I welcome the new Minister of State to the House. It is a great pleasure for me to do so because we served together on the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Women's Rights. I am aware of how sensitive and caring the Minister is. I say this without prejudice to the outcome of the debate of which obviously I am uncertain. The track record of the Government has not been great up to this in this area.
I contacted members of the other parties and groups in the House today and they indicated to me their full support. Senator Manning indicated he would speak for Fine Gael and Senator Conroy indicated he would be in a position to say a few words in support for Fianna Fáil. They also indicated that other duties may detain them and they may not be able to speak. I make the point at the outset that I have once again secured support for this motion from all sections in the House.
I am not sure if this Minister has had an opportunity to look at the previous debates but he would notice there that I had letters from the Leaders of all the parties, with the exception of Fianna Fáil although I had a very positive and strong letter from the then Tánaiste, Deputy Brian Lenihan. I would say first, to put it in context, that there is a considerable body of support in the Oireachtas for this and it makes it rather an unusual situation.
This matter has been twice debated in Seanad Éireann at my instigation. It was supported on those occasions by all parties and groups. The rebuilding of the Hirschfeld Centre has twice been approved by Dublin Corporation for a grant of £50,000. This, however, was twice rejected by the then Minister for the Environment, Deputy Padraig Flynn, on the grounds that no money was available — a proposition which I challenge and will do so using figures from the lottery allocation which will show a disturbing sense of priority on the part of the Government. This is despite the fact that there has been full public acknowledgment by churches, Government Ministers and people active in social work, community work and, very significantly, in AIDS prevention. There has been full public acknowledgment and recognition of the range of services provided by this important community centre in the total absence of the provision by Government, either at local level in Dublin or nationally, of the kind of services provided by the Hirschfeld Centre, which is a centre of national importance and is so regarded in many responsible quarters.
The history of the centre is briefly as follows. After a difficult period in the movement towards social change which I was involved with others in pioneering and which had its difficulties — I am sure the Minister will sympathise with this and I think it was Brendan Behan who said the first item on the Irish agenda is always a split and true to type we had our split but it was not the first item, it was the second item — I established a two part machine. Under that money would be generated for social purposes, counselling services, advice, a telephone service, a service for young people and their parents to assist in the trauma for families and so on which would be funded from the provision of recreational facilities, in other words, discotheques. This raised considerable revenue which was channelled back. As a result of division between the people running this operation the initial premises was lost and I retired entirely into the political arena and founded the campaign for homosexual law reform with no resources except a drawer and a filing cabinet.
As a result of approaches from people, and these were young people, mature people and the parents of young gay people, I went into operation again by taking a lease on No. 10 Fownes Street Upper in the Temple Bar area in 1978 in order to establish another community centre for gay people located in Dublin but operating on a national basis. The centre catered for the recreational, counselling, educational and medical advice needs of gay people and their families. The Hirschfeld Centre was the focus of the first attempt to counter the spread of the AIDS virus here.
The Minister may be interested to know that I was in constant communication with the United States of America because of their civil liberty approach to this whole issue and I received fortnightly bulletins from the principal gay organisation in Los Angeles and San Francisco. By 1982 an unusual constellation of diseases was beginning to manifest itself in the gay community. It included pneumocystis carinii and Kaposi's sarcoma, which is a very rare tumour normally found in elderly men in subtropical Africa. The gay community generally became rather alarmed by this but they did not know what it was. At that point in 1982, which I am sure the Minister will agree was very early, I established a system where we had leaflets published, lectures and information made available on sexual hygiene. It subsequently became what is now known as safe sex techniques. We brought over medical authorities from San Francisco to give public lectures in the Hirschfeld Centre on his subject.
The Minister will know that the profile of the disease in Ireland is slightly different to most other European countries. I attribute part of this to the successful operation of the Hirschfeld Centre. From the Hirschfeld Centre, virtually every significant voluntary organisation attempting to cope with the onset of the virus in Ireland has sprung and I can point to virtually every single one. It may not appear to be the case for certain rather interesting reasons that indicate the degree of repression here.
Through the Hirschfeld Centre, first of all the gay community and subsequently the rest of the population, were alerted to the risks of infection by the AIDS virus. Two hundred and fifty thousand leaflets — one quarter of a million leaflets — were printed and distributed dealing with the virus, outlining the dangers and advising on safe sexual techniques and sexual hygiene. We did that at a time when I had to inform the then Minister for Health, Deputy Barry Desmond, that we were actually breaking the law in publishing this information but we did so. We alerted the Minister to the fact that we were doing it and I am very glad we did. This prompt, efficient and responsible action had a major impact on the profile of the disease especially in the gay community here.
I pay tribute to people in the gay community because it did not stop selfishly with the gay community. People within my community learned of the disease, learned how to handle it, how to cope with the medical, social and family aspect of the disease and, with extraordinary generosity and decency, reached out to other sections of the community such as those using drugs and haemophiliacs in order to make their expertise available.
It is worth noting that in discussions with the Danish Minister for Education, Mrs. Dottir Bennedson, I discovered that the Danish Government made available to the gay community in Copenhagen 750,000 Danish kroners to assist directly in their campaign against AIDS. The important point is that the Danish Government, four years ago, made precisely twice that amount available to the gay community for the provision of a community centre in the centre of Copenhagen. The reasoning, if we were to draw any kind of moral reservations from this subject, is quite simple although perhaps a little sophisticated at first but very illuminating. The Danish Government fully understood that in dealing with AIDS, where there is a life threatening insidious disease, attacking, first of all a community that is diffuse, disparate and difficult to reach, spread throughout all regions of the city and country, all social, educational classes and religious groups who have only two things in common — sexual orientation and a special vulnerability to the first wave of the infection — it was absolutely essential to have an efficient method for the distribution of information and communication. That must be registered by the Government. The Danish Government understood the situation and gave 750,000 Danish kroners for the AIDS project and they gave twice that amount to found a gay community centre because they understood the necessity for a mechanism of communications. This responsible attitude on the part of central Government has not been followed in Ireland. Indeed, my consistent experience has been that it is virtually impossible to attract any funding from Government whatever to organisations associated with the gay community.
For this reason, many of those marvellous people working in the front lines reaching out to all those from whatever section of society who are threatened by the onset of the disease are reluctant to disclose their own sexual orientation for fear that funds will dry up. This attitude has been confirmed to me privately by senior civil servants in at least three Government Departments. In other words, if people who do the work acknowledge publicly that they are gay, the money dries up. If that is not discrimination I would very much like to be informed what it is. I have personal experience of this. I am not relying on hearsay, I know it to be true.
When the Hirschfeld Centre was being set up I took the responsible step of forming a limited company in which since I put up all the initial capital, I assumed responsibility for a majority shareholding distributing the remaining 40 per cent of shares to other board members who were prepared voluntarily to serve the community. Company records have been kept scrupulously and are open for inspection. All taxes and rates have been paid and to date over £120,000 has been paid to the Revenue Commissioners in tax revenue. No profit whatever has been taken by any individual or group working within or controlling the centre. No member of the board has received a fee, expenses or anything else. None of us objected to working for nothing. None of us objected to paying the State the taxes due, unlike many entertainment projects in the city either gay or straight. I know a lot of discotheque owners do not pay any tax but we paid every last penny. It came as an unpleasant surprise to us to discover, after the building was destroyed by fire, that simply because none of us had taken a penny profit we were surcharged for tax on the basis of what the Revenue Commissioners called non-distribution of profit.
I have already consulted lawyers with a view to transferring my interest into a trust fund, which I still intend to do, and I also hope to persuade the other directors to do likewise and seek charitable status. I was advised, however, that because of prevailing prejudice it was highly unlikely that charitable status would be accorded to us. As I have already said, I do not object to working for nothing, I do not object to paying taxes but, on the other hand, I object most strongly to receiving no recognition whatever for the work we have done in the way in which it matters, which is financial terms, because at the end of the day it comes down to money. The Government rely on voluntary agencies all the time. We were hit by an act which may have been malicious or may have been an accident but the building was destroyed and we have received no assistance from the Government so far. Perhaps the Minister will have some good news for us today.
I most vehemently object to being subjected to further crippling taxes precisely because we work for nothing. It seems mad. We did work which the Government complimented us on. We work for nothing and we pay for the privilege. Then we are charged more because we do not take a profit. I do not understand the logic of that.
The site of the Hirschfeld Centre in the heart of the Temple Bar area of Dublin gives another clear example of the nebulous way in which prejudice still exists in this country. When I took the lease of 10 Fownes Street in 1978 — by the way, we have bought the place now through our own efforts — the area was derelict and life in the area virtually extinct. All that existed were a few run down pubs, a barber's shop and on the extreme fringes of the area the Project Theatre of which I was a board member and which was threatened with closure and demolition by Dublin Corporation because it dared to sponsor a sensitive and significant play on the subject of homosexuality.
Through the Hirschfeld Centre we ran discotheques not just for gay people but for women's groups, green groups and environmental groups. We fed and watered those engaged in the Wood Quay Viking site protest and so on. Every week at its peak more than 1,500 people, gay and non-gay, young people and their families and friends, passed through the doors of the Hirschfeld Centre. It was the vital presence of this community centre in the heart of the Temple Bar that alerted many of those who subsequently started small businesses in the area to the opportunities that existed. There is no question that it was the Hirschfeld Centre, before any member of Government was aware of the existence of Temple Bar, that created the special atmosphere that is today acknowledged in that area.
I sometimes smile a little cynically when I read in newspaper after newspaper, and hear in broadcast after broadcast, about the Left Bank of Dublin in Temple Bar, about the Bohemian atmosphere, about the Latin quality of the area. I have, however, yet to hear, see or read any reference whatever to the existence of the Hirschfeld Centre which was responsible for this rejuvenation. Where in God's name do these people think the Bohemian atmosphere came from? It did not just pour out of the sky or float down the Liffey in a bubble. The Left Bank Bohemian atmosphere came from the dynamic work of the volunteers in the Hirschfeld Centre. Nevertheless the Hirschfeld Centre seems to be specifically excluded from any of the benefits which it helped to create. This is tangible though subtle discrimination.
I have been involved in programmes to revive the inner city of Dublin, not only in the Temple Bar area but also in other areas of the inner city, such as North Great George's Street. I have made it my business to understand how the European Community funding works. Fifteen years ago I appointed myself as ambassador extraordinary and envoy plenipotentiary from North Great George's Street to the European Community and I visited the Berlaymont Building in pursuit of funds for the north inner city. I believe I now understand reasonably well how the European machine works. I am well aware of the fact that in attracting funds from the Community one of the key factors that must be promoted by Government is assistance to the disadvantaged.
To me it is extraordinary that a self-reliant, though disadvantaged, group like the gay community should have, by their own efforts, created the energy leading to the rejuvenation of a inner city area and subsequently be deprived of any assistance whatever from central Government. I believe that were I but to raise the phone to Brussels now and draw the attention of the relevant commissioners to the situation obtaining in Temple Bar I could raise an important question mark about the continuing availability of European funds to this area, but I will not do so. It is not in my nature to be a dog in the manger. However, it is now high time that the generous, responsible and unpaid work of the gay community was properly recognised. It is quite unacceptable for me to sit in Seanad Éirenn and be told yet again, that no funds are available.
The last time I was told this I checked the allocation of lottery funds in the city and county areas of Dublin. The results of such an examination are quite revealing. It is impossible to find money for the Hirschfeld Centre, a centre of national importance but it was possible to find page after page in which there was an allocation of funds to golf clubs, GAA clubs, football clubs and local community centres. In the same allocation that on the last occasion the Hirschfeld Centre was refused even one miserable pound of Government money, to which we had contributed £120,000 in taxes, no less than £40,000 was made available for a scout hut in Marino. The total allocation from lottery funds to the Catholic Boy Scouts of Ireland in the greater Dublin area was £165,540 and not one penny was given to the Hirschfeld Centre. It is not my intention to be unpleasant, contentious or begrudging but this suggests a strange sense of priorities on behalf of the Government.
On the question of lottery allocations, I strongly feel that it is in the interests of everybody, including the Minister, that the allocation of lottery funding should be removed from the personal discretion of the Minister. The Government gave an undertaking that the distribution of funds would be made by an all party committee. I understand perfectly why the GAA get so much money; it is because they are perfect politically and are very important and valuable social community centres. It is a wonderful way of buying votes.
My last point deals with the very interesting attitude of Deputy Collins whose heart bled for Glór na nGael in Belfast. They squawked about discrimination because of a cultural centre. I am sure they are wonderful people. I know one of them was subsequently arrested on an IRA charge, but one cannot smear the whole group with that. There was great enthusiasm by Deputy Collins for Glór na nGael but he was not too keen on the Hirschfeld Centre, and neither was the previous Minister for the Environment. Perhaps it will be third time lucky.
I will raise the funds anyway. I am damned — if that is not unparliamentary language — if I will get out of Temple Bar when we created the resurgence in the area. If I have to go on tour as a kind of circus act with my James Joyce show or my Frank O'Connor short story show, so be it. I hope the Government will be a little more generous and at least leave the door open. I would be very happy to talk to the Minister for the Environment, who I know is a decent man as is the Minister for State, or any other Department when they suggest we would get some assistance. Whatever happens, the centre will be rebuilt.
