Seanad Éireann debate -
Friday, 20 Dec 1991

Vol. 130 No. 20

Radio Broadcasting of Seanad Proceedings: Motion.

Mr. Fallon

I move:

(a) That until further notice Seanad Éireann authorise, on payment of such fees as may be determined by the Broadcasting Control Committee from time to time, the broadcasting on sound by national, local and foreign radio broadcasters of the proceedings of Seanad Éireann, other than proceedings at the commencement of each sitting relating to the ordering of business;

(b) that such broadcasting be either live or in edited extracts or recordings;

(c) that recordings or extracts of the proceedings should not be used in programmes of light entertainment, political satire, party political broadcasts or in any form of advertising or publicity, other than in the form of news and current affairs programme trailers;

(d) that broadcasters be permitted on request to carry live coverage of any item of business subject to the following conditions:

(i) that such item be broadcast in its entirety and not be interrupted by commentary, analysis or commercial breaks;

and

(ii) that such item may not be rebroadcast in whole or in part except as permitted in and subject to the terms of this Order;

(e) that copyright of the material be vested in the Cathaoirleach on behalf of Seanad Éireann;

(f) that broadcasters ensure political balance in the material they use;

(g) that the Broadcasting Control Committee be responsible for the necessary administrative and financial arrangements for sound broadcasting of the proceedings;

(h) that the Committee on Procedure and Privileges appoint a subcommittee to monitor and review the operation of this Order on an ongoing basis;

(i) that a Broadcast Manager be responsible for management of the sound broadcasting of proceedings on behalf of and subject to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, including enforcement of rules of coverage; and act as a general point of liaison for Members, and broadcasting companies.

The radio broadcasting of the proceedings of this House commenced as a result of resolution of the Dáil and Seanad in March 1987 and July 1987 respectively. These resolutions provide for broadcasting in edited form by RTE only and empower RTE to sell recordings to foreign broadcasting stations subject to certain conditions. In addition, live broadcasting of certain proceedings is authorised from time to time by order of either or both Houses as appropriate.

At this time RTE was the only legal broadcasting station operating in this country. A number of other illegal or pirate stations were on air but these stations had no legal status and therefore were not entitled to access to proceedings.

Following the establishment of the Independent Radio and Television Commission over 20 local radio franchises were awarded. The only means of access to proceedings for radio broadcasting available to these local stations was through RTE. In 1990 and 1991 the Dáil and Seanad respectively embarked on televised broadcasting of proceedings. Following the commencement of televised broadcasting using an independent contractor, a Broadcasting Control Committee was established to make the administrative and financial arrangement for broadcasting. The sale and marketing of the televised proceedings form part of the agreement of this committee. The arrangements for television broadcasting were therefore incompatible with arrangements for radio broadcasting.

In order to regularise this position Dáil Éireann resolved to change the basis of radio broadcasting of its proceedings on 19 December 1990 and, having assessed the position for the last 12 months, we are now prepared to proceed with radio broadcasting. Following this resolution the Broadcasting Control Committee commenced negotiations with local radio on a contribution for access to proceedings. Access fees were fixed by the committee on 28 November 1991 and local radio is now broadcasting Dáil proceedings.

There has been a very high level of interest shown in access to the proceedings of Seanad Éireann. The Committee of Procedure and Privileges took this into consideration when deciding at its meeting on Wednesday last, to permit the live broadcasting of proceedings on radio under terms set out in the motion. The purpose of this motion is to confer the responsibility for access on the Broadcasting Centrol Committee to ensure the widest possible coverage for proceedings of Seanad Éireann.

I would like to bring one restriction which has been set out in the motion to the attention of the House, that is, the exclusion of the debate on the Order of Business each day. This exclusion was made to ensure that the Order of Business would not be used to raise matters which would not be relevant to the proposed business on the day.

Mr. Manning

I welcome this order. What we see now confirms what many of us felt all along. That is that there would be a great deal of interest on the part of local broadcasting stations in some of the debates taking place in this House. Indeed, the degree of interest has surpassed expectations, so this is a very welcome extension of the existing broadcasting system and will make the proceedings of this House on specific issues in this House more relevant to different areas of the country.

I agree with the restriction in regard to the Order of Business because we could find that the Order of Business would become a platform for the raising of a whole variety of local issues and the temptation might be too great to resist. In saying that, I also think we should look very hard at the way in which the Order of Business is conducted and try to ensure that people who have genuine points to raise have an opportunity to do that in a way which makes an impact without having the prolonged Order of Business which we have suffered through over the past year or so and which brings no great distinction to the House and does not very effectively serve the purpose of the Members who want to raise points.

I welcome this and I think that it will make the proceedings of the House even better known.

Mr. Norris

I also welcome the introduction of this motion but I wonder why it has taken a year. It is a pity that this lapse occurred. I accept that the Leader, as he says, monitored this situation during that period. The desire of many local radio stations to take the proceedings in the Seanad and rebroadcast them was made so manifest that they finally agreed to accede to it. One of the hesitations expressed to me when I mentioned this to some other people in the political life of the Seanad was that there would be too much local material in the Seanad, but this is one way in which the Seanad could be made relevant to local areas. People throughout the country will be interested and glad to learn that matters of direct concern to them are also of concern to Seanad Éireann.

I do not agree with the exclusion of the Order of Business because this is a form of censorship. Why are we excluding it? Is it because we are ashamed of the way we behave on the Order of Business? That is a very serious question. I am not ashamed of the way I behave, even though it may appear sometimes that I am disruptive. I raise issues in a certain way because this is the only way many issues can be raised. I deprecate this form of censorship being introduced voluntarily through the Seanad. I should like to ask the Leader of the House to have this monitored and examined when the proceedings of the Seanad are broadcast.

Many items are raised on the Order of Business because this is the only mechanism whereby Members can raise matters that are of immediate, public, national or even local importance. To deprive the people of access to this, admittedly unsatisfactory, machinery is unnecessary and retrogressive and I hope this will be thought out again. You, a Chathaoirligh, are a strong Chairman of the Seanad and you usually show yourself quite capable of restraining people, including even myself — and I can be fairly headstrong from time to time——

An Cathaoirleach

With regret I have to say.

Mr. Norris

I am quite happy that you would continue to be able to control the Order of Business even if these discussions became excessive. In the New Year, when broadcasting is introduced, I urge the Government to think again. It is very important that the Order of Business should be broadcast. I do not suppose it would be appropriate to put down an amendment on this matter but I hope the Leader will be able to give us an undertaking that this matter is open to further review and that it will be considered when the Committee on Procedure and Privileges review the various suggestions for reform of the Seanad — some of which dealt clearly with the situation on the Order of Business — when these reforms are introduced and matters are tidied up, with goodwill on the part of all Members of the House. Members will not wish to make fools of themselves on local issues, especially if they think the folly may be rebroadcast to their constituency.

The broadcasting of the Order of Business, far from leading to a further deterioration, could actually impose a discipline and ensure there was less lighthearted babble and less frivolousness, and people going forward at the next general election would be very careful to appear to behave responsibly. I strongly urge the Leader to consider this matter. I will not try to put down an amendment because it would be tedious and bothersome at this stage, and I am sure it would not get through. I am enough of a democrat not to waste the time of the House. I would like to ask the Leader to reconsider this matter and to consult with Members of his own party who have experience in broadcasting and who may have a view on this matter which would be very interesting for him to listen to.

An Cathaoirleach

I should point out at this stage, for the information of the House, it is my intention to convene a meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges early in January to allow an opportunity for all Members on the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to discuss at length all the matters of concern to Members of the House: the form of the Order of Business, the form it should have for the future; the arrangements we should make in relation to matters of public interest and topical matters; the arrangements we should make in relation to matters of urgency which Members wish to raise and, perhaps, the rescheduling of the time of motions on the Adjournment to allow matters of importance to be given the fullest expression. If we are in a position to change the format of the Order of Business and make it relevant and if by agreement of the House we allow a further opportunity during the day, to discuss matters that up to now have not been appropriate to the Order of Business many of the improvements which Members seek would be achieved.

I thank Senators for their comments in the debate on the role of the Seanad, for the concern they have expressed and the opportunity they will afford the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to discuss all these matters.

Mr. Costello

You have said much of what I had intended to say——

Mr. Norris

From a stronger position.

Mr. Costello

——and I am delighted to know that you intend to convene a meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges with a view to introducing these reforms.

I welcome the extension of broadcasting of the proceedings of this House at local and national levels. For far too long we had our heads in the sand and feared the introduction of outside broadcasting to the House. We operated in a little preserve where the ordinary member of the public was not able to see or hear what we were doing. I am delighted that we have taken so easily to the idea of broadcasting and I am anxious to see it proceed.

I have the same concerns as those already expressed about the Order of Business. It is in inappropriate to limit or to prevent the recording of the Order of Business at a time when we have not set in place an alternative or a substitute mechanism in which we can raise matters of current concern which we feel are important. I am delighted that you, a Chathaoirligh, see this as part of the overall reform which will be discussed at the meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

Paragraph (c) of item No. 4 on today's Order Paper states:

that recordings or extracts of the proceedings should not be used in programmes of light entertainment, political satire,...

I think we are too cautious in that area. I do not see any good reason material should not be used in this arena. We have nothing to fear. I do not think this facility would be abused if used for entertainment or political satire. We know what would happen: it would be an unnecessary restriction and another form of censorship. There is an element of censorship already in limiting us in respect of the Order of Business, but there is a further limitation on how the material can be used and I object to that too. I note also from paragraph (h) of the motion the provision to appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to monitor and review the operation of this order. I hope those areas will be addressed.

Mr. Dardis

In common with other Members I welcome this order. I believe we have something to contribute both locally and nationally and that we can do so with a quality of debate which may sometimes be absent from the other House. Our proceedings in the past session have been good. We can show ourselves in a certain creditable light compared with some of the acrimony that took place in the other House.

I share the reservations expressed by Senator Manning and Senator Fallon about the Order of Business. As it stands at present it would be appropriate to exclude it, but if it were tidied up it would be appropriate to broadcast. There is a definite tendency, as we saw when television was introduced, for many people to raise local issues on the Order of Business — not that those points are unimportant but they are more appropriately dealt with through another device rather than on the Order of Business. The Cathaoirleach would agree with that. Perhaps we could have more motions on the Adjournment, but that is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to consider.

We had a very wide-ranging good debate on reform. Many good ideas have to come out of it and I hope the Committee on Procedure and Privileges can progress those ideas so that the House becomes more relevant. It is the essence of democracy that people should be able to hear and see what is taking place in the Houses of the Oireachtas. They may choose to disregard what they hear and see, or indeed they may not even want to switch on their televisions or radios to hear it, but they should have that opportunity. The onus is on us to make our proceedings relevant to what is taking place in the country. If we do that successfully there will be a wide audience for what we have to say. I welcome the order.

Mr. Cassidy

I welcome it as well, as the one who suffered here last Thursday on the Adjournment. My local radio station wanted to broadcast the debate in relation to the Mullingar-Sligo railway line and this brought the issue before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges this week. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges and the Cathaoirleach were very wise to wait to see what would happen in the other House. Seanad Éireann being televised over the last year or more has given a great extra arm to us here in the House to show the country what very responsible parliamentarians we are and the great contributions being made in the House. From the point of view of the local radio stations, maybe the Committee on Procedure and Privileges could have a look at broadcasting the matters on the Adjournment. That is a very important way of getting local issues highlighted and brought to the attention of the various Ministers and the various Departments. I welcome the proposal.

Question put and agreed to.