It is proposed to take Second Stage of the Payment of Wages Bill, 1991 until 1 o'clock. There will be a sos between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m., and from 2 p.m. until 4 p.m. there will be a discussion on the education motion. It is suggested that we have no more than 20 minutes for the opening speeches and 15 minutes thereafter for each Senator.
Order of Business.
Is it proposed to conclude item No. 3 today? I gather a number of speakers are offering on that. If it could be continued today rather than concluded, it would suit all sides.
I hope you will indulge me a little as I want to raise a small matter. This day 40 years ago something very sad happened in the world. It was the day on which China formally annexed Tibet. Could I suggest that the good wishes of this House — at least informally — would go out to the 40 years' oppression they of Tibet for the 40 years' oppression they have suffered since then?
I am concerned at the time schedule for the education debate. I do not think many speakers will get in if we have speeches which run to 20 minutes for opening speakers. We would be happy to see a reduced period of time available to everybody if the debate has to finish in two hours. Ten minutes or a quarter of an hour would be acceptable to us.
I would like to support what Senator B. Ryan said about the problematic and tragic case of the people of Tibet. It is appropriate because this country tried to ensure the rights of the people of Tibet, as well as being the country that supported the admission of the People's Republic of China to the United Nations. We have a very strong pivotal role there. I am glad that an opportunity was afforded. I am sure it expressed the views of all sides of the House.
I would like to ask the Leader of the House if it is proposed to grant time for a debate on the Middle East? We did have a debate about that Gulf War, but there is now a situation where a debate in this House could be helpful. There is a man at the moment in Tel Aviv, Abby Nathan, a peace campaigner, the owner of the Voice of Peace radio station, who is starving himself to death in protest against the treatment of the Palestinian people. I have also been approached by Amnesty International concerning the proposed execution of the man who assassinated Abou Iqad. A voice of peace coming from Ireland could be useful in the international forum. Therefore I would ask the Leader of the House to consider urgently the possibility of granting us a debate on the Middle East so that considered voices from Ireland which take a balanced view in this matter could be heard.
I would like to add my voice to those who want to extend the time devoted to the debate on education. This House has given roughly six hours to a debate on student exchange with the United States, which is a very minor part of our educational programme. Now we are proposing two hours for our educational programme at home. We should extend that time.
A number of speakers raised the question of extra time for the education debate. We have had motions of this kind and a number of education debates. There is also provision for matters on the Adjournment. We have one today from Senator Jackman. We have had Private Members' Time devoted to education. There has been a great deal of time devoted to debates on education in this House.
With regard to the suggestion by Senator Upton that we reduce the opening speeches to 15 minutes and allow ten minutes for each Senator, if the House agrees to that I have no objection. That might be the way forward.
It does not solve the problem.
The question of a debate on the other matter was not appropriate to the Order of Business. Senator Norris raised the question of another debate on the Middle East. We have had two debates on the Middle East problem. At this point I have no proposal for a third debate.
Senator Raftery's point was also dealt with in regard to the general query about the extension of the time for the debate on education. The way forward may be to take up the suggestion by Senator Upton of 15 minutes for the opening speaker and ten minutes thereafter.
Is the House agreed?
Not really. I do not want to be difficult about this but if you have four speakers for 15 minutes each, that is one hour. Then the Minister speaks for half an hour. There is time for only two or three other speakers and that is not sufficient. What I am proposing is that the motion not be concluded today and that it can be taken again some other day.
In fairness, the Minister has been told it is a two-hour debate. That has been agreed by the Whips. If the Minister does not mind coming in some other day, although my view is that we should conclude the debate this evening, I have no objection. We could resume the debate on another day but at this point the debate this afternoon will be from 2 p.m. to 4 p.m.
Could the Leader limit the Minister's time?
That is the real danger, the Minister could speak for an hour. It happened before in this House recently.
On the basis of what has been stated by the Leader of the House, is it agreed that 15 minutes be allowed for the leaders?
We will see how it goes.
If we are having a special debate on education it is a bit of a farce to have the debate for just two hours. There are quite a few people who want to speak. It could be three or four hours, or we could do as I proposed and have it open-ended so that the debate could be taken another day. There are plenty of days in June.
I will come back to that later.
We could have started the debate last evening.
Order of Business agreed to.