Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 Oct 1987

Vol. 117 No. 3

Adjournment Matter. - County Kilkenny School Building Projects.

Mr. Hogan

I wish to put before the House on the Adjournment this evening the subject matter of a number of building projects in County Kilkenny, particularly in the primary school area about which I am extremely concerned to get them started as soon as possible. The first one I refer to is Lisdowney national school. This school was built in 1829 by Lord Mountgarret, two years before the commencement of Stanley's national school system. To date that school has never been replaced by a permanent structure. In 1956, when the school had been in operation for a century and a quarter and was in a dreadful condition, with rats competing with teachers for lunch, application was made for a new school. The process begun at that time is still continuing, the dates of the excuses being the only things that have changed. The struggle to gain a school for the children in this locality, which I am sure the Minister will agree is their fundamental right, has continued under the patronage of three bishops, the management of three parish priests and through the passage of three decades. At present the children of Lisdowney have no school. The insurance company are not prepared to insure the building any longer because of the risk it would impose on the children and teachers.

When one peruses the history of this school, a number of interesting but depressing points emerge. First, plans and specifications for a new permanent school were drawn up in 1965 at a cost of £4,500. Two years later a prefabricated structure was put in place at a cost of £4,500 and seven years later a general purposes room was added at a cost of £3,650. By 1978 the new school of 11 years' standing had been condemned by the medical officer and the Department of Education refused any further grants for the upkeep of this temporary structure.

Since the erection of the present building, enrolment has grown from 45 in 1967 to 85 at present. The school now has three teachers. This is probably due to the fact that Lisdowney is in the shadow of Avonmore Creameries which have provided very important employment in the area. In October of 1984 the Chief State solicitor, in a letter to the chairman of the board of management, indicated that he was preparing a lease for the new school. Plans for the new school were prepared in 1984 at a then cost of £185,000. Those plans are still in place in the Department of Education but the estimated cost is now £240,000.

In view of the fact that the existing building has been condemned by the area medical officer, by the environmental health officer, by the INTO, by the Department of Education when they said in 1978 that they would refuse to pay any further grants towards the upkeep of the school and in view of the fact that the insurance company are not prepared to underwrite the risk at that school any more, the provision of a new school is long since overdue.

Mr. J. O'Toole

Hear, hear.

Mr. Hogan

The reason advanced for not proceeding with the new school is the state of the nation's finances. To the people of Lisdowney, after 30 years of waiting, this has certainly a familiar ring to it. In the meantime, the people of the surrounding parishes have been provided with excellent educational facilities. In fact, within a radius of ten miles £2 million has been spent on various new schools and extensions to existing schools. The question is not the entitlement of other parishes which have benefited from these facilities, but it seems that the building of a school in Lisdowney would not have such dire consequences for the nation's coffers.

The people of Lisdowney have met, through their various representatives, the officials of the Department of Education and various efforts have been made to arrive at a compromise. A full school building as planned to be provided with the minimum delay will be their first demand. However, they have a number of fall-back positions which the Department of Education have been investigating. First, if a full school building as planned by the Department is not feasible in view of their financial situation, perhaps a more scaled down version could be provided. A structure could be erected as soon as possible by the local community with grant-aid from the Department of Education to enable the children to go back to school. It has been estimated by local people who have professional qualifications that the cost of providing such a school could not incur any more expenditure than £120,000. When one considers the local contribution of £30,000 and that the Department of Education are providing £45,000 for temporary accommodation in the form of prefabricated buildings, that sum of money would go a long way towards initiating the project in Lisdowney within a matter of weeks. I know that Mr. Rowley from the Department of Education has been in the area and has provided the Minister with the technical details of how the community would be in a position to provide this expertise and get the work in progress as soon as possible.

I can assure the Minister that the board of management are not in a position to provide schooling facilities for the children. The children of the fifties are now the parents of the eighties in that area. In no circumstances, will pupils be allowed to return to the existing building. All possible democratic means at the disposal of the people of Lisdowney have been exerted on the Department to provide a new permanent school with the greatest possible efficiency and within the minimum amount of time. Every cooperation would be given to the Department to carry out that work. I appeal to the Minister to look sympathetically on the project as outlined by the local community.

The second matter is the Graiguenamanagh boys' national school. This school was built in 1929. It consists of three rooms, two of which are divided by a mere partition. The management are faced with providing facilities for 120 pupils and four teachers. The main hall cum cloakroom, with wash-hand basin and toilets nowhere near the building, and in an appalling condition, provides the entrance to the classrooms and also provides storage facilities for the equipment of the school. Two prefabs have been provided since 1970. They have rotted away over the years, leading to rat infestation. There is no general purpose room, no PE room or no staff room. As at Lisdowney, Dickensian conditions persist in the area. Again this school has gone to tender, but the contract has not been sanctioned. The management were assured by the Department of Education over a year ago that they would get first priority in County Kilkenny for a new national school. I would be grateful if the Minister could tell us what kind of timescale we are talking about in getting a new national school for Graiguenamanagh.

In relation to Moneenroe national school, I understand that improvement works were carried out during the summer. This work involved the provision of new windows and various structural repairs. The amount of the contribution which will be expected from the people of the Moneenroe area should take into account the high unemployment in the area. The local contribution should be as minimal as possible and, perhaps, the Minister will give us an idea as to what will be expected from the community and tell us the total cost of the work being carried out there at present.

I now want to deal with Castlecomer community school. It has been the policy of the Department of Education for a number of years to promote the concept of community schools and this in the long term will remove many of the administration costs and provide a more efficient second level education system for pupils in a wide area. With that in mind, the Presentation Convent in Castlecomer and the local Vocational Education Committee decided to amalgamate to form a community school in Castlecomer. Everything that the board of management of the community school were asked to do was carried out and the community school came into being formally on 1 July 1987. This was done on the understanding that the new building project which was promised by the Department of Education would commence in 1987. It would be regarded as a breach of faith and a breach of the commitment given by the Department to the board of management if this project does not begin. The board of management made their plans on the basis that this project would begin in 1987 and all that remains to be done is for the contractor to commence his operations and he is already known to the board of management.

The school will cater for between 600 to 620 pupils in the 1987-88 school year in the most appalling conditions. They would tolerate another winter — this winter — in order to provide those educational facilities but they certainly would not tolerate a second winter because the prefabricated structures which are scattered around the various schools at present will not be there for a second winter. The teachers and children of Castlecomer deserve to know now when construction of this building will commence and I hope that the Minister will be able to tell us this evening that it will be started shortly. I look forward to his reply. Perhaps, Senator O'Toole would also like to say a few words.

Mr. J. O'Toole

Go raibh maith agat, a Sheanadóir, as ucht an cúpla nóiméad seo a thabhairt dom. I want to compliment the Minister for being able to come back here, like a rubber ball, for a third or fourth time to deal with a lengthening list of primary schools which appear to be becoming the homes of the rodent population of Ireland. I want to talk about Lisdowney in particular. I have inspected the school and I met the principal, Mr. Larry Hamilton, and his staff. They are a decent, hard-working and committed people who, against all the odds, have provided an excellent service in that area over the years.

The national school system in Ireland was founded in 1831 but Lisdowney primary school was built in 1829. Therefore, it is two years older than the whole system. It is twice the age of the State. What has been written about it, in terms of inspection and in terms of people going into the place, would make a very good novel or a very good local history at this stage. I want to refer to one report that was written about the school in 1956. In that report the writer stated that he observed rats competing for lunch with members of the teaching staff. I am told they have had repetition of the same event intermittently over the past 30 years.

I am not going to go into the particular details of the case because they have been dealt with very comprehensively by the previous speaker. All I would like to say is that the pupils, the parents and the people of Lisdowney have been treated diabolically by the system over the years and they deserve every support at this point. I hope that the Minister is not going to stand up again today and tell us what happened during the term of the last Government because the one thing that the teachers, the parents and pupils in this area do not want to know is the history part of it. They want to know what is happening now and where they are going from this point on.

It is now the responsibility of the Minister to take this problem in hand and resolve it. The parents, teachers and management are at one on the matter; there is total agreement on it. It speaks volumes for the commitment of the people of this area that having seen the Department of Education's project, which was costed at £260,000, stopped — this is how they see it, the Department would see it otherwise — and certainly procrastinated on it, they drew up and sought tenders on a similar set of plans which would allow them build a similar structure for £130,000 or half the price.

I think that that is a very good deal — it means the saving of £130,000. The Minister could sort out the problems at Frenchpark with the same amount of money. He could build two for the price of one. If he let the business people of Lisdowney take over the disadvantaged schools in Ireland and let them present plans and provide builders they would do a far better job than what is being done at present. It is a bit unfair on those working in the building section in the Department of Education, who have had their backs to the wall on this mainly because they are not getting the support of the Government on it. I believe that this outmoded, substandard structure must be replaced. The lack of movement by the Department and by the Minister is a clear abrogation of their duties and responsibilities.

The physical condition of the school makes the implementation of the curriculum impossible. The health of both pupils and parents is suffering and the development and progress of pupils, both their psychological and educational development, are seriously inhibited. There is no way in those circumstances that the primary school curriculum can be in any way effectively taught. This Seanad must demand of the Minister and of the Department that the educational service to the pupils of Lisdowney be restored. It can only be done by the provision of an alternative and acceptable new building. What I saw there really put me in a rage and it cannot be allowed to continue. I call on the Minister of State, and on the Minister for Education to take up their responsibilities and to take action on this matter immediately.

There has been a mountain of verbiage spoken on this problem and there has been tons of correspondence and leaflets and many phone calls about it. It is now time we saw some action. I appeal to the Minister to tell us about some action in this case. We would like to hear of some action rather than a history of the school to date. Similarly, on the other schools, only one of which I have personal experience but which fit into the same category, I ask the Minister to give us a positive response today.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Mr. F. Fahey)

First, I will deal with Castlecomer community school. The architectural planning for this project has now been completed and tenders were received some time ago. The next stage is the awarding of the contract. Unfortunately, because of the financial constraints I do not envisage that it will be possible to place a contract for this project earlier than 1989.

Lisdowney national school has an average enrolment of 85 pupils and the staffing comprises of three teachers, including the principal. The accommodation consists of three teaching spaces, two of which were originally provided as classrooms and a third as a general purposes area. The last mentioned is now used as a classroom. The whole of this building was grant-aided by my Department and is of prefabricated construction. My Department have accepted an application from the school authorities for a grant for a replacement building of traditional construction to comprise three classrooms, a general purposes area and the usual ancillary accommodation.

The project has reached the stage where tenders are being sought and examined. It is one of a number where the next stage will be the placing of a contract. Unfortunately, again, because of the difficult financial climate, my Department are not in a position to proceed to the next step. This has been explained to the school authorities by my Department who have also stated that the only relief that can be offered is a grant for the provision of new prefabricated classrooms and toilets. In response to this, as both Senators mentioned, the school authorities recently put forward certain alternative proposals to us in the Department.

I have to acknowledge that the present prefabricated accommodation at Lisdowney is unsatisfactory and the provision of a new school building would be the ideal solution to the school's current difficulties. Unfortunately, because of the financial constraints which I have mentioned I am not in a position to approve the placing of a contract for the permanent building as proposed. However, I wish to assure the House that the practicability and the cost implications of the recent proposals, to which both Senators referred, which have been submitted by the school authorities are being examined as a matter of urgency and a decision on these will be conveyed to the school authorities at an early date. We are keen to examine proposals from communities such as this one which involve a substantial reduction in cost. Because of the difficult financial situation this is the only way that I can see us making any significant progress in the coming period.

With regard to Graiguenamanagh school which has an enrolment of 132 pupils and staffing comprising four teachers, including the principal, the present accommodation consists of three classrooms of traditional construction and two prefabricated classrooms. The proposal is to provide a new school comprising four classrooms, a general purpose area and the usual ancillary accommodation. The existing school building is to be demolished. Tenders for the new school building were received in my Department on 12 May last and they are at present being examined. However, irrespective of the outcome of the examination of the tenders it will not be possible, because of the difficult financial climate which I have already referred to in the case of the Lisdowney project, to proceed immediately with the placing of a contract for the Graiguenamanagh project. My Department will communicate with the school authorities as soon as the examination of the tenders has been completed.

With regard to Mooneenroe national school, my information is that a major scheme of improvements has recently been completed with substantial grant-aid from my Department. The works covered attention to toilets, heating and lighting installations, provision of a teachers' room and replacement of windows and doors. My understanding is that there is general satisfaction locally at the outcome of this scheme and this school is now operational in its improved condition. I am not aware of any difficulties with regard to the contribution which Senator Hogan mentioned but I will bring any such difficulties to the attention of my Department.

Mr. Hogan

On a point of information, I did not suggest that there are difficulties but I am asking the Minister if he could supply me personally with information about how sympathetically the Department are looking at the local percentage contribution in view of the high unemployment rate in the area. Normally a percentage contribution is given by various communities but an exception should be made in this case so that the people in the area would not have to make a contribution.

Mr. F. Fahey

Has that not been fixed?

Mr. Hogan

It may have been fixed since I put down my question in the Seanad but I would like to get clarification on it at a later date.

Mr. F. Fahey

The Department will provide you with the information of what contribution has been demanded and if you are not happy with the level I would be glad to discuss it further with you. I am sorry that the news is not positive. I feel the same way as the Senators do about the condition of those schools and I am sorry that I cannot report any progress. It is a serious problem but the financial state of the country dictates it to be like this. I do not see any major improvement in the foreseeable future.

Mr. Hogan

May I be allowed 30 seconds——

Acting Chairman (Mr. Mullooly)

I will allow just one question.

Mr. Hogan

Can the Minister tell us when the decision on the alternative proposal will be made and conveyed to the board of management of Lisdowney school? I was sorry to hear the Minister talk about 1989 for Castlecomer. That will be a major disappointment for the people of that area. If he had said 1988 it would not be as bad. Perhaps the Minister could reconsider that date in view of the fact that the school caters for such a large number of pupils.

Mr. J. O'Toole

You will have to make sure that there is no change of Government; they might have a different set of priorities.

Mr. F. Fahey

One of my priorities at all times is to be realistic. I could be optimistic by saying 1988 but it is not going to happen, it will be 1989. The Department are considering the proposals as a matter of urgency but I do not anticipate it will take very long for us to respond to the school authorities.

Mr. Hogan

Will it be this week?

Mr. F. Fahey

Last week maybe.

The Seanad adjourned at 4.25 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 14 October 1987.