It is proposed to take Items Nos. 2 and No. 3 until 6 p.m. and motion 44 from 6.30 p.m. to conclude at 8 p.m.
Order of Business.
As you indicated at the start of business, a Chathaoirligh, very momentous changes have taken place since the House last met. One Taoiseach has gone and a new Taoiseach and Government have taken office. Although the Order of Business is not the appropriate time to discuss these matters, it would be appropriate that at the earliest possible opportunity — I hope it will be during this week — Members be given a chance to say farewell to the former Taoiseach and discuss the appointment of a new Taoiseach and Government and matters arising from that. I suggest to the Leader of the House that, as this is the second House of the Oireachtas, he consider inviting the Taoiseach to come to this House to outline his views on the state of the nation and to hear the views of this House. I ask him to do that at the earliest possible date so that Members can make their contribution to the current debate.
There has been mention in the past few days of the possibility of a new forum to discuss Northern Ireland. While that may be a good idea, I must point out that we have such a forum, this House. I ask the Acting Leader of the House to accede to requests that the House have a full debate, with contributions from all sides, on Northern Ireland in as constructive a way as possible and as soon as possible.
I would very much welcome an opportunity to debate the resignation of Deputy Haughey as Taoiseach. Gan dabht ar domhan ní bheidh a leithéid ann arís.
I would also welcome an opportunity for a full debate on the Government and on the importance of implementing policies, particularly those aimed at addressing the problem of unemployment.
I welcome the initiatives taken in relation to Northern Ireland and I hope the Acting Leader of the House will accede to our request for a debate on them.
I support Senator Manning's call for a debate on Northern Ireland. I have made a similar call so many times that it would be redundant for me to add further to it.
I also feel that it would be appropriate for the House to have an opportunity not to rehash the past but to extend our good wishes to the new Taoiseach and his Cabinet. I am sure everyone hopes they will succeed.
I realise that new Ministers have taken charge of portfolios and it would be unrealistic for us to demand immediate answers, but I remind the Acting Leader of the House that item No. 40 which deals with the consequences of the European Court judgment on the matter of homosexuality, is still a matter of considerable concern to me. It is perhaps of a little more concern to me as a result of yesterday's appointments, but one never knows, people do change and seek to impress with new-found virtues. Deputy Burke certainly showed himself to be a progressive Minister in some regards and I hope Deputy Flynn will.
I ask the Acting Leader of the House if the Government have taken note of the consequences of the referendum on abortion, as reported in today's Irish Times.
That is not appropriate to the Order of Business, as the Senator will understand.
May I then put the issue on the record in a slightly different way?
If the Senator wants to ask the Acting Leader an appropriate question on the Order of Business, he may do so.
In that case, I would ask the Acting Leader to convey to the Minister for Justice the concern felt by people that according to the newspapers, a 14-year old victim of rape is currently, or is about to become the subject of an injunction in the matter of abortion, and ask if he or that party feel satisfied this is a humane method of proceeding.
Since we last met there have been enormous changes and I ask the Acting Leader of the House if he would give us an opportunity to discuss the changes that have taken place and, indeed, the programme that might be envisaged by the new Administration. We have a new Taoiseach, a new Cabinet and as the new Taoiseach mentioned, a new dream ticket to get Ireland going again. It would be most appropriate if we could have a debate in the Seanad on the state of the nation and invite the Taoiseach to contribute. Perhaps we could take Motion No. 9, which the Acting Leader put down, as part and parcel of that, because it deals with industrial policy.
On the proposal by the Labour Party Leader, Deputy Spring, to have an all-party forum on Northern Ireland, it is most appropriate that we should establish one. Indeed, there have been encouraging signs from Northern Ireland leaders that they are going to meet on a regular basis. That does not inhibit a long overdue discussion on Northern Ireland in this House. Will the Leader give time for such a debate in the very near future?
I support Senator Manning's imaginative proposal that the new Taoiseach be asked to address the House. Obviously, while we cannot discuss the changes in Government, those changes modify our concerns on a wide range of issues, because of the fresh personnel and the fresh sense of commitment of the Government. Will the Acting Leader consider the following points and perhaps put them to the Government? Under this new regime, I hope the Government take Seanad Éireann seriously: I hope the new Ministers will do us the courtesy of coming in here and taking their appropriate briefs, isntead of assigning them, quite frequently — I mean no offence — to Ministers of State who are totally unconnected with the subject.
I ask the Senator to put his question to the Acting Leader rather than make a speech on the issue.
I never make speeches on the Order of Business.
I know.
Secondly, would the Acting Leader again convey to the Government the urgency of dealing with the subjects raised in Items Nos. 22 and 25 on the Supplementary Order Paper, which in brief ask that justice be done and amends be made to Mr. Nicky Kelly? This is particularly appropriate now, because tomorow a British House of Commons group is being formed to consider this matter. As I said before, we will be shamed into it. Also, we have a new Minister for Foreign Affairs whose sense of commitment in redressing injustices is very well known.
Finally, I support the call that has been made again and again for a debate on Northern Ireland. Here again we have the sense of a new start — the British Prime Minister's initiative yesterday, and the new Taoiseach's commitment to going to any limits to promote a settlement in Northern Ireland. Last week, a number of us said we doubted whether a debate in Seanad Éireann could really make any contribution. I have changed my mind on that. When we talk about Northern Ireland we should, individually and collectively, not just make ritual condemnations but examine how far our attitudes are contributing to the problem in Northern Ireland and how far we can change them to help towards a proper solution.
I wish to join in the requests for a discussion on the new Government. Very dramatic events took place in the past week and it would be appropriate for this House to discuss them and the future direction of the Government.
I would also ask the Acting Leader to bring forward the debate on Northern Ireland. Last week we had condemnation of the slaughter in the province. It was appropriate to condemn the appalling incidents that took place, but there are some signs for hope following the mass meeting in Belfast, the visit of our President to that city and developments yesterday. They demand a political response and it is now time for politicians to take centre stage and put their views. We can do a useful days work in this House by doing so.
Finally, will the Acting Leader indicate when it is intended to take item No. 9, the report of the Industrial Policy Review Group? Given the unacceptably high level of unemployment, it would be appropriate to discuss that document because it charts at least one path forward in how to deal with some of those appalling problems.
I too would welcome a visit by the Taoiseach to the House to discuss procedures and the role the Seanad could play. I have no doubt the Taoiseach would welcome the opportunity to speak to the House. I strongly support the Members who asked for a debate on the problems in Northern Ireland. We have requested such a debate for a long time. I call on the Acting Leader of the House to approach the new Minister for Foreign Affairs to ask him to visit the Seanad to hear our strong views. I have a contribution to make to such a debate. The population in the North of Ireland are under great pressure——
I have noted the Senator's request but I would prefer if he did not make a speech.
I accept the Chair's guidance and I will tailor my contribution accordingly. For the ordinary law abiding citizens in the North of Ireland security is not the answer. They are under pressure and the circumstances under which they are living do not have an equivalent in Europe. Regardless of whether other fora are set up, this House should——
I have given the Senator a great deal of latitude.
I ask the Acting Leader to invite the Minister so that we can have a debate on the problem.
Ba maith liom a fhiafraí den Cheannaire: (1) an bhfuil sé i gceist cáipéisí uilig an Tí seo a chur ar fáil i nGaeilge agus i mBéarla mar ata riachtanach faoi Bhuan-orduithe and tSeanaid agus faoin mBunreacht; agus (2) an bhféadfaí díospóireacht a chur ar siúl sa Teach seo faoi stádas Aerfort na Sionainne i gcomhthéacs na tíre agus an chaoi a bhfuil sí i leith iarthar na hEireann.
Only the Independents care about Shannon.
Will the Acting Leader inform the House, or establish from the Minister for Justice, when it is proposed to introduce the legislation to deal with the settling of matrimonial property arising from the recent High Court decision? This is critically important from the point of view of women's rights. If the Acting Leader is not in a position to let us know immediately, will he find out and convey the information to the House?
I congratulate Deputy Geoghegan-Quinn on her appointment, but I am disappointed she is the only woman in the Cabinet.
This is definitely not appropriate to the Order of Business, as the Senator appreciates.
We are all the same. We are all elected.
I got more than 15 votes.
I should like the Acting Leader to convey to the Minister the annoyance of legislators that an airline can now dictate transport policy and to ask that she would take steps to ensure this does not happen. Being from the west, I know she will support the continued status of Shannon.
I wish the new Taoiseach and his Government well in dealing with the pressing problems which are ahead of them and I support the call by Senator Manning that the Taoiseach would come to this Chamber and outline to us his proposals for Government for the coming period.
In view of the recent court case where those who wilfully destroyed the Drogheda Grammar School were fined a paltry £10,000, is there any intention on the part of the Government to bring forward legislation to protect the very rich architectural heritage of this country and not to rely on out-dated legislation which is totally ineffective? We have Ministers coming in here and telling us we have got the dangerous buildings legislation to protect our listed buildings. To prevent a similar tragedy happening again, is there any intention on the part of the Government to bring forward adequate legislation?
On the last occasion I spoke on whether we should have a debate on Northern Ireland I was opposed to it, for the very good reason that they were in the middle of discussions at that time. Since there are no discussions at present and there is the possibility of some taking place, I now think the time is appropriate and I concur with Senators Manning and Murphy that we should have this debate as quickly as possible, preferably before they get down to talking.
Secondly, I support Senator Murphy with regard to Nicky Kelly
I would also like to point out, as I do every few months, that it is not fair to say that there should not be speeches on the Order of Business——
It is a matter of interpretation.
There is a long tradition of long speeches on the Order of Business. The issue raised by Senator Manning, the request to the new Taoiseach to come here and outline the programme of action and his views and philosophy, is an excellent one and should be addressed. Speaker after speaker has asked for a debate on Northern Ireland. I am the only person in this House with an office in Belfast and I have been there for three days of the past week. I was at the demonstration last week in Belfast. I was in west Belfast last week when the Sinn Féin office was blown up. My members taught the young child who was killed in the bookie's office. The President of my union was in a school in Armagh yesterday which had been blown up before Christmas and has just reopened. I am making the point that it hits every aspect of our lives.
Words are important. They are almost more important than action because the actions of everybody are suspect — what side are you on? What is the hidden agenda? Where are you going? People are looking for leadership from politicians and we need at least to say where we are going and what we are going to do. Our actions and commitments are led by our words.
The greatest issue in Ireland today, whether we are looking at the past or to the future is still whether there will be peace. We have to look at that. I recognise, a Chathaoirligh, that you feel I am going on a bit and I will conclude at that. I believe above all else that we have to look at that problem. I have a responsibility to those people whom I represent in the North, both in the trade union sense and politically, and also to children and pupils. We all have different responsibilities in different ways.
I came back from Belfast late last night. We blame the security forces. I went through five security checks between 2 a.m. and 3 a.m. They are doing what they can do. An attitude change is necessary and we have to address it.
Senators Manning, Upton, Norris and Dardis raised the issue of an invitation to the new Taoiseach to the House. That invitation was issued this morning and I hope the Taoiseach will come to the House next week to address us.
Senator Murphy hoped the new Government and Taoiseach would take note of this House. The Taoiseach's record as Minister stands. I remember he was in the House to introduce Bills and always paid this House that courtesy. I hope, subject to further discussion with the Whips, that we would have an hour next week to discuss the issues as outlined.
On the Northern Ireland debate, I made contact with the new Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Andrews. He obviously has just arrived at his new post but would be conscious of the fact that this issue has been raised here every week. I made the views of the House know to him. He would like to have some time over the weekend and come back to us on it. He indicated he would look forward to coming to this House on occasions. I hope to have some definite information on that soon.
Motion 40 was raised by Senator Norris. I ask the Senator to await the White Paper which I hope will be forthcoming quite soon. Item No. 9 was raised by Senator Costello and Senator Dardis. I hope that over the coming weeks, subject to agreement between the Whips, we will have a debate on industrial policy.
Order of Business agreed to.