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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 29 Jun 1983

Vol. 101 No. 3

Order of Business.

It is proposed to take Nos. 1 to 9 and No. 11. It is not proposed to take No. 10 this week. Items Nos. 1 to 7 are all concerned in one way or another, with the establishment of Joint Committees. It is necessary for us to dispose of this question and pass it back to the Dáil before the Dáil rises, which it is anticipated will be at the end of next week. It is a matter for the House to decide the manner in which to discuss motions 1 to 7, whether it will give us a better scope for debate to discuss them separately or whether we can discuss the question of committees and their establishment as one debate. I do not wish to impose either view on the House but I should be glad to know what the wishes of the House are.

In regard to No. 8, the Postal and Telecommunications Services Bill, I understand that there will be Government amendments to it and also possibly amendments from the Opposition. While I have no desire to make undue haste I should like to point out to the House that if amendments are to be made it would be necessary to return them to the Dáil before the Dáil rises.

Does the Leader of the House intend to take all Stages of the Postal and Telecommunications Services Bill today?

Senator Lanigan is experienced enough to know that the Minister would wish to have all Stages today but I do not want in any way to inhibit the discussion by the House of the Postal and Telecommunications Services Bill. There is the need to get it back to the Dáil. I might suggest that perhaps it would be sufficient to take the Committee Stage tomorrow morning to give time for the tabling of amendments rather than take all Stages today.

Firstly, as regards the setting up of the Joint Committees, naturally we have all been pressing for the setting up of these committees and I am very glad to see that a large number of them have come on the Order Paper today. I notice that one not mentioned on the Order Paper today is the proposed Joint Committee on marriage law and matrimonial and family law matters to which attention was drawn in the recent debate on the question of divorce a couple of weeks ago. I am very anxious to know when it is proposed to set up this committee as it is very important and the sooner it gets off the ground the better. I am not decrying the importance of the other committees, but this one should not be left out.

As regards the Postal and Telecommunications Services Bill, I would be anxious to have an opportunity, if possible, to put down an amendment and at least to discuss it in some detail. All Stages should not be rushed through the House today.

I should like to endorse what Senator McGuinness said with regard to the committee to be set up in relation to family law and matters pertaining to the family.

I noted the Leader of the House left open for the views of Members of this House how we might discuss the motions to set up the committees before us. I welcome and appreciate his openness in that regard. Personally, I would hope that we might adopt a slightly different approach from the other House and not just have one debate and then, as would be necessary, have separate decisions on the motions. I would prefer and indeed urge upon the House that we should discuss each of these committees, not necessarily at any great length, but separately because there are separate issues that arise in relation to them. Some of us, as members of the committees previously, have had separate experiences that we might wish to refer to.

We did not have in this House the opportunity for a full discussion on committees and reform of the House which the other House did as a substantive motion at an earlier stage. Therefore, there is a good reason for us to depart from the procedure adopted in the other House and to focus discussions on each of the committees in turn. On the question of establishment of the committees, I should like to join very strongly with the views expressed by Senator McGuinness and Senator Robb and express my unhappiness at the fact that the major Joint Committee on Marital Reform has not been brought before us. I join with them in asking the Leader of the House to ensure that this is done as a matter of urgency because this committee must get under way well before Deputies depart which, presumably, most Deputies will do in one way or the other for the month of August. I hope the committee will be well established and have got into their workload before then and could resume early in September.

The Postal and Telecommunications Services Bill which was raised on the Order of Business is a very substantial measure which affects more employees than any other measure which has come before the Seanad in my parliamentary experience. It is a Bill which we should not rush, we should consider it very carefully and not put any pre-emptive time on it, but rather let the debate develop. Bearing in mind the view of the Leader of the House and the reality that if we want to have amendments accepted here approved by the Dáil we must complete our discussion of the Bill before the Dáil rises, nevertheless it would be better to sit additional days if necessary to have a full discussion because in the other House the Bill did not receive a full discussion on Committee Stage. Certain important sections were not considered on Committee Stage because of the way in which the Business in that House was ordered. It is important that we take enough time to discuss it.

In view of what has been said, would it be possible for the House to sit next Tuesday because with the business ordered for today, the Postal and Telecommunications Services Bill might not get the full reading necessary for it? If we did sit next Tuesday to deal with that legislation, it might suit the House.

With reference to the Postal and Telecommunications Services Bill, my party are extremely concerned that all the necessary time should be given to have it properly debated. If possible, agreement should be reached either in the House or outside it with the Minister about amendments. The Labour Party group at the moment are sitting in conclave discussing their various attitudes to various sections of this Bill. We have commitments to certain people in the Post Office service to which we will give the fullest possible consideration. My party are in favour of sitting on Tuesday of next week to try to facilitate the widest possible debate on the Postal and Telecommunications Services Bill.

In regard to the points raised on the Order of Business, I would like to reply as follows. Firstly, in regard to the committee on marital breakdown, I am conscious of the recent debate in this House on the problem of divorce and of the amendment which was carried unanimously in which this House urged the early setting up and the early reporting by a committee of marriage breakdown. I am anxious that this should be implemented as soon as possible. However, there are discussions going on between the Government Chief Whip and the Opposition Chief Whip and while I would hope that those discussions would end in agreement, I do not think that we should do anything precipitate here that might prevent such an agreement. It will certainly be open to us here in the House and I do not think, on the other hand, that we should do anything to delay it. It has been the custom that the expediency motions in regard to committees are usually initiated in another place and then dealt with here. The present case is one in which, if there was undue delay in another place in regard to the passing of the expediency motions, we would have to give very serious consideration to the question of introducing the expediency motions here and then sending the message to the Dáil asking it to concur with us. That will certainly be kept in mind within the next week.

On the question of the Postal and Telecommunications Services Bill, I note the interest of Senators in having a thorough discussion on Committee Stage. Senator Robinson said that it is necessary to recognise the constraint that if the Committee Stage is to be meaningful, if the Seanad is to be able to amend this Bill, it is necessary for Committee Stage to conclude in time for the matter to be reconsidered by the Dáil. While we could certainly consider the question of sitting next Tuesday, I would be a little anxious if we decided not to take advantage of time available tomorrow in order to get on to Committee Stage if Second Stage is completed. I might point out that it is not necessary for us to make that decision now. The decision with regard to when Committee Stage of this Bill will be taken will be made at the conclusion of Second Stage. We will know then how much time we have used on Second Stage and we will be in a better position to make the decision.

In regard to the discussion of items Nos. 1 to 7 — which are all concerned with the establishment of committees — Senator Robinson has expressed a wish for separate debates. Nobody has made a plea for a unified debate. I have certainly no objection to acceding to this request but I take it that everybody will take a firm pledge to avoid repetition and that we will not find the same general points made on each of the seven motions.

On a point of clarification, may I take it that the Leader of the House is not suggesting that in any circumstances we would go on to take Committee Stage today?

That would be an unreasonable restriction on Members.

Order of Business agreed to.
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