subsidy scheme, I would suggest to the Minister that farmers should be allowed to tag their own calves but would be obliged to keep a special herd book in which all entries of their stock sales, purchases and so on would be clearly indentifiable. Of course, that herd book would be subject to inspection.

Perhaps a certain amount of tying in with the beef cow inspection scheme could also be done as well as veterinary visits, headage grant inspections and all the other inspections that are carried out on herds. If these options were there for the Minister to work in it would eliminate the need for bringing calves to any centre. If we take, for instance, the beef cow inspection side of it alone over 400,000 of our calves would be covered where these cows have to be inspected each year. The headage payments in a disadvantaged area scheme would cover a good number also. Perhaps in limited cases — one has to be flexible in these matters — inspection at centres may have to be considered. It is the view of people who are involved every day in the cattle business that there is no way this scheme can operate as it is when the real rush of cattle come on stream in the early part of next year.

I appeal to the Minister to take a very serious look at the possibility of having all calves included for 1982 and I remind him that, in fact, we are losing £27 million if all calves are not included during the current season. I would also like to emphasise that the risk aspects of disease, more than inconvenience, are things that he cannot take lightly. They are very great and are very disconcerting to many people. There is no reason why this scheme cannot be operated in a far more simple way. I hope the Minister will come up with some system that will make matters quite different from what they are at the moment. There is no point in monitoring the existing situation because it bears no relationship to the way things will be when calves come on stream in the first three or four months of 1983. I assume all calves will qualify for 1983. Perhaps the Minister will clarify this.

I am sure Senator Hourigan has brought this matter before the House because he is sincere about its administration in the future. I am not so happy about colleagues of his criticising the Minister during this by-election in connection with the calf scheme. I was in some areas yesterday where the Minister was severely criticised for the implementation and the administration of the scheme. Indeed, the Senator's colleagues are not that naive not to know that this scheme could not be implemented until late in the year. It is very poor form on the part of the Senator's colleagues. I am not criticising the Senator personally for bringing this matter before the House but yesterday I was annoyed at the criticism laid at the Minister's feet for the administration and the reason for having this scheme in such a mess.

We know quite well in the west of Ireland, where it is in operation, that it has its administration problems. I know quite well that next year this scheme will have to be devised in such a way that it will be attractive and will eliminate the hardship it has been on the farmers this year. The reason for this is its late introduction. Some of the livestock people who are inspecting the calves at the centres are given instructions that there may be at the end of the day a figure coming up that might not be as relevant as it should be with the number of cows we have here in the State. That put fear in the operators' minds and there was a tendency at the very beginning to doubt the age of the animal presented. For that reason some calves were rejected at centres. It is something that is uncontrollable at this stage. You are dealing with particular individuals at different centres. You must accept their judgment as to the age of the animal presented. Some farmers are disturbed by the inspections at the different centres. There is no blame on any Minister for that type of sensitivity of the scheme. Next year I am sure we will have a different scheme, and I would welcome it. Long before it was put into effect and when we heard the details of the scheme we brought some of those matters to the notice of the Minister, and, coming from County Roscommon and being a practical man, he knew quite well that the scheme would bring hardship and there would be confusion in its administration. All I can say, as Senator Hourigan said, is that I would welcome a more flexible scheme in 1983 that would bring less hardship on the farming community and that could be worked in conjunction with scheme tests and bring about an easier scheme for the farmers. That is what we would all welcome, and it is something that I am sure the Minister will be reviewing in 1983. I hope that we do not hear more criticism like I have heard over the last week.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the Minister with regard to this particular scheme. It has tested to the limit the unflappability for which he is renowned in political and public circles in this country. No matter what Senator O'Toole says the fact of the matter is that this particular scheme is in operation in the country at the moment and it is causing immense inconvenience and unrest among the farming population. I have come today from the area of Kilkerrin near Glenamaddy, County Galway, and for a couple of months now the farmers of that area have been standing at the doors of their houses looking for a break in the weather so that they can address themselves to the vital task of bringing in the hay and making silage. The weather has been broken, they are worried about their feed for the winter and now they have to endure the indignities and abuse to which they have been subjected as a result of this scheme. When I say abuse I mean abuse. They have had to bring their calves, maybe in the early morning in order to get the matter finished with and they have had to wait for a whole day, a day wasted, in centres such as Glenamaddy, near the home of our distinguished colleague, Senator Hussey. There they have waited all day and found at the end that calves, sometimes born on the same day, sometimes from the same mother, have been singled out with one being tagged and the other being rejected. A farmer from that area said to me that when he had calves of this kind to be tagged he was threatened with prosecution for producing a calf of the right age.

I appreciate the difficulties into which the Minister was walked by this. He walked into a scheme and walked into negotiations with which maybe he was not totally familiar at the time. Possibly he was not aware of the implications particularly of the grave danger of infection, the grave danger of taking out a young frail calf in inclement weather and exposing that calf to the very real danger not just of various bacterial and virus infections of that kind but to the simple danger of pneumonia, which is a real problem with young calves when they are exposed to inclement weather. Far be it from me to incite the Minister to any kind of pre-polling day stroke such as, for example, is alleged to have occurred in the not so rural townland of Esker in County Dublin, where there was a matter not so much of young frail calves but of young frail human beings at a certain community college. Possibly when 20 July has passed the Minister might look, in the traditions of his party, into his heart and consider some modification of the scheme which would be a little bit more practical, a little bit more Irish rather than Italian and would not expose the farming community and their calves to the kind of indignities and dangers to which his enthusiastic and well-meaning but ill-considered scheme has exposed them.

Senator O'Keeffe rose.

If the Minister would be so gracious as to allow the Senator a few minutes to speak.

Of course.

I would like to congratulate the Minister on the great efforts he put into bringing about this wonderful scheme. For years we have waited for a calf subsidy. We have been critical of the Italians and have envied them for a long number of years when many of our calves, which are so badly needed today, were exported to gain that subsidy in Italy. It is very sad today to hear people criticising that scheme. We must remember that in a full year it is worth £37 million. The only weakness I see in the scheme is that we, as a spring-calving nation as against the other countries where they have an all-round-the-year calving pattern, will be at some loss. Our problem has been that the Minister continuously negotiated in Brussels but his efforts were frustrated by the British, who were not interested in having a calf subsidy or a farm price increase this year.

With regard to the transportation of calves to centres, I do not see a great deal wrong with that. I speak as a farmer who knows the farming scene quite well. Having canvassed in the Galway constituency over the last few days, I have not met a single farmer who criticised that scheme. That is the truth. There was a suggestion that we should have a herd book where we would have records of our cattle population which would be held by each individual. As a farmer, I would not be interested in that herd book. For years farmers have been attacked for not paying tax, I am surprised at Senator Hourican making that suggestion here as he knows more about the farming scene having worked for farmers and having a farming background to suggest that that book would be available to the Revenue Commissioners, would be totally annoying to farmers if it was inspected. That would not be welcome in the rural area of east Galway.

I agree it is difficult to judge the age of a calf, especially with the system we have of suckling and of bucket feeding. We will have to leave that to the inspectors in the Department. I believe the scheme will work and that it will be a satisfactory scheme over the next year. Every scheme has teething problems and no doubt they are in this one. If it were not for the embargo we have inherited in the public service maybe we would see a larger inspectorate, with more people on the ground to inspect our calves. I believe the worst problems are over. At this stage I should like to say to the Minister that it is a job well done. I have heard no criticisms in east Galway and I have seen some of the finest calves that have ever been reared in this country.

First of all, I want to emphasise the fact that this is total EEC money, £37 million direct transfer from EEC resources going directly into farmers' pockets. I doubt if one could devise a more effective scheme as far as practical benefit to the Irish farmers is concerned than this one, because we can carry the administration through the existing agricultural offices and the money is direct cash grant to farmers. There are no overheads, no deductions, nothing of that kind. I should like to emphasise that fact.

Secondly, I had to negotiate for this scheme. The main argument I had in negotiating it was that there was a scheme already in existence in Italy and we felt, by reason of our GNP and our farm income situation, that if there was a scheme in Italy we were entitled to it also. It was on that basis that we got this scheme extended to Ireland. I fought for the scheme on that basis. Inevitably, I had to take the scheme, if you like, warts and all. There are problems in regard to its administration.

I should like to emphasise another aspect also. The marketing year started on 20 May. It was not our fault that there was a delay in that respect. Indeed, at the end of the day, I was very glad to participate in a very historic decision in backing the six founding members of the European Economic Community, joining with them to push through the Irish farm package this year which otherwise would not be in yet. That package included the £37 million we are talking about here. We did it on a qualified majority decision with Britain, Greece and Denmark not voting with us.

I have no apologies whatever to offer here. Furthermore, I want to assure the House — I have already so assured the Dáil — that everything possible to make that scheme more adaptable to Irish circumstances will be done. It was important to get the scheme off the ground in the first place. We had to satisfy the Commission that we were in earnest in doing that. Now that the scheme is off the ground we can adapt it to our requirements and be more flexible in regard to its administration but not flexible to the point of fraud. The scheme applies only to calves born after 20 May. That is the rule. Every scheme has to have a starting point. The scheme will continue into next year as well. When we are talking about the full operation of £37 million over 12 months, we are talking about January, February, March and April of next year.

Regardless of the time it started.

I am glad the Senator has raised that matter. The scheme is an ongoing one. It will be there until the start of the next marketing year. We have this scheme guaranteed until the next marketing year starts when, we hope, we will see the scheme renewed. I would like to see it as a continuing feature of the situation in regard to Irish agriculture. I believe strongly that the big problem facing our agriculture is the whole question of livestock numbers, to raise the level of our sheep herds and our cattle herds and to work the capacity of our land to the fullest extent. That means putting money directly towards livestock and livestock rearing. This is essentially a rearing scheme. It is not just applied to the dropped calf as such. It applies to the calf after six months rearing. The in-calf heifer scheme, the headage grant scheme, the suckler scheme, the loans scheme and this scheme are all geared towards livestock production. We must put our money, as far as the present and the immediate future in Irish agriculture are concerned, in that precise direction. That is sound, sensible policy. Let us certainly iron out the difficulties in its administration. There is nothing that cannot be improved. I can assure the House these difficulties in administration will be ironed out. The principle of this scheme is essentially sound and geared towards Irish requirements.

The Minister understands that the debate will conclude by 7.25 p.m.

There is one final point I want to make. There has been apprehension about the question of the disease aspect. Certain difficulties arise in bringing cattle into the centres but those difficulties and the risks involved are obviated to a very large extent by the tagging system that we now have in regard to calves. For the first time ever, we have a principle established that every calf is on record. You have a trace-back system that will be invaluable in regard to the detection of disease in our herds in the future. That is a very important spin-off bonus benefit from this scheme in my view. The Irish Farmers Journal had a very interesting front-page article making that very point about three weeks ago. I am very glad that Senator Hourigan raised the matter. It is important and fundamental. It is a vital cog in raising livestock numbers. It will be a practical help. It will go on until next year during breeding and when the flush of calves comes in January, February and March it will present a real administration problem. In the immediate months ahead we will have to prepare ourselves for that. We will have to iron out the kinks in the scheme and have a scheme working early next year which will be practical. I thank the Senator for raising the matter which I think is of very important public concern.

Could I just thank the Minister for his reply?

The Seanad adjourned at 7.25 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 14 July 1982.

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