East Timor Motion.

Mr. Dardis

I move:

That Seanad Éireann endorses the declaration made in Lisbon at the Inter-Parliamentary Conference on East Timor; and calls on the Irish Government to take all necessary steps to ensure the implementation of the declaration in order to secure freedom and the right to self-determination for the people of East Timor.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Burton, and thank her for her attendance. I thank the Leader for providing time for this motion, as I realise the schedule for the remainder of the session is crowded, and for allowing the debate in the form of a motion rather than statements.

The background to the motion is unusual. It is signed by all parties in House and by the Independent Senators. This is quite unusual and is an indication of the seriousness with which this matter is viewed. The motion arises from the Interparliamentary Conference on East Timor which took place in Lisbon from 31 May to 2 June. All the parties in the Dáil and Seanad were represented there.

A declaration was adopted at the conference supported by Members of Parliament from more than 30 countries from every continent. It is important that individual parliaments adopt and support the Lisbon Declaration on East Timor and that is why this motion has been tabled. The authority for the motion will be greatly strengthened by unanimous support from Seanad Éireann.

It is important to read the declaration which was adopted at Lisbon as it was amended. It was adopted by a general assembly of the conference on Saturday morning in the parliament chamber. The declaration states by way of introduction that the Lisbon international parliamentary conference was primarily aimed at helping the people of East Timor to win their rightful freedom. Following a brief outline of the recent historical background to the present plight of the people of East Timor, it pointed out the illegal annexation of East Timor by Indonesia, the genocide policy which has caused the deaths of more than 200,000 people and the refusal of Indonesia to abide by UN resolutions. The declaration, with the amendments, states:

In view of the existing situation, the participants in the Lisbon international parliamentary conference:

1. Exhort the Republic of Indonesia to abide by the UN resolutions on East Timor and comply with the international norms of human rights and international law;

2. Call on the United Nations to ensure the respect for human rights in East Timor;

3. Urge the UN and all Governments and Parliaments of the countries which have been selling arms to Indonesia to take measures aimed at enforcing an embargo to such trade condemned by the European Parliament and by the international community;

4. Demand the immediate releases of Xanana Gusmao and all Timorese political prisoners held in custody in Indonesia and East Timor;

5. Urge the United Nations' member states, namely the powers with an influence in the area, to cooperate in the search for an internationally acceptable solution that enables the East Timorese people to exercise their inalienable right to self-determination;

6. Request the United Nations to proclaim the 7th day of December as the international day of East Timor;

7. Congratulate the people of East Timor on their struggle for freedom and their preservation of their centuries old identity.

8. Appeal to Parliaments in the international community to show solidarity with East Timor [which was an amendment from Brazil].

A 23 point action plan on East Timor was included in the formal declaration. This plan was drawn up by the chairman of the executive committee of the International Commission of Jurists, Justice Kirby, who is a member of the Australian Supreme Court. It also included a resolution from Lord Avebury of England, one of the founding members of the Parliamentarians for East Timor group.

There is not enough time this afternoon to go through that plan in detail, but several aspects must be highlighted. Justice Kirby proposed that parliamentary resolutions be adopted, calling for the exercise of the right to self-determination by the people of East Timor. We are seeking to do this today and to endorse the Lisbon Declaration. As parliamentarians we have also been asked to raise the issue of the rights of the people of East Timor in correspondence and at meetings with representatives of western and other countries which are major investors in Indonesia. The economic aspect is most important.

Justice Kirby made a number of other prominent proposals in his action plan and I wish to draw the House's attention to a number of them. One proposal requests the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights to visit East Timor and to report to the Secretary General, the Commission on Human Rights and the international community on the compliance by Indonesia with (a) the report of the Special Rapporteur on Summary Executions; (b) the reported abuses of fundamental human rights; and (c) the conformity of Indonesia with the duty to accord to the people of East Timor the right to self-determination accorded to them by the international community.

Additional elements are included in the 23 point plan. There is a proposal regarding an embargo on the sale of arms to Indonesia. It is also proposed that there would be help from UNICEF and the Red Cross for the people of East Timor; that the issue of East Timor would be raised in the European Union and the European Parliament; that we would consider the use of the convention on genocide in respect of alleged cases of genocide by Indonesia and its military forces and officials on East Timor; and that we should call on the Indonesian Government and Parliament to respect rights of Members of that Parliament so that they can speak freely. A particular case in this regard is referred to in the declaration.

Several of these points were covered when I and other Members of different Parliaments met the Secretary General of the United Nations in February 1994. We then called for the withdrawal of Indonesian troops from East Timor and the holding of a referendum on self-determination for East Timor under strict international supervision. Pending that referendum, we urge the Secretary General to open an office in East Timor to oversee its demilitarisation, provide humanitarian aid and monitor human rights.

In an impressive message to the Lisbon conference, the imprisoned East Timorese leader, Mr. Xanana Gusmao, said that a referendum is a target to be aimed for and that there can be no genuine solution in East Timor if it is not by the freely expressed will of the people of that country. He said that a referendum must be supervised by the United Nations, given that the Indonesian regime clearly fails to understand the true meaning of democracy in its universal sense. In his statement, he also called for the dismantling of the secret police apparatus and a withdrawal of Indonesian armed forces.

I regret that, this afternoon, time prevents me from making more detailed reference to the 20 years of suffering and oppression which have taken place in East Timor and what the East Timorese people have had to go through but I am sure other speakers will be able to go into that aspect in more detail. The country was invaded, as we all know, on a pretext in 1975 and for the intervening 20 years the people have had a lonely struggle to establish their rights. We have to salute, as we have in the past, the bravery of individual journalists, some of whom have given their lives — in particular five Australians — for establishing beyond any doubt what was and is taking place in East Timor. There was definitely a campaign to try and convince us that what was happening there was not taking place. We also have to salute Bishop Belo, Mr. Xanana Gusmao and the Timorese people for refusing to be silenced in the face of torture and death.

I would like to thank the Portuguese Government and the chairman of the Portuguese Parliament's select committee, Mr. Fernando Amaral, for monitoring the situation in East Timor and for keeping the problem to the forefront of international consciousness by organising the Lisbon conference. The Portuguese Minister — I have had problems trying to pronounce his name — Mr. José Manuel Durao Barroso, has acknowledged the mistakes and omissions of the Portuguese colonial past. He stated in Lisbon that Portugal has no sovereignty or other claim to the East Timor territory; that Portugal's objective is to complete the colonisation through an act of self-determination in East Timor validated by the UN; and he stressed that Portugal would accept whatever solution is freely chosen by the East Timorese people. That position is to be commended.

Finally, I hope that the adoption of this resolution this afternoon — if it is adopted — can help contribute to the peaceful solution of the problem in East Timor and I ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Government to show that they are serious about East Timor and to continue to exert international pressure to allow the people of East Timor to live in freedom and in peace.

Mr. Norris

Since my colleague, Senator Dardis, did not put the full declaration on the record, I would like to take the time to read to quickly read the full text of the declaration. What I regard as the preamble has already been put on the record. The reason I want to put the actual plan on the record in detail is that a number of us were quite frustrated by the attitude of the Portuguese authorities, well intentioned as they were, because they had already pre-packaged and prepared their position and we were there almost as a cosmetic decoration. Without the presence of the representatives from this House, the Portuguese would have had their way and the teeth which are clearly contained in the action plan would never have seen that light of day. I would like to salute in particular the work of Senator Taylor-Quinn, who forcibly intervened.

Mr. Lydon

As usual.

Mr. Norris

She was supported by me. It was important that the Irish people were there, in particular the representation from this House. I will read the action plan into the record quickly. It was important because the platform party wanted to get a get a bland neutral exhortatory piece of diplomatic language on the record but the delegates from 32 countries unanimously insisted that teeth be put into it. The action plan states:

1. Propose Parliamentary resolutions calling for the exercise of the right of self-determination by the people of East Timor and related action;

2. Propose Parliamentary missions to visit Indonesia and East Timor in order to inspect and report upon the position of human rights, the rule of laws and the demand for self-determination by the people of East Timor;

3. Establish Parliamentary Committees to receive reports and focus attention upon the position of East Timor in International Law and in respect for human rights;

4. Raise the issue of East Timor in Parliamentary Committees of Amnesty International supporters; circulate amongst Parliamentarians the reports (or summaries of the reports) of Amnesty International, the International Commission of Jurists, the International Platform of Jurists for East Timor and other human rights NGOs concerned with East Timor;

5. Raise the issue of the rights of the people of East Timor in correspondence, and at meetings, with the representatives of the western and other countries which are the major investors in Indonesia;

6. Make contact with the Parliamentary groups concerned with the rights of the people of Tibet, the Kurds, Western Sahara and other peoples denied their right to self-determination. Make common cause with such groups and find and express the common principles of International Law and justice raised by cases with issues similar to those raised by the case of East Timor;

Action within the United Nations

7. Inform the Secretary-General of the United Nations of the initiatives of Parliamentarians, Parliaments and Parliamentary Committees;

8. Request the Secretary-General of the United Nations to call on the Government of Indonesia to comply with the recommendations of the Special Rapporteur on Summary Executions which have so far been ignored;

9. Request the Commission on Human Rights to call on the Government of Indonesia to report to the Commission on Indonesia's compliance with the recommendations of the Special Rapporteur;

10. Request the High Commissioner for Human Rights of the United Nations to visit East Timor and to report to the Secretary-General, the Commission on Human Rights and the International Community upon the compliance by Indonesia with:

*The report of the Special Rapporteur on Summary Executions, etc.;

*The reported abuses of fundamental human rights; and

*The conformity of Indonesia with the duty to accord to the people of East Timor the right to self-determination accorded to them by International Law.

Other Action

11. Introduce motions or legislation on a selective arms embargo, or to forbid the sale of arms to countries which offend International Law on human rights and on the right to self-determination of peoples, including Indonesia in respect of East Timor;

12. Establish an information exchange to distribute Parliamentary resolutions in parliaments concerned;

I feel particularly strong on that one because it was my contribution to get that included. The information exchange is vitally important. The action plan continues:

13. Establish a media exchange to provide local media with material collected internationally, to support the struggle of the people of East Timor and to help explain that struggle, and the right of the people of East Timor, to the people of the democracies which will help alter government and private sector inaction over East Timor;

14. Establish a central point for gathering sound, confirmed data on the current situation in East Timor as a basis for practical action in the Parliaments of democracies;

15. Make representations to the International Committee of the Red Cross and UNICEF to increase their presence in, and activities for, East Timor and its people;

16. Consider actions which will persuade democratic Governments to recognise the freedom movements in East Timor as the true representation of the people of East Timor;

17. Urge Parliamentarians to join the organisation "Parliamentarians for East Timor" (PET) and encourage its institutional support for the rights of the people of East Timor and for future meetings of Parliamentarians who support the rights of the people of East Timor;

18. Establish attention to the role of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (World Bank) in the Indonesian economy and ... its role in East Timor;

19. Encourage the European Parliaments, in particular, to raise issues of East Timor in the organs of the European Union and in the European Parliament and especially to persuade the Government and the Parliament of the Netherlands to embrace the cause of the rights of the people of East Timor to self-determination and to the respect for their individual human rights.

20. Consider use of the Convention on Genocide in respect of alleged cases of genocide by Indonesia and its military forces and officials in East Timor. Encourage and organise the collection of depositions, including from refugees from East Timor, on instances on genocide and on cases of violations of fundamental human rights. Press for the establishment of an International Penal Tribunal or a Special Penal Tribunal for East Timor and encourage steps to gather the evidence for use by such tribunals once established;

Here, I want to break from reading to make an important point and a specific clear determined call to the Government for action on this issue. Among the representation at that meeting was not just Mr. Justice Kirby, who is an extremely distinguished judge internationally, but a woman judge from Sweden. She put this case strongly and clearly. It was indicated in the discussion that Ireland could act on this matter. As a result of that discussion another judge, an American, offered the services of his law firm free of charge to the Irish people in any international forum to establish just such a case against Indonesia on the question of genocide. If the Minister and the Department of Foreign Affairs are serious about bringing people to book for the crime of genocide which we know has been committed, we must take seriously this recommendation which has been made to us in an international democratic parliamentary forum by three internationally renowned judges.

We have made our position clear as a matter of principle and are now in a position to act as a country having been offered the means with which to do it. Unlike the Shackleton Gardens it will not cost the taxpayer any money.

I will now resume reading from the statement:

21. Distribute the addresses and fax contacts of participants in the conference to retain a network of the parliamentarians and other persons dedicated to law and justice in East Timor which will endure after the meeting has concluded.

22. Call on the Indonesian Government and Parliament in Indonesia and elsewhere to respect the rights of members of the Indonesian Parliament to speak freely in the cause of human rights in Indonesia, and in favour of the rights of the people of East Timor to self-determination and to respect for their individual human rights.

There was one person in addition to Xanana Gusmáo who was missing from that conference. He was a man for whom we must all have the greatest respect, an Indonesian Member of Parliament who was detained in Indonesia for the crime of speaking out in a relatively mild sense about the misdeeds of Indonesia in East Timor. These are the sort of matters we should be raising with the Indonesian Government.

I was revolted to read in The Irish Times that, according to a reporter there, the Minister for Tourism and Trade, Deputy Enda Kenny, apologised to Mr. Habiebie, the Indonesia Ambassador, for the temerity of myself and Mr. Tom Hyland — who is in the Public Gallery today representing the East Timor-Ireland Solidarity Campaign — and for the inconvenience we caused. I do not sustain that apology and in private discussions with the Minister I do not believe it was ever given. I do not believe for one second that Mr. Habiebie was telling the truth. I would not dishonour a decent man like the Minister by suggesting that he would proffer such an apology. If it was proffered it was done without the permission of this House or the consent of the people of Ireland and as far as I am concerned it is hereby withdrawn.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

Thanks.

Mr. Norris

I will resume reading from the statement:

23. Call on the Interparliamentary Union (IPU) to add the issues of East Timor to the active concerns of the IPU. [On the three occasions on which I have attended the IPU I have actually raised this issue].

24. Propose resolutions calling on the President and Government of Indonesia to release Xanana Gusmao from prison immediately and without preconditions.

I wish to add three other main points on the advice of the East Timor-Ireland Solidarity Campaign. We would like the Indonesian military to reduce its presence in East Timor. They are continuing to act both as a military presence and as death squads. This oppression is continuing at this very moment. While we were in Portugal we were made aware of a demonstration in Dili and the possibility of further reprisals against the civilian population; a United Nations humanitarian office to be established in East Timor that would report directly to the United Nations Secretary General, Dr. Boutros Boutros Ghali; and the Irish Ambassador to Australia and Indonesia should visit the East Timorese resistance leader, Mr. Xanana Gusmáo, who is currently in jail in Indonesia.

This a specific Irish political request I am making formally on the record of this House. I strongly request that this resolution should be passed in its entirety because there was an attempt to disengage the action plan from the Lisbon Declaration. The parliamentary conference, however, made it absolutely and unanimously clear that it would not suffer such disengagement. The text which I have laboriously read onto the record forms an active and indissoluble part of the Lisbon Declaration itself. As Irish people we can specifically direct the Irish Ambassador to Australia and Indonesia to take the required action.

I referred to the presence of Mr. Tom Hyland and I will not embarrass him by referring to his good works; I have done so before on the record of the House. I also salute the fact that we have with us in the Public Gallery a very distinguished journalist, Mr. Hugh O'Shaughnessy, formerly of The Observer and currently working with the BBC.

The kind of concerns we have are not just genocide, but also situations which parallel those in Tibet, for example. I argued strongly for the inclusion of a paragraph which referred to related issues. Just as in Tibet where the local population is being swamped as a matter of deliberate population policy by the Chinese authorities in Beijing, so on the small island of East Timor the 600,000 native inhabitants are being deliberately swamped by what is known as transmigration. This is not the transmigration of souls but the plantation of East Timor. In this country we have suffered from the evils of plantation. Some 400 or 500 years after the initial plantations occurred we are still dealing with the complex and tragic human repercussions of this brutal policy. We are in a position to insist that this policy should be stopped.

There are number of other small actions that we can take also. We have many travel agencies through which people book trips to ever more exotic countries. For example, many people choose Ball which is regarded as a paradise. However, I would like to remind the House that Bali is under the malign control of the dictatorship of Indonesia and that people frolicking along its beaches may well be frolicking over the buried corpses of the approximately 1 million Indonesian people who have been destroyed by that vicious and tyrannous regime.

Very often when we make this kind of case from the Independent or the Opposition benches — and I salute Senator Dardis for the work that he has done in this area — we are told, as I was told when I opposed the beef contract with Iraq, from the Government benches that what we are proposing might well be the moral line but could a small country like Ireland afford it? There was a rather wry smile on my face when it turned out that not only had we done the immoral thing by selling beef to the Iraqi Army so that they could pelt the bejasus out of the Kurds, but we were left with the bill because Saddam Hussein would not pay it.

My strong belief is that a small independent neutral country with a colonial history such as Ireland's can adopt a position of moral leadership and by so doing can act in its own long term interests. The dictatorship in Indonesia will not survive forever because you cannot trample on the rights of 200 million people indefinitely. There will be change in that regime which is not as stable as American foreign policy makers appear to think it is. It will be toppled and if any action of ours, any small impact of the words we speak in this House, can help to destabilise that regime, then I for one think it would be a good day's work; a kind of cleansing of the Augean stables on the Pacific rim.

It may well be in our long term interests to act humanely so that the incoming regime — be it in five, ten, 15 or 20 years — will recognise that the Irish people stood up for the rights of the oppressed. This may not be a particularly popular view and it may be regarded with cynicism by the machiavellian manipulators of the international political stage.

Six weeks ago at the COSAC meeting in Paris I raised the question of East Timor and listed the arms sales which the French Government still insist on making to the Indonesian Government. They do so despite the fact that, as they know perfectly well, the arms are used against a largely unarmed and defenceless civilian population. In my opinion, the sale of that equipment and as justification for it, the use of figures relating to employment is the same as if the firm of IG Farben had defended the manufacture of Zyklon B gas during the Second World War on the basis of the need to keep up the employment figures in Essen.

The response that I got from the then Foreign Minister, Monsieur Alain Juppe — who is now, I regret to say, the Prime Minister of France — was that, first the European Union had nothing to be ashamed of in its human rights record. I was relieved to hear that because there must be few international organisations that can make such an astonishing claim. His second comment, that the European Union is not a human rights organisation, was more worrying. That appears to be the depths of cynicism. It might not be primarily a human rights organisation but if we abandon an honourable position with regard to human rights — as the French, apparently, are quite prepared to do — we have sunk to the level of the beast that prowled Europe during the Second World War.

As politicians we should be ashamed to take such a line in light of the extraordinary courage not alone of the Indonesian Member of Parliament whose case I referred to earlier and whose name I have both forgotten and could not pronounce when I could remember it, but also of the many people in Indonesia who in circumstances of the greatest difficulty are struggling to establish civil rights both for themselves and for the people of East Timor. That shows remarkable and moving imagination.

It is not often that I find myself moved to compliment and congratulate a senior member of the Roman Catholic Hierarchy. However, Bishop Belo, who at first I think regarded his appointment in East Timor as something of a penance and who was seen as being from a rather conservative wing of the Church, has done remarkable work. That work has continued through to the last few weeks when an important series of meetings were held in Austria which led to the Schlaining Declaration. That meeting was particularly important because the representatives of two sides in East Timor met. The Indonesians have deliberately fostered a type of opposition which, in a quisling sense, appears for a variety of reasons to give some degree of support to Indonesia. The two sides have met. The presence of Ramos Horta, Foreign Minister designate of free East Timor, was very important in producing this document. The document was unanimously agreed. However, under pressure from Indonesia, the pro-Indonesian side is now attempting to renege on it.

In conclusion, I repeat my clear and specific call for action on the part of the Minister and the Department of Foreign Affairs, if what has been said is to mean anything. I remember Deputy Dick Spring, Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and a man of extraordinary political wisdom and tactical good sense, suggesting there might be a case for mounting sanctions against Indonesia at European Union level. That would ill consort with the toadying that Mr. Habiebie incorrectly suggested was taking place in Dublin the other week. In particular, I would like a clear answer to the suggestion made to the Irish people through the Portuguese conference that we as an independent neutral country should take up the offer of free legal assistance at the highest international level to mount the charge of genocide against the Government of Indonesia.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I am pleased that this motion is before the House and that we are discussing it within ten days of returning from an international parliamentary conference on East Timor in Lisbon. That conference was attended by parliamentarians from over 32 countries. The Irish delegation made its mark by insisting on the inclusion of the action plan drafted by the Australian delegation and chiefly by Justice Kirby from the appeal court in Sydney. That action plan, as Senator Norris said, put teeth into the declaration. I take this opportunity to thank Senator Norris for seconding a proposal I made to ensure that the action plan was included in the declaration. All the Irish delegates spoke strongly about the terrible violations of human rights that are taking place in East Timor at the behest of the Indonesian Government.

The people of East Timor have been prevented by force from exercising their right to self-determination since 1975, when the Republic of Indonesia invaded East Timor in violation of the United Nations Charter. The United Nations General Assembly and Security Council at the time condemned the aggression perpetrated by the Republic of Indonesia. However, the Indonesians continued by brutal and violent force to occupy East Timor. The Republic of Indonesia annexed the territory of East Timor and subjected its people to a policy of genocide which has resulted to date in the deaths of over 200,000 people. I will not go into the details of how those deaths and atrocities took place because that has previously been put on the official record. Suffice to say that it was totally contrary to all human rights declarations and all principles of international law.

Repeatedly, the Republic of Indonesia has shown its unwillingness to abide by the resolutions adopted by the United Nations. It also has shown an unwillingness to attend to the appeals made by the international community while refusing to recognise Portugal's status as administering power of the East Timor territory in charge of promoting the self-determination process of its people. It is appropriate that Seanad Éireann compliment the Portuguese Government on its work in trying to ensure that human rights are upheld in East Timor. While its record in East Timor some generations ago was less than commendable, the Portuguese, having left the country over 20 years ago, are now demonstrating a positive approach. We should appreciate their honesty and goodwill about this issue.

In view of the existing situation, it is appropriate that we in Seanad Éireann discuss this issue, taking into account the proceedings of the interparliamentary conference, and support and endorse the declaration that emanated from that conference. Senator Norris and Senator Dardis have put the details of the action plan and of the declaration on the official record. It is important that we endorse every aspect of those. The motion before us has the unanimous support of all parties in Seanad Éireann. We fully support the declaration made at the conference on East Timor and call on the Irish Government to take all necessary steps to ensure the implementation of the declaration in order to secure freedom and the right of self-determination for the people of East Timor.

In particular, we call on the Department of Foreign Affairs to ensure that the United Nations insists on respect for human rights in East Timor, and that the United Nations and the Governments of the countries which have been selling arms to Indonesia take urgent measures to enforce an embargo on such trade. This trade has previously been condemned by the European Parliament and by the international community. Pressure must be put on the Indonesian Government to release all East Timor political prisoners who are held in custody in Indonesia and in East Timor. Among these is Xanana Gusmao, one of the leaders of the freedom movement in East Timor. We ask the Department of Foreign Affairs to demand his immediate release.

We specifically request special action within the United Nations. It is time that the Department of Foreign Affairs requested the Secretary-General of the United Nations to call on the Government of Indonesia to comply with the recommendations of a special rapporteur on summary executions which have so far been ignored by that Government. We also ask the Department of Foreign Affairs to request the Commission on Human Rights to call on the Government of Indonesia to report to the commission on Indonesia's compliance with the recommendations of the special rapporteur. It is time the United Nations High Commissioner on Human Rights visited East Timor and reported to the Secretary General, the Commission on Human Rights and the international community on the compliance by Indonesia with the following: first, the report of the special rapporteur on summary executions; second, the reported abuses of fundamental human rights; and, third, the conformity of Indonesia with a duty to accord to the people of East Timor their right to self-determination, accorded to them by international law.

I am raising specific aspects of the action plan upon which I believe the Department of Foreign Affairs is in a position to act. Seanad Éireann has repeatedly condemned the sale of arms to countries which offend international law and human rights. Today we again call on those countries selling arms to Indonesia to immediately cease trading with Indonesia while it continues to commit such atrocities against the East Timorese people.

I express my outright condemnation of the EU in deciding last week to grant aid Indonesia for forestry development to the tune of almost £26 million while that country continues to break basic international law on human rights. I hope the Minister will outline in her response if the Department of Foreign Affairs was aware of the EU decision on that specific matter and, if it was, what action it has taken. If the Department was not aware of the decision, I ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to take a stand at the next meeting of the Council of Ministers on behalf of the Irish people and express their concern and annoyance at the EU decision on this grant assistance.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs should also focus attention on the role of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development in the economy of Indonesia and its role in East Timor. Consideration must be given to the Convention on Genocide in respect of alleged cases of genocide by Indonesia and its military forces and officials in East Timor. It is time that an international penal tribunal or a special penal tribunal for East Timor was established and the case of human rights violations processed in that tribunal.

I agree with and endorse fully Senator Norris's suggestion. A constructive offer was made at the Lisbon Conference to the Irish Government by Justice Kirby from the appeal court in Sydney, Australia, as well as a lawyer from the United States and a Swedish judge. They are prepared to process cases against Indonesia in relation to human rights violations. I join with Senator Norris in calling on the Government to take up that offer because information has been collated on a number of instances and specific cases and there is sufficient information and grounds to process cases of this nature. It was requested at the conference that the United Nations proclaim 7 December an international day for East Timor. I ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to promote that idea within the various bodies. It was also requested that the Red Cross and UNICEF increase their presence in and activities for East Timor and its people. I urge the Minister to proceed down that line.

Senator Norris made specific proposals today relating to Ireland. He suggested that the Department of Foreign Affairs proceed at every forum possible to urge Indonesia to reduce the level of its military personnel and arms in East Timor. This is a specific suggestion from Seanad Éireann. Senator Norris also suggested that a United Nations humanitarian office be established in East Timor. I fully support that and I hope the Department of Foreign Affairs pursue it further. He also suggested that the Irish Ambassador to Australia and Indonesia visit the MP imprisoned in Indonesia. That MP spoke out in a mild way against the atrocities being committed by the Indonesian Government against the people of East Timor. All parliamentarians must condemn the imprisonment of a parliamentarian and must stand for the right of free speech. It is important that this message be conveyed to the Indonesian Government and that every effort is made to ensure that parliamentarian is released.

A number of other aspects were raised at the conference which may be outside the ambit of the Department of Foreign Affairs, but nevertheless action can be taken. It was proposed that a parliamentary mission visit Indonesia and East Timor in order to impact and report upon the position of human rights, the rule of law and the demand for self determination by the people of East Timor. While in Lisbon I met some delegates from Sweden. One of them had visited East Timor but unfortunately found the visit not to be very satisfactory. Everything was very well stage-managed by the Indonesian Government and the delegation was limited in where it went and what it did. When they attempted to go outside the organised official tour or try to establish information outside of what the Indonesian Government wanted them to know, there was a poor and bad reaction from the Indonesian officials. Any parliamentary mission would have to be under the auspices of the United Nations and its purpose should be to establish exactly what principles of international law and human rights have been violated.

Today we are acting on Justice Kirby's first proposal, which was that parliamentary resolutions calling for the exercise of the right of self determination by the people of East Timor and related action would be introduced in every parliament. I am delighted Seanad Éireann is to the fore in that, but we need support and follow up from the Department of Foreign Affairs through the various official channels. We were asked to encourage the European Parliament in particular to raise the issue of East Timor in the organs of the European Union and in the European Parliament and especially to persuade the Government of the Netherlands to embrace the cause of the right of the people of East Timor to self determination and respect for their individual human rights. It was interesting that only one delegate from the Netherlands attended the conference.

It was heartening that there was a strong delegation from Australia at the conference, including Justice Kirby. The fact that the Australians came forward with such a specific action plan, being so closely aligned and associated economically with Indonesia, was heartening and encouraging. The Department of Foreign Affairs should take courage from that and recognise that Australia, which itself is economically tied and closely aligned with Indonesia, was prepared to come into an international forum made up of parliamentarians from over 32 countries with an action plan of this nature. It is extremely encouraging and a good indication of what should happen in this area in the future.

We could go on at length about the details of what is happening in East Timor, but I know there are a number of other speakers. I take the opportunity to compliment the East Timor Solidarity Group in Ireland for the tremendous work they have done in bringing to the attention of people such as myself the situation that exists in East Timor. They have circulated us with information and knowledge about an issue that we do not really have the opportunity of researching ourselves. If it were not for groups such as this and the tremendous work they are doing, this type of momentum would not have arisen. I pay particular tribute to Tom Hyland, who has done specific and good work in the area. It is important that the media at all levels, local, national and international, are constantly advised of what is happening. The media has played a fantastic and courageous role in pursuing this matter and finding out exactly what the situation is on the ground. Mention was made earlier of the five Australian journalists who lost their lives trying to establish the realities and facts on the ground in East Timor.

Of course, the real compliment must go to the East Timorese people, who are consistently fighting for their human rights and showing courage in difficult circumstances to publicise their stand for freedom. They have suffered hugely and yet continue to pursue their case with great courage and vigour. We must congratulate them and, in a sense, empathise with them. As a country which was colonised for hundreds of years, we appreciate the difficulties they are currently experiencing. The fact that we are now in a different situation puts us in a special position to argue their case effectively at all international fora. I hope this debate will in some way assist in furthering the case of delivering human rights to the people of East Timor and allowing them the opportunity for self-determination.

Mr. Lydon

I was one of those privileged Members of the House to have been invited to the recent international interparliamentary conference on East Timor held in Lisbon from 31 May to 2 June. This conference produced the important Lisbon Declaration. It was held in a lovely setting in the illustrious rooms of the Palácio de São Bento which houses the Assemblia da República. Indeed, some of our meetings were held in the old Senate Chamber, the Sala do Senado, and in the Salão Nobre.

I would like to pay tribute to the Portuguese Assemblia da Republica and, in particular, to His Excellency, the Speaker, Mr. Barbosa de Melo and to Femando Amaral, a member of parliament and the chairman of the select committee on East Timor. I also pay tribute to all those who took part, in particular the dynamic and vociferous Irish delegation which made an enormous contribution to the final result and to Mr. Tom Hyland from the Timorese action group whose work is a credit to us all.

It is over 20 years since the invasion or the illegal occupation of East Timor by Indonesia. Since then many things have taken place. At that time Portugal was de facto and de jure the ruler of East Timor and, as far as I and the United Nations is concerned, it is still de jure the legal authority. During those 20 years it is estimated that over 200,000 East Timorese, one-third of the population, perished and it is difficult to count the number of political prisoners, people who have disappeared and who have been persecuted and tortured. It has been 20 years of terrible suffering, oppression and abandonment for those who have survived. It has also been 20 years of determined struggle by a people resisting the oppressor and defending their identity.

During that time Portugal did not deny its share of the responsibilities in the process of decolonisation of East Timor, nor, indeed, before the General Assembly of the UN. I suppose history will judge the period when it was under Portuguese colonial domination. In 1974, after 450 years, East Timor was to Portugal a territory which distance made difficult and expensive to administrate. While this may justify accusations of Lisbon's neglect regarding the development of the territory, it had the advantage of resulting in less interference in the daily life of the indigenous population and in more freedom to preserve its identity, culture, traditional customs and forms of organisation.

The Portuguese Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr. Jose Manuel Durao Barroso, said that it would have been easier and certainly cheaper for Portugal to have behaved like other colonial powers in relation to territories where international disputes broke out, to have taken a formal stand in the UN, to have washed its hands in practice and to have shrugged off its historic responsibilities, but that fortunately its recently restored democracy did not allow it to distort the most elementary values, nor to ignore the principles of international law. He said that for this reason Portugal took up its historical, moral, legal and political responsibilities in accordance with the status of administering power of the non self-governing territory of East Timor as recognised by the UN. He said Portugal fought internationally to defend the interest of East Timor over the years and that at stake are the most fundamental human rights of all East Timorese; their basic human right as a people to the free choice of their political destiny, the right to self-determination.

At many fora Portugal has acted as a type of advocate or a lawyer for the people of East Timor. The Portuguese Government has continuously stressed that it would accept whatever solution came about, whether it was independence, integration or association, even with Indonesia or any other state. Portugal no longer has any interest in claims of sovereignty or claims in relation to the territory of East Timor. This stance by Portugal is based on the premise that military intervention could not succeed. As a country, Portugal respects the peaceful solution to conflicts enshrined in the United Nations Charter. I am afraid that over the past 20 years, Indonesia has proved that military suppression cannot work because with every passing day Timorese resistance gets stronger.

Portugal has been using diplomatic methods to try to develop things. It has used opportunities at international for a, when the issue of human rights in several countries and regions is raised, to give information about the situation in East Timor. This is one way in which Portugal hopes to bridge the gap or breakdown the fence around Jakarta and get through the wall of silence.

Portugal has acted at the UN Commission on Human Rights, the UN Decolonisation Committee, in the European Parliament, within the framework of the Common Security and Foreign Policy of the EU, within the framework of the EU/ASEAN relations and through bilateral contacts with the authorities of various countries at several levels. Portugal's objective is to draw the attention of these bodies to the need for a political solution to the East Timorese tragedy with full respect for human rights and the right to self-determination.

This is also the background to the lodgement of a complaint by Portugal to the International Court of Justice against Australia as regards the Timor Gap Treaty. At stake is the respect for the status of territory as defined by the UN and the right of the people of East Timor to self-determination and to permanent sovereignty over their natural resources. It is a crying shame that the international community has not spoken out more loudly against this blatant disregard for the natural resources which belong to the East Timorese people which would have been divided up between Indonesia and Australia.

Since 1984 Portugal has taken part in direct talks with Indonesia under the aegis of the UN Secretary General in accordance with the mandate he received from the General Assembly through Resolution 37/30. The Portuguese objective is to achieve a negotiated agreement in accordance with the principles of the UN Charter with full respect for the legitimate rights of the Timorese people. It should not be forgotten that according to Article 73 of the Charter the rights of a colonised people should prevail over every other interest. We should constantly remind ourselves of the first Article of the United Nations Charter, written 50 years ago, which established the new organisation on the foundation of friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples. The common first Articles of the International Covenants declare that all people have the right to self-determination and by virtue of that right to freely determine their political status and to freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. The International Court has given its blessing to the self-determination of people as a legal right as in Namibia and Western Sahara, for example.

One of the things which Portugal has consistently spoken out against is the provision of arms to Indonesia and it has stressed the importance of mobilising international efforts to stop the supply of arms to Indonesia. Another Senator also spoke about this. It is immoral to supply Indonesia with the means to perpetuate the occupation and control of these people. Nobody should have any illusions about the worth of any guarantees given because they do not hold up. When we speak of Portugal and East Timor, we must also look at Indonesia, which is a huge state, one of the fastest growing in the world. It has a huge population and its annual growth rate has been nearly 7 per cent for the past 25 years. By the year 2020 it is expected that Indonesia will be the world's fifth largest economy.

Australia deals with this country, as does New Zealand. Australia was one of the first country's to support the Indonesian demand for self-determination 50 years ago. In the UN Security Council, Australia objected to the police action when the Netherlands sought to re-impose colonial rule. We should remember that. However, in 1979 Australia recognised Indonesia's de facto sovereignty over East Timor and in 1985, under Mr. Bob Hawke's Government, it gave de jure recognition of sovereignty. Australia is one of approximately 30 countries, many of which are in the Asian Pacific region, which does so. In December 1989 Australia signed the Timor Gap Treaty with Indonesia. Australia's highest court upheld the validity of the Timor Gap Treaty which is legal there, but it determined that even if it was unlawful in international law, it could not be challenged successfully in an Australian court, not that it makes much difference internationally. We await the outcome of the other court case.

The people of Australia have become uneasy in recent times about the way their Government has behaved. There has been pressure from within and from outside Australia on the Government to modify its dealings with the Indonesians. There has been pressure to insist upon an improvement Pressure has been exerted to insist upon an improvement of the military's record on human rights in East Timor, to demand respect for the religious and cultural traditions of the East Timorese people and to terminate aid, particularly military aid, to Indonesia in the interim. There have also been calls in some quarters to repeal the 1989 Timor Gap Treaty. New Zealand and Australia have huge markets in Indonesia. Therefore, it may be unrealistic to expect too much from them. It is only through international pressure that change will occur.

I would like to pay tribute to the leaders of the Roman Catholic Church in Australia, including Cardinal Clancy of Sydney who has been highly critical of the Australian Government. I would also like to pay tribute to the Auxiliary Bishop of Melbourne, Monsignor Hilton Deakin, who is one of the few non-Indonesians to visit East Timor in the past 20 years. He returned with an image of a people without a voice, terribly oppressed but courageous, and determined, like Bishop Ximenes Belo, who despite surviving death threats and two assassination attempts by individuals contracted by the occupying forces, has continued to defend the human rights, and the right to a referendum on self-determination of the people of East Timor. His request to the Secretary General of the United Nations in February 1989, proposing the realisation of a referendum on self-determination so that the people might choose their future, testified to his own courageous attitudes.

Monsignor Hilton Deakin has had many dealings with the president and secretary of the Portuguese Council of Catholic Bishops, the president of the Portuguese Catholic University, Monsignor Jose Policarpo and the Cardinal of Lisbon. These have been very enlightening and encourage the strengthening of links between the Catholic Church in Australia, Portugal and East Timor. It should be noted that the number of Catholics in East Timor rose from 30 per cent in 1974 to over 80 per cent as a reaction to the occupation by the forces of Indonesia, a predominantly Muslim country. Catholicism has also become a very important component of Timorese nationalism and of resistance to the Indonesian occupation. I feel that tribute should be paid to these individuals due to their activities within the cause.

Some good news has come from East Timor. This includes the establishment of an Indonesian national commission for human rights, the conducting of international workshops on human rights, the expressed interest of the president on the ratification of more international human rights treaties, the investigation by the military honour council and the human rights commission of the Dili massacre in 1991 and the punishment of soldiers for proven misconduct when previously they would have been protected by the military. According to some reports there has been growing evidence of the independence of the judiciary in Indonesia in recent times. A downgrading of the military command structure in East Timor took place in April 1993. However, this does not excuse the fact that the occupation continues, as repeated reports of acts of violence in East Timor indicate. The abiding problem of denying a people their right to self-determination remains.

There has been some discussion as to whether or not the East Timorese people are part of Indonesia. If we consider the findings of the UNESCO committees, where unanimity exists about the features of a "people" for the purposes of the people's right in international law to self-determination, four features were described: (1) That the people concerned had common elements of history, tradition, racial or ethnic identity, cultural homogeneity, linguistic unity, religious ideological affinity, territorial connection and common economic life; (2) that they were sufficiently numerous to be a people for the purposes of international law; (3) that they had the institutions which gave expression to their commonalties as a people and (4) that they exhibited the will to be, and to be seen to be, a people entitled to exercise the self-determination right.

There is no doubt that the people of East Timor have these characteristics and continue to manifest them. By the general criteria and the long-established standards of the colonised people, the people of East Timor enjoy the right to self-determination under international law. The Secretary General of the United Nations, through his special representative, Mr. F. van der Ell, continues to offer the good offices of the United Nations to resolve the differences between Indonesia and Portugal over East Timor. Many people were doubtful that things would change. It might have been different if East Timor had not been integrated, but that has happened. It will be difficult to get away from that fact. Many people, particularly in Indonesia, are afraid that if East Timor were to become independent from Indonesia, separatist movements would develop in certain areas. These problems can be solved, however.

We have to keep up the pressure. I was proud to be part of the delegation that contributed to this declaration. Having adopted it in this Parliament, we are committed to courses of action which may escape the notice of the Government but will return to haunt us because the commitments in this declaration are real. I hope we honour them.

In conclusion, I will quote from two sources. The first is Mr. José Manuel Durao Barroso, who said:

I earlier called the cause of East Timor noble and idealistic. Let me make it clear that these words do not entail any lack of realism regarding the objectives of that cause. I am firmly convinced that the self-determination of East Timor will be a reality. A few years ago the self-determination of Namibia, the independence of Eritrea and of the Baltic countries, the evolution of Palestine and South Africa did not seem realistic. Nevertheless, these realities are now before your eyes. That reinforces our confidence and determination to continue to act in defence of the just cause of East Timor.

The events in our own country, where the long-standing occupation is slowly coming to an end, also reinforce a belief in the self-determination of formerly colonised people. I will end with a quotation from a speech by Justice Michael Kirby from Australia. At the conclusion of the conference he said:

Far away in East Timor are the people who know the answer to the riddle which we are examining. The answer belongs to them. It does not belong to states, to countries, history, geography or economics. Those who are pessimistic should remember the enormous progress that we have seen in the past decade. In due course, freedom will also come to East Timor. It may be freedom freely chosen within Indonesia, it may be the freedom of independence. International law promises that that freedom belongs to the people of East Timor. No one else has the right to take it away or deny it. Ultimately that freedom will prevail.

I hope that the people of East Timor, who suffer in horrific ways every day, will achieve the right to self-determination. They can exercise that right any way they wish thereafter. This fundamental right cannot continue to be denied to an independent sovereign people, overrun by a stronger military power

Mr. Magner

I agree with my colleagues in relation to the resolution itself, which has the support of all parties in this House. I welcome our distinguished guests, who represent the East Timorese action group in Ireland, and the distinguished journalist who has visited and been deported from East Timor. It is fitting that we salute the dead of East Timor, those who have suffered torture or rape and those who risked — in some cases lost — their lives in attempting to report the carnage taking place in that country to the rest of the world. Many parallels could be drawn between Ireland and East Timor. On a sunny afternoon in Dublin it may seem a rather pointless to pass resolutions or condemn foreign governments thousands of miles across the Pacific Ocean.

Whenever the question of the birth of our own country's independence and successive Irish rebellions — long before the global village or communications that could inform people instantaneously existed — was raised in the American Congress, in the French Assembly or by courageous British MPs in the House of Commons, it was heard in every town and village in Ireland. It gave people heart.

It is of profound importance that this resolution be quickly discussed, debated and agreed in our Parliament, which has the history I have outlined. It is vitally important that the voices of the East Timorese people are heard in this House. It is even more important, when the Indonesian military straps people to iron cots and attaches electrodes to their bodies, that those screams are heard here and when women and children are brutalised, raped and killed, that their screams are heard here.

This is an extremely important day for those people who are oppressed. I have no doubt, just as in this country, that this resolution and the ones which will be passed throughout Europe, will be heard and discussed by people in the villages and towns of East Timor and will give them the heart, will, strength and encouragement to carry on to achieve the freedom and independence which is rightly theirs and which we enjoy in this country and for which we paid in blood and torture.

Senator Lydon referred to the arms dealers. There is no point in appealing to arms dealers. It was interesting that in the Gulf War the munitions used by the Iraqis came from Britain and America. The torpedo boats used by the Iraqi Navy came from Brooklyn and the components for the gas the Iraqis dropped on the Kurds were manufactured in New Jersey. Appealing to arms dealers to have consciences is a contradiction in terms.

The actions of the Australian Government have long been a source of condemnation. There are little gleams of light that the Australians, who are reputed to have pretty hard necks, are finding it more and more difficult to defend internationally their position from a trade or any other standpoint. I believe the pressure the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Spring, has applied, and I know will continue to apply, will have that effect.

When Ireland assumes the Presidency of the EU in the second half of 1996, we will be in a unique position to apply not just moral but also strong political and, perhaps, economic pressure. We cannot have a situation in which we are kind of in favour of people not being shot, murdered or raped. We cannot be kind of in favour of independence. We are for the principle of democratic rule or we are not. The EU has a unique opportunity to prove it can match its words with action.

Ireland has a good record in relation to emerging nations in Asia and Africa. Long before the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Burton, who will reply to the debate, held exalted office, she had a tremendous record in the Labour Party on civil and human rights. She is uniquely qualified in many ways to hold her present position and to have an impact on the situation in East Timor because of her work in the Third World as a teacher and now as a politician.

It would be pointless to repeat a great deal of the eloquent contributions which were made, particularly by Senator Norris. Great credit is to due to him. He repeatedly raised this issue almost on a weekly basis and it is right and proper that he be given credit for it.

I compliment the Irish delegation to the Lisbon conference. It is unanimously agreed that they did an excellent job and what emanated from the conference will go a long way towards ensuring that the conditions in East Timor and of its people will be kept on the political agenda in Europe. This is extremely important and as much as can be hoped for in my opinion.

I support the motion and compliment those who have worked hard, in a lonely and silent way in some cases, because there was not a great deal of interest in this issue as people were getting on with their lives. I am sure that organisations and journalists who tried to keep it alive were ploughing fallow land. I believe that insufficient recognition is given to people who risk their lives to bring us news of events throughout the world, particularly in war areas. I am mindful of people like Mr. Bob Fisk who would have known about the Israelis and the camps in Chatila. Nobody would have known about this if journalists had not gone there at great risk to their own lives to show the world what was happening and to make it act. I salute them and the victims of the Indonesian Government's policies. I hope this motion will lead to pressure being brought to bear on the Indonesians to accept the inevitable; the people of East Timor will be free.

Dr. Henry

Like some of the previous speakers, I was privileged to attend the conference in Lisbon. I was a little dismayed the first day because I felt we had been brought there to sign a package which had already been agreed. While it may have been agreed by some Portuguese parliamentarians, the Department of Foreign Affairs in Lisbon and the diplomats working there were extraordinarily pleased by the objections put forward about this plan. We are very good at praising ourselves today but the Irish delegation was very important in resisting this move.

There were two sessions on the first day. We decided that each session should be attended by members of the delegation. Deputy Lynch and I attended one of the sessions, at which after four hours it was agreed that East Timor was the victim, Indonesia the aggressor, the people from a western culture will side with the victim and the UN is the judge but cannot enforce the sentence. Some people said we could have been sent postcards telling us of these decisions without having to go to Lisbon at all. There was a tremendous feeling that it was most urgent that the conference produce something concrete. This is why it was so important that interventions by Senator Taylor-Quinn in particular were noted and the whole atmosphere at the conference changed.

It is also important that there was a large number of Australian and New Zealand parliamentarians there. An amazing number of them had Irish connections and I want to point out the value of using the Irish diaspora in this situation. I have been in contact with one of these parliamentarians because they explained to me that in New Zealand, which is not quite as important as Australia in this matter, there is a strong feeling among the general public that the Australian Government in particular, and the New Zealand Government to a lesser extent, should become much less involved with the Indonesians on certain matters. It would be well worth our while writing to those parliamentarians to ask them to raise with their foreign affairs committees our objections to the involvement of these two countries in military matters with Indonesia.

I agree with Senator Magner. It is a splendid idea to ask for the sale of arms to Indonesia to be banned, but when one realises that arms were sold by every nation that apparently banned the selling of arms to both sides in the Iran-Iraq war, one begins to despair. It may be a question of seeing which country sells the arms first.

There is also the question of joint military training. This is a deplorable situation but something could be done about it. For example, if pressure was applied to the New Zealand Government, it might do something. That is an area in which we could lodge the strongest objections. The New Zealand parliamentarians to whom I spoke said that something could be done if there was a little more support from the outside. We are always talking about the Irish vote in the United States, but there is also a strong Irish vote in New Zealand and Australia. I suggest that the Department of Foreign Affairs write to the New Zealand Administration; we can also write to individual parliamentarians. The New Zealand Administration is to be involved shortly in joint military training with the Indonesian Army. The Indonesians rely to a great extent on both of these groups for training, which seems extraordinary. If more pressure was put on New Zealand regarding the training, it would show our strong objection to what is happening in East Timor. It is amazing to discover the amount of training the Australians are giving to the Indonesian Army; we could build a policy around this.

Having written a letter to the Bangkok Times on the atrocities on the Thai-Burmese border and getting a response, it might also be worthwhile writing to Australian and New Zealand newspapers. I stress Australia and New Zealand — of course all countries should object — because they are important to Indonesia from an economic point of view and letters to their newspapers signed by a Member of this House would do no harm. Our embassy can also keep making our objections known in both countries. There are practical measures that we can take as well as the more extensive ones that Mr. Justice Kirby pointed out in his excellent summing up of what he felt should be done.

The only other country I can see in the region over which we might have some influence is Japan. The Japanese representatives we met at the conference seemed open to discussion on this subject and evidenced concern about the impact its involvement with Indonesia might have on trade. After all, we have many economic connections with Japan. I suggest that avenue could also be pursued.

It was impossible not to be moved by the appalling accounts the members of the various resistance groups told us. Senator Magner described some of the atrocities that are going on there, but the brutality meted out by that regime is extraordinary. I have been to Indonesia and it was the only country I have visited where I felt a great sense of fear among a substantial number of its population. It is hard to imagine what the current situation must be like for the people in East Timor.

Our objections are worthwhile. People ask what we can do about events occurring on the other side of the world. We do have influence there, particularly in Australia and New Zealand. On an individual as well as a national basis, I would like to see us trying to cash in on that influence a little more. My most urgent wish would be that neither the Australian or New Zealand Armies should give any more co-operation in the training of the Indonesian Army because they are only training those who go out to commit genocide.

In case anyone thinks I had a falling out with Tom Hyland, I want to say that I am glad to see him present in the Public Gallery. I too recognise what a tremendous contribution he has made to this debate in Ireland. I also want to praise those members of the press who have put their lives in danger by reporting from an area where there is no safe haven for anyone and there is little in the way of respect for freedom of speech or reporting. It is essential that we ensure that those who died have not done so in vain.

Mr. Sherlock

I welcome this motion. All too often, our delegates go abroad to conferences but seldom do we get any response. It is important that this debate is taking place and the fact that we have put it at the top of our agenda shows our concern for East Timor.

It is unfortunate that some sections of the media appear to consider our deliberations irrelevant because they are missing out on debates which often reflect the concerns of the Irish people at large. Senators have lost no opportunity to ensure that the plight of the East Timorese people remains at the top of the political agenda, but talk must be accompanied by action. We should start by looking for action on the trade between Ireland and Indonesia and between the European Union and Indonesia. People rarely come before profit and that has been especially clear in the case of Indonesia.

I would like for a moment to focus on the role which trade has played both in the Indonesian regime and the role which selected sanctions could play in persuading the Indonesian authorities to observe human rights in East Timor, Irian Jaya, North Sumatra and Indonesia itself.

The situation in East Timor is by no means unique. The process of invasion, settlement and institutionalised discrimination has been repeated all over the world in slightly different forms. What is unusual in the case of East Timor is that the Indonesian occupation is not recognised by the United Nations, which regards Portugal, rather than Indonesia, as the administering power of East Timor. This places East Timor in a position similar to that of Namibia prior to independence where the South African occupation was not recognised by the United Nations, which continued to regard Namibia as a mandated territory under terms deriving from the League of Nations.

Unfortunately, the efforts of both the United Nations and the Portuguese authorities with regard to East Timor have been greeted with little more than an indulgent smile by those countries with vested economic interests in Indonesia, East Timor or Irian Jaya. All in all, the United Nations has adopted ten resolutions relating to East Timor. It is regrettable that the international community has not acted on them with the same determination they displayed in the case of Kuwait.

Let us face it, Indonesia is an international crook. The following are just some of the international laws and conventions which it has breached; the United Nations Charter, the 1949 Geneva Convention, the 1970 Declaration on Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States and the UN General Assembly Resolution 31/53 of 1 December 1976. In addition, Indonesia has breached its own code of criminal procedure on numerous occasions. Most dispassionate observers must wonder why, in the face of repeated breaches of both international and domestic law, the Security Council has not resolved to impose sanctions in accordance with Article 41 of the United Nations Charter, which provides for complete or partial interruption of economic relations and of rail, sea, air, postal, telegraphic, radio and other means of communications, and the severance of diplomatic relations.

There have, of course, been numerous contacts between the United Nations and the Indonesian authorities regarding East Timor and the role of the UN Secretary General, Mr. Boutros Boutros-Ghali, in facilitating talks has been particularly valuable. The UN Commission on Human Rights, together with the International Committee of the Red Cross, have also played an important role in gathering information and monitoring human rights abuses. I am sure all Members are familiar with the recent report prepared for the commission by the Special Rapporteur on Extrajudicial, Summary and Arbitrary Executions. The actions taken by the UN to date, however, have had little impact on the Indonesian authorities. Indeed, one cannot avoid the impression that Indonesia is merely playing international opinion on a string.

Much of the world today is organised in economic blocs of one form or another, and in many cases these blocs have been a force for peace, stability and human rights. Indonesia, together with Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore and Thailand, is a member of ASEAN — the Association of SouthEast Asian Nations. At a foreign Ministers meeting in September 1994, the EU and ASEAN Ministers issued a joint declaration, part of which stated:

The Ministers emphasised their common commitment to the promotion of and respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms on the basis of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Vienna Declaration and Programme of Action. They expressed their strong support for the successful implementation of the Vienna Declaration and Programme of Action.

That statement, to which the Indonesian Minister was a signatory last year, must ring hollow in the ears of the thousands of East Timorese and Indonesians who have been systematically brutalised by the Indonesian regime.

I appreciate the need for continuing contacts between the EU and ASEAN. However, I feel that more pressure must be exerted by the EU on ASEAN in general, and Indonesia in particular, if the EU is to fully live up to its Treaty of Rome aspirations. In particular, I am concerned that our own Government received the Indonesian Ambassador as part of an ASEAN delegation. This sends conflicting signals both to Indonesia and to the beleaguered people of East Timor.

Since the Indonesian invasion ten years ago, one-third of the East Timorese people has been exterminated while the rest of the world has stood idly by. The Governments of France, Britain, Australia and Japan, in particular, seem determined to maintain the status quo. In effect, the oil trade and the arms trade have conspired against the East Timorese people.

I do not, however, believe that we can view East Timor in isolation from other territories occupied by Indonesia, as I have already mentioned, in particular, Irian Jaya and North Sumatra. International economic, political and military support for the Indonesian regime has enabled it to conduct campaigns of oppression in both territories, although admittedly on a lower scale than in East Timor, nor should we forget the numerous breaches of human rights within Indonesia itself.

The iniquitous role played by Australia in East Timor is well documented, and in February of this year Australia was arraigned at the International Court of Human Rights for its collaboration with the Indonesian authorities. Indeed, the role played by Australia in the East Timorese tragedy has been a particularly ignominious one. In 1989, Australia and Indonesia signed the so-called Timor Gap Treaty, permitting Australia and other multinational oil companies to drill for oil off the East Timor seabed. It is estimated that the area off East Timor may yield several million barrels of oil, and oil, as we have witnessed before, counts for far more than human rights.

I am aware that talks are currently ongoing between the Indonesian and Portuguese Governments under the auspices of the United Nations, and that negotiations are now due to start in June, having been postponed from April. While I wish these talks well, I feel that there is also a role to be played by both the United Nations and the European Union in examining the various options in respect of sanctions should the current talks not result in a satisfactory resolution of the situation.

The Indonesian regime, and its occupation of East Timor and other territories, is being shored up by trade. It is my belief that trade — or the absence of trade — is also the key to ending the Indonesian occupation of East Timor and vindicating the East Timorese people's right to self-determination. I have already identified the big players in the economic game being played between Indonesia and the rest of the world. Unfortunately, there are also smaller players.

I was surprised, and indeed disappointed, to learn from my colleague, Deputy Lynch, that the total volume of trade has actually increased from £16,277,000 in 1989 to £42,338,000 in 1993. In just four years, trade between Ireland and Indonesia has increased over two and a half times. The total volume of trade is, however, minute, if compared with traditional large trading nations such as Britain and France. I understand the difficulty of imposing unilateral sanctions against third countries. but I do not believe that unilateral sanctions on their own work. Portugal has had comprehensive trade sanctions in place since the Indonesian invasion in 1975, yet ten years on they have done little to dissuade the Indonesians. I believe the time is fast approaching when we must press in international fora, both at UN and EU level, for selective sanctions to be adopted on a co-ordinated and monitored basis.

If the current talks do not reach a satisfactory resolution, I believe that phased and selective trading sanctions should be introduced, starting with State and semi-State enterprises and joint ventures. In this regard, I was disappointed recently to learn that the Irish electricity utility is engaged in two joint ventures with Indonesian utilities. The withdrawal of such co-operation, and similar joint ventures by other EU utilities, would, I believe, have a significant impact on the Indonesian military-industrial complex, while having few adverse effects on the civilian population.

The merits of sanctions have often been debated. Many argue that they are ineffectual and, indeed, one need only point to the oil supplies which continue to penetrate the blockade around Serbia to see how ineffectual unco-ordinated sanctions can be. Others point to the effect of sanctions on non-combatant civilian populations and, in particular, children. We are all conscious of the immense human suffering which has been caused by the US blockade of Cuba or the sanctions against Iraq. These side effects can be avoided by selectivity and careful monitoring by international agencies such as the International Committee of the Red Cross or UNICEF, as well as non-governmental organisations such as Christian Aid, Caritas or Concern.

Sanctions have worked in the past and they can work again. The co-ordinated effort to impose selective sanctions on South Africa led, it is generally acknowledged, to the release of Nelson Mandela, the unbanning of the ANC and the UDF and the democratic elections which took place on 27 April last year. Had sanctions not been imposed, South Africa would probably today be either still in the grip of apartheid or in the throes of a bloody civil war. We owe it to the people of East Timor to demonstrate the same international solidarity and resolution which eventually brought an end to apartheid.

In 1996 Ireland will hold the Presidency of the EU and I hope the Irish Government will use its EU Presidency to put East Timor at the top of the European political agenda and to ensure that the EU adopts a resolute and unified position in this matter. In particular, the EU as a whole should support Portugal in its efforts to find a solution to a problem which has so far left over 200,000 East Timorese dead and many more maimed for life.

Mr. Lanigan

I will not detain the House for very long this afternoon. I join with the other speakers in welcoming the opportunity to discuss East Timor.

To many people, East Timor is at the other end of the world and questions might be asked as to why we take such an interest in it. However, we all have consciences and we must express our abhorrence of the horrific attitude of the Indonesian Government to the rape of East Timor and the slaughter of its people. The former President of Portugal put it well when he quoted from a poem by Santiago:

Abandoned there at the ends of the earth in a land no longer our own.

Slaves, now, we are guilty.

Those who remain are dying slowly and every man there lives a truth.

We die a little every day when we lose strength and freedom.

There is no dying slowly in the East Timorese situation. Over 200,000 people have been slaughtered by the Indonesians since they took over.

The Portuguese have of late attempted to help in the resolution of the problems in that country but we must remember that they were the colonial power from 1702 until 1975. They left behind, as colonial powers usually do, a country which was ready for raping by the invading forces of Indonesia. Another former colony of Portugal, Mozambique, is the third poorest nation in the world because of the lack of input by the Portuguese before they withdrew.

The conference held in Portugal recently was important in forming world opinion in regard to the plight of the East Timorese people. It was appropriate that it was held in Portugal but the Portuguese must work much harder than they have done in the past toward a resolution of the problems of East Timor. Some 200,00 people have been killed, many of whom were tortured or raped first. We must condemn the Indonesian Government for their actions in East Timor, and the Indonesian people for concurring with those actions.

East Timor would not be important to Indonesia were it not for the fact that it is rich in oil and other natural resources. Not alone have these natural resources been misused since the Indonesians moved in, but they have been misused to the detriment of the remaining East Timorese people. There would not be much interest on the Indonesian side were it not for the value of East Timor's natural assets. The international community has been very fast to move into other areas to try to resolve problems but because East Timor is a very small country and not of great international importance, nothing has been done. However, East Timor is of great importance to the people who live there.

We must condemn the attitude of the Australians because, without their help, the Indonesians could not have annexed East Timor to the same degree. We can often be proud of what the Irish in Australia have done since the colonisation of Australia approximately 210 years ago. If we are proud that 40 per cent of the population of Australia is Irish or of Irish descent, then we must condemn that 40 per cent of the population of Australia for not getting involved in an attempt to relieve the people of East Timor.

Europe's arms industry has profited substantially by supplying arms to Indonesia. It is suggested that these arms will not be used against the East Timorese people, but if one supplies arms to Indonesia, which is occupying East Timor, it is not possible to stipulate that the shipment of arms being sold cannot be used in East Timor but can be used for protection of Indonesia's own territory. This naive view has been foisted upon us by certain people from the supplying countries. The wishes of the East Timorese are not listened to by the European Union. Even today members of the European Union are supplying arms to that part of the world.

Does anybody take note when a debate like this takes place within the Houses of the Oireachtas? I often wonder whether there is any real result from such a debate other than the fact that it gives the issue an airing and a little publicity. A matter raised in this House does not get very much publicity. It might get ten or 15 seconds on "Oireachtas Report", but it will definitely not be mentioned in the Irish Independent. It might be mentioned in The Irish Times and The Cork Examiner. Publicity values are not what they should be.

Genocide is a crime against humanity. An international day of solidarity with the people of East Timor is to be organised for December. For many years one day in November has been recognised as a day of international support for the Palestinian people. I ask our representatives at the United Nations to get involved in the efforts to have a day of international support for East Timor raised at United Nations level. I ask that our Ambassador to the UN and the other people involved at a political level in our mission to the United Nations to fight very hard on this issue.

Indonesia's power in the world is not of great significance but, having said that, it has been able to assimilate East Timor and kill a huge proportion of its people. One wonders whether a trade embargo on Indonesia would succeed where everything else has failed; it would highlight the position of the East Timorese to a greater degree than at present. If the Indonesians are hurt in their pockets they might be persuaded to withdraw completely from East Timor, which is what most people on the international stage want.

The super powers — by which I mean the USA, Russia and the EU — should become involved and be much more active in their efforts to regularise the political system in East Timor and get the Indonesians out as quickly as possible. Our friendship with the Australian people must suffer because of their country's actions in this region.

Thankfully the UN has never recognised the annexation of East Timor by Indonesia but it has not intervened as it did in Bosnia, Haiti and Iraq. If there was a multinational effort on the same scale as Operation Desert Storm, the force which aided Kuwait, or the force in Bosnia — although that has not been successful — it would help the situation.

Like other Members I agree with the motion. The Tánaiste and our representatives at the UN and the EU should fight to have 7 December recognised as the international day of solidarity for East Timor.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Ms Burton)

I thank the Senators and Deputies who participated at the conference, at which there was substantial representation from Ireland. I listened with great interest to the points made by contributors this afternoon.

Above all else, the situation in Indonesia and East Timor is a consequence of some of the worst forms of cold war politics. If one looks at the history of that region in the context of the developments of the 1960s and 1970s, one sees that this is unfinished business from the cold war. Professor Noam Chomsky almost single-handedly brought what happened there to the attention of the northern and western world. He and the many journalists and media people who laboured long and hard to highlight East Timor deserve our thanks and commendation.

Senator Lanigan raised the question of why we should be interested in East Timor as we do not have a presence there, nor do we have a traditional missionary connection as would be the case elsewhere. In that respect one has to congratulate the East Timor-Ireland Solidarity Group, who took up the issue, informed public opinion and briefed Deputies and Senators over a number of years, to the extent that it is not merely Members of this House who feel a strong commitment to the case for human rights in East Timor. I know that view is shared especially by many schoolchildren and students. As with the struggle against apartheid in South Africa, we have taken this issue to heart and Ireland will continue to press at parliamentary, governmental and individual levels whenever we can.

The Government can support the Lisbon Declaration which I understand was adopted unanimously. The declaration appears to be in two parts and some subjects are mentioned in both, for instance, the question of an arms embargo is referred to in paragraph 3 of the first part and paragraph 11 of the second. There are a number of items in the declaration which call for attention.

Paragraph 2 of the declaration calls on the United Nations to ensure the respect for human rights in East Timor. This has been the cornerstone of Irish Government policy. As Senators will be aware, the chairman's statement, adopted by consensus by all the participants, including Indonesia, at this year's session of the UN Commission on Human Rights in January, expressed deep concern over the continuing reports of violation of human rights in East Timor. Reports would indicate that the situation has not improved since then. I attended the commission session in Geneva where I spoke about East Timor and met its foreign representative.

The chairman's statement records Indonesia's undertaking to invite the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to visit East Timor this year and to report to the next session of the Commission on Human Rights. Indonesia has also undertaken to invite the Special Rapporteur on the question of torture and the working group on arbitrary detention to visit East Timor when it is necessary for them to do so in order to fulfil their duties.

Indonesia's commitment to receive the High Commissioner for Human Rights and the relevant special rapporteur and working group is a positive outcome from this year's CHR. The visit of the Commission on Human Rights Special Rapporteur on Extrajudicial, Summary or Arbitrary Executions, Mr. Bacre Waly Ndiaye, to East Timor in July 1994, and his subsequent detailed and severe report which was submitted to this year's CHR has certainly increased the pressure on the Indonesian authorities to address the situation in East Timor.

It is important that this international pressure be maintained, and that Indonesia follows through on its commitment to allow access to United Nations representatives, especially the High Commissioner for Human Rights. I can assure Senators that the Government will continue to support any initiative taken by the UN to ensure respect for human rights in East Timor. We hope the Indonesian authorities are doing their best to comply with the terms of resolutions and the recommendations of reports adopted by UN bodies.

As contributors have said, this is the 50th anniversary of the UN and its future role and relevance are being debate in many quarters. I hold the opinion that the future of the UN will in large measure be judged by its capacity to come to grips with situations like East Timor, using positive and preventive diplomacy. As part of our continuing and increasing contributions to UN multilateral agencies, we have, this year, substantially increased our funding for the work of the office of the Special Rapporteur and the various UN agencies which deal with torture. It is important, in terms of our development budget, to contribute to that work because it is highly technical and specialised.

The other issue which I regard as urgent in relation to the United Nations — it was referred to today — is that of a permanent international criminal tribunal for crimes against humanity. The special tribunal in the former Yugoslavia and the work being done in the tribunal on the crimes of genocide in Rwanda show that the mechanisms of special tribunals are, unfortunately, slow and complex. There is a need at UN level to establish an international criminal court. This mechanism would speedily address issues such as East Timor.

The declaration, which has been adopted, urges the UN and all Governments and Parliaments of the countries which have been selling arms to Indonesia to take measures aimed at enforcing an embargo to such trade condemned by the European Parliament and by the international community. It also talks about a selective arms embargo. The Government is well aware of the role which is played by the Indonesian military forces in maintaining control over East Timor and would fully support the taking of such measures.

We also endorse the view of the Portuguese Foreign Minister who said at the Lisbon conference:

I would like to underline the importance of mobilising opposition to the supply of military equipment to Indonesia, because it is the Indonesian military who have benefited from the occupation and exploitation of East Timor. It is immoral to give them the means to continue that occupation.

The Government calls on all countries supplying arms to Indonesia for use in East Timor to desist from this practice. The Government is prepared to raise the matter of the supply of arms with its partners in the EU.

During the 50th anniversary of the UN one must recall that 85 per cent of the arms in the world are supplied by the five permanent members of the UN Security Council. The UN faces this moral dilemma in terms of its move towards change and reform of the organisation's role in today's world. There is no easy answer to this problem. Members spoke earlier about Ireland's moral authority as a neutral country to speak out. We must address this area when we get the opportunity to do so.

I now come to the case of Xanana Gusmao and Timorese political prisoners. The declaration demands the immediate release of Xanana Gusmao and all Timorese political prisoners held in custody in East Timor and Indonesia. The trial of Mr. Gusmao attracted widespread international attention and, when he was sentenced to life imprisonment in 1993, there were protests from around the world. The Tánaiste wrote to the Indonesian Foreign Minister, Mr. Ali Alatas, at that time. The response was to reduce his sentence to 20 years. I take this opportunity to repeat that it is essential that he and other political prisoners be released. A number of Senators mentioned the possibility of our Ambassador visiting Mr. Gusmao in prison. This could be examined, particularly in the context of the suggestion that an eminent group of persons would visit him. I am prepared to ask the Tánaiste to consider our participation, if invited, in such a group.

The Government welcomes the second part of the declaration entitled, "Suggestions for a Plan of Action on East Timor", which was adopted by the conference. The Government supports the use of opportunities at whatever level and in whatever form to highlight the situation in East Timor. The plan of action contains many useful suggestions on how this might be achieved effectively in Parliament and sub-national Parliaments in the United Nations and other areas. These suggestions amount to a challenging and substantial programme of work which, as I have said, will further the cause of the people of East Timor and bring to bear a much more constant focus on it.

The proposal for parliamentary missions to visit Indonesia and East Timor in order to inspect and report on the position of human rights, the rule of law and the demand for self-determination by the people of East Timor is welcome. It was good to see the Indonesian authorities reiterating their commitment to allow access to human rights, humanitarian organisations and international media to East Timor at this year's session of the UN Commission on Human Rights. However, it is clear that the Indonesian authorities are continuing to decide on what terms they will permit access. It is important that international pressure be maintained on the Indonesian authorities to permit full, free and open access to all groups, including parliamentary delegations, to East Timor.

The plan of action calls for the issue of East Timor to be raised in the organs of the European Union. The Government regularly makes known its concern about the situation in East Timor to our partners in the Union and we will continue to do so. As is done in the Lisbon Declaration, I also pay tribute once again to the patient heroism of the people of East Timor.

I would also like to refer to the all-inclusive intra-Timorese dialogue which, as Senators will be aware, took place in Austria from 3 to 5 June, almost coinciding with the Lisbon conference. It is a positive sign when two meetings such as these take place together. These talks, at which Timorese, both those who accept and those who reject Indonesia's presence in East Timor, were represented had, in the words of the Portuguese Minister for Foreign Affairs, the potential to give an important impetus to the process of direct dialogue with Indonesia under the aegis of the UN Secretary General.

At the end of the meeting the Burg-Schlaining Declaration was adopted by the 30 East Timorese delegates, representing a broad cross-section of political opinion from inside and outside the territory. This declaration proposes to the UN Secretary General the holding of another intra-Timorese dialogue with a view to continuing the debate on issues discussed by the participants. It suggests that such meetings should precede each round of talks between the Foreign Ministers of Indonesia and Portugal which take place under the auspices of the UN Secretary General.

In their declaration the participants reaffirmed the need to implement the necessary measures in the field of human rights and other areas with a view to promoting peace, stability, justice and social harmony. They also reaffirm the necessity for social and cultural development of East Timor to be based on the preservation of the cultural identity of the people, including the teaching of the Tetun and Portuguese languages. The declaration expresses the need to create the basis for the involvement of all East Timorese without discrimination of any sort in the development of East Timor in a climate of mutual understanding, tolerance and harmony. Furthermore, the declaration affirms the importance of the ongoing negotiations between the Governments of Indonesia and Portugal under the auspices of the Secretary General which aim at finding a just and lasting peace.

Senators will be aware that some time after the meeting had ended the pro-Indonesian side dissociated themselves from the last phrase containing the reference to UNGA Resolution 37/30. This resolution spoke about the "inalienable right of all peoples to self-determination and independence", to Portugal as the administering power in East Timor and to previous resolutions which were critical of Indonesia. We hope that this development does not endanger the holding of future sessions of the intra-Timorese talks.

The head of the UN team in Austria declared himself satisfied and happy with the result. I understand that the Austrian Declaration will be discussed by the Portuguese and Indonesian Foreign Ministers when they meet in Geneva on 9 July for the sixth round of the talks under the auspices of the UN Secretary General. Like the meeting in Lisbon, the talks were another first, particularly because the role of the people of East Timor and their representatives has now been recognised.

I can draw international comparisons by saying that many people thought there would never be any movement in South Africa and that Mr. Nelson Mandela would never be released. In the context of the end of the Cold War, when there are no longer two factions who may be deemed to take specific sides with regard to conflict, we have space in which to move. Within the additional context of this year at the UN, we have a specific and correct focus on questions of the universality of human rights and respect for the concept of self-determination. Not only in the North of Ireland, but also between the Israelis and Palestinians there have been moves to talk.

The whole question of opening, beginning and encouraging a dialogue must be seen as being of the utmost significance. It must be matched by appropriate international pressure which both commands and encourages the Indonesians to take appropriate steps to bring what has been an appalling situation and violation of human rights in East Timor to end.

In addition, the whole question of the supply of arms, not just with regard to this conflict but on a world wide basis, must be addressed. The Indonesian military is a powerful purchaser of arms. In terms of international development, one must question whether it is appropriate that countries such as Indonesia, where there has been rapid economic progress but where there is a huge amount of want and a large and growing population, should be encouraged by the military/industrial complex in western countries to buy more and more arms. If we can address some of these issues and support the positive moves that are now being made, I am hopeful that within a relatively short period of time we will begin to make progress.

Mr. Neville

I thank the Minister for her contribution and the participants who attended the conference in Lisbon. They represented us very well. I listened carefully to the full debate and recognise the progress made at the Lisbon Conference, small though it be in the context of improving the situation. I introduced an Adjournment debate on this issue last week and wished the delegates from the House to the conference well. I congratulate the Leader of the House in allowing this debate at such an early stage after their return.

Indonesia's Government has killed, tortured and jailed its opponents at will for almost three decades under the guise of fighting communism and instability. For most of that time the international community has remained silent. There is a simple reason for this. From its inception, Indonesia's new order of government was seen as an important friend and ally to the west and has been spared criticism by its Asian neighbours and member states of the non aligned movement. With the fourth largest population in the world, a vast store of natural resources and a huge supply of cheap labour, Indonesia has always been seen as an economic prize. I welcome the fact that some Governments have now begun to voice concern with regard to East Timor and a handful have backed up their words with action.

The first major expression of outrage was over the Santa Cruz massacre. A series of UN resolutions in 1992-93 and 1994 openly criticised Indonesia for its poor human rights record in East Timor. Nevertheless, the response of the international community to Indonesia's human rights record leaves much to be desired. Many Governments which express concern continue to supply to Indonesia military equipment which could be used to commit human rights violations. The Minister referred to this in her speech. In the past two year the UK has approved the sale of 40 jet fighters; Germany has sold three submarines and 39 other naval vessels, some with missile launchers; Switzerland approved the sale of ammunition and parts of anti-aircraft guns; Australian military conducted joint exercises and training with Indonesia's counter insurgency unit; and the EU Commission rejected proposals for an arms embargo.

It is a brave thing to be a human rights activist in Indonesia and East Timor. It can mean putting at risk the basic principles of the right to life, freedom from torture, freedom from hunger and the freedom of speech, association and belief for one's life and liberty. Thousands of people in Indonesia and East Timor have put human rights first. They need our support. The best way to support them is to publicise the grave violation of human rights for which the Indonesian Government is responsible. In this respect I welcome this debate, one of many debates that have taken place in the House, as another way of publicising the grave violation of human rights. I compliment the organisers and, again, compliment those who attended the conference in Portugal for work undertaken in this area.

One of the problems is that the international community has focused almost exclusively on the human rights problem in East Timor and, even there, only on the most dramatic incidents, such as the Santa Cruz massacre. It is important that these are raised and that we focus on them, but not to the exclusion of everything else. Grave violations committed by Indonesian forces throughout the area have gone virtually unnoticed or have been treated as isolated incidents rather than part of a pattern of close and systematic human rights violation which has unfolded over more than a quarter of a century. Trade union activists are arrested, harassed and sometimes tortured. Scores of trade Unionists were arrested during the wave of strikes in early 1994 and several were charged with political crimes.

The Government does not depend on force alone to suppress dissent. It also relies on a system of political control based on the state ideology, termed pancasila, the constitution and officially defined national goals, such as security, order and development. Any opposition to these, however peaceful, is illegal and dealt with by firm measures. Each year dozens of books, plays, lectures, films, meetings and poetry readings are banned. Prisoners of conscience are serving long sentences because they were found in possession of banned books. Farmers who resisted the appropriation of their land, writers who challenged the state's interpretation of history, Muslim preachers, labour activists, activists for democratisation of the system, human rights lawyers, advocates of independence for East Timor all risk accusations of being subversives, communists, terrorists or traitors. They risk arbitrary detention, torture, imprisonment or death — a powerful deterrent to all but the most courageous.

In this debate we should call on the Indonesian Government to resolve to provide redress for human rights violations, to investigate political killings and the disappearance of political activists. All prisoners of conscience should be released and it should provide fair trials for or release of all political prisoners. We should call on the Indonesian Government to compensate victims and their relatives and to bring those responsible for abuses to justice. It should also introduce clear policies which will provide for the expression of human rights in East Timor, abolish the death penalty, prohibit extra judicial executions and torture and the use in the courts of East Timor of evidence obtained under torture, ensure that all detainees have access to lawyers of their choice as well as to doctors and relatives, and repeal the anti subversion laws.

What can the Irish Government do as part of the EU? The EU must urge the Indonesian Government to invite the relevant UN bodies to visit Indonesia and East Timor. We should also urge the Indonesian Government to implement the UN recommendations on preventing torture and extra judicial executions. The Government should ensure that the human rights situation in East Timor and Indonesia is monitored under the auspices of the UN and we should demand that the Indonesian Government accede to the international human rights standards.

The Government, through the EU, should also ask the Indonesian Government to ensure asylum seekers are not returned to Indonesia or East Timor if they are at risk of serious human rights violations there. This should apply to all nations. We should recognise that asylum seekers from East Timor or Indonesia risk serious human rights violations, torture and possibly death if they returned.

Seven years is enough time for the rulers of any state to restore human rights and 27 years is far too long for those who have suffered such theft to have to defend and uphold their rights. The violation of human rights since 1965 must stop. In that time hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed, their mutilated bodies sometimes left in a public place to rot. Prisoners, both political and criminal, have been routinely tortured and ill treated, some so severely that they died or suffered permanent injury. Following show trials, thousands of people have been imprisoned solely for their peaceful, political or religious views. Scores of prisoners have been killed by firing squad, some after more than two decades on death row.

Political killings provide the most dramatic evidence of the magnitude of the human rights problem in Indonesia and East Timor. The wholesale slaughter which followed the 1965 coup, when between 500,000 and one million people were killed, appears to have established a precedent for dealing with political opponents in East Timor.

Last week I acknowledged the Tánaiste's statements to this House in April when he expressed the great concern in Ireland at the situation in East Timor and at the gross abuse of human rights which has been reported from the territory. International pressure must be mobilised to stop the persecution of the East Timorese people. Evidence is still coming through of the continuing atrocities. I thank, as I did last week, the East Timor Ireland Solidarity Campaign for giving us some information in this area.

On 16 May a male nurse, in an interview with the Australian Associated Press, told of treating victims of torture, rape and heatings by Indonesian soldiers in East Timor while working there for three months this year. Mr. Simon De Faux from Melbourne told the Age newspaper that he heard from locals that there had been six other massacres following the Dili massacre. He said he was watched around the clock after arriving there in February and that he was hit by a soldier with a rifle butt when he tried to stop troops beating an eight year old boy. The boy's injuries were so serious that almost certainly he would have lost an eye.

Mr. De Faux said on another occasion an officer tried to shoot him after he took photographs of a village market place with a soldier in the background. A local nun stepped in front of the rifle and talked the officer out of it. Mr. De Faux arrived in the East Timor capital, Dili, on 9 February after the Indonesian authorities would only allow him in as a health worker and not a nurse. He said he found himself in the middle of a dirty war which was being fought on Australia's doorstep, but no one knew about it. He quickly found out that the Australian Government did not care.

He said he secretly treated victims of Indonesian atrocities brought to him. They included women who had been repeatedly raped, men tortured by being tied naked to a metal bed and having electric charges sent through their bodies, youths almost drowned in barrels of water and many victims who were badly beaten. He said that in East Timor's south area the Timorese were being forced off fertile land to make way for Indonesian migrants. The Church then moved him to the north, which he reached by hiding under pig carcasses in the back of a truck.

On 8 March the Australian Ambassador to Indonesia, Mr. Alan Taylor, who was on tour at the time, met Mr. De Faux. Mr. De Faux said that a member of Mr. Taylor's staff told him not to talk to the media about his experience. "The Australian was not interested in what I said and told me to keep quiet."

I refer to a report from a source close to the Catholic Church in East Timor, which for obvious reasons must remain anonymous. This was a briefing on East Timor by the Catholic Church. During the past six months, since the Asia Pacific Economic Co-operation meeting in Jakarta, the situation in East Timor has been extremely volatile with increased numbers of actions by the clandestine urban movement. This has largely been in the form of demonstrations or mass response to violent or intimidating behaviour by the occupying military forces. The common view is that this is evidence that the clandestine movement is not only still strong but able to change and adapt to meet the new demands and strategies of the occupying Indonesian forces.

Two particular killings have had a strong impact in the past three months: the reported massacre outside the parish church in Baucau in January, and the killing of six civilians in the town of Liquicia in February. The number of people killed in Baucau is unclear and, as yet, the justice and peace commission of the diocese has made no investigation. A number of sources report that the local Church officials are not happy about reporting this incident for fear of reprisals.

In Liquicia the opposite was true, with effective reporting from the local parish bringing the killings to international attention and ensuring that the new Indonesian national human rights commission undertook an immediate investigation. The report of the commission attacked the military's description of the incident as a "military engagement" and demanded the military take action against those responsible. Although little confidence in Indonesian national institutions is expressed by most Timorese, there was a positive response to the commission's report.

In order to satisfy international opinion, it is likely that more severe penalties will be imposed on the officers responsible for the Liquicia killings than those given to the military responsible for the Santa Cruz killings in 1991. There are strong rumours that the present military commander in East Timor will be removed and there is some trepidation in regard to who will replace him. With the clandestine network as strong as ever, any opportunities to demonstrate rejection of interrogation will continue to be taken and the military will not temper its brutality.

The Indonesian policy of divide and rule and the application of a form of low intensity conflict is having a substantial impact. The ninja gangs, groups of Timorese youths paid by the military to undertake terrorising gang raids at night on the houses of identified critics of Indonesian integration, have produced a heightened sense of fear. Recruits for the ninjas are said to come from the increased numbers of youths involved in martial arts youth culture. The development of martial arts clubs is heavily encouraged by the military and many of them take on a fanatical nature similar to the Alsa Masa militia group in the Philippines. In the southern town of Suai a litany of ninja gang attacks is reported, although it is difficult to ascertain whether there have been fatalities.

Since the retirement last year of the town mayor — a Timorese who had the confidence of the local population and who was replaced by a Javanese military officer — relations between the local government and Church have taken a downturn. A priest complained that three times ninja gangs had trespassed on the parish church compound but when the police were summoned to give assistance they would not respond. This is the Church's clear evidence that the police and military are behind the ninja gang activities. Unlike Dili, no members of the ninja gangs in Suai have yet been caught and shown to be in the pay of the Indonesian authorities.

The point I make is that nothing has changed in Indonesia despite what has happened in Australia and Portugal, which we recognise as a start. We talk about the Santa Cruz massacres in 1991. It is now 1995 and nothing has changed. All the information from East Timor is to the effect that nothing has changed. There has been no improvement. The massacres continue and we as a State must do everything we can to highlight the situation.

I hope some of the proposals made by our delegates in Portugal will be actively dealt with by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and his Department.

Mr. Dardis

I thank the Senators who contributed to the debate, particularly those who put their names to the motion on an all-party basis. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Burton, for the tone of her speech and, in particular, the fact that she was unequivocal about the Irish Government's support for the Lisbon Declaration. An integral of the declaration is the action plan from Justice Kirby, and the Minister of State also endorsed that.

Senator Neville is right to say we are only at the start. Not a great deal has happened in 20 years to alleviate the suffering of the people of East Timor. With the freedoms we enjoy it is difficult for us to appreciate societies where those freedoms do not exist. The Leas-Chathaoirleach had to try to control proceedings in the House earlier this afternoon and, fortunately, we are not at a stage where somebody marches in to take a Member away. However, there are such societies and we are dealing with one of them in this case. We should have no illusions about that: they do not even begin to understand the meaning of democracy and the right to dissent.

When we commemorated the 50th anniversary of the Holocaust and the liberation of Auschwitz I made the point that people believed such events could not happen again but they are happening and East Timor is one of the places where it is happening. In relative terms the liquidation of 200,000 people is a holocaust. There are similar things happening Rwanda and Bosnia. Let us not deceive ourselves into thinking that society has advanced to the point where some of the events of history cannot recur.

I commend the motion to the House. An encouraging point that stayed with me was made in Lisbon by somebody who had experienced Portuguese dictatorship. They said that dictators do not survive. The encouraging message is that dictatorships do not last but people last and will, ultimately, prevail. It is our hope that will happen in this case.

With regard to Portugal's colonial past, the Portuguese Minister for Foreign Affairs acknowledged in Lisbon the sins of the past. Portugal's colonial past was in many ways more benign than some of the other colonial powers. Indonesia seized an opportunity to enter East Timor when Portugal was turning to democracy. It says much about the peaceable nature of the Timorese people that there were no more than a few policemen and a small presence to prevent the invasion.

With regard to Australia's role, I share the condemnation of the Australian Government. However, I would make a distinction between the position of the Australian Government and the position of members of the Australian Parliament and the Australian press; it has been distinct from the overall Australian position. Australian consciousness was severely jolted by the death of some of the journalists covering events in East Timor.

I am glad the declaration has been supported in its entirety, including the various aspects I mentioned. Senator Lanigan made a point about the authority we have as a parliament when we pass such resolutions. In the scale of international events it is not of great significance. However, when one considers there were 35 countries represented in Lisbon who are part of the international community, if their voices are raised together they must have some effect. The Secretary General of the United Nations is only as good as the authority given to him by the international community.

It is important we adopt this resolution. It has some authority and that is part of the authority which can be exercised by the international community. I commend the work of the East Timor-Ireland Solidarity Campaign. It has kept this matter to the forefront of Irish public opinion and has worked tirelessly without a great deal of resources to ensure we are conscious of what has happened in East Timor. We continue to highlight it and we will continue to try to do something concrete about it.

Question put and agreed to.

Sitting suspended at 5.55 p.m. and resumed at 6 p.m.

Seanad Éireann debate - Wednesday, 14 Jun 1995

East Timor Motion.

Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 Jun 1995