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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 19 Dec 1989

Vol. 123 No. 14

Business of Seanad.

Before I deal with the question of the Adjournment of the Seanad I should like, on my own behalf and on behalf of the Members, to extend thanks to the staff of the House for the excellent work they have done in the last session. I should like to thank the Official Reporting staff, the Editor of Debates and the Assistant Editors, the ushers, the staff of the Seanad office under the able leadership of the Clerk, Mr. Coughlan, and the press who have come in for some criticism in the last session. In this the first session of the new Seanad many Members who are also members of county councils or were Members of the Dáil, found that strange things can happen in Seanad Éireann.

I did not realise until I was questioned by a 12 year old, who was seeking information of what Lady Desart from Kilkenny had said in the first Seanad, how far the House has progressed from the pedestrian nature of that first House. In the last session we addressed ourselves to the need for reforming the Seanad, to update and upgrade the House. We need to be able to address matters of immediate importance and we must address the House in terms of making it a more adequate House of the Oireachtas.

Members have an open mind on how we should run the business of the House and it is my hope that in the next session the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, and their sub-committee, will meet to consider the various reforms suggested by Members. I am not saying that all the suggestions being put forward will be implemented. Any Opposition will feel frustrated about the need for reforms because it will appear to them that the Government hold the whip hand. The Government will always hold the whip hand and I do not think any Member could contemplate a Seanad in which the Government did not have that authority. Members seeking reform along those lines will not see their suggestions implemented. I do not think this House should be able to overturn any Government proposals.

Ba mhaith liom a rá san chéad teanga go raibh níos mó díospóireachtaí san Teach seo san chéad teanga ná mar a chuala mé ó 1977 go dtí an Seanad seo. Tá a lán Gaeilge ag cuid de na Seanadóirí agus tá beagán Gaeilge ag cuid eile. Is é an pointe is tábhachtaí ná go bhfuil Seanadóirí ag caint anseo trí Ghaeilge. Ba mhaith liom go leanfaí leis sin. Bhí caint mhór againn i dtaobh an gléas aistriúcháin a chur isteach san Teach seo. Táimid ag obair go dian chun go gcuirfí é sin i gcrích. B'fhéidir go mbeidh sé anseo i gceann cúpla mí. Táimid ag súil go dtógfaidh an obair seo cúpla mí. Ba mhaith liom fíor-bhuíochas a ghabháil le gach éinne a bhí ag obair sa Seanad san seisiún atá caite. Guím rath Dé ar gach duine a bheidh páirteach san obair anseo sna seachtainí atá romhainn.

I wish Members a happy Christmas and I look forward to the House returning early in January. We will be adjourning sine die.

I should like, on behalf of my colleagues and myself, to extend my thanks and best wishes for Christmas and a prosperous 1990 to the Cathaoirleach, the Leas-Chathaoirligh, to the Clerk of the Seanad and his staff, the Official Reporters, the Editor of Debates and the Assistant Editors, the ushers and the Leader of the House and his colleagues. I do not think any of us should accept the Seanad being used as a rubber stamp for legislation that has passed through the Dáil. We do not, but we should not begin to go down that road. We have had some interesting debates in this session which has not been a long one but I look forward to returning to the House shortly after New Year's Day. I will never accept the cloaking of inefficiency, by strange things happening, be it in this House or elsewhere. Given the spirit of the season and the time of the year, I will not develop that any further, but I have a feeling that the Leader of the House knows exactly what I am referring to.

I have thoroughly enjoyed my first session in Seanad Éireann and I know I speak, too, for other Senators who have just completed their first session. There are many old hands here who would join with me in wishing one and all a very peaceful and happy Christmas and a prosperous 1990.

Let me add to the cúpla focal atá ráite go dtí seo. In my short experience, although I am almost a senior Member of the House at this stage, this session has been in many ways the best in terms of the material we have dealt with. I congratulate the Leader of the House for the efficient way in which the House has been run, but having said that there are many things which need to be cleared up. There were quite a number of unnecessary procedural rows. From my own point of view, the term has been marred by the fact that I was grossly misrepresented in the House in my absence one day in terms of what was purported to have been decided at a Whips' meeting. I want to put the House on notice that I will not be attending any further Whips' meeting until that matter has been clarified. I have already made that clear to the leader of the House.

Acting Chairman

I do not think that arises now.

In keeping with the spirit of the season, let us say it nicely now rather than nastily in the new year.

Acting Chairman

Stick to the spirit of the season.

Mr. Byrne

It is Christmas on this side of the House.

I would like to say to the Leader of the House——

I will accept the Senator's 90 second statement on that.

I thank the Leader of the House for his commitment to a wide variety of topics. In particular it should not go without mention that there was a number of wide-ranging debates on foreign policy and international matters. This is quite significant. Developments in that area, looking at internal structures and so on in the countries concerned, might be useful. It was also useful to discuss the issues that were dealt with, in terms of the reformation of the Oireachtas, a good a phrase as any. I look forward in the next session to the report of the committee that has been set up by the Committee on Procedures and Privileges.

On behalf of those of us on the Independent benches, I wish you, acting Chairman, the Cathaoirleach, the Leas-Chathaoirleach, the acting chairmen, the Leader of the House, the Clerk, the Government Chief Whip and the Government Assistant Whip and all those who make the House work, including Members on both sides a happy Christmas.

I also wish to be associated with the good wishes being expressed by various members of the House particularly to yourself, Acting Chairman, to the staff and the media, and to the Leader of the House for the continuing courtesy he has shown me in this my first period as a Senator. I must say that I found the activities of the House very interesting and stimulating. The debates which have taken place were of a high standard particularly those on the Middle East, Ethiopia and on the developments in Eastern Europe.

I should also say that we in the Labour Party are concerned at the statement of the Leader of the House that Private Members' legislation is really going nowhere. I would like to see this aspect of the activities of the House developed a lot more. There is room for substantial development in that area. I would also like to see an extension of the committee system. During the last few months I have referred to a number of possible committees. In conclusion, on behalf of the Labour Party, I wish everybody a very happy Christmas and all the blessings of the season.

I join in the expressions of seasonal good wishes. I also wish to say that I, too, look forward to a positive term after the Christmas break, particularly as the Leader of the House appeared to give some indication in the final weeks of this session that there would be room for Private Members' legislation in the coming session. I very much hope that this will be the case because it is necessary. So much of the Government's programme of legislation in recent weeks has been window dressing, particularly in regard to the Derelict Sites Bill. The intention of that Bill is absolutely laudable and worthy but, unamended, it is contrary to the alleged intention of the Bill. It is very important that we do not lose sight of the important element of partnership, in democracy. That should mean that the Government are adult enough not to feel threatened by amendments which come from this revising Chamber and are adult and mature enough to allow Bills to be initiated in this chamber, and not just by the Government. I hope the Leader of the House will look to a situation where legislation——

This Bill was initiated here.

This one started here.

I know — and look at it. You have made my point, thank you.

Mr. Byrne

It is just as well someone did.

I do not know where this tradition of getting up on the last day of the first term to congratulate ourselves for what we have done during the previous three or four months came from——

We like listening to the Senator.

The Senator should not anticipate what I am going to say. For the past three or four years the Leader of the House has risen to his feet when the business was over to wish everybody a happy Christmas. This then developed into a debate about the session and led to a great deal of criticism of the Leader of the House himself. I do not want to indulge in any such criticism for at least the next two minutes——

Is the Senator going to sing "Jingle Bells"?

——but after that perhaps I will. Let me say this; if we are going to wish each other a happy Christmas and be self-indulgent about how well we have done during the past three or four months, I do not wish to share in the latter part of those congratulations. I would certainly wish everybody on all sides of the House a happy Christmas, especially the Coalition Chief Whip, Seantor McGowan, and others who have been provocative during the past three or four months to those of us on the Independent benches who have tried to be constructive during this session.

I knew the Senator would not disappoint us.

If this House is to be taken seriously, it is not good enough for us to simply repeat the mistakes of former years and to make promises about improvements we might make. I ask the Leader of the House to come back after Christmas, which should be a time of great inspiration for him, with proposals on how he, as Leader of the House and the Government could improve the workings of this House so that, for instance, there is not point blank refusal to pass Private Members' Legislation or to accept amendments from the Opposition side, as occurred last week. We should be allowed to initiate Bills.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Farrell)

We cannot keep making speeches all night. I would hate to think what it would be like if the Senator was wishing us an unhappy Christmas.

I was about to sum up but I am revising my opinion about that. We should be allowed to do two things. The first is that the Leader of the House should come back after Christmas and say he would welcome legislation from the Opposition and from the Independents and that more Bills, not fewer, will be initiated in the Seanad where they would be done justice and where amendments would be easier to accept. Having said that and having been critical, this has been a better session in some ways than other sessions in the past three or four years. There has been a definite will on the part of the Government to improve the workings of the Seanad. It has not in any way been translated into action. While I do not and never will expect too much of the Government, at least this is a start.

Acting Chairman

I am aware that this is the festive season and a time when tongues are often loose, but the Senator might put a wee cog to his tongue.

I did not expect the Acting Chairman to interrupt me when I was actually saying nice things about his Leader. I am absolutely dumbfounded. Having said that, let me wish those on all sides a very happy Christmas.

Acting Chairman

On behalf of the Cathaoirleach I would like to be associated with the kind words of the Leader of the House in thanking the staff of the House for their hard work and dedication throughout the year and I too join in wishing all a very happy Christmas.

When are we coming back?

We will adjourn sine die.

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