We will take Item Nos. 1, 2 and 51. Item No. 51 is a Fine Gael motion. We have agreed to take that motion for not more than half an hour. It will be taken after Item No. 2 and then we will go on to Items Nos. 3 and 4. There may be a problem that Item No. 3 will run until 5.30 p.m. and if that happens we will not take Item No. 4 today. We will take Item No. 5 at 6.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
On the order of Business, may I first on behalf of my own party, and I am sure others, wish the Taoiseach a fast and speedy recovery to full health? I would like to thank the Acting Leader of the House for agreeing to take Item No. 51. I think it would be appropriate that this matter be discussed briefly today.
Unfortunately, I have to raise the question of what my party regard as the serious mismanagement of the public business of the House by the Leader of the House. Today's Order Paper might be acceptable at the end of a hard week's session on legislation. The motions are important, but not as a first offering after such a very lengthy period of absence of the Seanad. It is disgraceful that we have no legislation before us today. The fact that we have no legislation is directly and solely the fault of the Government, but it is also the fault of the Leader of the House. The Dáil Order Paper at present is weighed down with legislation from this House. The Companies Bill, the Insurance Bill——
Do you think you have made your point?
I have not because it is an important point. I will make it briefly and I will stick to the point. The Dáil Order Paper at the moment is weighed down with legislation from this House, yet in the past couple of weeks the four new Bills which have been published by the Government have all been introduced in the Dáil. Surely the Leader of the House and the Government Chief Whip must talk to each other. Surely they could arrange that some of these Bills could have been brought in in this House and we would have legislation before us today?
Secondly, we got a promise from the Leader of the House many weeks ago that we would have a full list of legislation which this House could expect to have before the autumn session. The Leader of the House said this not once but a number of occasions. It has not happened, either because there is no such list or because the Leader of the House has not bothered to get it for us. The Opposition are entitled to the basic courtesy of knowing what business has been planned and what business it can expect. In the absence of this basic courtesy we have no alternative but to register the strongest protest possible.
Finally, there is the question of Item No. 6 on today's Order Paper, the motion dealing with Anglo-Irish relations. At the present time the operations of the Anglo-Irish Agreement are being reviewed. Already the Northern Ireland Secretary has seen fit——
Senator Manning, you can raise the point but you cannot make a speech on it. No one knows better the rules of this House than you, Senator Manning.
The point at the moment — I will make it very briefly — is that widespread consultations are taking place with groups outside Parliament on the future operations of the Anglo-Irish Agreement. At the very least it is appropriate that this House be given the opportunity for its Members to voice their views on the working of the Anglo-Irish Agreement and I would earnestly urge the Acting Leader of the House to make it possible to have a debate on Item No. 6 at the earliest possible moment. I ask him to give a specific date if possible.
I would like to support what the Leader of the Opposition has said in relation to the deliberations with regard to the Anglo-Irish Agreement. It would be absolutely appalling if conclusions are reached before this House has had an opportunity to debate the issue. As I understand it, contributions are being collected at present in Northern Ireland and there will be some presentation made early in the New Year. In the meantime, I hope we are not going to procrastinate to the point where the Members of this House do not have the opportunity to contribute ideas to the debate so that out of it we will get something better than the present stalemate.
I would like to be associated with the good wishes to the Taoiseach for his speedy return. On Item No. 51 which is being taken today, it seems that this term is beginning like the last term end, while I certainly welcome the fact that this motion is being taken, it would have been nice to know beforehand so that speakers could have prepared themselves for it.
On the question of mismanagement or otherwise of the House raised by Senator Manning, certainly it is a cause of some concern at this stage that at a time when this House is open to criticism from outside we should be seen, as I see it, to almost abrogate our duty towards legislation. We have asked for and got from the Leader of the House absolute assurances that there would be a programme for legislation available to us which would take us from here until Christmas. We have now seen over the past number of weeks a number of Bills, five or six in all, between the Landlord and Tenant (Amendment) Bill, Jurisdiction of Courts (Maritime Conventions) Bill, the Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency Bill, the Turf Development Bill, the Local Government (Amendment) Bill and the Irish Sailors and Soldiers Land Trust Bill. All these have been published in the past number of weeks and all are on their way towards being dealt with in the Dáil, which is already trying to deal with massive volumes of legislation, some of which was initiated here. There are six more Bills being presented in the next month or so which, it is my understanding, will also be inititated in the Dáil.
We leave ourselves wide open to charges of abrogating our responsibility, to charges of being irrelevant in fact, and I put it very plainly at the door of the Government for not properly organising the legislative programme for this House. I could not put it more strongly and I think it is something that will be raised again and again. It is very regrettable.
Finally, I would like to place on the record of the House our congratulations to a Member of this House, Senator Norris, who has taken a case on behalf of minorities——
That has nothing to do with the Order of Business here today.
I would like to support the complaints made by my colleagues about the unprofessional way in which business is being ordered here. Why is it necessary, for example, that we should have to extract information from the Leader of the House as to whether we are sitting tomorrow? Inevitably, that question will be asked later on, but any competent presentation of the Order of Business should include that information.
On the Order of Business, I recognise Fianna Fáil's right to choose whatever motion they want for discussion. Indeed, the Irish charities motion is very worthwhile but I must add my voice to that of Senator Manning's in deploring the persistent refusal to discuss Item No. 6, which has slipped again badly in the charts — I recall it was Item No. 2 some time ago.
Months and months ago we were told that this item would be discussed shortly. There were always plausible excuses put forward as to why it would not be discussed. There was always some turn in Anglo-Irish relations that did not make it appropriate, we were told. I went along with some of those excuses. Now we are told that the review of the workings of the agreement is happening today and that that makes it inexpedient to discuss the proposal. All of this, I think, brings us to the irresistible conclusion that the reason the Government will not discuss this motion is that they do not want to be embarrassed by the ambivalent opinions, and some not so ambivalent opinions, of the Fianna Fáil Senators.
I do not agree with the criticism of the way the business of this House is being conducted. It is not justified. I have been a Member of previous Seanads and more legislation has been initiated in this Seanad than in previous Seanads. I am sure other Members of the House will agree with me. I think this is the most effective Seanad and instead of criticising him, Members should be congratulating the Leader of the Seanad for the manner in which he is conducting business.
I have to take issue with that. Anybody who wants to check the records of the two previous Seanads will find that they show the statement by the Senator is not correct.
For the interest of those Members who are not members of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, we had the same debate we are having today at last week's meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. Each one of us, including in fairness the Government Members, wanted to ensure that this House would deal with legislation. We are all of the unanimous opinion that the Leader of the House would request the Government that all Bills which were not money Bills would be initiated here simply because the House has the facility to deal with them and is not obsessed with the debate on Estimates and all sorts of other political motions that go on in another place. We are suggesting to Senator Ryan, acting as Leader of the House, that we would follow through on the case we made last week that all non-money Bills would be taken initially here so that they could be dealt with properly before Christmas. That will relieve some of the pressure on the other House.
I just want to make a small and, I hope, positive contribution. That is to welcome the fact that Item No. 4 on the Order Paper appears to be going to be taken today. I welcome particularly the positive and constructive approach of the Government in using some of their own time to take this very important motion. I would, however, like some clarification from the Acting Leader of the House because there appeared to be some doubt as to whether we would actually reach it today. I would like to know if it thought likely that it will be reached today and, if not, if I can have an assurance that it will be taken as soon as possible, that is, tomorrow.
I would like, first of all, to welcome wholeheartedly all those motions which are being taken today by the Government. I would like to congratulate them on having the initiative to actually find these motions to dicuss, having scrampled around all the way down the Order Paper. The reason we are discussing them is because there is nothing else to discuss. Let us be honest.
We could do without repetition.
It is not repetition. I will make a new point. I am very thankful to the Seanad electoral system, to God, and to anybody else I need to be thankful to, that there is no member of the progressive Democrats in this House at the moment because the Progressive Democrats would be having a field day here today because this House is impotent——
The Progressive Democrats have nothing to do with today's Order of Business. Get back to the business.
They have got something to do with the Order of Business in this House today because there is no legislation in this House today.
You have made your point, Senator Rosss. Will you sit down?
That is only the first point. I am coming to the Order of Business. It is a very important point.
Senator Ross, that is what you got up to speak about.
I have three more points to make. There is no legislation on the Order of Business today because of the Government's attitude to this House. The Government are treating this House with contempt because there is no legislation. Secondly, the Government passed in record time at the last meeting, when some of us were absent — but it reads very badly in the record — the Report Stage of the Companies Bill in one day. Senator Kiely quite rightly said——
That last remark is unfair; withdraw it. If you were not here to participate in the debate on the Companies Bill you are not in a position to judge what the Government did.
I have read the report.
Withdraw that last remark, out of respect to the whole Seanad.
I cannot withdraw a remark which states that the Government passed it in one day. It passed it in one day. That is a fact. I cannot withdraw that. The point I want to make is this: that was passed in one day because there were so few Government speakers. The Government should not come here and say it has been great legislation when they are making no contribution to it when it comes to this House.
The last point I would like to make is with regard to Northern Ireland. I am tired of making points about a debate on Northern Ireland but this is an ideal opportunity today, when we have got four or five items on the Order Paper, to take a whole day on Northern Ireland. The fact is we are being backed away from Northern Ireland for some reason and we are not being allowed to discuss it. That needs to be put on the record. Finally — I am sure you are going to correct me on this — I would like to place on the record my congratulations to Senator Norris for his great success in Europe last week.
On a point of clarification, it was not the Government who put through the Companies Bill in one day; it was the Seanad. If Senator Ross was concerned about it he should have been here to ensure it would go right.
Is it in order for a Senator to refer to the absence of another Senator?
It is not.
The Companies Bill was in the House for over four months. Over 30 amendments were put in by the main Opposition in this House and Senator Ross was not to be seen.
The Acting Leader of the House, Senator Willie Ryan, to reply and conclude.
In connection with Item No. 4, the usual procedure would be that each speaker would have only 15 minutes but I am proposing that, notwithstanding Standing Order 41, Item No. 4 will not be subject to a time limit. Senator Norris asked if I could see it coming up today. I cannot because the items ahead of it might continue on until 5.30 p.m. If that happens, we will not take it today and we are not sitting tomorrow.
With regard to the reference to the Anglo-Irish Agreement by Senator Manning and others, it was my intention to speak to the Tánaiste this morning about it, but he had gone to Belfast in connection with the Anglo-Irish Agreement. I am not saying it would be taken today anyway because I do not think today would be the appropriate day to take it when they are already having talks in other higher places. The only guarantee I can give is that I will speak to the Tánaiste this evening or tomorrow to see when we will take this debate on the Anglo-Irish Agreement because I am sure we will take it in due course.
With regard to legislation and promises made here some time ago, we thought we would have legislation for today's sitting. We have not got it, but we will have it for the future. Next week we will have the Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency Bill because I understand it will be passed in the Dáil today or tomorrow. I have been told we will get Bills from the Government in the very near future. The first one will be the Local Government (Water Pollution) (Amendment) Bill, 1988. We may have that next week. Today is the only day we do not have Government business.
Will the Constituency Bill come here first?
That may happen, too. It would not be of interest to this House; it would be of more interest to the other House. There may be a few Senators who have ambitions to go the other House. I am sure we will get that in due course.
Senator Murphy asked why he had to extract information about business by asking questions in this House. As far as I am concerned the business we have every week is forwarded to the Whip of the Independents Group and it is up to the Independents secretary to tell his members, or should I ask my secretary to give six letters of the Order of Business every week to the Independent Senators? If they want it that way we will try to accommodate them. I do not think we are expected to give the Order of Business for next week or the week after. It is only today's business we are discussing.
Order of Business agreed to.