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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 23 Mar 1983

Vol. 100 No. 3

Order of Business.

It is proposed to take Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 8. In regard to Nos. 3 and 4, since the Bills are related it is proposed to take Second Stage of both Bills together, one debate for the Second Stage of both with, of course, separate Committee and subsequent Stages for each Bill. It is proposed to interrupt Government business at 5 p.m. in order to take motion No. 8, if not reached earlier.

In regard to the next sitting of the House, it is expected that the Dáil will pass the Social Welfare Bill to the Seanad in the course of today and that it will, in the course of tomorrow, also pass the Telecommunications Bill and the Industrial Credit Bill. I have had discussions with representatives of the different groups and the general feeling seems to be that it would be advisable for the House to sit tomorrow, since most of these Bills must be enacted before 31 March. I recommend that the House should sit tomorrow and complete these three Bills, if necessary sitting late.

On the question of at least one of those Bills, I have in mind to move a number of amendments. Can you explain my position to me, please?

Are there any other speakers?

We all know that the Social Welfare Bill has to become law by 31 March but the Government knew that long ago. I am not objecting that we have to do this tomorrow, but it is very unfair to hold up this Bill in the Dáil until yesterday and today, finishing it today and then giving it to us tomorrow and expecting us to pass all Stages by tomorrow night. It is a Bill against which quite a lot could be said. I do not know whether one could say anything for it or not. It is most unfair that this should have happened. This Bill could have been passed in the other House last week allowing us, if necessary, three days to work on it. I just want to voice my protest as far as that is concerned.

On a different point, I would like to ask the Leader of the House if he has any information about the motion on the establishment of two committees that are of particular concern, one being the Joint Committee on EEC legislation. That is a committee which never managed to get the work done when re-established during the course of the last term of the Oireachtas, because there was not any time for that committee to issue any report. Therefore, there is now a further backlog of two years of EEC legislation that requires to be scrutinised. It is a matter which is, therefore, of very considerable urgency and importance. The other committee, in which there is a great deal of public interest and concern, is the proposed committee on marriage breakdown and divorce. It is important that the terms of reference of that committee be brought forward as quickly as possible. In the joint programme it was mentioned that it was hoped that that committee would report by the end of 1983. It is a matter of urgency, therefore, that it be established as quickly as possible, so that it may examine that very important area and fully report.

I would be grateful if the Leader of the House could give some information on both of those committees.

I would like to join with Senator W. Ryan in trying to find out exactly what the situation is regarding the Social Welfare Bill. The Leader of the House did suggest that we would sit tomorrow and take this Bill. From what he said, it would appear that there is going to be a guillotine placed on discussion on this matter. I would like to ask are we going to sit on Friday, if need be? If not on Friday, are we coming back next week, because I do not think that this Bill should be rushed through this House with any undue haste? It is a very important Bill, with major social implications for everybody in this country at present.

I do not think that this House should be forced to run through this Bill in a day, or a half day, or two days. We should continue discussion on every aspect of this legislation until it is teased out totally to the advantage of the House and to the people who are referred to in it and to the advantage of our legislative system.

I would like to associate myself with what Senators Lanigan and W. Ryan have said. In fact, 31 March is not until some time late next week and I do not see any reason why the Seanad should not, if necessary, sit on Friday. I would like also to ask a question about No. 17. Senator Hussey and myself had that matter down as a question for raising on the Adjournment. I do not understand why it appears on the Order Paper. Is it now taken from the proposals that we had in mind and put on to the Order Paper to be taken as a motion? I did not intend it to be a motion on the Order Paper, but a motion on the Adjournment. It is a very important and relevant question.

I understood that Senators Hussey and Killilea wanted this taken in the form of a motion, but I will certainly talk to Senator Killilea about it——

That is fine. If I could have it transferred and taken this evening I would appreciate it.

——as soon as I leave the Chair.

Firstly, in regard to the Social Welfare Bill, I want to say that I agree thoroughly with what Senator Willie Ryan, Senator Lanigan and Senator Killilea said about this Bill. It is unfair to this House that the Bill should be passed to us so late in the session. I might say that is not in my control nor, in fact, in this instance is it a matter for decision by the Government Chief Whip. I understand that the discussions which took place between the Whips in another place resulted in delaying the completion of Second Stage and the holding of Committee Stage, and that the agreement reached in another place was that the Bill will be concluded this evening without any question of a guillotine motion.

Neither, when the Bill does arrive here and is considered by the Seanad, would I suggest a guillotine motion in regard to the Bill. My first proposal is that the House should meet tomorrow and take the Social Welfare Bill as soon as it is available. My further suggestion that the House might if necessary sit late to conclude the Bill, was one made after consultation with other groups in the House. If other groups in the House wish to discuss the Social Welfare Bill on Friday, or next Tuesday, or Wednesday, this matter can certainly be discussed. There will be no attempt to close down the discussion on the Bill.

As regards the question raised by Senator Brendan Ryan on amendments to the Social Welfare Bill, when Second Stage of that Bill is concluded we would convenience the Senator and any other Senators who wished to put down amendments for Committee Stage. We could, if the other Bills were available, proceed to discuss the other Bills and leave Committee Stage of the Social Welfare Bill until afterwards, to give any Senator due time to consider the framing of amendments after the conclusion of Second Stage. We would certainly be prepared to facilitate any Senator in that regard.

As regards the question by Senator Robinson concerning the matter of the committees, and in particular the EEC Committee and the Committee on Marital Breakdown, I have been urging the various people responsible to move in regard to these committees. The expediency motion is on the Dáil Order Paper in regard to the EEC motion. It was only this morning that I was again pressing that this should be taken in the Dáil at an early date.

In regard to the Committee on Marital Breakdown, I agree with the Senator that it is highly desirable from a number of points of view that this committee should be set up straight away. Again this morning I was making further representations and was talking to the appropriate Minister, Deputy Nuala Fennell, just over an hour ago on this matter. She is as anxious about it, indeed probably more anxious than I am. Certainly we share anxiety in regard to this. It is not for want of pushing, it is for want of reaction that nothing has happened.

Order of Business agreed to.
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