This is a Seanad Bill which has been amended by the Dáil. In accordance with Standing Order 82, it is deemed to have passed its First, Second and Third Stages in the Seanad and it is placed on the Order Paper for Report Stage. On the Question that the Bill be received for final consideration, the Minister may explain the purpose of the amendments made by the Dáil and this is looked upon as the report of the Dáil amendments to the Seanad. The only matter therefore, that may be discussed is the amendments made by the Dáil. For the convenience of Senators I have arranged for the printing and circulation to them of those amendments.
Abattoirs Bill, 1987: [ Seanad Bill amended by Dáil ]: Report and Final Stages.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Question proposed: "That the Bill be received for Final Consideration."
An Leas-Chathaoirelach
May I remind Members that they may only speak once on that question?
The Abattoirs Bill, 1987, has been passed by Dáil Éireann, with amendments, and I would like to explain those amendments to this House.
Amendments Nos. 1 and 5 are cognate. Arising from concerns expressed to me that the period of two months licence continuance mentioned in subsection (2) of section 13 might prove to be an insufficient period in certain circumstances following the death of a licence holder, I agreed to extend the period to four months. Accordingly amendment No. 1 will do that in the case of abattoir licences while amendment No. 5 makes similar provision in relation to knackery licences. Senators will recall that, during the passage of this Bill through the Seanad some time ago, we introduced amendments to that section. I have further improved the situation following concerns expressed by Members of the Dáil and I have, therefore, agreed to extend the period to four months to make it more reasonable for everybody concerned.
Amendments Nos. 2 and 6 are related and refer to the refusal of abattoir licences and knackery licences, respectively. The purpose behind these amendments is to provide for an intermediate period, that is, 21 days notice of intention before the refusal of an abattoir or knackery licence takes place and, moreover, before formal recourse to the Circuit Court on appeal becomes necessary.
Senators will recall that during the passage of the Bill in this House last October, a number of speakers were concerned about the appeal provisions on refusal or revocation of licences. Various proposals were then made ranging from an intermediate appeal body to an intermediate period during which aggrieved proprietors would be afforded the opportunity to state their case without the involvement of the Circuit Court. The trade too had been concerned about the Bill's appeal provisions and were anxious to ensure that their members could have some informal procedure available to them before having to resort to the Circuit Court on formal appeal. Because of the widespread concerns expressed at the time, I decided, in consultation with Members of this House, of the Dáil and of the trade, to have another look at the Bill's appeal provisions.
The Bill already contained a provision in section 15 and 30 that, where an existing licence was being revoked, 21 days advance notice would be given to the licence holder. I decided, therefore, to include this provision of 21 days advance notice in the sections governing the refusal of licences and the necessary amendments were welcomed by the Dáil and by the trade.
They provide that, in the first instance, notice of intention to refuse a licence must issue at least 21 days before notice of actual refusal issues. That is, a person will get 21 days notice of intention before the actual notice of refusal will issue. This added safeguard of 21 days advance notice will allow an aggrieved proprietor, who feels his case may not have been adequately reported on at the time of inspection, to represent his case more fully to the Department. Furthermore, it will ensure that proprietors are not immediately catapulted into the formal appeal procedures involving the Circuit Court. That should allay the fears expressed by Members of this House who were concerned about that point. I did go to some trouble to allay those fears and ensure that we got this additional safeguard into that section of the Bill.
Amendments Nos. 3 and 7 are cognate and are purely drafting amendments in that they tidy up a certain vagueness in the subsections to which they relate.
In relation to amendment No. 3, the position is that subsection (2) (c) of section 14, as it stood, may have been somewhat ambiguous. It might have implied that a premises which heretofore was not being operated as an abattoir could be allowed operate as such while the applicant for a licence was appealing the Minister's decision not to grant him one. Accordingly, this amendment clarifies the situation in the case of abattoirs and amendment No. 7 does likewise in the case of knackeries.
Amendments No. 4 and 8 are cognate and are purely drafting amendments to clarify the procedures to be adopted by the Minister in revoking licences. In regard to amendment No. 4, subsection (2) of section 15 as it stood provided for the issue by the Minister of a notice of intention to revoke a licence, but did not make it clear that the actual decision to revoke was a separate matter and should be notified separately. The Minister could, for instance, in the 21-day period following issue of the notice of intention decide not to carry the intention into effect. This amendment clarifies the matter in the case of abattoirs and amendment No. 8 does likewise in the case of knackeries.
Amendment No. 9 reduces from two years to one year the period during which summary proceedings for offences under this Bill may be instituted. In the Dáil a number of Members expressed their concern about a two-year period, that things could drag on for two years and that there was no point in allowing that much time to elapse. A number of Deputies suggested that the sooner matters are brought before the courts, the better for all concerned. In this connection it was argued that the period of two years would only allow matters for an extension of time when the people concerned under this Bill would tend to forget matters and it would be preferable to have the matter decided as quickly as possible. Recognising these concerns, I introduced this amendment which will provide a more reasonable period for the institution of summary proceedings.
Lowering the period of time from two years to one will result in a better situation and will give a reasonable length of time. Lowering it to less than one year would maybe have some serious repercussions and perhaps cases where extensive investigations are required might become statute barred if it were less than one year, so I think one year there is an improvement on the two years. I commend these minor but important amendments to this Bill to the House.
I want to welcome the Minister back to the House with these amendments. On your ruling, I will deal with all the amendments but just speaking once to each of them. I think it is better to do it that way than to deal with the individual amendments and it will probably be easier to have a structured debate on them.
In relation to amendments No. 1 and 5 I appreciate what the Minister has done in this case following discussion of this Bill in the Dáil because we were concerned, particularly in the area of the death of a licence holder, and anything that can ease that situation is to be welcomed. Easing it from two months to four months is definitely a move in the right direction. The Minister has been quite generous in allowing that and I welcome it.
Amendments Nos. 2 and 6 meet the real worry I had about plunging ordinary genuine people in the meat trade, village and town butchers, into a Circuit Court situation immediately without a period of time in which they could discuss matters with the licensing authority or come to some arrangement to set their house in order without having to go to the Circuit Court which would literally ruin their business and make criminals of them in the eyes of the public. The Minister's move in this area removed that possibility and will allow time to the genuine people in the trade. We all agreed that nobody would justify anybody in this area being anything but proper and having the right standards but we also wanted to be reasonable. The amount of time the Minister will give butchers to achieve the proper status and standards is sufficient time to allow genuine people an opportunity to put their house in order. The other amendments are technical and I have no particular interest in them apart from their technicality. They are drafting and clarification amendments and I welcome them for that. I support all these amendments.
I do not wish to delay the House on this. I would just like to compliment the Minister on his reasonableness in dealing with the views expressed in this House and in the other House. Quite a number of Senators were very concerned about the Bill as it appeared in the first instance but many of the objections we had to the Bill are being met in the amendments. I would like to refer particularly to amendments Nos. 1 and 5 which deal with the death of a licence holder. While it extends the period to twice what it was in the original Bill I am not entirely happy with it. At the same time the Minister has gone a long way to meet the wishes of the Senators and Deputies.
At the time of the death of a licence holder a period passes when there are a lot of other matters to be dealt with. While four months is a great improvement on what we had in the original Bill, I would like to have seen it extended somewhat further to perhaps six months. However, I am reasonably happy with what the Minister has done and indeed with the other amendments dealing with appeals. I think he has come a long way in meeting the wishes of Senators and I would compliment the Minister on being so reasonable in dealing with this matter. I wish we got the same co-operation with many other pieces of legislation. I thank the Minister for a fine job in this regard.
I, too, would like to welcome the amendments. I believe that the changes now being proposed will strengthen the Bill and make for better legislation. Indeed, as has been pointed out by Senator McMahon and Senator Ferris, the Minister has been very helpful in his approach to this legislation and has tried as far as possible to meet the wishes of the trade while at the same time protecting the interests of the consumer and I want to thank him for that.
I would like to take the opportunity to thank the Senators for their co-operation in dealing with this Bill, not alone on this occasion, but also when it was first before this House. It is worth recalling that in the course of the passage of this Bill through both the Seanad and the Dáil we put down 15 amendments because of the concern and the homework which Senators and Deputies put into this legislation. The Bill reflects the consideration given to it by Members of the Dáil and Seanad. It reflects well on the democratic process. If there is a good intention expressed on the part of a Member of either House and if it improves legislation I would go a long way to incorporate that. In this case the Bill is the better for the amendments I have included in it.
I would also like to record my appreciation of the positive and constructive and non-contentious manner in which the debates on the various issues took place in both Houses because the basic purpose of this Bill, as agreed by everybody, is the raising of standards. That raising of standards even though it is going to mean some expense and a great deal of difficulty for the trade, is supported by all Members of both Houses and by the trade itself. I should not let the occasion pass without paying tribute to the role played by the trade, in particular, the Irish Domestic Meat Traders Association and the Irish Master Butchers Federation. Numerous meetings and consultations were held with interested bodies in the formulation of the legislation and they will be pleased with the Bill as it has now finally emerged. In the formulation of regulations under this Bill the same process of consultation will take place.
Finally, I wish to thank and pay tribute to the Senators for their speedy endorsement of the amendments to this Bill today.
Question put and agreed to.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."
On the Bill, as amended by the Dáil the Minister referred to the regulations he has promised arising from the legislation. At what stage are these regulations at present? A lot of consultation has taken place between the Minister and his advisers in the Department and the trade. A large area of agreement has been reached but when are we likely to see the regulations put into effect and laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas?
The position is that officials in the Department have already been working on the regulations in anticipation of the passage of this legislation and two sets of regulations have already been drafted. Three more are being prepared and it is anticipated that in the next month or, at the latest six weeks, we should have the regulations finalised.
Question put and agreed to.