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Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Nov 1987

Vol. 117 No. 11

Adjournment Matter. - Council for the Status of Women.

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach for giving me time to raise this matter on the Adjournment. I have been seeking this debate since before the recess. I welcome the Minister of State to the House and wish her well. She has a very difficult job and it is not easy at this time to be in Government.

The Government are not only disregarding the needs of women but are treating them and their organisations with utter disdain. Since Fianna Fáil came into Government and hacked and slashed at the many structures that had been put in place for women in the previous four years they have created a great sense of anger among women throughout the country. The Taoiseach did a grave disservice to the Minister of State by so casually giving her the responsibility for the Council for the Status of Women. This was done by way of answer to a parliamentary question and could not have been anything but an afterthought. It is very regrettable that women are not to have the understanding, concern and support they got from the Coalition Government but are to be subjected to the cavalier treatment now being handed out to them by the Minister and her colleagues.

I regret that the Taoiseach did the Minister of State such a great disservice in the manner in which he treated her. No one yet knows what the parameters of her responsibilities are, what role she plays or what funding she is responsible for. It is a dreadful waste of a good and capable politician and an experienced Minister. I, like many others, have a great deal of regard for the Minister of State and know her commitment to women's rights which was demonstrated so clearly in her years as chairperson of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Women's Rights. No one could doubt her personal commitment and her own understanding of the expectations and the need of Irish women. However, I must address the Minister of State now, not in her personal capacity but in her capacity as Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, with responsibility for the Council for the Status of Women.

I appeal to the Minister for understanding and openness to the issue of the funding being allocated for the coming year to the council. The funding as listed in the Book of Estimates for the coming year stands at £90,000. This is the sole and only funding being given directly to this women's umbrella group at a time when the lack of a special Government section such as we had in the last Government is being felt very severely. I do not want the Minister of State to say that in real terms she is maintaining and even improving the budget for the council on past years. This is not a valid claim. It is not valid because the work load, the output, the postage expenses and the numberous demands on the council's staff have multiplied greatly. This is because they are now carrying on a great deal of the work that had been done by the women's affairs section which had a very extensive staff.

Just because a Taoiseach decides he is not continuing the Government section for women's affairs does not mean that the needs and expectations that section dealt with should cease to exist. They do not, and they existed long before I came to office as the first Minister of State for Women's Affairs. It is not good enough to fund the Council for the Status of Women, which represents 60 women's organisations and 250,000 women, in a way that only allows them to tick over. Many of the delegates to the council seriously fear they will be the next organisation to be annexed to some Government Department as is the fate of the Health Education Bureau, An Foras Forbartha and the National Social Service Board.

This organisation, the Council for the Status of Women, is the only conduit for women now for information, representation and educational needs. What is to happen to all the crisis groups over which my section had discretionary funding in the past four years? These ranged from the Rape Crisis Centre — which exists, and there are centres throughout the country who depended heavily on the funding I gave them — to the AIM group which gives a free service to people with marriage difficulties and Women's Aid. The important work they do must continue to be funded. As this Department is not a funding Department there is nowhere they can now go.

In the past four years my office succeeded in financing a variety of small groups, many on a once-off basis. This was a lifeline to organisations, small or big, like the Widows' Association, Gingerbread, or small groups such as the Darndale Women's Group or the Tallaght Adult Education Group. The money now at the disposal of the Council for the Status of Women will not stretch to these groups. In fact, it will not even pay the postage on the many information booklets which were produced by the Women's Affairs section and have been transferred over to the council offices. It will not stretch to the very essential monitoring of the UN Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women. It is, sadly, unable to meet the everyday needs of its delegate groups.

In this context accommodation problems have become so great that the meeting room used by groups for meeting in the city centre has now become an office. I suggest to the Minister for State that perhaps she would visit the council's offices and see how difficult their work has become. The knock-on effect of this accommodation problem has meant that their affiliate groups have to turn to hotels or other halls on a commercial basis for their regular meetings, AGMs or seminars, all of which were held previously in the main hall of the council's offices. I have to question the commitment for a women's house or centre, as my section was negotiating for them with the Office of Public Works prior to the election. I would suggest the Minister for State and, indeed, the Minister for Education, Deputy O'Rourke — both of whom are capable women — are being very badly let down by their male colleagues in office.

The suggestion was made by both the Taoiseach and the Minister for Industry and Commerce that all Government Departments were receptive to and supportive of issues relating to women. Did that mean that all special events or positive action programmes could be scrapped? I wonder was the Minister for State or, indeed, Deputy O'Rourke consulted before Deputy Reynolds scrapped, so ungenerously and unceremoniously, the successful Women in Enterprise programme? If the Minister for State was consulted, what did she say? Her male colleagues claim that such positive action measures are no longer needed. I feel it is not necessary to tell a long-time politician like the Minister for State that all Departments of State are men's affairs. Departments and issues of special interest to women do not get the profile or the priority that in many cases they deserve.

I must take this opportunity to inform the Minister for State of the general difficulties the Government programme of cutbacks is having on many women, particularly women in the lower socioeconomic grouping. I will give the Minister for State some instances. We no longer have St. James' Hospital with a maternity unit which had such an excellent record in its maternity services. Although it has dealt with one of the highest numbers of women from a low socio-economic background, it had the lowest perinatal mortality rate in Ireland, if not, indeed, in Europe. Because of its size it gave women great privacy. It gave women, who normally would not have a high level of comfort, a relative luxury for the length of time they were in hospital having a baby. One of the worrying aspects, apart from the fact that these mothers now have to go to the Coombe Hospital, is that the midwifery service that was so excellently available in St. James' seems to have disappeared. Nobody knows where the midwives who worked in that unit now are. Nobody can find out whether they have been absorbed into general nursing in St. James', or if they have left. It would be regrettable, indeed, if either happened. They are going to lose very valuable skills of midwifery which, I believe, is a diminishing skill.

Looking at the other three main maternity hospitals, we now see a policy where mothers are being discharged as soon as 48 hours after birth. This is happening in Holles Street, the Coombe and the Rotunda. This also includes single mothers who would have the degree of support and assistance of their husbands and families. This has meant that babies cannot get their PKU test done at that time. This is very serious because this test, as well as the BCG vaccination, is preventative medicine at its best. It is not valid to say that the mothers are asked and do respond when it is suggested that they come back for the PKU test because many of the mothers would not be aware of the importance of this test.

Added to this, in the Dublin area we have the closing down of the ante-natal clinics and the health centres in suburban areas. Tallaght, which has the same population as Limerick, now has no ante-natal clinic whatsoever. These were an enormous improvement for women, particularly poor women living in built-up areas, because the hospital personnel, in effect, came out to them. This meant that women were monitored regularly. The personnel dealing with them could identify problems in advance, such as postnatal depression. All of this has led to an outrageous waiting time for ante-natal visits due to the fact that women are coming in from suburban areas and the number of births that were being catered for at St. James's now have to be accommodated in the other hospitals. While we accept that this Government have got to make cutbacks and to restrict services in areas of the public service, one has to question how, for instance, they can have opted to effect pay increases for civil servants at the expense of poor women and their babies.

The maternity hospital in Lough-linstown is the latest hospital at risk. If this is taken away there will be no facility for maternity services between Holles Street and Wexford. This will leave a vast area of north Wicklow without the very good facilities that now exist in Lough-linstown.

These are all issues that are valid and important to women and affect them very closely. They are issues that are not being highlighted in the media and are not being brought forward to Government. I am taking the opportunity while the Minister of State is here to put these cases to her. I must stress at this time the severe burden that many women are carrying in their homes, in their communities, in the maternity hospitals, in the care of the aged and in voluntary community care — all due to the severe cutbacks in Government spending and also through unemployment and redundancies. This was borne out particularly today when we read the NESC report which was published yesterday. The NESC in a comment on the report prepared by Miss Síle O'Connor said, "Care in the community and family will not simply happen". They noted that families, for instance, may require access to services such as nursing, meals on wheels, home help and other services if they are to sustain care for dependent relatives in their homes and communities. But public health nursing is under the increasing pressure, the report notes. Home helps who provide meals and other services for people who are ill or incapaciated are available only to a minority. They said there is also marked under-provision of day centres, day hospitals and geriatric assessment units. Services for the physically and mentally handicapped have developed little since the start of this decade, the report says.

That catalogue of difficulties that many women are experiencing at the moment will, I hope, be noted by the Minister of State who is a mother. She is aware of the difficulties and problems of women in the community. Women have become accustomed, in the last Administration, to having an advocate in Government and a special section dealing with their queries, their representations and the need for information. It was a section that promoted positive action and influenced policies and the thinking of our State and semi-State bodies. I appeal to the Minister of State, knowing her awareness and understanding of the issues of women, to take on the role of advocate for women and to put some pressure on her colleagues. Without it, women and women's organisations will continue to go by the board.

First, my reply this evening will be based on and confined to the terms of the motion before the Seanad, which is concerned specifically with the severe under-funding of the Council for the Status of Women. Secondly, I wish to say that one of my responsibilities as a Minister of State is for the co-ordination of Government policy in all areas of Government and that includes the area of women's rights. Those matters which the Senator brought to my attention in relation to the health policy will be passed by me, in that capacity as Minister with responsibility for co-ordinating Government policy on women's rights, to my colleague, Dr. Rory O'Hanlon. I have not doubt that between myself and himself, we can come to some arrangements to ensure that the kind of difficulties that are being experienced at the moment will at least be investigated thoroughly and, hopefully, we may be in a position to eradicate or certainly alleviate some of the problems.

The motion before the Seanad this evening is critical of the funding for the Council for the Status of Women. The position in relation to Government financing of the council is that the amount allocated was £88,000 in 1986 when Senator Fennell was Minister of State for Women's Affairs. A sum of £88,000 was also provided in 1987 and there is £90,000 included in the Estimates for the Public Services for 1988 for the finances of the council. In fact then there has been no reduction in that grant despite the fact that economic realities constrain the Government to reduce public expenditure wherever possible and that there have, of necessity, been substantial reductions in expenditure in other areas. The position for 1988 must be set in the context of the overall reductions of £485 million that have had to be made in the 1988 Estimates.

The position as regards 1987 is interesting. By the time this Government assumed office on 10 March 1987 the expenditure already incurred by Senator Fennell, as Minister of State, under the appropriate subhead for 1987, this year, amounted to just under £28,000. If spending had continued for the remainder of 1987 at the same rate as in this brief period of months approximately £150,000 would have gone on promotion and information, and to support and development activities and grants other than to the Council for the Status of Women. This would have left a very small amount available to the council had the Minister of State been returned to office.

As Senator Fennell feels so strongly that the council is underfunded it is only reasonable to ask why the council did not get a larger share of the total provision in the appropriate subhead for each of the four-and-a-half years in which she was Minister of State for Women's Affairs and had considerable discretionary control of the money in the subhead for her office. For example, the position for 1986 is that she as Minister of State for Women's Affairs decided that the council should have £88,000 of the total provision of £189,000 and that she herself would decide on the allocation of the remaining £101,000 to such support and development projects and activities as she chose to assist.

On any objective criteria some of the causes and activities she chose to assist deserved support if the means were available but what I cannot understand is that if she feels that the council with a grant level of £88,000 in 1987 and £90,000 proposed for next year, is seriously underfunded, why did she not raise that grant significantly — indeed double it — when it was in her power to do so?

On the question of grants to organisations other than the council active in the area of women's affairs, the position is that such organisations will no longer be in receipt of public funds through the Department of the Taoiseach. I would like to make it quite clear, however, that those organisations carrying out particularly important work will still be eligible to apply for assistance to the health boards, to the Department of Social Welfare under their grants to voluntary bodies scheme, and to the Combat Poverty Agency.

I accept that the council and a number of its member organisations could use additional funds productively. The fact is that the Government simply do not have the option of generally increasing the levels of funding available to interest groups, however important their aims and however worthwhile the work they do. No area of activity is immune from economic realities.

With regard to the Women in Business Enterprise Campaign, the Government believe that from time to time there will be a need for short term, intensive positive action programmes such as this. The campaign was never intended to last indefinitely but to help bring about a change in attitude among women towards business careers and to ensure that the various State enterprise development programmes were being targeted at women as well as men. The campaign has proved to be a success as evidenced by the fact that the take-up by women of grants available under the IDA's Small Industries Programme has increased from 3 per cent of the total in 1983 to 21 per cent in the first half of 1987. The Government are satisfied, therefore, that it has served its purpose and need not be continued as a separate programme for women.

In the Programme for National Recovery the Government have set out their overall strategy for regenerating the economy. In pursuit of that policy very difficult decisions have had to be taken on reduced funding for a range of policies and agencies but the Government have striven to carry out this necessary course of action with equity and fairness.

In tandem, however, with a strict fiscal approach the Government are set on improving social equity in our society so that we do move closer to achieving equality of opportunity. The Taoiseach has in fact assigned each Minister a special responsibility for women's affairs so that progress can be brought about on a broad policy front. When the budgetary situation improves it will be possible to consider how increased funding might best be committed towards the realisation of equal opportunities.

Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh.

I wish to make the point that the Minister of State — and she did explain that she was replying to the motion as it was — has missed the actual point I was making, that is, that the resources that were in the office that I occupied contributed to personnel, information and funds. Therefore, it was not necessary to fund the council as extensively as they need now. It is true to say that they have doubled their workload because there is not the assistance or the resources, the postage, or the organisation that was carried by the Office of Women's Affairs over the last four years. I think that is an important point for the Minister to keep in mind.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.45 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 11 November 1987.

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