Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 22 Feb 1984

Vol. 103 No. 2

Order of Business.

Mr. Ferris

It is proposed to take Nos. 1 and 2 in that order. I propose that we complete No. 2, the motion on neutrality, between 7 and 8.30 p.m. or earlier if we reach it. It would also be my intention to have an adjournment for tea from 6 to 7 o'clock.

Regarding No.4 on which questions have been asked on a number of occasions as to why it has not been taken, I just want to assure the House that the Leader of the House has been making many efforts to get the up-to date report so that we would not be discussing an old report. I want to confirm that it is with the printers but because we have no control over how long it will take the printers to complete the work on it, it is proposed by way of the resolution in No. 4 to have a debate in Government time on the developments in the EEC during 1983 to facilitate the Members, even if the report is not printed. We would intend to take that on Wednesday, 7 March. The House will be sitting in the meantime but that is the date that it is proposed to take that. I can assure Members that the Leader wanted to facilitate the House and has made every effort to have the report available. If not, we will proceed on No. 4 as stated there.

Mr. Lanigan

May I propose that Standing Orders be changed today in order that we might discuss in this Chamber the deplorable acts which were carried on against a former Member of this House, Séamus Mallon. Séamus Mallon contributed very constructively to the Seanad debates during the time he was here and contributed to the work of the Forum. It has to be said that he has acquitted himself very honourably as an Irishman and I feel we should suspend Standing Orders so that this House could discuss the deplorable incidents that have taken place in relation to the bugging of the house in which he was staying in Dublin. It is deplorable that a former Member of this House, and possibly because he was a former Member of the House, had this type of action carried out against him. It is equally deplorable that at a time when he is a very important member of the Forum which is acting on behalf of the Irish nation that this should have happened. I propose that Standing Orders be suspended so that a discussion can take place on these actions.

An Cathaoirleach

I am in the unfortunate situation that the Senator has not given me any prior notice about this. There is machinery here to deal with this. It is not a matter entirely for me.

Mr. Cassidy

The Taoiseach owes it to this House to come in and make a statement, to be truthful with us and tell us what exactly is happening.

An Cathaoirleach

That is not in order.

Mr. Ferris

In order to facilitate the Cathaoirleach, and to be fair, I was not consulted by the Leader of the Opposition and I did not know that he was going to raise this matter. There would be a lot of sympathy, I am sure, among Members for the idea that facilities should be available for such discussion but in fairness to all of us, if we are to work this out in an orderly fashion, I suggest that the Whips and the Leaders of the groups should meet and discuss this matter. They should then communicate with the Chair, who is now in an invidious situation in regard to ruling on this matter. I propose that the Whips and Leaders meet as soon as possible to discuss how to approach this problem. It is a problem and the Senator will find I have a willing ear. If I had been approached on this matter we would have had an opportunity to have consultations before the House met. To propose the suspension of Standing Orders without a discussion with the Members responsible for the orderly running of the House is rather unfair of the Leader of the Opposition. I formally propose that if necessary we meet and discuss the matter, or go to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges or to any forum the Leader of the Opposition wishes. Last week it was agreed that we would have a certain Order of Business today. A Minister is waiting for a very important Bill to be taken in this House. I propose the Order of Business in the order in which I originally announced it and I recommend that we have discussions on the other matter.

Mrs. Honan

I would like to ask the Acting Leader on the Government side is he telling us that we may get a chance to discuss the matter? With all due respect to important Bills before the House later this evening, we owe it, as colleagues, to the former Senator Mallon — who was on television last night — to make it clear that we are backing him. It is not at all clear out there that we are backing Mr. Mallon and that he has been wronged. I am asking the Acting Leader of the House is somebody going to come in here and defend Mr. Mallon.

An Cathaoirleach

This is completely out of order. Does Senator Lanigan agree to the suggestion made by the Acting Leader of the House?

Mr. Lanigan

I agree with the suggestion of the Acting Leader of the House that we have a meeting which should take place as soon as possible after the Order of Business is discussed. I take issue with him as to the necessity for discussions prior to raising the matter here in the sense that there is no mechanism in the Seanad to raise matters of an urgent nature here as they arise. In the other House matters of urgent importance can be taken on a particular day. We are confined on the Adjournment Debate to issues which are of minor importance. We cannot raise matters of major importance on the Adjournment Debate. In this context I raise the matter here. I accede to the request of the Acting Leader of the Opposition that we meet and discuss the matter today. On the Order of Business as it has been suggested, on item No. 1, I would ask that we take the Second Stage only today because there will be amendments tabled to the Bill. Is it the intention that we take only the Second Stage today?

Mr. Robb

In relation to the issue raised, I would like to add my voice. There are two issues involved.

An Cathaoirleach

There is machinery to deal with that and it will be dealt with.

Mr. Ellis

I would like to raise, under Standing Order 29, the position with regard to people from the Leitrim, Cavan and Monaghan areas who are presently being questioned by the Garda Síochána and who have been questioned in the past few weeks. The position is that some of these people have, in my opinion——

An Cathaoirleach

Standing Order 29 says that written notice must be given to the Cathaoirleach and you have not done that.

Mr. Ellis

A Cathaoirligh, I will give you written notice——

An Cathaoirleach

It is out of order, Senator.

Mr. Ellis

If I might explain for one second, the position is——

An Cathaoirleach

There is no way you can explain, it is out of order.

Mr. Ellis

These people have been taken to the Garda station in Monaghan and have been ill-treated. Not alone that, but a number of these people have also had their homes raided in a manner which is unbecoming of the Garda force in this country.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Ellis

Will I be given permission, if I submit the written notice to the Cathaoirleach, to raise this matter later today?

An Cathaoirleach

If you submit it in writing to me I will make a decision on it then.

Mr. Cassidy

Are we to take it that there will be a discussion on the Séamus Mallon affair today?

An Cathaoirleach

I do not know. You have machinery set up to deal with such a matter. I cannot decide it.

Mr. Cassidy

Our Leader has made it very clear that we want a discussion on this today.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator is completely out of order.

(Interruptions.)

Order of Business agreed to.