Today's Order of Business is Item 1, the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill, 1993, Second Stage, which will be taken from now until 6 p.m. and from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. It is suggested that each Member will have 20 minutes to speak on that Bill. Item 37 will be taken between 6 p.m. and 8 p.m.
Order of Business.
I move an amendment to the Order of Business:
"That statements on GATT be inserted before Item 1."
This is a very critical situation. There has been too much bureaucratic interference in relation to this country. I ask the Leader of the House to make time available at an appropriately early stage for an update on the talks between the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister.
Finally could we have delivered to the Whips no later than tomorrow a full list of all Bills the Leader proposes to have debated this side of Christmas? Last week there was last minute switching of business and to be fair to Members at this particularly busy time of year, we would like a full list of all legislation to be discussed between now and the recess.
It is important that Members note that Standing Orders do not require the bells to ring to initiate the business of democracy. At 2.30 p.m. today, without the bells, only a few Members were in the Chamber. Like the Children of Lir, the other Members did not take their seats until the bells rang. As was pointed out to the people who were here, a quorum is all that is required. I mention this in case it raises difficulty at any other stage. Even without electricity and bells, the business of democracy can continue.
I remind the Leader of the House of an issue I raised the week before last regarding the urgent need for a debate on educational matters. The Leader indicated that he would be prepared to facilitate such a debate. I would be happy if he gives a commitment that this will be taken at the first opportunity after the recess. The international evidence brought forward today, showing the dire consequences of under funding of primary education and its effect on unemployment and on the development of this country, needs to be addressed in this House.
Senator, you are making a speech.
As I have given up on getting the detailed list of legislation for this session, I want to be the first to ask for the list of legislation for next session. Then we could probably adopt an orderly approach.
I call on the Leader of the House to initiate a debate on the drugs problem as soon as possible. I mentioned this about two weeks ago. The seriousness of the situation, given the amount of drugs that have been found recently, demands that it should be debated. This issue is relevant not only to Dublin but to the rest of the country, including areas in County Donegal.
I too call on the Leader to make time available for a debate on GATT either this evening or tomorrow. It is very important to this country to have a fair and balanced agreement. The French have obviously been able to organise that for themselves and it is vitally important to our economy — for everybody's sake and not just the farmers' — that a debate on this issue takes place here. This debate is going on everywhere except in the Houses of the Oireachtas and we have an important role to play.
I support my colleague, Senator Maloney's request for a debate on the serious problem of drugs in this country. I am sure that Senator Maloney is as concerned as I, because there is a very difficult situation in the regional college in Letterkenny where there is open trafficking of drugs.
You are making a speech, Senator.
I will not make a speech.
You are heading that way I am afraid.
If this is happening in all the colleges——
A question to the Leader.
I support Senator Maloney. I ask the Leader of the House to arrange a debate at an early date on the retail pricing of food. This should not be a discussion on GATT. There are serious discrepancies in food prices. For example, two litres of milk in this city cost 60p——
The Senator is making a Second Stage speech. He has made his point to the Leader of the House.
I do not know whether the Leader has heard my point.
The Leader is listening, I am sure he has heard the Senator's point.
This is an ideal time to debate food prices. There is a serious difference in the price of milk in various areas.
I support Senator Cosgrave's amendment to the Order of Business. The situation in relation to GATT is important. Based on figures available, the Government's action in this regard is the greatest sell-out of a vital national interest. The Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Walsh, has made many misleading statements and he cannot be trusted.
The Senator is making a speech.
If people want to clear farmers from the west of Ireland, they can allow these proposals to go through. I support Senator Cosgrave's amendment and I ask the Leader to bring the Minister to the House as soon as possible. If the Minister is not available, we should discuss these proposals. Perhaps the Minister might get the message that France and all the other countries, except Ireland, have got what they want.
Mr. Naughten
I support Senator Cosgrave's and Senator D'Arcy's requests for an immediate discussion on the important debate which is taking place on the GATT negotiations. This House must have an opportunity to discuss the future of the GATT negotiations and how they will affect our farming community and the rural population. I appeal to the Leader of the House to provide time for such a discussion.
I support my colleagues, Senator McGowan and Senator Maloney. We should discuss the drugs problem as soon as possible.
I asked the Leader before and I will ask him again for a debate, if not in this session, then in the next, on the enlargement of the European Union because this will profoundly affect this country in the coming years.
I also notice the port light is lit, but the bow and starboard chandeliers require new bulbs. In this season when everything it lit up, perhaps they could be too.
That is not a matter for the Order of Business.
I call for a debate on the National Development Plan. We now know the cuts being made in the Department of the Environment will affect the regional and county road structure.
I support Senator Cosgrave's amendment to the Order of Business. If this GATT deal goes through our last bastion of hope, our farmers in the west will be annihilated in one fell swoop.
I support Senator O'Toole's call for a debate on education. This debate should include a discussion on the school transport system which is almost in a shambles.
I support my colleagues, Senator Maloney, Senator McGowan and Senator Ormonde, in calling for a debate on the drugs problem following another seizure of drugs worth over £10 million in west Cork over the last few weeks. This highlights the problem of the supply of drugs coming into the country at the moment.
Following our most recent debate on Northern Ireland, it is appropriate that a message should go out from this House that not only do we condemn violence of any kind and from any source but we also condemn the tacit incitement to violence as enunciated by recent speeches in the Six Counties. The message has to go out that we support peace and that it is unacceptable to threaten a backlash and not to seek peace.
Wonders will never cease and Members of this House never cease to amaze me. The most important item that will affect Ireland and the people living here for the next 20, 30, 40 or 50 years——
You are making a speech, Senator Farrelly. The point has been well made.
——is the GATT agreement currently being negotiated. We have Members of the Government parties talking about a drug problem and seeking a debate on it. They all support the call for a debate on the drug problem. Everyone supports it. There is a serious drug problem in the State and the sooner we can have a debate on it the better, but today——
To the Leader of the House.
Regardless of the seriousness of the issue and the fact that we have had similar debates before — most recently last week — things have moved on. We have given away part of what the people of this country had and what the former EC Commissioner, Mr. MacSharry had——
You have gone overboard. You have made your point and now you are making a speech.
I ask the Leader of the House to allow a debate on the most important aspect of life and jobs in Ireland. I am asking the Leader to stand up and be counted in this House.
I support the call for a debate on drugs. A number of clinics in Dublin are currently providing methadone maintenance treatment for heroin addicts. Unfortunately, there is a waiting list at each clinic and this is totally unacceptable.
I would like to add my support to the proposal by Senator Cosgrave and Senator D'Arcy. The GATT proposals spell the end of rural Ireland as we have known it and place both Ireland and the EU in a serious situation. It amounts to the dismantling of the price support system. I also support my colleagues' request for a debate on the drugs problem. In fact, I will use the debate on the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill today to highlight that issue. I would ask Senators to use that opportunity to highlight the drug problem for the Minister for Justice because it is relevant to that Bill.
I wish to raise the matter, raised before in the Seanad, relating to Cooley Distilleries in County Louth. It is not in my constituency but I am raising this matter because it is of national importance. There is a need to examine our legislation in the area of competition law because this distillery may soon be taken over by Irish Distillers with a view to closing it down. If we are concerned about our indigenous industry we should re-examine the situation and prevent small business like that one being crushed by the big powers.
I was not going to suggest that we should have a debate on GATT but I would suggest that, in view of the rubbish we have listened to from the Fine Gael benches, we need a debate——
Do not create problems for us.
Come off it——
You may say a lot but——
(Interruptions.)
Senator Roche, without interruption.
I have spoken for less than 20 seconds and——
You invited problems for yourself and all of us.
The expression of an honestly held opinion should never be the issue of controversy. I ask the Leader whether he concedes we should have a debate on GATT so that truth and logic will reign on the issue. Recently Ireland became an observer member of the assembly of the Western European Union. Could we have time to debate the implications of what will happen from 1996 onward in relation to the Western European Union, the defence of Europe and the continuing way we define our neutrality in that context?
I ask the Leader for an early debate on decentralisation. There are problems arising all over the country, not in terms of the Government's wish and will to implement decentralisation but in relation to civil servants who do not want to move to the country. The issue is now urgent.
We should send our compliments to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy Walsh, on the excellent job he has done in the GATT negotiations.
(Interruptions.)
It is easy to see why Fine Gael are going down the tubes. They are not listening to the ICMSA or the ICOS. They are not listening to anybody.
Senator Lanigan, please put your question to the Leader.
What is good for Fine Gael is not good for Ireland. I also ask for an early debate on class sizes, at primary and secondary schools.
I disagree fundamentally with Senator Lanigan when he speaks about parties going down the tubes. We have all been in those tubes from time to time. It was not pleasant but we all came back. It is in the interests of democracy that it happens to all parties. May I break the rules, a Chathaoirligh, by saluting on old colleague of ours, Andy O'Brien, who is in the Visitors Gallery and wish him a happy Christmas?
You are breaking the rules but the Clerk says it is all right.
I ask the Leader to expedite the debate on GATT. The best advice we have received so far has come from somebody who commanded enormous respect and affection throughout the country, that is, is Mr. Peter Sutherland, a former Attorney General and member of Fine Gael. He is saying the GATT agreement should be signed, and signed now.
(Interruptions.)
Senator Farrelly, you are going overboard. Return to your seat.
Senator Belton is threatening me.
Senator Wilson is on his feet. Please show him some courtesy.
I have listened to people talking about the importance of debates about the GATT and drugs and there is no doubt these issues are important. However, I remind the Leader that last night a man was shot dead in Belfast and two men were shot the previous night, merely because they were Catholics. It is important that this House considers urgently the question of peace in Northern Ireland and what it might do to help to achieve it.
May I put on the record the legislation with which we intend to deal between now and Wednesday week: the Local Government (Dublin) Bill, the Social Welfare (No. 2) Bill, the Irish Film Board (Amendment) Bill, the Diplomatic Officers Bill, the Criminal Procedure Bill, the Greyhound Industry (Amendment) Bill, a Bill relating to Aer Lingus, and the Second Stage of the Road Traffic Bill. There may be other Bills.
You will be sitting Christmas Day.
St. Stephen's Day as well.
It is the intention of the Whips that we sit possibly four days next week and on Tuesday and Wednesday of Christmas week, as I mentioned before. We will do our best to ensure that all Senators are kept as informed as possible.
In regard to GATT, I am aware of its importance and it is important to put on record that we have at all stages accommodated calls for a debate on GATT; we had a day's debate last week and the previous week. I would remind Senators that the full time provided last week for the debate on GATT was not availed of.
That was extended time.
Senators can be assured that both I and the Chief Whip will be in touch with the Minister, Deputy Walsh, to ascertain his views and to see when is the appropriate time for further statements and comment on GATT.
With regard to Senator Wilson's comments, the record of the House on Northern Ireland affairs has been one of trying to keep the Members up to date and giving them every opportunity to debate Northern Ireland. The commitment I gave last week stands — at the appropriate time, perhaps next week or the week after, we may have an opportunity before we break for Christmas to debate Northern Ireland.
I have already mentioned the legislative programme. With regard to education, I give Senator O'Toole a commitment that we will debate education in the first part of the new session. With regard to the important issue raised by several Senators today — the drugs problems — both today's Bill — the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill — and the Bill relating to the confiscation of criminal proceeds provide an ideal opportunity for Senators to give their views on the effect drugs have on society. That Bill will be in the House soon.
Senator McGowan raised the issue of the difference in retail prices in various areas. We may get a chance to debate this topic in the New Year. I tie that in with Senator Gallagher's comments on competition laws and legislation with regard to the enlargement of the European Union. We may also debate these subjects in the early part of the New Year. Many other issues were mentioned today to which we can return.
On a point of order——
The Leader has replied but the Senator may speak on a point of order.
I want to correct what was said by the Leader of the House. The time allocated in the last debate——
That is not a point of order.
It was a point of correction.
Senator Cosgrave has moved an amendment to the Order of Business: "That statements on GATT be inserted before Item 1." Is the amendment being pressed?
Senator Cosgrave
Yes.
The question is: "That the amendment be made".
Amendment put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 18; Níl, 25.
Tá
- Belton, Louis J.
- Burke, Paddy.
- Cosgrave, Liam.
- Cotter, Bill.
- Cregan, Denis (Dino).
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Farrelly, John V.
- Henry, Mary.
- Honan, Cathy.
- Howard, Michael.
- McDonagh, Jarlath.
- Naughten, Liam.
- Neville, Daniel.
- Quinn, Feargal.
- Ross, Shane P.N.
- Sherlock, Joe.
- Wilson, Gordon.
Níl
- Bohan, Eddie.
- Byrne, Seán.
- Cashin, Bill.
- Crowley, Brian.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Farrell, Willie.
- Finneran, Michael.
- Gallagher, Ann.
- Hillery, Brian.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Kiely, Dan.
- Kiely, Rory.
- Lanigan, Mick.
- Lydon, Don.
- McGowan, Paddy.
- Magner, Pat.
- Maloney, Sean.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- Mullooly, Brian.
- Ormonde, Ann.
- Roche, Dick.
- Townsend, Jim.
- Wall, Jack.
- Wright, G. V.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Cosgrave and Burke; Níl, Senators Mullooly and Magner.
Amendment declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.