Section 2 deals with the power of the board to contract out its inspection and associated functions. The board is Bord Fáilte and letters have been circulating that the Town and Country Homes Association is more than likely the body with which the board will enter into a contract. There are charges to register with Bord Fáilte. When dealing with the power of the board, will the board or the Minister have the power to monitor the charges?
Tourist Traffic Bill, 1995: Committee and Final Stages.
Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."
The other day I spoke to a person in County Kerry who owns a three or four bedroom house and who is involved in the tourism industry. He said it was becoming more expensive each year to be part of that industry. For example, because he is registered with Bord Fáilte, he must pay approximately £300 water charges, which is different from other counties. Ordinary water charges are approximately £60, but because he is registered with Bord Fáilte he must pay £300. My own bill is only a few pounds short of £300, which is a high charge. In addition, guest-houses also pay high refuse charges. The person to whom I spoke had to pay almost £3,000 before he opened his door to guests. This is a lot of money to pay at the beginning of the year. One must also pay Bord Fáilte approximately £300 to be included in Town and Country Homes Association. Will the Minister or Bord Fáilte — I would prefer the Minister to do this — monitor these charges in case they get out of hand?
The Minister said he will inspect the criteria for various categories, particularly the intoxicating liquor licences for restaurants. Under the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 1988, an establishment must have space for 50 people, apart from the restaurant, and toilet facilities. Few hotels and pubs have such accommodation unless they are very big. The playing pitch is not level in this regard.
Many people, particularly those on bus tours, have a good breakfast, but they like a snack in the middle of the day and a big meal in their hotel at night. Others like a sandwich and a glass of beer. Restaurants which have a wine licence can give people a glass of wine, but they cannot give them a glass of beer. Most restaurants do not want a full licence because it causes too much trouble. I know what it is like to work in a bar. As an old bar man once said to me, one would think they were drinking sauce. Restaurants now supply Kaliber, which is a non-intoxicating drink. Licences should include beer and wine. This would not affect the pub business, but it would help small restaurants who cater for bus loads of tourists, and they provide employment. We seem to gear everything towards big business. Visitors do not come to Ireland for the weather but to meet people. That is why they like to stop in small villages in rural areas where they can meet the local people and go into local pubs.
I am glad the Minister is setting up a new agency because it is difficult to know what Bord Fáilte is doing. Perhaps he could clarify when he will examine the criteria and amend this legislation to level the playing pitch because every pub now serves food and restaurants are suffering. This is unfair competition. I am not advocating a full licence for restaurants but they should be able to sell beer and wine.
As regards the provision to allow contractors to carry out inspections, perhaps the Minister could allay our concerns that this is a brain-wave of former Bord Fáilte employees who now see themselves in a new role. People are concerned that this is another tier of bureaucracy which is controlled by former Bord Fáilte employees.
Although we are dealing with contractors and the responsibilities and duties which Bord Fáilte will extend to them, I want to comment on what Senator Farrell said. When the Intoxicating Liquor Act, 1988, was going through the House we discussed how licences could be given to restaurants. If we accept what Senator Farrell advocated, every chip shop and fast food outlet in the country will be given a licence. I do not agree with his views and I urge the Minister and the Government to exercise extreme caution in this regard. The liquor licensing laws will always be reviewed — I am sure a review will take place in the near future — but we must ensure that liquor licences are not granted to every food outlet.
We are dealing with section 2 and the responsibilities and duties of contractors. A number of Senators mentioned unapproved accommodation. I compliment the Minister for his sensible attitude in this regard. Some years ago I was an opponent of the unapproved accommodation sector, but I now believe it fills a niche. The argument against unapproved accommodation was made when there was a problem filling rooms in the approved sector. There is a view that the unapproved sector provides competition for the approved sector. It would be more valid — this is what the Minister is saying — for us to examine the reasons the unapproved sector wishes to remain unregistered. It is not rates, which they all must pay, or VAT — approved and unapproved accommodation are often below the VAT threshold — which keeps them from applying for registration. Encouragement, rather than compulsion, should be used.
In 1993, I toured the south-west and south-east of the country with some young members of my family and I deliberately stayed in unapproved accommodation. It was clean, the food was good and I received outstanding hospitality from the people who welcomed me and my children into their homes. In every case I was offered inspection of the rooms before I accepted them.
It is not a valid argument to state that substandard accommodation is being offered. I stayed in unapproved accommodation during many Seanad campaigns and I was often very glad to find it at midnight. This happened in Senator Farrelly's county and there was a slight contradiction in his contribution. He said that, on the one hand, the Minister should make funds available to encourage the creation of more accommodation in County Meath but, on the other, he wanted some of the accommodation which already exists closed down.
The provision of accommodation, whether approved or unapproved, represents a certain element of enterprise. It is wrong, in terms of the economic conditions which pertain in the society in which we live, to take a line which is anti enterprise. In many cases, it provides useful funds and a side income for the woman of the house and we should recognise this fact. I hope and believe the Minister will ensure that the regulations are not used to reduce the availability of accommodation, but rather to examine why the unapproved sector remains apart. This should be done in a co-operative way and the Minister should encourage them to come in rather than attempt compulsion.
Senator Fitzgerald raised the issue of the contractor and the licence fees. It is important to understand that the change being effected in the Bill will give Bord Fáilte the right to subcontract out the inspections for grading and classification of accommodation. This will be subcontracted out, for which a full contract will be drawn up. This will include the right of Bord Fáilte to set the fees in that regard and the contractor to collect them. It will also include a yearly review for non-performance, which would come into play if the board felt that the contractor appointed for registration of grading was not performing properly.
Regarding non-registered tourist accommodation on the services side, I and the board recently recognised the Town and Country Homes Association and the Irish Farm Holidays Association. This was in the context of these organisations as approving bodies for the Irish homes sector and awarding the shamrock symbol. The extra charges mentioned by the Senator in respect of water charges, etc., are a matter for the local authority. As the Senator is aware, a waiver system exists. The change involves giving the board the right to subcontract the registration of accommodation to a contractor. I recently recognised the two other bodies which will do their own work in respect of guesthouses and farm holidays.
Senator Farrell mentioned the beer and wine licence. No change in the liquor licensing laws is envisaged in this legislation and any change brought about in this area is essentially a matter for the Minister for Justice. However, I will bring to her attention the points raised, although Senator Howard is correct in the context of the 1988 debate when he said that it could end up with every food dispensing outlet having a beer and wine licence.
Senator McGowan mentioned a new role for former Bord Fáilte employees. The tender system in this instance was open. It was operated strictly in accordance with the European Union regulations and was published in the European magazine. I was liable to receive applications for tender from any of the EU countries. I decided to award the contract, based on a recommendation of the steering committee, to TQS for its strong commercial basis, quality approach and experience in dealing with this matter.
During the Second Stage debate in the Dáil, Deputy Andrews specifically mentioned a situation where former employees of the board would have accepted voluntary severance payments and then find themselves in charge of this registration and grading position. That is not the case. The contractor, TQS, with whom the details will be drawn up, will employ quality and experienced Irish personnel. My responsibility is to ensure the system operates efficiently, in an accountable way and above board, and that a highly efficient and professional service is given. I intend to ensure this is the case.
Question put and agreed to.
Sections 3 to 8, inclusive, agreed to.
SECTION 9.
Question proposed: "That section 9 stand part of the Bill."
On Second Stage I mentioned that £22 million is a huge amount of money for signposting and tourist information offices. If this type of money was made available every year, there would be a tourist information office in every little village in Ireland. What else is done with the money? Are grants paid to people in the tourism industry? I made the point earlier that things might be fine in Killarney and Dingle in County Kerry but not so good elsewhere.
I also made the point when we were in Government that pilot areas should be chosen and an incentive given to people in different parts of Ireland to promote tourism. This should not just involve the western seaboard but the midland counties as well — Carlow, Kilkenny and Tipperary — where a small village or area could be given money as an incentive to start projects. Could the Minister specifically explain how the £22 million is being used? It seems a massive amount of money for signposting and tourist information offices. I am confused about where it is going.
The Senator referred to tourist information offices. I sometimes think that if one stopped and asked for directions in any part of rural Ireland, every house would be a tourist information office.
The Minister is correct.
People like to know all about the visitor, where he comes from, for whom he is looking and where he is going. Without any expenditure, there are literally thousands of tourist information offices. However, this money does not refer to expenditure under this Bill. It is an enabling provision only to allow Bord Fáilte to extend its limit from £18 million to £22 million. This sum has existed since Bord Fáilte was founded and the actual expenditure each year is approximately £0.5 million, not £22 million. The purpose is to extend the board's limit to spend this on an ongoing basis. The figure of £1.5 million for the brown tourist signposting is contained in the operational programme over the five years. The £22 million does not mean that sum is now available for tourist offices, although I wish that were the case. It is just to extend the limit to which Bord Fáilte can go by a further £4 million. I can get details for the Senator of how the money has been spent if he wishes.
No, the Minister gave a very satisfactory answer.
Is the Minister satisfied with the amount of money available to bring the industry up to a standard that he would like to see? People in this industry pay VAT and taxes on the products they use; and they pay rent, rates, VAT and PRSI on the number of people they employ. This industry is getting far less funding than other industries and the Department is not rescuing certain parts of it, unlike Team Aer Lingus and the many other bodies that are too numerous to mention which the Government is rescuing by paying out millions of pounds every second day. In light of the tremendous value this industry gives to the Revenue, is the Minister satisfied that anything like enough funding has been made available for the total development of the tourist industry?
One never can have enough to spend on this or on any other industry. However, I am happy to say that it is one of the few areas where everybody, and the Government in particular, recognises its potential. I outlined on Second Stage that the operational programme envisages an expenditure of £650 million between now and the end of 1999 providing tourism related facilities and products and there will be EU grant assistance of £320 million. Bord Fáilte gets approximately £22 million for its own activities and promotion. Over and above that, there is the involvement of the private sector with the public sector in the Overseas Tourism Marketing Initiative, which this year comes to £6.3 million. From that point of view, together with the private and group organisational promotions a large amount of money is being pumped into this industry. This amount could be doubled and it still would not be enough; these are huge figures. We can do the job, meet the targets and attain the objectives we have set with this amount.
I am trying to encourage tourism commentators to put this industry on the business pages. It is not a gossip business but a competitive business. In that sense we should make the industry and all associated with it understand that it is now the third largest industry in this country, and it is growing. This money has to be used wisely and well and if it is, we will achieve these targets. If there are 120,000 people actively and permanently employed in the tourism business in five years time, they will know on what side their bread is buttered. They are highly motivated people who are giving a quality service and product and we cannot ask for any more than that.
I attended the tourism promotion fair in Berlin earlier this year. There were 5,600 stands there, many of them half the size of a football pitch. Phenomenal amounts of money were being pumped into this fair. Ireland has its own stand for which we paid a sizeable amount of money. The building in which this fair took place would be about 26 times the size of the RDS. Phenomenal amounts of money had been pumped into the promotion of countries all over the world. In that context, we are a small player but the Department has a sizeable amount of money with which to work.
We also have — and the President has referred to them as the Irish Diaspora — 70 million Irish people all over the world. We will also be sensitively commemorating the 150th anniversary of the Famine. There is no reason people of Irish descent should not come to Ireland at least once before the end of the century to see the old country, as Senator Fitzgerald called it, and see how we have been transformed from a hovel ridden country to a modern, energetic and dynamic young country heading into the 21st century.
The targets we have set can be achieved. Tourism is a competitive business. I want it presented in an efficient and professional sense and I want everybody associated with it to know that quality and high standards are the hallmarks of the Irish tourism industry.
I welcome the Minister and congratulate him for his efforts in what is a difficult business internationally. On the more domestic front, I wish to raise the matter of the regions in our State. The west, the south-east, the south, County Donegal and Dublin city are traditional tourism areas. The midland region has been bypassed over the years when it came to promoting it as a tourism region. Tourists only pass through on their way to some other area. There has been an uplift in activity as regards promoting tourism in the midlands, but the area could now be packaged as a region.
The relevance of this to section 9 is a little tenuous. You are getting a fair amount of latitude, Senator.
In the south-west region a few years ago, a county which shall remain nameless declared a UDI in the matter of tourism promotion, the reason being dissatisfaction with a regional tourism body. It is the same for the part of the county which I represent. Bord Fáilte and the regional tourism bodies are present but outside certain well established areas, tourism is not a runner. The reason I made this contribution is to ensure that areas with local committees will get recognition from the regional tourist boards. If one is to give real effect to the programme for tourism, each area has to benefit and must be encouraged to organise its own resources.
I agree fully with Senator Sherlock and I discussed this matter with him previously. The intention is to have as many visitors go to as many and as diverse areas as possible. There is a growing awareness within each community that while they might not have been traditionally regarded as a strong tourist base, every area has its own attractions, be they historical, archaeological or cultural. It does require some leadership for the community to sit down and address how best this might be presented and marketed and in that context, assistance is available. I share Senator Sherlock's views on this matter.
Question put and agreed to.
Section 10 agreed to.
Schedule agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."
Acting Chairman
I thank the Minister for his conduct of the Bill through the House. I wish him well with the legislation and with his portfolio.
I support the Chairman's remarks concerning the Minister, who is to be complimented on his effective performance. He is obviously on top of his brief. I took particular notice of his responses to different queries, many of which were made without the use of notes. His comments in relation to his area of responsibility indicate that he has a strong interest in it. He dealt adequately with the many points raised and his responses were encouraging. I know that the Minister will keep in mind matters that were raised but which he may not have felt free to refer to directly.
This Bill deals with only a small part of the whole tourist industry. It is just the start, dealing with two parts, that will take us further along the road. The Minister should return to the House after the summer recess for a full discussion on and assessment of how this year has gone. I compliment the Minister — he is a likeable person and an ideal ambassador for the job — on what he has done and the manner in which he has done it. Following his performance on television in the United States I would feel safe in leaving him to act in any part of the world as my ambassador and Minister for Tourism and Trade. There are a few others, however, whom I would not leave too far out of the country at all.
Acting Chairman
I take it that it would be your intention that he would return.
I thank Senators for their courtesy as well as for taking time off from their onerous duties to make these heartfelt and valued contributions. The Senators have a range of experience and knowledge that is of benefit to us all. I feel it is necessary to make important announcements in the Houses of the Oireachtas, although I was not in a position to announce the registration and grading contractor to the Dáil because the decision had not then been made. Nor was I able to announce to the Dáil the fact that Bord Fáilte would retain the assessment of the European Regional Development Fund grants position. Despite being asked questions about this over the last few days, I felt it was important that the announcement should be made to one of the Houses of the Oireachtas. Thus it was appropriate that it should have been made in the Seanad today.
I thank you, Chairman, for your courtesy and I thank Senators for their contributions. We are all involved in building a quality tourism product which will generate strength in our economy and provide jobs for our young people in the years ahead.
Acting Chairman
I acknowledge and appreciate the fact that the Minister made those announcements in the House.
Question put and agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 4.15 p.m. and resumed at 6 p.m.