Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Oct 1987

Vol. 117 No. 2

National Primary and Secondary Roads: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Senator McGowan on Wednesday, 30 September 1987.

That Seanad Éireann expresses the need to enforce the law to control all traffic using our National Primary Roads and National Secondary Roads to ensure that (a) all vehicles are roadworthy, (b) vehicles are not overloaded, (c) drivers observe the statutory speed limits and parking by-laws.

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:

To delete the words "National Primary Roads and National Secondary Roads" and substitute "roads".

—(Senator J. O'Toole.)

Mr. J. Daly

I congratulate Senator McGowan for bringing this motion before the House. It interests me particularly from the point of view of vehicles that are not roadworthy. Ireland is one of a minority of member states of the EC which do not have a compulsory car testing scheme. Such a scheme is probably more essential in Ireland than in other member states because of the manner in which the national stock of used cars is aging rapidly.

In 1982 one third of cars in use on our roads were five years or older. Today that proportion is at least a half, an extraordinary increase in just five years. In 1982 there were just 237,000 cars that were over five years old whereas today there are at least another 100,000 such cars. A new phenomenon is compounding this problem. With the removal of the previous restrictions on the importation of used cars and with so many of our citizens being unable to afford a new car because of excessive Government taxes — I mean all Governments because they have all looked on the car industry as a soft option, though that has proved to be counter productive — there has been a striking increase in the number of used vehicles imported into this country. In the first eight months of this year 7,600 such vehicles were imported. These included tractors, vans, trucks and cars. The frightening statistic is that 64 per cent of those vehicles were older than five years and 44 per cent were older than seven years. We all know, and I sure the Minister will agree, that whiskey and fiddles are about the only two things that improve with age.

There is a real fear that the Republic will become the dumping ground for cars and commercial vehicles which have failed the MOT test in Great Britain. Many of these imports come through Northern Ireland where the authorities themselves have expressed concern at the number of unsafe vehicles which are coming on the Northern Ireland market from the UK.

Vehicle defects have been shown to be a contributory factor in one in 12 motor accidents. A Garda exercise in 1986 of checking vehicles over four days identified 261 vehicle defects. If we really believe in road safety we cannot allow the national stock of used cars to age rapidly without introducing some measures to ensure that the vehicles are in a safe condition before they are used on the public roads. Sooner or later the Government will be compelled by the Commission of the European Communities to introduce a compulsory test for cars and light commercial vehicles. I would like to see the Government take some initiative at this stage rather than wait until they have no choice.

Having regard to the very large number of vehicles which require checking it should be possible to devise a scheme which would be self financing and which, apart from achieving its primary objective of improving the safety standards of cars and light commercial vehicles, would also give a much needed boost to employment in the motor trade.

In 1984, 384 commercial vehicles were imported. In 1985, the corresponding figure was 979. In 1986 it was 1,439. For the first eight months of 1987, the figure was 1,189, an increase of almost 50 per cent on the corresponding figure of 789 for the same period last year.

I would like to refer to a few points Senator McGowan made. The main thrust of what he said was correct. However, there are a few matters I would like to correct. Senator McGowan said:

It should be a very serious offence for someone to use a vehicle over a very long period without a speedometer and without having the vehicle registered. It should also be a very serious offence to then sell that same vehicle as an unregistered vehicle or as a new vehicle to somebody who does not have technical knowledge. Somebody will buy the vehicle as a new vehicle with no mileage on it when in fact it may already have covered 50,000 miles over a two to three year period. That is one aspect of vehicle and traffic law which has to be looked at.

I point out to Senator McGowan that when you buy a new or unregistered vehicle you get a certificate of origin. That certificate of origin shows the date on which the car was manufactured. Anybody receiving that document — which is necessary to tax a vehicle — would know straight away if a vehicle was three years old. Then the question arises — a natural one for anyone without any technical knowledge — why is that vehicle three years old? If they know anything at all about cars they will know that cars do not improve with mileage either. I would point out to Senator McGowan that the law exists subject to enforcement. Senator McGowan continued to say:

It should be a criminal offence to buy a vehicle that had been involved in a crash or written off by an insurance company and then to reinstate and sell that vehicle without the new owner realising that the vehicle had, in fact, been written off on some previous occasion. That is a very serious problem and one that not only endangers the life of the motorist but also the lives of others. It is a problem which needs to be looked at, it should be a matter of serious concern.

If you look at any newspaper you will see crashed vehicles for sale.

Insurance companies when dealing with cars that have been damaged severely are in the habit of writing them off. They tend not to want the hassle of having such cars repaired and, when repaired, the owners saying they are not satisfied with them. For instance if a car's pre-accident value was estimated at £10,000 and they contended the post-accident value was £6,000, they would write it off at £4,000, sell the vehicle for its salvage value which makes matters easier for them. As Senator McGowan rightly said the next purchaser of that car should know that it had been involved in a crash and its extent. I might point out that there are two types of vehicle crashes. There is the one which occasions superficial body damage, bearing in mind that the body is one of the most expensive parts of a car. For convenience that would be written of by the insurance company involved. But if the chassis and transmission are sound structurally that affords the insurance company an easy way out.

I am sure it would satisfy Senator McGowan, or anybody else buying any such car if the insurance companies — and they are well equipped now with computers and so on and it should not create any difficulty — had the registration books stamped to the effect that the car was a write-off. Then the relevant insurance companies can get in touch with each other about whether they should offer a person cover. The reason I say that is that the vehicle could be put back on the road if its body was repaired in a proper body shop. The Minister of State has full knowledge of this. He worked in a body shop for a number of years and served his time with Gibsons on the Quay in Cork, a company with which I worked in another area when they were manufacturing copper roofs. I was working on the relevant churches. I might say he was a very good panel beater. Perhaps he will pass on the skill to his sons. He will appreciate that if the vehicle is properly repaired — even if it had suffered structural damage — and is lined up on the car bench, that car could be inspected by the insurance companies' assessors. They all have their own or employ assessors. They could have their assessor, who will be a engineer, to examine that car. They need not insure it unless they are satisfied with his report. The Minister will know also that the same car could be repaired by some fellow operating in a back lane who would not have a car bench, who would pull it with a chain and a block to straighten it out. The car might not then be in line. It might very well constitute a potential danger to its drivers and so on. If such a car was examined by an assessor he would know straight away that there had been a black economy job done on it and would not pass it for roadworthiness. I am glad the Minister is present because he knows more about this than I do. Then Senator McGowan had to say:

All secondhand vehicles imported into this country, and here I am mainly talking about commercial vehicles, should have to undergo a mechanical test before they are allowed onto the road. My information is reasonably accurate. I can say here without any fear of contradiction that I can go abroad, buy a commercial vehicle, import it and then go to the local tax office to get a licence for a period of one month. I can put on the road a vehicle that has come off a scrap heap or failed an MOT test in England without the need for any log and without any restriction. I think that is totally wrong. All too often the vehicle is bought cheaply and it is not roadworthy in the first instance because it has failed the MOT test in England or it would have cost too much money to put it through the test, therefore it was put up for auction.

He is perfectly right in that comment. That is something that should be examined because in that way the law is only being brought into disrepute. We should either scrap the law or have it enforced.

I would need another day on this subject but I suppose I cannot have that. I shall conclude by thanking Senators Fallon, Ferris and O'Toole who took part in this debate. I am putting my faith in the Minister. I know the matter will be in good hands.

Minister of State at the Department of Tourism and Transport (Mr. Lyons)

Ní mór dom i dtosach báire a rá gur cúis áthais dom a bheith anseo chun cur leis an tairiscint seo. Mar a dúirt An Seanadóir Ó'Dálaigh tá roinnt taithí agam ar cursaí atá luaite aige.

In welcoming the opportunity to contribute to this debate on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Justice, I am prompted to remind Members that, of course, the subject matter under discussion is aligned with the activities of my Department in that we are responsible for the legislation in association with the Department of the Environment. Then it is the responsibility of the Department of Justice to ensure that it is enforced.

I thank Senator Daly for having said that I would know something about the technicalities of the activities he discussed. All I would add is that we repaired them and he sold them. But he could be sure in the knowledge that, when they were repaired by us, there was no need for anybody to inspect them because our work was of the highest standard.

I shall endeavour in my contribution to deal with the main issues referred to in the motion and, in addition, to refer to a number of points raised by Members during the course of the debate. The responsibility of the Minister for Justice in this matter relates mainly to Garda enforcement of the relevant provisions of the Road Traffic and Road Transport Acts. Senators will be aware that responsibility for road traffic legislation is a matter for my colleague the Minister for the Environment who was present during the debate last week. In this regard the House will be pleased to know that the Minister for the Environment is at present carrying out a thorough review of that legislation. He has asked me to say that he also welcomes this debate and the opportunity it presents to hear the views of Senators as part of his assessment of the adequacy or otherwise of the existing legislation. A comprehensive legislative and regulatory framework is a prerequisite for effective Garda enforcement. In this regard, Senators will be interested to know that there is close co-operation between the Garda Síochána, the Department of Justice and the Department of the Environment in relation to road traffic matters.

In relation to Garda enforcement, I want to assure the House that the general enforcement of this legislation is, in my view, very satisfactory. The statistics, which I will quote at a later stage, indicate, that there is a very high level of enforcement of these laws, and this has been acknowledged by a number of Senators in the course of this debate. The Minister for Justice has consulted with the Garda authorities who are the principal enforcement agency in this regard and they have assured him that the enforcement of road traffic legislation is, of course, regarded by them as a matter of the highest priority and receives as much attention as possible having regard to the very many other demands on Garda resources, particularly those of a security nature. There is at present in each Garda division throughout the State a traffic corps unit whose specific responsibility is enforcement of the traffic and parking laws on all public roads, including the national primary roads and national secondary roads. In addition to the special responsibility entrusted to this unit, the enforcement of the law in matters such as roadworthiness of vehicles, overloading of vehicles, speed limits, parking by-laws and drink-driving is also the responsibility of all uniformed members of the Garda Síochána. The measure of the commitment of the Garda to road traffic enforcement is evidenced by the fact that prosecutions of highway code offences account for over 90 per cent of all non-indictable offences prosecuted. The Commissioner's report on crime for 1986 records that over half a million offences under the Road Traffic, Road Transport and Road Acts were prosecuted in that year.

I will now deal with the specific aspects of the road traffic laws to which this motion is directed, starting with items (a) and (b) of the motion, which relate to roadworthiness of vehicles, and maximum vehicle weights. The minimum safety requirements for motor vehicles are laid down in the Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles Regulations and the Lighting of Vehicles Regulations made by the Minister for the Environment under the Road Traffic Acts. These regulations as we are all well aware are kept under regular review and are updated to take account of technical developments and safety innovations. There are substantial penalties for driving a dangerously defective vehicle. The convicted offender is liable to a maximum fine of £350 and/or a prison term not exceeding three months. For a second or subsequent offence within a period of three years, an offender faces an automatic disqualification from driving for a minimum period of six months. I note the particular concern shown in this House about the roadworthiness of heavy goods vehicles. Dangerously defective goods vehicles are a lethal menace to other road users due to their size and their weight. The roadworthiness of buses which carry large numbers of passengers is also a matter of concern and a very high standard of roadworthiness is essential in the interest of public safety. The primary responsibility for regularly checking the safety of heavy goods vehicles and buses and ensuring that all necessary maintenance and repairs are carried out naturally rests with the owners and the operators. In this context the Minister for the Environment has informed me that since 1983 a compulsory scheme of annual roadworthiness testing applies to heavy goods vehicles, buses and ambulances in accordance with the requirements of an EC directive. In 1986 for example about 44,000 heavy goods vehicles, buses and ambulances were tested, principally by private garages appointed by the local authorities to carry out the prescribed tests. The overall pass rate was 88 per cent — not a very reassuring rate when one considers what is at stake, and this even included 54 per cent of vehicles which passed only after defects that were detected during an initial test had been rectified. Vehicles which fail in this system of testing must be either retested or taken off the road. It is an offence to use a vehicle unless it is covered by a current certificate of roadworthiness. The maximum penalty is £500 and/or a prison term not exceeding six months. Taxis are inspected annually by Garda Síochána Public Service Vehicle Inspectors. I believe that rigid enforcement of these vehicles testing and inspection arrangements provides an effective means of identifying and remedying defective vehicles and ensuring that they are kept off our roads.

A number of Senators expressed concern about the possibility of defective used heavy goods vehicles being imported and licensed for up to one year, without being roadworthiness tested. I am pleased to inform the House that the European Communities (Vehicle Testing) (Amendment) Regulations, 1986, effectively deals with this potential problem. Imported used heavy goods vehicles and buses are now temporarily registered and licensed for a period of one month — solely to allow the vehicles to be roadworthiness tested in this country. During this one-month period the vehicles cannot legally carry goods or passengers for reward. The temporary licence or tax disc is clearly over-printed with the letter "R" so as to be readily identifiable to the gardaí. The temporary registration book for the vehicles is clearly marked to indicate that it has been issued pending roadworthiness testing.

The case for enforcing maximum vehicle weights is, I believe, unanswerable. The overloaded goods vehicle is a danger to the lorry driver, to other vehicle drivers and their passengers, to pedestrians and cyclists. Overloading can of course also do substantial damage to our roads and bridges, leading to increased maintenance and renewal costs which have to be funded by the taxpayer.

Many of our roads were not constructed for the numbers and weights of vehicles that are now travelling these roads. As well as that, overloading by some hauliers means that those operators who comply with the law are at a competitive disadvantage. In the past, the Garda Síochána were severely hampered in trying to enforce the legal weight limits. They only had access to privately-owned weighbridges and then only on certain days and at certain hours. Also some of the weighbridges had not the capacity to weigh the bigger and heavier lorries. To overcome this problem, a weighbridge programme has been undertaken by local authorities with 100 per cent grant funding from the Department of the Environment. The programme involves the provision of 14 weighbridges at strategic locations on national primary and secondary routes, at an estimated total cost of about £1.2 million. To date, nine weighbridges have been completed and are operational and the balance should be completed by the end of the year. These weighbridges are capable of weighing up to 60 tonnes. They are available to the Garda on a 24-hour basis, seven days a week. They are in addition to the network of 93 appointed weighbridges already available throughout the country of which 70 are owned by private firms and 23 are owned by local authorities.

I understand that the Minister for the Environment is considering an increase in the operational radius of weighbridges from the present five miles to a more realistic distance — say ten miles — and that he would welcome the views of Senators on this. Pending the enactment of appropriate legislation, the Garda have been equipped on a pilot basis with sets of axle weigh pads, which can be transported in Garda cars and can be used at any roadside location. Overloading is one of the few offences on the Statute Book where the convicted offender is liable to mandatory penalties which range from £50 for overloading a vehicle by between one and two metric tonnes above its legal gross weight limit to £650 for overloading a vehicle by five tonnes or more. These are in addition to the ordinary maximum fine of £350. I understand that the Minister for the Environment is also looking at the possibility of extending mandatory penalties to cover other overloading offences.

The case has been made by Senator Farrell that a particular load on a rigid truck is less damaging than the same load on an articulated truck. I understand that the Minister for the Environment is very willing to receive and consider any technical data submitted in support of this case. Points have also been made to the effect that hauliers from outside the State are getting away with breaching the laws pertaining to vehicle weights and roadworthiness. These hauliers are of course subject to the same laws as our own hauliers. There may be some legal difficulties in proceeding against offending hauliers once they have left the jurisdiction.

With regard to Garda enforcement of the laws pertaining to vehicle weights and roadworthiness, the crime report of 1986 shows that in that year 30,651 proceedings were taken for offences of defective tyres, steering, brakes and overloading, and that 18,815 proceedings were taken for breaches of lighting regulations.

With regard to (c), statutory speed limits and parking by-laws, a total of 15,568 proceedings were taken for exceeding the statutory speed limits in respect of all categories of speed limits including those for built-up areas. I suppose a few of us have contributed to that statistic; I plead guilty. In respect of parking by-laws there were 77,409 proceedings for breaches of local by-laws and 4,641 for offences under the road traffic general by-laws. Breaches of certain parking offences are dealt with under the fines-on-the-spot system by the issue of notices by gardaí and traffic wardens. In 1986 484,953 notices were issued in respect of traffic violations. I believe, and I am sure Members will agree with me, that these figures serve to illustrate the high level of enforcement of the relevant legislation which I referred to earlier.

I am sure you have all seen the sign "SPEED KILLS" and it follows therefore that realistic constraints on speed are of major importance in improving road safety and reducing road accident casualties. A range of speed limits apply to roads and vehicles. The maximum general speed limit on Irish roads is 55 m.p.h. This limit was prescribed in 1978 largely as an energy conservation measure. There is a widely held view that, taking into account the improvements carried out to our road network in recent years and the better standards of vehicle design, there is no longer an established need for a 55 m.p.h. limit and that a higher limit would be more realistic, more acceptable and easier to enforce. Proposals were put forward last January by the Minister for the Environment that the general speed limit should be raised to 62.5 m.p.h. or 100 kilometres per hour with higher limits for dual carriageways and motorways. There was a response from many interested organisations and members of the general public and the Minister is at present examining their submissions. I need hardly add that, irrespective of whatever statutory speed limits are imposed at any particular location, individual motorists must at all times drive at a speed and in a manner which takes account of the conditions which apply at that time. Something we learn when we are starting to drive is know your car and know your driving. A similar responsibility applies to motorists in relation to parking. Despite the best efforts of the Garda and traffic wardens throughout the country, certain motorists fail to realise that illegal and inconsiderate parking not only shows scant consideration for the interest of other road users but is ultimately detrimental to their own interests. The Road Traffic Acts provide a comprehensive range of parking controls. There is power to remove illegally parked vehicles or those causing an obstruction. Parking in a dangerous position is forbidden. The General Road Traffic By-Laws prescribe rules for the parking of vehicles which apply nationwide, while local parking controls are set out in local traffic and parking by-laws and temporary rules made by the Garda Commissioner. These by-laws and rules cover a wide range of controls such as clearways, double and single lines and meter parking. The "on-the-spot-fine" system applies to these controls and as I have said half a million on-the-spot fine notices were issued by the Garda and traffic wardens in 1986. This shows that enforcement is taken seriously. It also reflects the selfish way in which a proportion of motorists totally disregard these controls, which are designed to improve the flow of traffic through urban areas to the benefit of all. I should mention that proposals for the introduction of specific controls on the parking of large vehicles in the Dublin area has been developed by the Garda in consultation with the Department of the Environment and Dublin Corporation and are being considered at present. These proposals involve the introduction of particular controls, initially on a pilot basis. The question of extending them to other areas would be reviewed in the light of experience gained in the operation of the pilot scheme for the Dublin area.

I would now like to comment on the amendment to the motion. I am especially concerned that the drink-driving laws are strictly observed. I am not saying that in any narrow sense because of the emblem that I have on my coat. The Garda Síochána are ever-vigilant in the detection of drink-driving offences. Nearly 11,000 persons were breath-tested in 1986 as indicated in the crime report I have mentioned twice and there were 7,000 analyses of blood and urine specimens. Proceedings were taken for various categories of drink-driving offences in over 8,000 cases. The Garda authorities say that the publicity campaigns, especially those conducted over the Christmas period in which the public are exhorted not to risk drinking while under the influence of drink are having the effect of increasing public awareness to the dangers of drinking and driving, not least the danger of being detected. The substantial increase in the maximum penalties provided for under the 1984 Road Traffic Act must also be a deterrent and the seriousness with which drink-driving is viewed is underlined by the level of present penalties. For instance, a person found guilty of a drink-driving offence may be fined up to a maximum of £1,000, receive a prison sentence of up to six months and will receive a mandatory disqualification from driving for a minimum of one year. It should hardly be necessary to draw attention to the responsibility that rests on all drivers in regard to proper behaviour while in charge of a vehicle. Irresponsible behaviour can lead to loss of life and untold grief to the bereaved, as well as the risk to livelihood by convictions and disqualifications. At this point I would like to acknowledge that, of course, the majority of fleet owners, car owners and drivers are conscious of their responsibilities, but it is the minority whom we have to pursue under the regulations.

Lest it be taken that only the motorist has an obligation in this regard, no individual road user whether he or she be on foot or a pedal-cycle or motor-cycle should forget his or her obligation to the safety of other road users and to his or her own safety. The Garda need the help and co-operation of all in their task to protect road users and make the roads safe, and there is a social and moral obligation on everyone to observe the road traffic laws. In conclusion, I can assure the House that my colleague, the Minister for Justice, is determined to ensure that there is adequate enforcement of the road traffic laws and also that the Minister for the Environment is equally determined that there is an adequate legislative and regulatory framework for the enforcement of these laws. Any suggestions or criticisms of the laws or of their enforcement which Members of this House have made will be carefully considered and acted upon where possible.

Mr. M. O'Toole

I welcome the motion before the House. At the outset let me say that we have no problem in the acceptance of the amendments put down by Senator J. O'Toole and Senator B. Ryan. In connection with the first amendment, most of the damage to our roads is done in the area of main roads and county roads, about which I wish to speak at a later date. It is of prime importance that our national primary and national secondary roads are constructed to the highest EC standards for the purposes of mapping and acceptance of the legal tonnage that will and can be carried elsewhere in Europe and right across the EC countries. Our standards must be of the highest, not less than those of our partners in the EC. Our spinal roads especially must be as good as any in Europe, and if we fall behind in that regard moneys must be made available from the EC to bring our national primary and secondary roads to the highest possible standards.

EC trucks travelling right across the EC are what is known now as multi-axle trucks and are generally used by EC transporters. They are of a very high standard and very high speed with a most efficient driver personnel whom I want to compliment when we meet them on our roads. The courtesy, training and vigilance observed by the EC drivers, and, indeed our own drivers who use EC motorways are of the highest. The multi-axle trucks are not causing a great deal of damage to our national primary or national secondary roads because the load is spread over five axles and does not exercise the same stress on our roads as might occur on an inferior type of road. Tonnage is the unit quoted at tender time by the firms so it is important that that be regulated here as well as in any other country where these lorries ply.

I understand that some breaches of the law occur in traffic across the Border on certain days. Senators have pointed out that on Saturdays and holydays vigilance is not enforced as stringently as on other days. Such practice must be stopped. It is possible that smuggling to a high degree can occur on Saturdays and holydays when vigilance and security measures are relaxed.

Regarding the amendment which covers all roads, our national axle weight is in the region of ten tonnes per axle. If that weight is increased by even one tonne, then with a multiplier of four and for stress purposes that would mean a stress tonnage of roughly 27 to 28 tonnes. That is the technological assessment that has been reached now as a result of using a four unit multiplier. It is a serious consideration if you increase your tonnage per axle by one tonne, to have a stress of something in the region of 27 to 28 tonnes. I would like more information on this. Now that the Minister has spoken I will not be able to get it.

I was a bit disappointed with the Minister's reply to this motion in that it was very statistical. Indeed that is only what I would expect from a reply that is coming from two Departments. There is here an overlapping of functions between the Department of Justice and the Department of the Environment. In the reply to this motion the Minister has adhered mostly to statistical evidence that is available on the records of the State. I would have welcomed suggestions for further control of the tonnage on roads that are not national primary or national secondary roads. The main roads and county roads are the most seriously damaged by merchants delivering goods regardless of the type of truck used. They put as much as possible on to the truck and get it out to the customer as fast as possible. There is no weight limit.

County roads and main roads were not built to carry trucks delivering blocks, cement and builders' supplies, or to cater for low loaders carrying heavy machinery on bog roads with poor bases. There is no control on the type of vehicles used and there is no control on road users. It is all right to talk about providing weighbridges throughout the country, but in County Mayo there is not a local authority weighbridge in operation at the moment, and it is a vast county. I, as spokesman for the Environment, spoke on a recent Bill going through the House and I thought at that time that weighbridges would be available in each local authority district. To date there is no official local authority weighbridge in County Mayo.

The other arrangement whereby one uses private weighbridges is not the answer. When a traffic corps identifies a truck overloading and damaging roads in Mayo, one has to take that truck out of Mayo to get it officially weighed. That is something that should not happen. I would welcome the establishment of a local authority weighbridge in the counties that have not got them already. We must have a limit on the tonnage being carried on county and main roads. Our roads are unable to take the type of traffic they are carrying at the moment and legislation was put forward here in order to cover overloading.

I concur with Senator Daly in connection with the importation of secondhand buses and trucks from other EC countries. Because of the high level of import duty on new vehicles here many people have been lured to Great Britain and other countries to purchase good secondhand trucks and coaches to be used here. Indeed we are all to blame for having this import duty in force at the moment. On our accession to the EC our manufacturers were told to get themselves geared, because in ten years time import duty would be lifted and they would then have to compete against vehicles manufactured abroad. Import duty is still there and it lures people out of this country to purchase trucks that may not be roadworthy. I am glad to see from the Minister's reply that he is now taking particular notice of that, and one can only licence a vehicle for a short period until such time as the trucks come up to the required standards for taxing in this country on a yearly basis. That is something that we must all welcome.

I would welcome the prospect of the removal of the import duty. It would eliminate the traffic that is being generated because of this import duty, which causes our people to have to pay from £5,000 to £15,000 more than their European counterparts for vehicles.

The Minister for the Environment mentioned new regulations with regard to the location of weighbridges, but they are impossible to implement. In the old Bill five miles was the distance that one could impose to take a driver to a weighbridge. It would be unfair to ask people using the ferries to go back 20 miles or further to have a heavily laden truck weighed, when he might as a result of that check miss the ferry. That would retard the competitiveness of that haulier in trying to complete with his EC counterparts. Any traffic corps check points for overloading should be in close proximity to the existing local authority weighbridges. When we get our full quota of weighbridges we can have a fresh look at the position.

I am very concerned about the damage being done to our roads by overloading of trucks on our county roads and main roads. A considerable amount of money is being wasted every year trying to continually reconstruct our county roads and bring them up to standard. It behoves every one of us to take the necessary measures. As legislators, it is our duty to ensure that the minimum damage is done to our roads and bridges.

I appeal to the Minister, and to the Minister for the Environment to ensure that our county roads and smaller roads will not be distorted and broken up by overladen trucks. It is happening day in and day out. A traffic corps cannot control it because of the lack of weighbridges in remote areas. I appeal to the Ministers for the Environment and Justice to examine the position. That is where the whole distortion of our roads is taking place. Our national primary and secondary roads must be of the highest standards, and will be. The hard core and method of construction of these roads make them as good as any other country. We should ensure that they are. Most of the damage is being done on our main roads and county roads. Therefore I would ask the Minister to try, with the Minister for the Environment, to bring in some system to control the overloading on our roads in the remote areas across the whole country which are being damaged day in and day out by the type of traffic that I have already mentioned.

Mr. Cassidy

I will be very brief because there are many contributors to this motion. I want to welcome the amendment to it as well. I concur with everything Senator O'Toole said, especially in relation to the standard of our national primary and national secondary roads. We should have the same EC standards here as they have all over Europe and I know we are moving in that direction.

I want to refer to part of the Minister's excellent contribution. A few alarming statistics came up. It was found that 5,000 heavy goods vehicles, which include buses and ambulances, were deemed unfit to be on our roads in 1986. That is a very high percentage for a very small population of three million people, 12 per cent. I welcome the nine new weighbridges which are now in operation. I look forward to the day when every local authority will have a weighbridge in its own area, and that includes County Mayo because that is a vast county, as Senator O'Toole said, and people there must travel up to 100 miles to Galway or any other county.

In relation to the speed limits, I agree with the Minister that 55 miles per hour is a bit too slow on certain roads. One hundred kilometres, that is 62.5 miles per hour, would be more realistic. I would also advocate that the speed limit on our dual carriageways should be increased to 70 miles per hour because, with dual carriageways today and with modern technology now being used in motor cars, people can safely travel at 70 miles per hour. In regard to the speed limit system, speed limit meters should be put in place, particularly on our dual carriageways. In Europe they are placed on minor roads that cross dual carriageways. They automatically take a photograph of any car that exceeds the speed limit. Motorists stick rigidly to the 70 miles per hour because it is very easy to pick up eight or ten tickets if they do not and, at £50 a fine one will not travel very far. If one is working for an employer it will not be too long before one is dismissed. Just knowing that those speed limit meters are there will ensure that the motorist will not take a chance because he will not know when he will come upon one.

In relation to drunken driving, I concur totally with all that the Minister has said. I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone driving a vehicle under the influence of alcohol. Out of 11,000 persons breathalysed in 1986, 8,000 came before the courts. This shows the serious situation that exists here. I know we are not alone in this and it happens in most countries. Driving under the influence of alcohol is irresponsible; it can lead to loss of life and untold grief for the bereaved. Unfortunately these things happen and far too often. I will only be too delighted to lend my total and wholehearted support to anything that will tighten up the law here. Not only does one have to look out for oneself but one must look out for the person in the other car. There is an appalling situation and it is about time that something was done to make the laws far more strict. I would go so far as to say that drunken drivers should be banned from driving for five years. It is one of the greatest crimes, a person driving a motor car under the influence of alcohol can endanger hundreds of people.

I fully support the motion and I urge the Minister to do all in his power to upgrade the standard of our roads. They are at an all-time low at the moment. Communication by air waves and by telephone is important but road and rail are as important today as they ever were. I fully support the motion.

Mr. Doherty

I support this motion. I do not want to repeat what has already been said. I would like to see some of the allocation for national primary roads going towards the secondary roads as most of our national primary roads are up to quite a good standard. Our national secondary roads seem to be in a bad state, and some of them carry as high a volume of traffic as the primary roads. I would like if perhaps the Minister would take this into consideration and see if we could get an allocation for national secondary roads as well.

There has been a lot of comment made about overladen articulated trucks using our roads. Our county road network was surfaced originally for the ass and cart. Then, in the last 20 years or so modern farm machinery came in and some of our county roads were turned back into mud tracks. It looks as if some of those roads will be no-go areas soon unless the block grant is restored to local authorities. The block grant was the backbone of the development and resurfacing of our county roads. With a 14 per cent cut in our support grant, our roads will fall into a greater state of deterioration and that will be a sad day for the people of rural Ireland. We have responsibility for the people who live off county roads as well as those who live off national primary routes. We could even go further. The local improvements scheme which was enacted approximately 15 years ago was a wonderful scheme. Under it local roads which were nothing more than mud tracks were surfaced and made traversable. We are now in the position where we cannot make passible a road or a boreen to a person's house where there is only one holding. Those unfortunate people who live in rural areas had no say about where they were born. They were born in a backward part of the country but nobody has come to their rescue and given them a grant to improve the approach to their residences. The Minister should consider extending the local improvements scheme to cover roads leading to a house where there is only one family using that road. There may be only one person living off that road but others may have property alongside it. Those people whould be entitled to a local improvements scheme grant.

I do not want to dwell on imports and exports but it is important to point out that our road network has improved immensely over the past 30 years. However, in the past four or five years our country, main and national secondary roads have fallen into a state of disrepair. Most local authorities are concerned. Some of them, such as Longford County Council, the second smallest county in Ireland, with 600 miles of county roads, have admitted that the allocation for those roads means that every 45 years we will get around to repairing a road. Having regard to the average lifespan of people, it looks like such roads will be resurfaced once in their lifetime. Is that a christian way to treat people living in rural areas? Their home is their castle and if they have not got a decent avenue into their home there will be a greater flight from rural areas than at present. I am sorry I had to change from the emphasis of previous speakers.

Mr. O'Callaghan

I welcome the opportunity to address this rather thorny subject of roads. It evolves around road maintenance. The motion seeks proper and adequate control over the activities of overladen vehicles and so on. We want to at least arrest in some shape or form the huge deterioration taking place particularly, as my colleague Senator Doherty has said, on national, secondary and county roads. It is a huge problem in rural parts of the country.

I should like to refer to one aspect which has not been referred to and which is particularly relevant to the Department of the Environment. We will have to look very seriously in the future, under the aegis of our planning Acts, at whether the condition of roads adjacent to proposed industrial development areas are suitable for the kind of vehicular traffic that will increase by virtue of its proximity to this industrial location.

In my own constituency the town of Castletownbere was designated in the mid-sixties as a major fisheries port. Considerable Government investment has taken place in that port since then. The initial costs to develop the port were in excess of £15 million but despite that very successful debate in that now we have magnificent fisheries facilities there is no proper road into the town. The officials of the Department of Fisheries must have known that a fisheries port of that dimension would mean that there would be a constant convoy of 16-wheel articulated refrigerated trucks traversing between Castletownbere and Spain, France, the U.K. and other northern European countries on an hourly basis. It has reached the stage where certain hauliers, international and national, are now refusing to take produce from that port because of the serious deterioration that takes place in their trucking fleet by virtue of the requirement of having to go to Castle-townbere to haul fish.

The other side of that coin is that as a result of the substantial development in our creamery industry once obscure branches of co-ops are now being serviced on a daily basis, quite often twice daily, by huge articulated trucks traversing on what can only be described as boreens which are deteriorating by the minute, because it is the responsibility of the Department of the Environment to direct our planning officials. County councils quite often meet, deputations from co-ops complaining about the high costs to the co-ops of taxing their vehicles and so on but they are not particularly interested when the contra argument is put, that the high cost to the local authority of maintaining the roads arises because of the damage these totally unsuitable collection vehicles are causing to our county roads. This has a planning dimension and it is something that should be borne in mind in the context of general overall industrial development in the future. If we are to proceed with industrial development, particularly in rural areas, a contribution towards the up-grading of the road in that immediate vicinity will have to be an ingredient in the grant contribution either by the IDA or by the local authority or whoever is deemed to be the relevant authority to ensure that the road is kept in some kind of reasonable condition. I ask the Minister to bear that in mind.

I should like to refer to one or two other points which relate to our desire for new legislation. We have a great facility for introducing new legislation on a regular basis. Traffic and parking by-laws are a classic case in point but, despite the sizeable proliferation in traffic control legislation in recent years one can walk down any street in any town and find vehicles parked on footpaths, obstructing people trying to push prams, those of retarded vision and so on. Quite often, I suspect it is a superfluous exercise to introduce all types of fancy traffic controls into our legislation when at the end of the day there is no great effort made to implement those regulations. Yet if one drives at 41 miles an hour at the edge of town one may be stopped by a Garda who may say: "Sorry, I must take your details because you are in excess of the speed limit." Yet all the other equally relevant and equally important pieces of legislation that relate to the control of traffic seem to be totally ignored. The same applies to the casual trading legislation for example. Huge tracts of car parks in every town are being used for this purpose on a regular basis.

An Cathaoirleach

I should have cut across several of my colleagues earlier on. I wish you would have read the wording of the motion before me and, indeed, the amendment to the motion, because Senators have run a little amuck.

Mr. O'Callaghan

I was being led by my predecessor but of course I will follow your directions.

An Cathaoirleach

He would not be the one to be led by.

Mr. O'Callaghan

I accept your ruling, of course. If I may touch briefly on the amendment in relation to the position of drinking and driving, we get some sanctimonious pronouncements from time to time about the necessity for imposing with great vehemence the drunken driving legislation. Nobody would deny that necessity by virtue of the facts. We all have occasion quite often to attend funerals of persons killed in traffic accidents and so on. A serious way of redressing that situation would involve the occasions where people consume excessive amounts of drink. I could cite discos, for example, as a classic case in point. We have had a number of very serious tragedies quite adjacent to this city in recent years caused by people speeding on their way to or from discos and so on in the middle of night. There appears to be no great degree of control over what is happening.

There is a great deal of apprehension among people who do not consume at any time in their lives excessive amounts of alcohol or do not drive their vehicles when they have taken excessive amounts of alcohol and yet can be caught and prosecuted and put off the road, suffering all the other attached embarrassments involved in a drunken driving prosecution. Yet one only has to be in the precincts of a dancehall on a Sunday night to find, not one, two or three, but hundreds of cars being driven with great indiscretion and in excess of the speed limit. This is something that should be looked at by the Garda authorities.

Mr. Lanigan

This motion which was put down in the names of the Fianna Fáil group in the Seanad is one that has full support from both sides of the House. There is a need to ensure implementation of all laws involved in the enforcement of traffic regulations. This morning anyone who drove up from the country would have seen that traffic regulations were not being adhered to, particularly in the case of a number of very heavy trucks from the North of Ireland going through this country at speeds definitely in excess of 60 miles an hour and with defective lights. One should not ordinarily need lights in the morning, but this morning there was fog and very heavy rain. These vehicles did not have adequate protection over their tyres and as a result the spray coming back made certain that nobody could pass them. They were travelling at speeds in excess of 60 or 70 miles an hour. I would guarantee that if 90 per cent of these trucks had been stopped, they would not have been found to have tacho-graphs; they would not have been seen to have tyres which were of adequate standard; they would not at all have been up to the standards that people in the south of Ireland with trucks of the same size have to adhere to.

I am not suggesting that all the problems of the control of traffic relate to trucks from the North of Ireland or trucks which come in from the Continent. But it has to be said that an Irish truck, on arrival from an Irish port at Liverpool, France or elsewhere is checked immediately. There is a check of the tachograph and in respect of weight. There is also a check as to whether the driver has consumed alcohol to excess. Trucks coming in here from the Continent are not checked to the same extent. If an Irish truck is pulled in at Liverpool, it cannot leave the holding station there if the tachograph is not working or if the tyres are not up to standard. But a truck coming in here from England will not be held in custody until the driver gets his tachograph or his tyres changed.

I cannot for the life of me see why Irish vehicles going abroad have to adhere to normal EC standards when trucks coming in here from abroad do not have to adhere to the same standards. If an Irish truck is stopped on the road in Belgium, France, Holland, Germany, Denmark, Spain, Portugal or Greece it will not be allowed back on the road unless it is brought up to standard. Here, if a truck comes in from outside the jurisdiction it is stopped and the driver will get an indication of a fine for the problem, whether it be for bad tyres, overloading or not having a tachograph and then he can just drive away, whereas the Irish truck must remain on the side of the road until someone deals with the problem. If we are going to have law enforcement in the EC, it should be across the board enforcement. Irish road hauliers have to operate from a legal base that is much more strict than that which has to be adhered to by trucks coming in here from outside Ireland. Again, an observation of the speed limit, in the North of Ireland the truck driver is the person deemed to be guilty of speeding, whereas if a truck driver in the south of Ireland is caught speeding, the owner of the truck and the driver are at fault.

Our roads are not fit for some of the loads that are being carried, in particular, by vehicles coming in from outside. It was suggested that there should be an increase from 38 to 40 tonnes on the loads that could be legally carried by Irish road hauliers. I would agree with this if they are going abroad. If they are carrying a load from Ireland to the Continent, they should be allowed to carry the load which is the legal limit, at least the legal limit going abroad. Very few of these trucks drive for many miles on Irish roads with heavy loads. They get to the Continent and they are able to carry the 40 tonnes maximum. If they are stopped before they reach an Irish port, they can be summoned for overloading. An Italian truck coming in with 40 tonnes on board is legally entitled to carry 40 tonnes on board but why should an Italian truck driving on Irish roads be legally entitled to carry 40 tonnes whereas an Irish truck on Irish roads is not legally entitled to carry similar weight but only 38 tonnes? That truck gets to the Continent and it is all right.

I have mentioned that Irish drivers in general are not great at observing the statutory speed limits. We should have a legal system whereby certain roads had a higher speed limit than others. There is no doubt that on dual carriageways or on motorways one can travel at a higher speed than on a national secondary or county road. The parking by-laws, in certain areas are a farce. In Kilkenny that is not the case because the by-laws are strictly adhered to and the number of cases being taken against those who park illegally is growing every week.

The unroadworthiness of vehicles is a major problem. There is no unroadworthy Irish registered vehicle because every Irish registered vehicle has to undertake a Department of the Environment test on a regular basis whereas those vehicles entering this country from Northern Ireland can move freely without a Department of the Environment certificate. Vehicles from Northern Ireland which have a Ministry of Trade certificate from the North are operating here. They are being used by hauliers from the North in the South because they know there is nothing that can be done to them.

This motion was put down in an effort to ensure that those who use our roads can use them safely. It is a plea to the Minister to ensure that vehicles which are unroadworthy should not be on the roads. Private cars in this country do not need to have a Department of the Environment certificate and it is about time they did. A commercial motor vehicle has to go through a test on a regular basis and why should a private car not have to do the same test? Anybody who drives from here to Cork or Kilkenny tonight will see the one-eyed monsters coming against them — the lads who have not even replaced headlights. As they travel away from you, you will be able to see that they have not replaced their tail lights. If they have not replaced either their tail lights or headlights one can imagine what their tyres and their suspensions must be like. One of the reasons for putting down this motion is to ensure that from a very early stage we will have compulsory testing of all motor vehicles in this country.

Amendment No. 1 agreed to.

Amendment No. 2 not moved.

Motion, as amended, agreed to.

An Cathaoirleach

When is it proposed to sit again?

Mr. Lanigan

It is proposed to sit at 10.30 a.m. tomorrow.