Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 Jul 1990

Vol. 125 No. 15

Adjournment Matter. - Foyle Fisheries Commission Structures.

Mr. McGowan

I will do my best to make my case within the time allocated.

I would like to record my gratitude to the Cathaoirleach and the Minister for the opportunity of raising this matter. To me and to the people in the part of the country I come from it is of importance equal to any major concern that might be expressed in the city of Dublin.

I will briefly outline the size of the problem and the publicity it has got already. I have copies of a number of papers which are circulated in the north west. One is the Donegal Democrat. In the issue I have here, there is the heading “Pollution Problem Disturbing”. The Minister's response to the problem is outlined also in this paper. I have here also an issue of the Irish News, dated 30 June, which is published in Belfast and which contains an article on the pollution of the Foyle. This refers to “Foyle deadly poison puzzle” and goes on to give account of traces of DDT chemicals and pesticides, banned for over 30 years, but which have been found in the Foyle. That is according to the environmental group, Greenpeace. Members of Greenpeace were in Derry to investigate recent reports of pollution in the River Foyle. This is the problem I am forced to take up. I have a lot of information to support my case. We are talking of a very dangerous development that cannot be allowed continue.

I have another paper here —The Derry Journal printed on 1 June which contains the following “Something malicious going on in the Foyle.” In the Donegal Democrat of 1 June we read that a meeting of fishermen was held prior to 1 June. It reads:

There was a sinister undertone to last night's meeting when Foyle salmon dealers met fishermen in St. Johnston to discuss a pollution problem of a different kind on the River Foyle. A spokesman for the Foyle Salmon Dealers' Association, Mr. Frank Casey of Strabane, County Tyrone told the meeting that "their association was set up last winter because of the serious pollution problem they had experienced in the River Foyle last year.

With less than five weeks to go to the start of the fishing season, we thought it our duty to come here tonight and to explain to you clearly why this association and its members will not be buying salmon this year off the River Foyle."

This refers to fish buyers. Mr. Casey of Strabane was a spokesperson for the fish buyers.

Mr. Casey did not stop there. He invited RTE to do a programme and they were quick to oblige. I have here a copy of that "Today Tonight" programme and I will be presenting it to the Minister. Mr. Casey invited RTE to the area. The programme began in Strabane with salmon that was caught in the Foyle, or was supposed to have been caught in the Foyle being eaten. Mr. Casey went to a lot of pains on the film to indicate that there was a taint or a taste off the fish. I believe the end of the story has not yet been reached. There is serious damage to the fishing industry on the Foyle. Those whose livelihoods have been affected are entitled to look to RTE and to claim compensation. I believe they will be doing that.

The people who invited RTE to make a video film of the salmon fishing industry in the Foyle refused to pay for fish caught last year. They put forward a reason for that, that they had 500 boxes of fish in cold storage in the North of Ireland, and that those fish were unsaleable. The licensed fishermen made it their business to locate the cold store and check out the story. It transpired that 23 boxes of salmon in that store were caught last year in the Foyle, but 400 boxes were also in the store marked to the same Mr. Casey. I have the addresses and the labels that came off the boxes — from Perth in Scotland. I am using this opportunity of saying this in order to bring it home to the Minister and his Department that this is not a political topic, it is not a political bandwagon, it is not a matter for discussion but it is a serious matter and one that has to be examined very quickly.

We are very fortunate in Donegal in that we have a quality control laboratory at Killybegs. It is recognised, supported and financed to some extent by the Department of the Marine and used by the Department. It tests the quality of all the fish that leaves Donegal by the lorry load daily. The are doing satisfactory work. We have had the Foyle fish tested in that laboratory. I have certificates of a clean bill of health for the Foyle fish. I am passing some of this information to the Minister today. After Mr. Casey and Mr. Frank Foley who represent Atlantic Harvest——

Acting Chairman (Professor Conroy)

I want to remind the Senator that it is not the custom to name individuals.

Mr. McGowan

It may not be the custom but I intend to do that unless I am told it is contrary to the law. If I am not breaking any law, I have thought out my approach to this.

Acting Chairman

It is not a question of law, Senator, but it is the practice of this House not to name individuals.

Mr. McGowan

I want to say, if I can amend my statement, that a representative of Atlantic Harvest, a fish buying company in Derry who were part of the meeting that was held in St. Johnston and publicly stated that they would not be buying fish, started to buy fish yesterday.

The cynical part of this is that all during the time when the fish buyers in Strabane and Derry said they would not buy fish caught in the Foyle, they have continued to buy poached fish. The whole intention is to close down the Foyle to legally licensed fishermen and continue poaching, which would be at a rate of four to one. It would be such a business that cheaper fish could be bought from the poacher than the licensed fishermen. The intention is to put out a scare about pollution, to close it to the legally licensed fishermen, and then buy the poached fish. It has been clearly established that the fish buyer in Strabane, while refusing to buy from the licensed fishermen, bought poached fish and sold them in Belfast. I will take the Leas-Chathaoirleach's advice. I will not name the person in Belfast but I have the name of the company, the date and the number of fish that were sold. They were poached on the Foyle and handled by the man in Strabane who refused to buy fish from licensed fishermen. That is the magnitude of the situation.

I have taken this matter up continually. I took it up with the Minister for the Environment and the Minister for Fisheries. This issue will be pursued. It is unjust, unfair and criminal if one of the best rivers in Ireland is put at risk. The River Foyle is less than 20 miles long from the catchment below Derry and Moville to Strabane. It is a fairly wide river and a very clean river. It is tidal. It is a much cleaner river than the Liffey, Thames, Rhine, the Seine in France or any river in Europe.

I claim here — and I am subject to test, correction and examination from laboratory or any scientific report, Greenpeace included — that the River Foyle is a clean river and never was anything else. There has never been polluted fish coming out of the River Foyle. There has never been the faintest evidence to support those fish buyers who are acting criminally. They must be brought to heel. I ask the Minister to take a positive approach to this matter and to clean up the situation once and for all.

The sad part about this is that the Government are involved with the British Government in the Foyle Fishery Commission. I tried to get an up-to-date report from the Foyle Fishery Commission but on 29 June I got a report from them dated 1987. That is the latest report available. If that is the efficiency we are getting from the Foyle Fishery Commission it is time the commission were examined. I call on the Minister to examine the structures, operation and management and every involvement of the Foyle Fishery Commission. If the Foyle Fishery Commission were doing their work properly I would not have any problem. I would not be standing here today making the claims and complaints that I have been making. It is terrible. I have to mention names in this case. I hope I am wrong but according to my best advice a Miss Tuohy, now retired, was our representative on the Foyle Fishery Commission. Her secretary has now been appointed. This is rather strange and rather unacceptable to Foyle fishery members who are in difficulty.

Acting Chairman

I have to remind you, Senator, that you cannot cast aspersions or I will be forced to adjourn the House.

Mr. McGowan

I respect the Chair's guidance. I will try to keep to the procedure of the House. I ask the Minister to examine the structures, the personnel and the people who are appointed by the Government to participate in the Foyle Fisheries Commission and, if necessary, to reappoint representatives who will take an active interest in them and who will be prepared to give a report not more than one year old. That Foyle Fisheries Commission report for 1987 is not worth the paper it is written on. It is outdated. If that 1987 appeared on the desk of any Member of this House or of the other House, or of any businessman when it is now 1990, it would be thrown into the waste basket fairly quickly. I cannot see it registering much interest or of being of any importance.

This outdated approach to the Foyle Fisheries Commission is part of the problem. A more active Foyle Fisheries Commission would do their duty and would cover some of the areas I have to complain about. This is important enough a matter for me to raise here. I feel strongly about it, but I do not feel any stronger than those who are involved and whose livelihoods are at stake. There are a number of people involved, some with families of five, in an area along the Foyle, between Derry and Lifford. A large number will be forced to go on the dole if the Foyle is closed to them. There are 100 people with licences and 100 families with livelihoods at stake. There has to be a positive response. I ask the Minister to take this issue seriously. Those people are not going to lie down and accept the racketeering that has been going on and which has threatened to put them out of business. That is the current situation. There has to be an immediate response from the Department of the Marine and from the Government to allay any fears that exist.

It was extraordinary that RTE should send down a film crew and start with a fish buyer in Strabane and then continued to interview a large number of people, all on the negative side. They interviewed the chairman of the licensed fishermen from Maymor, St. Johnston, County Donegal but he was excluded. That was cut out of the film. His presentation and his contribution did not appear. The whole position is at the point of being unbelievable by the person who seeks a normal flow of business and fair play. If there is any fault in this it is my lack of ability to present the case as well as it should be presented. I honestly believe that. I might not be presenting the best case on behalf of those people who are in difficulty on the River Foyle. I am delighted to have this opportunity of making this contribution. It is important — maybe not to the House or to individuals — to a number of families who are depending on fishing for a livelihood and who have to live in that area.

I appreciate the attendance of the Minister and of those who have waited to allow me to present this problem. I hope that by raising it today we will have started on the road to recover the industry for those that depend on it.

Minister of State at the Department of the Marine (Mr. Noonan,

Limerick West): I would like to thank the Seanad for giving me the opportunity to reply to this debate. The points raised will be examined very carefully. Notwithstanding what is stated I want to put on the record and to outline to the House to a certain extent the background of the Foyle Fisheries Commission which was established in 1952 under an arrangement between the then British and Irish Governments to provide for the management, conservation, protection and improvement of the fisheries of the Foyle catchment on a joint basis. It had proved impossible to arrange for this effectively on a unilateral basis previously, as part of the Foyle area is located in the State and part in Northern Ireland. The arrangement was given legislative effect through the Foyle Fisheries Act, 1952, and through a corresponding simultaneous Act in Northern Ireland. This element of dual legislation which is strictly comparable on both sides is one of the features of the joint administration of the fisheries of the Foyle area which is, in itself, a unique feature as regards administrative structures on this island.

The structure of the commission is prescribed in the Act under which it was established, that is, a total membership of four of whom two shall be senior members. One senior and one junior member are appointed by each of the responsible Ministers here and in Belfast. As of now, the appointments from this side are made by the Minister for the Marine. The chairmanship of the commission rotates between the respective senior members from each side with each holding it for a year at a time. Since the establishment of the commission all the members on both sides have been officers of the two government Departments concerned. The view has been taken — and I think it is a correct one — that in view of the intergovernmental nature of the commission and the sensitive nature of issues that fall to be discussed there from time to time it is best to have the membership confined to civil servants. Those civil servants have and always have had extensive administrative experience and detailed scientific knowledge of fisheries matters. I am satisfied that the civil servants who represent this Government and are nominated by the Department of the Marine are experienced personnel and are carrying out their duties unquestionably.

In practice, the commission operates mainly from its office in Derry which is the main base of its administrative and field staffs and is well located to give good coverage of the entire area. The commission makes and implements regulations under the enabling Acts of 1952 for the carrying out of its functions in such areas as regulation of fishing, licence duties, fishing seasons, etc. In practice, what happens when the commission proposes to make a regulation is that after the instrument has been signed by the senior member from both sides it is then sealed with the commission's own seal but does not come into effect until it has also been sealed with the seal of the two Ministers here and in Belfast. Thus, it is clear that there is a well established mechanism whereby a regulation can only be adopted when it has been considered in depth at all levels and in both jurisdictions.

The commission derives its own funds from fishing licence duties, fishery rates and, when practicable, the sale of fish from its own fishery. Any financial deficit arising from its operations is financed jointly by equal contributions from the Exchequers, North and South. Our contribution in 1989 was £135,000 and it is expected to be £150,000 in 1990.

I accept that there has been some criticism of the make up and functioning of the commission from within the area itself. In this connection some play has been made of the non-democratic nature of the commission. However, I would like to point out that the foundation Acts made express provision for the setting up of an Advisory Council for the Foyle area whose functions shall be "to watch over the interests of the holders of fishing licences and the occupiers of fisheries in the Foyle area, to make such suggestions and representations as it thinks proper to the Commission in relation to any of the Commission's functions, and to advise the Commission upon any matter referred to it by the Commission". I understand that this council meets occasionally — three to four times per year — and the last meeting was held in May 1990.

Membership of this council is elected by all licence holders and fishery owners in the Foyle area. It provides an opportunity for the views of all those with a genuine interest in the fisheries of the region to be represented to and taken account of by the commission.

I am, of course, prepared to listen to and to take on board any legitimate views and concerns being expressed about the operation of the commission. In this regard I know that I speak for the Minister as well. I want Senators to understand, however, from what I have indicated at the beginning that any substantive change in structures in the commission cannot be made unilaterally by us but could only be initiated through discussion and agreement with our partners. Consideration of such matters should take account of the commission's unique role as an example of North/South co-operation, an opportunity for fruitful contacts between Fisheries Departments, North and South and a vehicle for the preservation and enhancement of a shared natural resource in an area which has seen its share of troubles in the past 20 years.

As far as recent allegations of tainted fish in the Foyle go — and could I say these have nothing to do with the structure of the commission — I must point out that the Foyle Fisheries Commission has exactly the same powers in that part of the Foyle area coming within our jurisdiction as a regional fisheries board. As such, it has extensive powers of monitoring and enforcement in the fisheries interest under both section 171 of the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act, 1959, and the Local Government (Water Pollution) Act, 1977. These powers will be widened and strengthened and the penalties vastly increased under the Local Government (Water Pollution) Bill, 1989, which will be coming back to the Seanad very shortly having completed its passage through the Dáil. I should also say that the main responsibility for the preservation of water quality generally in our part of the Foyle area rests with Donegal County Council under the 1977 Act referred to earlier. I am sure that the elected members and officials of that council are fully aware of the situation on the ground and of their statutory responsibilities.

As regards the current problems with tainted fish I understand that the Minister, Deputy Wilson, recently met a deputation from the area who elaborated on the problems in great detail. I can inform the House that an investigation is currently under way involving officials of the commission, Donegal County Council and the Northern Ireland Department of the Environment, with the assistance of experts from my Department to try to get to the root of the problem. I have every confidence that this investigation will be successful and that any remedial measures recommended will be implemented.

I spoke first from the point of view of outlining the background to the Foyle Fisheries Commission and I want to reiterate that the representatives of my Department on the Foyle Commission are carrying out their functions very efficiently. As I have said at the beginning, I am glad of the opportunity to put on record the situation as I see it, and I hope I have done that.

The Seanad adjourned at 5.30 p.m. until 12 noon on Tuesday, 10 July 1990.