I would like to thank you, a Cathaoirligh, for the progress report on the reconstruction work. I am glad that the work is proceeding, as we expected it would, and that we will be back in the Chamber after the Easter recess. It is proposed to take Items Nos. 1 and 2 today and that we take Item No. 2 from 6.30 to 8 p.m.
Order of Business.
Let me say how pleased I am at the progress that has been made on the restoration of the Chamber. I welcome the undertaking given by the Office of Public Works to have us back in the Chamber as soon as possible after Easter. Secondly, may I ask the Leader of the House, in view of the very unsatisfactory situation which arose in the early and middle part of the last session in regard to the ordering of business, to convene a meeting of the Whips either today or tomorrow to ensure that full information is made available about what business is being ordered and that it can be done in a structured way. Can the Leader of the House give us some indication as to when there might be a debate on Item No. 42, a motion on press freedom and libel, which was discussed at the end of the last session when he indicated his willingness to have it put on the Order Paper at an early stage?
I, too, would like to welcome the report on the progress which has been made in relation to the reconstruction work in the Seanad Chamber and I would like to ask the Leader of the House if he could give me an assurance that we will be back in time for me to sit in it? I never hoped to sit in that Chamber, so I look forward to an assurance that he is not going to do anything rash in the meantime.
Secondly, I would like to extend a welcome and my congratulations to the new Senator Tony Bromell and to say that I welcome the fact that there is now another representative of the education sector and an educationist in this House. I should warn him, however, that his colleagues are deeply suspicious of people who seek to represent third level interests in education here. I have no doubt——
Senator, you are totally——
I want to extend a warm welcome to Senator Bromell and to bring to the attention of his colleagues from Kerry in particular that during his very illustrious term as Mayor of Limerick he had, as it were the audacity to take a boat down from Limerick, cast a dart in the direction of Kerry and claim control of that county, an act for which he has never been forgiven but we will tolerate him nevertheless. Welcome, Senator.
I want to reiterate what Senator Manning said in relation to the programme of legislation. During the early part of the last term there were long and bitter arguments on the Order of Business day after day on the question of ordering properly the business of the House. I would also put the case for having an ordered and structured legislative programme for the next number of months. I should like an assurance from the Leader of the House that he will meet us on that issue, I should also like to get an indication as to the number of days per week the leader would envisage the House sitting during this term.
First, I should like to welcome the news with regard to the Seanad Chamber. I should like to point out that my name should be associated with Item No. 2 on the agenda because I did sign it. I would like to formally place that on the record of the House because it is the only method I have now of making sure that my name is associated with that item. I would like to ask the Leader of the House if he is in a position yet to give us information with regard to Item No. 43, that is, the European Patent Convention, because he did say at the end of the last session that he would bring this matter to Government because, I understand, there was some kind of constitutional difficulty involved. Perhaps at some stage in the near future we could have some information from the Leader of the House on this. I would like to have an indication, if this is possible, of when it will be possible to take Item No. 44 with regard to the critical situation arising in the Women's Aid refuge. I will not press this further because it would be inappropriate and I have no doubt I will be brought to heel but I will be bringing it up this afternoon at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Women's Rights.
Finally, I would like in a very special way — and I do not intend or wish to abuse the proceedings of the House — to put down an amendment to the Order of Business and see if the Leader of the House will find that there is some scope for manoeuvre here. I would like Item No. 30, if at all possible, to be taken today. There is a very particular reason for this and I do not believe I will be abusing the procedure of this House if I mention it. Yesterday or today — there is some dispute about the date — is actually the 44th anniversary of the disappearance of Raoul Wallenberg. I am in possession of information which suggests that the Soviet Union is currently preparing a report on this matter——
Senator Norris, you are asking for Item No. 30 to be taken today but you cannot make a speech on it.
I was simply indicating why this is a very special day. Forty-four years ago a man who was a shining example to the whole of Europe, and particularly Christian Europe, disappeared without a trace. There seems to be a possibility of exerting some pressure on the Soviet Union with the advent of perestroika and glasnost and I would like to put an amendment that this item be taken today for the very special reason that it is such a significant day.
I want, first of all, to associate myself with the remarks of Senator O'Toole in welcoming Senator Bromell. I think we have got to the position now where, notwithstanding some of the criticism, there are more academics on that side of the House than there are on this side so perhaps some of the criticism about us academics will be directed towards the Fianna Fáil back-benchers——
I hope they are not as noisy.
——rather than to those on this side who are accused of that apparently awful sin.
May I also, with your indulgence, a Chathaoirligh, compliment Senator Hanafin on the award he received during the period of the recess and ask through you if he got the permission of the Government to accept what is effectively an award from a foreign government?
I am trying to clear the Order of Business today. Will the Senator stop that.
Nevertheless I think it is an interesting question.
This is not the place for it; ask it somewhere else.
I think it is a constitutional question——
I want to clear today's business in the Seanad.
May I also ask the Leader of the House if the Government have any proposals to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the first Dáil. I have the distinct impression that because of the radical nature of the declaration of that body most of us in Irish politics today would prefer to forget it. I think it is an important epoch in our history. Seventy years ago on 21 January the first Dáil met and issued a ringing and radical declaration about what this country should be about. It is a pity we are not going to commemorate it and if the other House is afraid to commemorate it I would ask the Leader of the House if it would be possible for us to commemorate the event for them.
I want——
Senator John Robb, then I will call Senator Ferris.
I wanted to refer to the topic which has been raised by Senator Brendan Ryan because I think it would be a great tragedy if it passed unnoticed that we are approaching the 70th anniversary of the meeting of the first Dáil. My grandfather, who was a Unionist, was invited to the first Dáil. Needless to say, like many Unionists of his time he did not accept the invitation but I am certain that as an Irishman many of them would have wished to work for a resolution of the problem we have had on this island, which continues to exist on this island and to which, hopefully, we will all address ourselves most earnestly in the forthcoming session.
So that I can clear today's business I want to request the rest of my colleagues to stop making speeches. We are getting back to the old position where what is being talked about now should have been discussed by Senators and the Whips before they came into the House.
Having accompanied the Cathaoirleach to see the renovations in the old Chamber I want to endorse the statements that have been made about the work which is being carried out and to pay tribute to the Office of Public Works for the obvious effort, enterprise, ingenuity, craftmanship and dedication in so ensuring that the Chamber will be in the sort of condition all of us would wish. We should pay tribute to them today. They are on target with their work and, hopefully, all the new Members who have never sat in that Chamber will have the opportunity to do so.
Even for a short time.
No matter how short it is, and only you, a Chathaoirligh, will be privy to that kind of information. I also want to say that the Labour Party are willing to enter into any negotiations with the Leader of the House in coming to agreement about the Order of Business, procedures and our legislative programme. In a spirit of goodwill for the New Year I think it would be appropriate for all of us to co-operate with one another in trying to make this House as effective and efficient as possible. As a Tipperary man and Munster man, I want to welcome the new Senator, Senator Bromell, from Limerick. I was also elected in a by-election and I am still here in spite of some efforts to the contrary. The Senator is as well elected as anybody else and long may he be here.
I think it is appropriate also that I be associated with the congratulations to Senator Hanafin, who is a Tipperary man also. A very high and distinctive honour has been bestowed on him and as a sitting colleague of ours we should be associated with the congratulations to him. He is not the first Irishman to be honoured nationally or internationally by other Governments. People like Seán Mac-Bride have been so honoured by other governments and it is appropriate that we should pay a tribute to him and convey our best wishes to him. It is a very high honour for anybody in this country and we should be proud of it.
I am also glad to hear about the good news about the Chamber and I looked forward to resuming my own seat, even if only for a brief period. With reference to Senator Ryan's wish to point out to the Government that 21 January 1919 is an important date, I would agree, of course. I would also have to point out to the Senator, however, that the democratic programme of the first Dáil was a piece of eyewash. It was mere window-dressing and it had nothing to do with the Sinn Féin movement. It was put in there against the wishes of the IRB——
In fairness, I think the whole lot of you should put down a motion and have a discussion on this.
I am simply trying to dispel a myth, and the more myths we can dispel the better. With regard to Senator Ryan's and Senator Ferris's references to the honour conferred on Senator Hanafin, I must say I had not suspected Senator Ryan of having a sardonic sense of humour. I cannot take seriously a motion which would express the elation of this House at the participation of one of our colleagues in a referendum campaign the outcome of which was disastrous and not in the best interests of the Irish people.
The rest all of you have had has had an effect on your brains. Let us get the Order of Business out of the way. Senator resume your seat.
It is a pity you did not adopt the same firm approach to my colleagues who spoke before me. Undeterred, I am glad to——
Senator Murphy, you spend your time correcting me.
And will continue to do so.
And I will continue to deal with you.
With the greatest respect, you remind me of an over-officious referee who keeps blowing the whistle instead of letting the game proceed at a decent pace.
The unfortunate thing about me is that I am not even a fair referee to myself, because I give you too much ground. Will you conclude and sit down?
"Sit down" is an unparliamentary expression.
Resume your seat then.
As soon as I finish speaking relevantly. May I say how pleased I am that the intellectual and academic wing of Fianna Fáil has been so enormously strengthened by the addition of Senator Tony Bromell. Tá áthas orm é a fheiscint anseo. Tá súil agam go bhfanfaidh sé tamaillín linn agus nach n-imeoidh sé ró luath to dtí áit eile.
It is very difficult to keep up with the positions which people aspire to and hold in this land, and I apologise. I should like first to congratulate you on the report about the Chamber next door and how the work is progressing. I was not able to be escorted around the Chamber by you because I was not there; I missed that privilege. Secondly, I would like to endorse what my colleagues have said about Senator Hanafin's appointment. I think it was an appropriate appointment for Senator Hanafin and we should all recognise it as such. But we should also recognise the divisive nature of the reasons for that appointment.
Senator Ross, let me clear the Order of Business, and you can leave the Chamber and put down whatever motions you wish and we will deal with them properly.
I am commenting on what my colleagues said. I should also like to endorse what everybody has said in this Chamber, which is to congratulate — and I hope this is non-contentious — the new Senator for Fianna Fáil. I am delighted. Everybody in this House says he will be a very worthy Member and he does add to the calibre on the benches over there. Having said that, I would like to ask your guidance, a Chathaoirligh, because this is a matter which I think is relevant to the Order of Business. I regret enormously that it is well known that the new Senator was elected in a most unusual way. I regret that members of the governing party——
Senator Ross, you cannot raise that——
It is a constitutional point and I want your guidance on this.
This is not the place to do so, as you know well. I love the way you put in "for your guidance".
I was asking for your guidance on this, if you would let me speak. Members of the governing party had to vote in front of their Chief Whip, this is something which is of relevance to this Chamber.
This does not arise. This is not a court of law.
I am worried about the secrecy of the ballot which is enshrined in the Constitution and I am worried that this was infringed.
Senator Ross put down a motion if you want this discussed. It has nothing to do with the Order of Business.
Can you guide me on whether the secrecy of the ballot was infringed, and whether people had undue pressure put on them in this election?
You know well it is not my function to guide you, or to answer that.
You are interpreting the rules of this House and I should not have said it. I apologise.
To say the secrecy of the ballot was infringed is a very serious statement.
I am looking for guidance as to whether it was.
Senator Ross should not be allowed get away with that. He should be asked to withdraw it.
I asked whether it happened. I did not state that it happened. That was the whole point of bringing it up, and I was looking for the guidance of the Cathaoirleach on it.
It is not my function. It would be much better if this discussion did not continue. This is not the place for it.
It is a serious point and I do not want to treat it in any way frivolously. Election to be a Member of this House should not be——
I would ask the Senator to finish the discussion on this subject or else leave the House.
I have finished the discussion on it. Having said that, I would also like to second the amendment to the Order of Business put down by Senator Norris.
The Leader of the House to reply and conclude.
On the Order of Business, getting away from the irrelevancies that were brought into the debate, some questions were asked in connection with the ordering of Business for the future. I would suggest that the Whips meet tomorrow morning immediately after the Order of Business when we will have a programme on which agreement can be reached to a certain degree as to what will come before the Seanad over the next few weeks.
The matter of press freedom and libel can be discussed again tomorrow morning.
A question was asked in connection with Item No. 43. If Senator Norris refers to a speech made by Minister Calleary just before Christmas, he will have the answer. There is a problem with Item No. 43 which relates to the European Patent Convention. A comprehensive reply was given that regard stating the position the Government are in. As far as I am aware the European Patent Convention has not been ratified by any State. If Senator Norris and the other Senators who are interested in this matter would refer to a speech made just before the Christmas break by Minister Calleary, I think their query will be answered.
Again, on the matter of the importance of the first Dáil, I recognise that all Senators would wish to have the anniversary of the first Dáil commemorated in some way. The Fiftieth Anniversary was commemorated. The Dáil sat in the Mansion House on the fiftieth anniversary. I can discuss the matter with the Government and with the Whips tomorrow morning to see whether we can have a debate to commemorate in an appropriate manner the 70th anniversary of the first Dáil. On Item No. 30 relating to Raoul Wallenberg, I suggest that a Standing Order 29 motion might be the appropriate way to have that brought before the House. There is no other way we can bring it before the House today.
The Order of Business stands. As I have said we will take Items Nos. 1 and 2 today; Item No. 2 between 6.30 p.m. and 8 p.m. I do not think there are any other questions on the Order of Business.
Is the amendment being pressed, Senator Norris?
No, I withdrew it. I would like to thank the Leader to the House for his very constructive approach to the various questions I raised. I hope to have a Standing Order 29 motion on this issue.
Order of Business agreed to.