It is proposed to take item No. 1, the Matrimonial Home Bill, 1993, Committee and Final Stages, if we can make that progress, between now and 6 p.m., and from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. Item No. 29 will be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. The Adjournment debate will take place at the conclusion of today's business.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed by me at least. Since we last met we have had another week of murderous barbarity in Northern Ireland. I would like, on behalf of my group, to extend our sympathy to the families of all those killed in Greysteel and to the family of the RUC officer who was shot at Newry and died yesterday.
On the question of Northern Ireland, I would also like to express the goodwill of this side of the House to the Tánaiste in his discussions at the Anglo-Irish Conference today. Obviously, we are not going to get a solution to the Northern problem today, but anything which can help to bring about a cessation of violence and the peaceful conditions which we all desire is to be welcomed. It is important that the support of all parties in this House should be seen to be behind the Tánaiste in what he is trying to achieve.
I would like to ask the Leader of the House to make time available tomorrow for the beginning of a debate on Northern Ireland. In the past when we have asked for these debates we have been told that things might be said which could cause problems, or that there was nothing to report. It is wrong that the one topic the whole country is discussing and which concerns the entire country should not be on the agenda of this House. I am asking for an open-ended debate tomorrow. We should have the Northern Ireland question on the Order Paper, on the agenda, every day so that people can discuss what is happening and make their contributions. We saw here last week when the matter was discussed that there was a high level of responsibility and a deep sense of concern and commitment. This House should be afforded the opportunity of discussing the ongoing situation in Northern Ireland. It is important that this, as one of the two sovereign Houses of Parliament, should have a central role and should not abdicate this role to the airwaves, the media and all the discussions around the country. I would ask the Leader of the House, therefore, to begin an open-ended debate tomorrow on Northern Ireland so that we can resume at any stage as we strive to find the solution we all so dearly desire.
Even though my inclination is to join with what Senator Manning has said about offering our condolences to the families of victims in the North, I hesitate to start a roundrobin in the Chamber. Our view is conveyed by the House and everybody would want to be part of it.
The call was made last week on both sides of the House to the Leader, from Senator McGowan on the Government side and from Senator Manning, myself and many others on this side, for a debate on Northern Ireland. No one could be anything but supportive of a debate at this time.
As people are congratulating the input made by various people, I want to go on the record — and I am not trying to enter any note of controversy on this — and say that I have watched a politician in the North for many years who has put his total reputation on the line on this. From a personal point of view I would congratulate John Hume on the initiative he has taken which led to the development of various initiatives from both Governments. I wish them well. I recognise, however, the contribution that has been made by him over the last 24 years and in particular over the last difficult number of months. I am not making a judgment on what has resulted from his negotiations. He exercised a judgment with which people may agree or disagree, but at the end of the day we would all agree that he has put himself on the line to try to do the best he could. I will not abuse my position by going any further, a Chathaoirligh. I recognise I have gone beyond that point at this stage.
Over the last number of weeks I have raised with the Leader the provision of a list of the legislation which it is proposed to initiate in this House. Last week he gave me a guarantee that it would be available this week. I recognise the good intentions of the Leader in this matter but I also recognise that unless there is constant pressure kept on Government Departments and Ministers we will not get an answer to this question. In the interests of Members preparing for debates on legislation we must take strong action on this side of the House and insist we have some indication — I am not talking about dates — of the list of legislation to be initiated in this House during this term. It is now the beginning of November, we have been seeking this for the last four weeks and I ask that it be made available as soon as possible.
I remind the Leader there was a consensus in the House that the marine, its development and industry resulting from such development should be discussed. Due to pressures of time I do not expect such a discussion this week. This was perhaps subsumed by another proposal that the National Development Plan be discussed in sections. It would make sense if the plan was discussed over a period of weeks, certain sections being taken each week, to allow people make an input. Each debate would be a new one, thus people would not be constrained from contributing to a number of aspects of the plan. I ask the Leader to respond to these points.
I join with Senators Manning and O'Toole in expressing our sysmpathy. I share the view that we should not, week in and week out, make such denunciations. Nevertheless, the events of the past week make it necessary to pass some comment. Greysteel, Eglinton and Campsie are places I know well and I know the people in those areas. I was very moved yesterday by the silent, dignified way in which they bore their grief and the responsible attitude of their civic leaders.
As I remarked last week, we need to do more than express our sympathy on a ritual basis. The time has come to have a debate on the matter. Senator Wilson has been calling for this for some time and I join with him and Senator Manning in this request. There is a responsibility on us to examine every possibility to advance constitutional politics within Ireland and within these islands and to contribute in whatever way we can to ending the unceasing cycle of violence into which we seem to have descended. By responsible and restrained debate, as we have had in this House in the past, there is a possibility of creating the circumstances for such an advancement. For this reason I recommend very strongly to the Leader that he make time available at the earliest possible opportunity for a debate on the overall situation in Northern Ireland.
I also support Senator O'Toole's call for a detailed breakdown of the legislation the Leader expects to bring before us during this session. Also, I re-emphasise the point made that the Private Members' Time discussion last week on the marine was very limited in its scope and there was far more we could have discussed. We need time to discuss that matter further. I am flexible as to whether this should be in the context of a detailed debate on each section of the National Development Plan or a special debate on the marine but I believe we should return to this issue.
May I inquire of the Leader whether it is the Government's intention to introduce tropical or subtropical plants into the House? We seem to be preparing for those types of exotic plants to arrive in our midst.
Once again we have had a dreadful week in Northern Ireland. I agree we should extend sympathy. Sympathy is not enough, nevertheless it is right that it should be expressed. We must talk seriously about Northern Ireland in this House. I am very impressed by the Tánaiste's six-point statement of last week and I thank him for it. I see it as a sea change in Government policy and as the most generous and open-handed offer, for want of a better word, the Irish Government has made in decades in relation to the problem that is Northern Ireland. Within my limited sphere I will try to encourage all of the parties in Northern Ireland to listen to and act on the Tánaiste's six points.
I join with Senator Manning and other Senators who have asked for a debate on Northern Ireland. Nobody can say enough about the appalling tragedies that have occured there and the disgust felt by people throughout the island at recent events.
At the weekend the Government made an announcement which fundamentally changes the cornerstone for economic development in the mid-west and west regions. This was the renegotiation of the bilateral agreement with the United States of America. In doing so it has removed the transatlantic status from Shannon Airport. The matter is so serious and fundamental that I ask the Leader to arrange time for a debate on it this week. It is seen in the mid-west and west as a very serious matter affecting future development.
Senator Manning's remarks deserve a very positive response from the Government side of the House. I agree with what he said in relation to a debate on Northern Ireland which should be held, if not tomorrow, at the earliest possible opportunity. Senator O'Toole is correct in saying we should not have ritualistic denunciations. A bottom line of everybody in this House is that we are against killing, regardless of who is doing the killing and the side of the divide from which they come and whether they wear uniforms of any hue. Senator Wilson's view that a debate in this House has a positive effect on people in Northern Ireland should be taken aboard. This is not the House for partisan statements on Northern Ireland. There should be an immediate response to the remarks made by Senator Manning and others in relation to such a debate which, given the way this House views Northern Ireland and the chaos and havoc there, could do nothing but good.
I join in conveying condolences to the families of the victims of violence in Northern Ireland. It is hard to believe it is happening in Ireland. Day after day we see the remains of innocent victims of the violence being carried to their resting places. It is an appalling situation. There appears to be a clearing of the air. There is less ambiguity and ambivalence on all sides than there was previously. This is welcome. It is important to have a debate on Northern Ireland so there will be no ambiguity and ambivalence and the attention can focus on policy regarding the future of Northern Ireland. It is welcome that both Governments are taking this matter seriously with a view to establishing fora on which the various bodies will have representation. It is vitally important and urgent. There has been much debate in the media which people are finding it difficult to follow. I think it is as matter for Parliament to establish quite clearly its position on the issue of Northern Ireland.
On behalf of the Labour group I would like to convey our sympathy to the relatives of those who died in Greysteel and in other incidents over the past week. I take the point made by Senators O'Toole and Magner and others that we should not appear to be giving ritualistic votes of sympathy. At the same time, Senator Wilson has made the point that genuine expressions of sympathy from all sides of the House have an effect and are received with understanding in the North. I would like to join with the votes of sympathy and support the views expressed that we should have a debate as soon as possible on Northern Ireland. We have always been restrained and responsible in debating Northern Ireland and there is a great deal of knowledge about the issue in this House. I believe that what Senator Wilson has said is true, that the six points put forward by the Tánaiste give scope for real progress in the negotiations between the two Governments and with the various constitutional parties. I support the view that we should hold a debate as soon as possible on Northern Ireland.
I support the call for a debate on the North of Ireland. I am one of those who have consistently so called and I was not happy at the attempt to be fobbed off with the second part of the debate on the Opsahl Report. That did not constitute a full debate as far as I was concerned. It is important that we have a full debate involving all the issues and all the Members of the House.
I would like to add one thing to what has been said. I have no difficulty in agreeing with what everybody else has said but reference has been made to a sea change which has taken place in the Government's thinking. We should be clear that a sea change has also taken place in Republican thinking. That is the most important and significant element in the process which has taken place over the last few weeks. Unfortunately, that sea change in their thinking has not been matched by a sea change in their actions. However, it certainly appears to me to provide a moment of convergence between these disparate parties and with the initiative taken by the Tánaiste, perhaps we can move towards peace. From everything I have heard over the last couple of days particularly, the people in both communities in the North have their minds focused on peace in a way which never happened before. I would welcome an opportunity to contribute to this debate, as I think we all would.
I also support what my colleague, Senator O'Toole, said, and I know the difficulties of the Leader of the House with regard to the legislative programme. Somebody mentioned the Christmas session. In a way it is rather like Christmas shopping — people leave it until the last minute. We all know that it is not the Leader's fault, but it would be such a relief if we could avoid this awful rush at the last minute to get things through so that we can take the Christmas break.
Finally, are there any plans on the Government side to have a debate on the increasing problem of drugs in the inner city of Dublin? I presume it is a similar situation in other areas. I anticipate the Leader's response. I know that I have the right to put down a motion on this, but I feel that it would perhaps be taken in a broader context and have more weight if the Government put one down. In anticipation of the Government's taking this issue as seriously as I think we all do, I will not at the moment put down a motion because I would prefer if one came from the Government. It would make it easier to take it earlier. I would be grateful if the Leader could give an indication that this problem will be addressed by this House before Christmas.
I am not sure if Senator Norris could read my mind but that is also the reason I wish to speak. I support the call for a debate on Northern Ireland but there is a huge problem in our midst which is claiming as many, if not more, lives — the huge drug problem in Dublin. I requested earlier this year that the Leader would give time to a debate on this and I was assured that this would be done before the summer recess. This did not happen. I feel strongly that while this House remains silent on this issue and calls for debates on other issues — which I accept are important, such as marine policy, the Common Agricultural Policy and the country enterprise boards — we are losing touch with the reality of life outside this Chamber. I ask the Leader urgently to arrange for a debate on the problem of drug abuse.
I too would like to join with the votes of sympathy to all sides in Northern Ireland. Everybody in this House would welcome a debate on Northern Ireland. I would like to put a question to the Minister for the Environment, through the Leader of the House. The Comptroller and Auditor General's report was published recently and shows clearly where the national lottery funds have been disbursed. The Minister for the Environment made an announcement that those national lottery funds would be disbursed through the local authorities. Will the Leader ask the Minister when he intends to take the decision to disburse the national lottery funds through the local authorities?
I would also like to ask him in relation to the Mayo West by-election and the Dublin by-election when he intends to——
I am sure that the Leader cannot reply to that question.
I would also like to ask the Leader if the Minister for the Environment intends to go ahead with the local elections in 1994. He should make an announcement.
That is not appropriate to today's Order of Business.
I support the request for a debate on Northern Ireland. Many people felt that because of the sensitivity of the situation heretofore we could not express fully our views on it but I think the situation has now changed with the recent developments, especially the developments last week in the Dáil. I support the request for a debate on the drugs problem in Dublin. The Women's Rights Committee yesterday visited Mountjoy Prison. Eighty per cent of the women in that prison have severe drug problems and 80 per cent are from Dublin. We would like a full debate on that. I ask the Leader of the House to indicate if he will allow time next week for the Second Stage debate on the Refugee Protection (No. 2) Bill, which Fine Gael has put on the Order Paper.
As you are aware, a Chathaoirligh, there are many excellent and worthy charities which collect money for worthy purposes. You will probably have seen the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General which states that there are approximately 6,000 charities collecting approximately £130 million. We should discuss the report in that it outlines that much of these moneys which are being collected are not being properly supervised and there is no monitoring of these bodies. It is important that people who are donating money be satisfied that the charities to which they are donating are worthy and properly supervised. For that reason, I would like two hours for a special debate as soon as possible.
One can only be impressed by the condolences being expressed to all the people in the North on their losses. If we are to have a discussion, it is important that the Seanad show example by ensuring that we all have the same line of thinking. It is important that we would all be seen to be positive. We have an opportunity in the Seanad to show that we have one line of policy in the Upper House and in the country, otherwise we will have a debate which will end up saying nothing. We have listened to Senator Wilson and others speaking. The sad happenings over the past two weeks in the North deserve serious discussion by this House.
I join in the expression of sympathy to those bereaved in the past two weeks in Northern Ireland and I also support the call for a debate in this House on Northern Ireland at the earliest possible date. Tragic scenes are shown on the television each evening. We must support the Government in its efforts to achieve peace. A debate in this House would help the Government to achieve this outcome.
On behalf of the House and my own party I extend our sympathy to the families who have suffered over the weekend. In regard to Northern Ireland, the Government has shown its willingness to allow a debate in this House. I am sure the Taoiseach and the Tanáiste would welcome an opportunity to come into the House to debate the speech made last week by the Tanáiste and, in particular, his six principles which we hope will lead to peace. As soon as the Tanáiste returns, I hope I will be able to discuss a date for a debate on Northern Ireland and I will then report back to the House.
In reply to Senator O'Toole's question, I have asked about legislation and I hope to have a more detailed report in the near future. The Senator is aware that there are 38 Bills to be initiated. It may be possible to take the Adoptive Leave Bill next week if the Minister is available. I hope to give the Senator a more detailed response shortly. Many pieces of legislation are ready and they will come to this House in the near future. I try to give all Senators an opportunity to prepare for the introduction of Bills.
I agreed to a debate on the marine last week. A suggestion was made that the National Development Plan should be debated under different subheadings. In the next couple of weeks operational programmes will be put together for each subhead. At that stage it would be appropriate for the House to discuss the operational programme under subheads such as tourism, natural resources and so on.
The Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications, Deputy Cowen, has announced a bilateral agreement with the US. The Whips will agree that when the issue of Aer Lingus has been dealt with, the House will have an opportunity to discuss the situation.
Senator McGennis stated that she has been asking for a debate on drug-related issues in Dublin city and throughout the country. Senator Norris also made this point. I have asked the Minister about this and I hope that the debate will be in Government time and that explanations will be given about the measures taken to combat the problem.
Order of Business agreed to.