The Order of Business today is item 1, Second Stage of the Consumer Credit Bill, between now and 1 p.m., with not more than 20 minutes for each speaker by agreement. There will be a sos from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. and item 2 will be taken from 2 p.m. to 6 p.m.; item 17, motion 19, will be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.
Order of Business.
We mentioned the OECD report last week but we have encountered extreme difficulty in securing copies. Up to now we have not received any copies of the report.
On the day the House will deal with the Consumer Credit Bill, the Irish Press workers will again walk the streets of Dublin and there is also the strike at Dunnes Stores. The Leader is aware of our position in asking him to ensure that the Government does everything possible to help these situations. We wish to ensure that the Irish Press workers retain their jobs and that the strike in Dunnes Stores is resolved.
Will the Leader confirm or deny newspaper reports about promises with regard to the Wicklow by-election? Are they real promises, half promises or no promises at all?
A little bit of everything.
That is a question I would like to ask some Members on the Opposition benches with regard to real and half promises on issues. I wish to raise motion 20 on the Order Paper. It is an unusual motion on social welfare PRSI payments. I express my appreciation of the fact that the Leader placed it on the Order Paper. I recognise the significance of the motion being on the Order Paper and that many people would have objected to it. He is following a tradition set by his party in earlier times. It was my intention to propose——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I wish to point out that the Cathaoirleach decided whether the motion went on the Order Paper.
Grovelling apologies.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I accept, Senator.
That is the problem when one knows too much about the way things work. I offer grovelling apologies.
I also express my appreciation of the fact that my Independent colleagues, Senator Norris, Senator Henry and Senator Lee, and my PD colleagues, Senator Dardis and Senator Honan, also put their names to this motion. Fianna Fáil, obviously forgetting that it is in Opposition and still believing it is in Government, refused to support it. That refusal is, in effect, a vote by Fianna Fáil today to deduct 5 per cent from the salaries of all new gardaí, nurses, teachers and civil servants. It is a most invidious and divisive decision and a disgraceful abrogation of responsibility. We are now in a situation where the lack of action by Fianna Fáil in the House today——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We cannot discuss the matter.
I wish to place some matters on the record. This will save the time of the House in other ways.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We are on the Order of Business.
On the Order of Business, this matter should have been disposed of and dealt with fully today — the Leader of the House was prepared to have it dealt with today once it was placed on the Order Paper — because new teachers, gardaí, nurses and civil servants are now being required to pay——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We cannot discuss this matter.
——for an additional pension which they will never be allowed to claim. They are being required to save for a disability scheme from which they will never be entitled to claim.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
The Senator cannot discuss the content of the motion.
I am sure this is embarrassing for certain people but the fact is that the liaison between Government and Opposition today is effectively harming——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator, you may not discuss that matter on the Order of Business.
I am not discussing it. What has been an invidious, discriminatory and divisive approach to this matter——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
You may not discuss that matter on the Order of Business.
——has meant that all new teachers, gardaí, nurses and civil servants will lose out and this unholy alliance is certainly——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I must ask you to resume your seat, Senator.
I am determined to get a number of matters on——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
You cannot discuss this on the Order of Business.
It is daylight robbery of people who sought the support of Members of this House and were refused.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Has the Senator a question to the Leader of the House? We are dealing with the Order of Business.
Would the Leader again raise this matter, as I have asked him to do on a number of occasions over the last six months, with the Department of Finance so that this decision could be reversed? I recognise that this matter was not at any stage signalled or announced by this Government; it was suggested by a former Government. That is not a bad speech either and I am sure they are feeling uncomfortable about it.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator, you cannot discuss this matter on the Order of Business. Has the Senator a question to the Leader of the House?
Let me put on the record the fact that this is no more or less than daylight robbery of many people who do not have a voice at this time but who will not forget the way they have been mistreated today.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator, you have already put your views on the record of the House. You cannot proceed to discuss the matter. I ask you to resume your seat if you do not have a question for the Leader of the House.
There is no question that they did not get enough support on the matter. We have done a bad day's work today.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Have you a question for the Leader of the House?
No.
Can we at this stage live with a decision which is discriminatory against many people whose interests we are supposed to be looking after? In effect, we have sold out these people.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
You have made your point.
In support of what Senator Wright said in respect of the Dunnes Stores and Sunday trading issues, when does the Leader expect legislation on Sunday trading to come before us?
We should welcome the decision by Shell to abandon sinking the Brent Spar in the Atlantic Ocean and congratulate those who brought that matter to the attention of the public and individual Governments. Our Government might have been a little quicker off the mark in voicing our opposition to that proposal.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
A question please.
I hope I will not find myself having to make a grovelling apology to you, Sir, like Senator O'Toole. I ask the Leader to bring the unanimous voice of the House that was expressed here last week to the attention of the French Government in respect of nuclear testing in the Pacific Ocean, which is a far more serious matter environmentally, and to continue to bring pressure to have something done about Sellafield.
I wish to raise a matter with the Leader and to suggest that there are one of two ways with which it can be dealt, that is, by providing time for a short debate or by referring it to the appropriate Ministers. I have seen in a number of retail premises in recent days notices saying "No sterling accepted.". I have never seen a notice refusing dollars or other currency. We are at the beginning of what we hope will be a good tourist season and this is a most damaging exercise.
In addition, some retailers are charging a commission of 10 per cent for changing sterling. I changed sterling yesterday. The commission charge is a little over 3 per cent. Having accepted that money at the weekend, I was happy to give a discount to the UK customers who came to my establishment. This is a despicable practice that is damaging this country under three different headings: the tourism product, the peace process — because of the message that it conveys to the people across the Border — and the image of this nation to our nearest neighbours.
I ask the Leader to treat this as a very serious matter and to take action either under the headings I have suggested, to provide time for discussion in this House or to deal with the appropriate Ministers. Our media constantly jump on the shortcomings of society and their silence in relation to this issue has been deafening.
Crime in Dublin has got out of hand during the past number of weeks, and particularly in the last few nights, with BMWs and other cars being stolen and four to five premises being raided. When will the Minister for Justice come before the House to speak on this issue? I have repeatedly requested a discussion on the present crime wave and what is being done to stop it. I understand that rules have been introduced which prevent the Garda Síochána from following such cars, it was reported on the news this morning that the Garda had seen those stolen cars but were not in a position to follow them. It is very serious if criminals can run free, ignore the law and the authorities, raid premises and hold people to ransom. It is disgraceful. When will the Minister come before the House so that we might have a full debate on crime and what we can do about it? Members may have some positive solutions to offer. It is time something was done.
I welcome the decision of the Shell Oil Company not to scuttle the oil rig in the North Sea. People in County Donegal had major concerns about what could happen, when prevailing winds from that area might carry the radioactive material and sludge from the oil rig into the sea around the county. I welcome the Government's decision. I was amazed at how quickly the British Government and the Shell Oil Company reacted within 24 hours to that decision. Could we have a debate in this House on dumping at sea? Shell have a large number of oil rigs which they intend to dump. Would it be possible to have a short debate on the matter before the recess?
I support Senator Maloney. While we would like to congratulate Greenpeace, the people who orchestrated the campaign to prevent the oil rig being dumped at sea, this raises serious issues with regard to how the Government dealt with this issue. This would have been discussed at the International Convention on Dumping at Sea — to which Ireland is party — before permission was given to dump the vessel at sea. Could the Minister for Foreign Affairs, or the Minister responsible, give some indication how that decision was arrived at with the Irish Government being party to it? This is a fundamental issue and we should have an opportunity to discuss it.
The Minister for the Environment made a commitment that he would introduce measures to deal with the county road system which is breaking down at present. Local authorities are laying off staff because of the unavailability of finances to deal with this crisis. The Minister gave an indication that he was prepared to make a statement and provide additional finance for local authorities. When does he propose to do that?
I hope that what I am about to say it in order. I ask the House to note the great honour which was conferred last week, in the Queen's Birthday Honours List, on the Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of All Ireland, Dr. Robin Eames. He is one of the great men of modern Ireland. This honour will afford him an opportunity to walk the corridors of power in the Upper House, admittedly in another jurisdiction. Those of us who heard him make his submission, on behalf of his church, at the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation know him to be a great man. He will not let Ireland down. I welcome the opportunity afforded to him to do his best for the whole of Ireland.
When will it be possible to have a debate on motion No. 4? I fear that the value of such a debate will have passed the point of having an impact because this is the seventh time I have raised this matter. I do not mention that in a critical way since the Leader has been kind enough to acknowledge that this is a serious matter and he offered Government time to debate it. Now, close on two months later when a great deal of the impact has been lost, it is misleading to tell community groups to get organised and to avail of European funding. Community groups are now being encouraged to believe that funding is available.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
A question to the Leader.
I ask for far less latitude than you allow to some eloquent people in the House.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
That it unfair. I asked you to put a question to the Leader.
If, in fact, I am judged on my modesty——
Not like the majority of the Irish people.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I have asked the Senator to put a question to the Leader.
I would suggest that you do not judge the book by the cover on this occasion. I am asking for fair play, a Leas-Chathaoirleach, nothing more. As chairman of a cross-Border group, I have attended many meetings and it is clear that misleading information is going out to community groups. I have consistently asked for a debate in this House that might impart useful information.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We cannot discuss the matter unless you put a question to the Leader.
I am asking the Leader to take my request seriously, as I believe he will do. I cannot understand the difficulty because no business is more urgent than the dispersal of funds available to those who have suffered so much in the North and in the South over the last 25 years.
I wish to compliment the Shell Oil Company on making a very wise decision. I am glad of the support from my colleague Senator Maloney from Donegal. The Government came in pretty late because the business pressure from Europe was the major influence on Shell Oil's decision not to dump the rig. As a Donegal man I think Irish fisherman will welcome that sensible decision.
To follow up on the last point, I would ask the Leader to ensure that the decision made by Shell is carried through. There has been no indication yet from the British Government that a licence will be issued to them to dismantle that particular rig. I would like to know what is the situation. If the British Government do not give a licence, do they tow it around the world trying to find a place to dump it? There are huge implications if the British Government does not grant the licence.
Should we decide to have a regular Committee on Procedure and Privileges subcommittee meeting and follow the example of the Leinster council by having trial by television? We might then find out what is a question and what is a speech on the Order of Business.
I wish to raise this important issue on a point of order. There is nothing in the Standing Orders of this House nor in the Constitution which rules out a speech on the Order of Business. On one occasion a previous Leader of the House, Professor Jim Dooge, made a 45-minute contribution on the Order of Business to point out that particular fact. As long as a speech is on a matter related to the Order of Business it is acceptable.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
That is not a point of order, with all due respects.
Two speeches.
I believe that my case for a Committee on Procedure and Privileges sub-committee meeting regularly has been strengthened.
May I ask the Leader to pass our compliments to the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs regarding his attitude during his visit to the Middle East? He did not bow down to pressure from President Weizman of Israel and he visited Orient House. The peace process in the Middle East has to be progressed. Any obstacles placed by people such as President Weizman should be eliminated.
I agree with Senator Lanigan that it was important that the Tánaiste visited Orient House to meet Mr. Faisal Husseini.
In light of the considerable interest expressed on all sides of the House in the Shell oil matter, I ask the Leader for a general debate on the environment before the close of this session. There are many issues involved. I respectfully disagree with my friend and colleage, Senator Maloney — the British Government does not seem to have changed its view and its attitude was not influenced in the slightest by the views of the Irish Government. The most significant feature of this issue was that, like the Vietnam protests, it involved the mobilisation of mass public opinion throughout Europe which hit Shell where it hurts most, in its trade balance. This shows people power in action and I hope we see a good deal more of it.
The British Government have continued to behave disgracefully.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
A question for the Leader, please.
It shamefully concealed and lied about scientific information which stated the rig should not be dumped. Now British Government members are acting like spoiled noisy brats who have been caught misbehaving themselves——
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We are not discussing the matter. I ask you to put a question to the Leader.
——by refusing to allow Shell to dump the rig. It is rather interesting that the British do not want it in their own back yard but are prepared to put it in ours. I ask for a general debate on the environment to discuss that issue, and also the attitude of the French Government which says it is perfectly safe to explode atomic bombs. If it is so safe, why not explode one in a basement of the Louvre to test its safety before inflicting it on the unfortunate people of the south Pacific?
I congratulate two Government Ministers. The first is the Minister of State, Deputy Burton, who gave an excellent and positive response to the case of the Shackleton garden. I wish her and her Department well. I also congratulate the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Michael Higgins, who was rather unfairly castigated in this House last week.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
A question to the Leader, please.
His actions on the matter in Leitrim were appropriate, correct and apt for a Government Minister. I take the opportunity provided by the Leader to congratulate him.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
That is not relevant to today's Order of Business. Has the Senator a question to the Leader?
I have asked it, in a rather long winded way. I also have two further questions. Could the Leader find some machinery whereby this House could support an Irish mother whose son was murdered in France, apparently by a paratrooper, and who has been frustrated by the obfuscations of the French legal system? This woman deserves every support this House can give her.
Finally, I add my voice to that of my distinguished colleague, Senator O'Toole, on the PRSI issue. I was lobbied extensively on this matter by the Senator's union, INTO and a number of graduates. This is an important issue which affects not only teachers but people entering the Army, the Garda, etc.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
We are not discussing the matter, Senator.
My question to the Leader is that since this is a vital matter, affecting a large number of our constituents, is it possible to find machinery whereby this can be properly brought before the House and Fianna Fáil shamed into supporting it?
A Leas-Chathaoirligh, I rise to commend you on your latitude. If it means something to put matters on the record of the House, while one recognises the authentic voice of the Government on the Brent Spar issue, one must also acknowledge the courageous record of Greenpeace, which had the effect of creating public opinion.
I ask the Leader if something can be done about the point raised by Senator Howard. In my town of Mallow, I was advised by a visitor that his currency was refused in a shop two days ago. This is disastrous and I ask the Leader to investigate the matter.
The Leader will be aware that the Government made a commitment to bring forward legislation to amend the law on defamation. This could help the national newspaper industry. Perhaps the Leader could tell us what progress, if any, is being made by the Government as regards the law on defamation. Would he consider introducing such legislation in this House because that Bill would require a broad ranging and philosophical debate on defamation?
I support Senator Wilson in his congratulations to Archbishop Robin Eames. We all agree he has been a great person for Ireland and we hope that will continue in his new role.
Perhaps the Leader could tell us when the Government will pay compensation to people affected by flooding throughout the country, particularly in south Galway. It will soon be the last week of June, but as yet not one penny has been paid to householders whose homes have been affected. Many people have not returned to their homes since last January. This is happening despite the promises given in the House by the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Jim Higgins, that his use of the Irish Red Cross would be a fast and efficient way to make emergency payments to these people. It is disgraceful that nobody has yet received a penny from the Government. This cannot be allowed to continue; therefore, I ask when this money will be paid.
Last week on the Order of Business the dispute between the veterinary profession and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry over the bovine TB eradication scheme was mentioned by many Senators. On that occasion, I asked if arrangements could be made for a debate on this issue. We should have a debate on agriculture because it faces many problems at present, including the collapse of the farm pollution scheme and the decline in sheep farmers' incomes. Recently I met many sheep farmers who are worried and concerned about this issue. They feel let down by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry and the Taoiseach. Their incomes are now at an all time low.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I ask the Senator to please put a question to the Leader.
I would like a debate on agriculture to discuss these matters and it might also help the Minister to finalise the membership of An Bord Bia.
I ask the Leader if he knows when the broadcasting control committee will meet. I raised this issue last week and the Leader indicated in his reply that he would follow it up. This committee was formed at the beginning of the year, but it has not yet met. Several Members have mentioned that it is past time for it to meet. Some weeks ago I asked the Leader to make time available for a debate on emigration and he agreed to do so. We are coming close to the end of the session, but I do not want this matter to slip down the Order Paper. I again ask the Leader for a debate on this issue.
I ask the Leader to convey the thanks of the people of County Leitrim to the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, Deputy M. Higgins, for his concession last week. Senator Norris's sweeping contribution on the Order of Business means that the people of County Leitrim, the South Seas, France, Donegal and Palestine can now sleep safely in their beds because he is looking after their interests.
In view of the many promises made by this Government about local authority funding, particularly for county roads, and the publication of the local authority water charges Bill, which ensures that Democratic Left will not be embarrassed in Government, is this not the right time for the House to debate the problems caused by lack of funding at local authority level? Library services are being reduced and roads are disappearing because of lack of funding. I ask the Leader to ensure that we have a debate on local authority funding. The new Bill on local service charges will make it very difficult for local authorities to collect the few pounds that are available to them from the local communities. Will the Leader arrange for the Minister for the Environment to attend the House and state from where the local authorities are to receive their funding?
To which leader is the Senator referring?
Senator Sherlock is now in Government. He must take responsibility. He cannot hide any more; indeed, there is no hiding any more for Democratic Left.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator Kelleher without interruption.
In view of the fact that many county roads are in a disgraceful state and many local authority services have been reduced to substandard levels, will the Minister for the Environment attend the House to explain how he now proposes to fund local authorities?
The Leader of the Opposition asked about the OECD report. I asked the Department of Finance to provide copies for all Members and was assured that this would be done; I am told that it is now being done. I made further inquiries on the matter this morning, and I apologise for the delay.
The Leader of the Opposition also raised the issue of the Irish Press and Dunnes Stores. I do not believe there is anything very helpful we can do on the question of Dunnes Stores. That battle is being fought elsewhere. Over the last few days we wondered if Dunnes Stores and the Shell Oil Company had the same public relations people working for them, such was the impact they made on public opinion. It is a matter on which we cannot usefully help.
With regard to the Irish Press, there were some more positive signs in the last few days. On foot of requests from Senator Cassidy, I asked the Minister if we could have a debate in the near future and I should have information on that later today.
The answer to Senator O'Toole's question is yes. Senator Dardis and others raised the question of the Shell Oil Company. Any fair minded person must accept that the major impact in forcing the Shell Oil Company to change its mind came from Greenpeace and the mobilisation of public opinion, especially where it hit. The Government made its view known very strongly, but we would be fooling ourselves if we thought that any small government would have a major impact on a matter like this. In this instance, the impact came from public opinion.
Senator Dardis raised the issue of the French nuclear testing programme. The record of the debate last week will be sent to the French Embassy to convey Members, views.
Senator Howard's question regarding sterling raises a disturbing point. There will be a major tourism Bill in the House next week when the Minister will be in attendance. This will give the Senator and other Members every opportunity to put their point of view to the Minister and to get answers. With regard to Senator Farrell's question, there will be a debate this evening which will include the issue of crime. Other Senators raised the matter of county roads; Senator Daly has raised it on more than one occasion. I have conveyed his concern to the relevant authority and will continue to do so. Hopefully I will be able to bring the Senator more popular news in the near future.
Senator Wilson mentioned the honour conferred on the Archbishop of Armagh. All of us join in congratulating him. The Archbishop, Cardinal Daly and other Church leaders, are among the most significant players in helping along the peace process. It will be very useful that he will now have another voice in another House of Parliament where his sanity, tolerance and sense of genuine reconciliation will, hopefully, continue to make an even greater impact.
As he remarked, Senator McGowan has raised his point on 14 occasions thus far. I can assure the Senator that there will be a debate on this issue before the end of the session. I hope to have it next week, but that is not a guarantee.
Senator Lanigan raised the question of the Leinster Council of the GAA; I am not sure if it was raised in a substantive way or to illustrate a point. The matter was handled in a mature way and with great common sense. People, were prepared to admit they were wrong and a very good team will be given a second chance next week to prove that it is an even better team.
I will also convey the Senators' remarks to the Tánaiste complimenting him on the way in which he carried out his public duties in the Middle East.
The question of defamation was raised by Senator Mulcahy. There was a major debate on that here about a year or so ago. I will speak to the Minister and, if it is of any help, we will see whether it can be done again. I doubt whether it will be done this session. I will convey Senator Fahey's views to the Minister and see whether I can get some hard information for him in the next couple of days on the question of compensation for flooding.
I will have news for Senator Mooney later today on the broadcasting control committee. I cannot guarantee a debate on emigration before the end of the session as there is a lot of legislation, but I will do my best to see if it can be done. Likewise, I will convey to the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Howlin, Senator Kelleher's concerns on local authority funding.
Order of Business agreed to.