I move:
That Seanad Éireann approves of the following Regulations in draft:
Local Elections Regulations, 1995,
a copy of which Regulations in draft form was laid before Seanad Éireann on 22nd day of September 1995.
Local Elections Regulations, 1995: Motion.
The draft regulations are laid before the Seanad in accordance with section 22 (5) of the Local Government Act, 1994, which provides that where regulations under that section are proposed to be made, a draft thereof shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas and the regulations shall not be made until a resolution approving of the draft has been passed by each House.
The purpose of the draft regulations is to update and consolidate, with necessary amendments, the detailed rules for the conduct of local elections. The regulations constitute part of the ongoing programme of electoral law reform. The programme began with the enactment of the Electoral Act, 1992, which consolidated the law in relation to the conduct of Dáil elections and the registration of electors. The Presidential Elections Act, 1993, and the Referendum Act, 1994, continued the process in relation to the codes dealing with presidential elections and referenda.
Overall, the objective of the programme is to bring the various branches of the electoral law into the last decade of the 20th century and I am happy to record that substantial progress has been made in that regard. I am aware that Senators are anxious that the law relating to the election of university Members should be examined with a view to a significant widening of the franchise and any consequential adjustment in the allocation of university seats.
An additional component in the elected membership of the Seanad may be anticipated in the near future. I refer, of course, to the representation of emigrants. Arising from a commitment in the policy agreement, A Government of Renewal, the Government has decided to sponsor a Constitution Amendment Bill to provide for the election of three Members of the Seanad by Irish emigrants. The intention is that overall membership will remain at 60 and that the new Members will be in substitution for three of the 11 Members who, under existing constitutional provisions, are nominated by the Taoiseach.
It is intended that the text of the proposed constitutional amendment on this matter will be published in the course of the next few months. The Minister will at the same time publish an outline of the proposals for implementing legislation which will be brought forward in the event of the amendment being approved by the people. The outline will deal with matters such as the franchise for emigrant elections, the registration of those electors, nomination of candidates, the conduct of the elections and the filling of casual vacancies. It is intended that the outline will be referred to this House for consideration in advance of the referendum on the matter.
As I have indicated, the present programme of electoral reform commenced with the Electoral Act, 1992. The Bill for that Act was, of course, introduced in this House and was given a very thorough and searching debate, many important and far reaching amendments being brought forward. I would like to tell Senators that an extensive list of suggestions for improvement in electoral law and procedures, including suggestions made in the course of the debates in the Seanad on the 1992 Bill, was referred by the Minister some months ago for consideration by the Dáil Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs. The committee has agreed to consider the matters referred to them and we look forward with interest to receiving their report.
The draft regulations propose to consolidate, with necessary amendments, the detailed rules for the conduct of local elections and to harmonise those rules as far as practicable with the corresponding rules relating to Dáil elections which were themselves updated and consolidated in the 1992 Act.
The principal change of substance provided for in the regulations is an increase in the amount of the deposit required of candidates at local elections. Under existing regulations the deposit is £10 in the case of elections to the council of a county or county borough and £5 in the case of elections to other local authorities, that is, borough and urban district councils and town commissions. These levels were set 30 years ago by the Local Elections Regulations, 1965. I understand that the current equivalent value of £10 and £5 in 1965 would be approximately £110 and £55 respectively. It is not proposed to increase the levels of the deposit to take account of the full changes in the value of money over the past 30 years. Instead, the regulations provide for the more modest levels of £50 and £25 and I think that gets the balance just about right. To offset the impact of the proposed increase in the deposit levels, the threshold for the refund of the deposit is reduced from one-third to one-quarter of the quota. This follows the precedent set in relation to Dáil elections in the 1992 Act. The question of deposit at elections is one of the matters the Minister has referred to the Select Committee.
The draft regulations allow the returning officers greater flexibility in relation to the time for counting votes. Under existing regulations, the count may not begin until 9 a.m. on the day after polling day and counting between the hours of 11 p.m. and 9 a.m. may only take place with the agreement of the candidates. The draft regulations provide that counting for every local authority must begin not later than 9 a.m. on the day after polling day, leaving open the possibility of an earlier start where this is considered appropriate.
In addition, the regulations provide that the returning officer must proceed continuously, so far as practicable, with the counting of votes except during time for necessary rest and refreshment. The regulations will not affect the practice which obtains in some local authorities where counting for individual local electoral areas may commence at different times. The loosening up of the time requirements in relation to vote counting is part of a process, including the development of appropriate computer programmes which we hope will lead to earlier results at election counts.
The penalties for offences at local elections will be increased to the same levels as those applying to offences at a Dáil election. The existing penalties, which were set in 1965, are considerably lower than those under the other electoral codes, and it is appropriate that they should be updated in the new regulations.
The present law in relation to local elections is contained in a number of statues beginning with the Electoral Act, 1963, and in statutory instruments, the principal of which is the Local Elections Regulations, 1965. The primary legislation in relation to local elections was restated in amended and updated form in Part III of the Local Government Act, 1994. That Part provides the enabling power for making the present regulations and, once those regulations are in place, the way will be cleared for the repeal of the existing statues and statutory instruments.
The chapter in the 1965 regulations dealing with meetings and terms of office of local authorities is not reproduced in the draft regulations. This is because it is more appropriate that the matters, which are not strictly electoral, should be dealt with in primary legislation rather than in regulations. The matters are now dealt with in Parts II and V of the Local Government Act, 1994.
While the purpose of the regulations is to update, consolidate and harmonise the local election rules, the need to bring forward the regulations at this time arises from the necessity to implement the European Union Directive on the right to vote and stand at local elections for citizens of the Union residing in a member state of which they are not nationals. This right was provided for in the Maastricht Treaty under which every citizen of the Union residing in a member state of which he or she is not a national shall have the right to vote and stand as a candidate at municipal elections in the member state in which he or she resides, under the same conditions as nationals of that state. The treaty provided that the exercise of this right would be subject to detailed arrangements to be adopted by the Council. The detailed arrangements referred to are set out in a Council Directive made on 19 December 1994 which requires that any necessary consequential changes in domestic law should be effected before 1 January 1996.
We can take some satisfaction in the fact that, in the matter of the right to vote and stand at local elections, we are well ahead of other member states. For decades before Maastricht, our local election law has been more liberal than anything envisaged in the treaty. The right to vote at local elections in this country was extended to all residents, irrespective of nationality and citizenship, in 1963 and the citizenship requirement for candidates at local elections was repealed in 1974.
Implementation of the European requirements does not, therefore, demand any substantive change in our local electoral law. However, a technical change to give full effect to the directive is required and is provided for in Article 120 of the draft regulations. In that article, the Minister for the Environment is assigned the function of certifying that Irish citizens wishing to stand at a local election in another member state are not disqualified under our law from standing at local elections in this country.
The draft regulations are part of a programme to modernise our electoral law and make it more relevant and accessible. I believe the process is worthwhile and I am confident that Senators share my view in this regard and will support this motion.
I thank the Minister for his clear explanation of what is contained in these draft regulations. I assure him that we will not oppose these moves to modernise and streamline the complex regulations governing elections. The regulations will give effect to a European Union Directive on the right to vote and stand at local elections for European Union citizens residing in a member state of which they are not nationals. The rights were provided for in the Maastricht Treaty and the arrangements are set out in the Council Directive made on 19 December 1994 which requires that changes be made in the member states and should be effected before 1 January 1996.
Although the implementation of that Directive does not necessitate any major changes in our local electoral laws, the Minister was wise to use this opportunity to make some desirable changes. The existing law as regards local elections in the Electoral Act, 1963, and the 1965 regulations keep us well ahead and abreast of developments in the European Union. The 1994 Act enables these regulations to be made and will bring them into line with the Dáil regulations made in the 1992 Act.
While I do not approve of deposits in local elections, rates have been low and the proposed amounts of £50 and £25 are not unduly excessive. The draft regulations make provision for flexibility in the timeframe for counting votes. This is timely given the long delays in counts which have frustrated people in the past. This new arrangement will give more flexibility to returning officers and should help speed up counts so they can be completed more quickly. The provision that surnames will be printed in larger print on ballot papers will make them more user friendly; I hope people will be able to find our names. They are modest proposals to which we have no major objection.
I am not sure that the provision for non nationals to stand at local elections will be widely used. Nevertheless, this provision will draw attention to the necessity for closer liaison between Europe and the regions. The European Union should become more interested in local issues. There should be more communication between local elected representatives and the European Union institutions. For many years towns have had twinning arrangements under local government direction and successful links have been forged between many towns and regions. However, these links tended to fade out after a number of years and the twinning arrangement has not been very successful in bringing people in the towns together. With some exceptions, that concept has not been fully developed. Perhaps, in the review of local government reform the Minister should take the opportunity to look at the whole procedure of town twinning arrangements to see whether it might be desirable to institute reform which would allow greater participation.
I also ask the Minister of State to look at the local government electoral Acts in the context of the Committee of the Regions, which was recently established and whose membership is by nomination. We should make some provision to have the committee elected democratically as these are key positions. Perhaps the review body would look into this. The committee and local elections could be held simultaneously. There is a genuine feeling in many regions that, in spite of the promises for strong regional authorities, they do not have the statutory authority to do what needs to be done and they do not have an effective input into decision making in Brussels. The Minister of State will know from experience dealing with the Commission that it is difficult enough, even for a Minister, to do business there. In the regions there is a general feeling of having been neglected, that the people do not have access to the institutions of the Union. In some respects, it is time we looked into this.
The regulations governing the conduct of elections on polling day so far as general elections are concerned have gone too far. While no one condones the intimidation or harassment of people going to the polls, the strict regulations which were introduced have removed the exciting and mainly enjoyable element of electioneering from polling day and the events surrounding polling day.
My first interest in local elections started around polling day at the national school. At that time the national school was near my house and the activity, campaigning, electioneering, propaganda and the whole ethos which surrounded voting day gave me the interest in elections which probably brought me here. This sense of excitement is sadly missing now.
The general comments at polling stations during the last elections, when these new regulations came into effect, were that it was almost like a visit to the morgue. It was so quiet, there was no excitement or interest in the elections, this is what we should be endeavouring to do. We are speaking against the background of the fall off in the number of people voting, the lack of interest of many young people in the election process and the lack of knowledge of the election process generally. If we are to create an awareness, especially among young people, of the importance of elections, of going out to vote and all that goes with it, surely the place to start would be the polling station on election days. If we turn the polling stations into a place like a hospital, it will diminish the chances of creating a far greater awareness of elections, the purpose of elections and the activity which goes with them.
There may have been cases of intimidation of people on their way to vote but these were exceptions. By and large, polling days were always enjoyable occasions when the public had an opportunity to meet their representatives and, perhaps, influence people before they voted. It is time these regulations were examined again. We might, without being too flexible, introduce some amendments to those regulations which would make polling day like the polling days the Cathaoirleach and I remember.
It is sad that we are talking about local elections, general elections and presidential elections on the day following the death of the late Deputy Neil Blaney, who was probably one of the greatest organisers of elections. His campaigning abilities were renowned. I take this opportunity to express our deepest sympathy to the relatives and family of the late Neil Blaney.
Overall, these are desirable developments. We welcome these regulations and I assure the Minister of our support.
It is a pleasure to see the Minister of State in the House again. Under the Programme for Government, this Government of change recognises that Seanad representation should be given to emigrants and a constitutional referendum on the matter is being considered. There are so many Irish emigrants that serious consideration should be given to recognising them.
The regulations relate to local elections. I welcome them but I wish to broaden this issue to Seanad Éireann and how it works. With the general public impression of how politicians work, is there any reason we should not look at others ways of being elected to Seanad Éireann? The public's impression is not good enough. Having been a Member of this House for many years I sometimes wonder should we consider the idea of direct elections to Seanad Éireann.
Some graduates are allowed vote in Seanad elections. This means they vote twice. I find that peculiar; it is extraordinary. I am elected by county councillors and I do not think for a moment that this is right. Should we consider the idea of direct elections to Seanad Éireann? Why not? Why should we be afraid to look at this? Should we take the opportunity, once and for all, to ask the general public whether a person who has an interest in membership of one House or the other should stand for election on the same day? Why not? Why always create the impression that Seanad Éireann is the second House? I do not like that because good and constructive debate has taken place here for many years. We should not be afraid to say that people have an interest in membership of this House. Is the Government prepared to consider that measure at some future date?
If we are talking about having a referendum on emigrant representation there is no reason we should not consider the idea of direct elections. If it was looked at before the restructuring at local government level — I know the Minister of State is directly involved in this area — there is no reason we should not be looking at other ways of electing people to this House. It is most unfair to the average person that certain people have a second vote at national elections.
I look forward to hearing the Minister's views although I do not expect to hear the detail today. There is no reason this House should not consider further debates on the role of Seanad Éireann and how people are elected to this House. While the Constitution gave strong recognition to the universities in the early days, we often wonder do the universities and graduates have a divine right.
I did not go to college. One sometimes gets the impression that one is considered second class compared to college graduates and I strongly resent that. I make no apologies for suggesting that we consider holding direct elections to both Houses of the Oireachtas. When considering the possibility of a referendum to restructure the Seanad system, we should include other issues.
There is a demand to establish regional authorities at local government level but the EC recognises Ireland as one region. Senator Daly made some strong points and we should not be afraid to examine this area. In Ireland, the regional authorities lose out because the Government has full authority for EC allocations and the regional authorities do not have the powers we thought they would have when they were established. I understand national politicians want to retain their powers but, at the same time, we must use our regional authorities.
Every consideration should be given to holding elections to regional authorities and people should not be nominated to them. As the Minister knows one would get the best out of the people elected. It is evident from political events in recent months that elected representatives must give more recognition to their electorate. People nominated to boards, irrespective of which Government nominates them, seem to be faceless and do not have to answer to anybody whereas elected representatives are always answerable. The more people who are elected to structures of this kind, the better for Ireland and we should not make any apologies for that.
I have spoken to the Minister on previous occasions about restructuring local government. He was involved in local government for many years and I am aware of his ideas about the manner in which local government should be restructured.
We have had discussions with successive Minister for the Environment about the manner in which local elections are conducted. There is no reason the Department should not consider including candidates' photographs as well as their names on ballot papers. Only 50 per cent of Irish people are prepared to vote in local government elections and that is a sad reflection on us. We are already asking how many people will vote in the referendum at the end of this month. A very high percentage of people voted in a referendum in Canada recently. That is very encouraging for both Canada and Quebec because everybody gave their view. Other countries give the impression that they are highly democratic but in America, a very low percentage of people vote.
We must do more at local government level to ensure a higher percentage of people vote. At general elections, the average vote is 70 per cent. Is that high enough? It means that almost one third of the electorate does not vote and we must ask ourselves why. Have we, as politicians, contributed to this? Should we tell people that they may vote? The word "may" is often used in Irish constitutional law. We should also consider compelling people to vote. People have a right to vote but that is no reason we should not tell them they must vote, even if they are prepared to spoil their ballot papers or write something which is not good for me, the Minister or the Opposition. We should not be afraid to have people make decisions about us. We want to include all of the people, not just some of them.
We should take the opportunity to include photographs on ballot papers in a sample county or area to ascertain whether it is a good idea. Unfortunately, a significant percentage of people are illiterate and photographs would be to their benefit. It might not be possible to do it in local elections because of the number of candidates, but we could consider trying it in a sample area during a general election. Obviously that a prettier or better looking person might do better is a consideration. One must also take account of the media structure. The electorate may see candidates in the media but would not actually know them. We discussed this with previous Ministers for the Environment and there is no reason we should not consider it in the context of this motion. We do not want direct answers today but we should have further discussions on both this matter and elections to the Seanad.
We need to open the minds of our young people. A large number of them do not vote and yet we expect much of them and they expect much of us. This shows contempt for the system. We should not be afraid to compel people to vote and I would like to hear the Minister's views on this issue.
We do not give a commitment that local authorities are elected for a particular term although we provide for a five year period. The Minister has a right to restructure local government. When establishing more powerful regional structures, we should take the opportunity to link those bodies with authorities in other EC countries. There is no reason a regional authority in the Cork-Kerry area, which I would represent if I was elected, could not be twinned with a regional authority in France. The previous speaker mentioned that people are not elected to authorities set up at EC level so it is vital that when a person is elected to a regional authority, he would represent that authority at EC level. This is very important.
There are seven regional authorities at present and there is no reason members should not be represented on them through direct elections rather than being nominated by a Government or a Minister as such an approach gives the impression that a faceless person is nominated, who may not be the best person. The people should be able to decide this.
We should give people more rights, and in doing so, voting should be made compulsory, while pointing out the power people have through their vote to elect people to public office. This is especially important, given that more than 50 per cent of the population is aged under 25 years and that so many young people do not vote. It is a sad reflection on us.
I hope we will have an opportunity to debate the structuring of local authorities before the local elections. Local government and local politics generally is not in a good state. There is a deterioration in cities and towns because local government is not strong enough. In addition, regional authorities have only minimal powers. I am a member of a regional authority and they only discuss matters, they cannot decide them. This must be changed urgently.
There must be authority at local level. It is important for those at national level to be concerned with matters at that level, not at local or regional level. For example, unfortunately, at present, the Minister and I must become engaged at local level instead of being involved in issues like drugs and unemployment. I congratulate the Minister for Justice and the Garda Síochána on the drugs find yesterday.
If there were direct elections to regional authorities, people would be committed to the work involved. We should be giving them the opportunity to do so. I hope that, before the restructuring of local government comes before us, further discussion will take place at this level, at local and regional authority level, and at local government level, and that those involved, with those involved in the general council of county councils will get the opportunity to make submissions to the Minister. I know the Minister is committed to this issue, and I hope that his colleagues in Government are similarly committed. As a former Lord Mayor of Cork, the Minister is aware of what is happening at local authority level.
The funding of local authorities is very important, especially when one considers the deterioration in so many areas. The Minister attempted to ensure that people will not be taxed twice, he has spoken strongly on this issue and made no apologies for doing so. However, he also recognises the need for proper structures for local authority funding.
The motion gives us the opportunity to say that there is a need for change in this area. We should not be afraid of change. We should, for example, proceed with a sample of photographs on ballot papers in a specific county or region. As a regional authority member, I am prepared to put this idea before my authority in the County Cork and County Kerry region. I am sure the candidates would be delighted with the idea,
Direct elections are very important, as is the right to vote and the state of the polling booths. The provision of extra time to vote, or allowing the polling officer to make a decision in this regard, is important. In the UK, the count starts very soon after the poll closes. We are behind the times on this. I am delighted the Minister agrees that we should get on with the count as soon as possible. We are very serious about our counts and, rightly, go into the detail of every count. I have stood for many elections and I am aware of how seriously every vote is taken. We must never lose this, but we should get on with the count at a faster pace.
I resent that we do not give an opportunity to young, unemployed people to work on polling days. Those involved are members of local authorities, semi-State bodies and State bodies. We should consider the idea of taking more people off the live register for the one or two days that are relevant to elections, and give them a little power and authority for those days. I am always told that the certain few get all the work. It is most unfair to those who are also well able to undertake it. Courses should be established before elections, for example FÁS schemes, to ensure that those selected would be ready to undertake a count on election days.
I welcome the Minister. I do not intend to oppose the motion as — like the regulations — it is reasonable. There are a number of aspects I do not agree with, but they are of detail, rather than the overall thrust.
The Minister raised a number of issues which I wish to address. He spoke of the representation for the universities in the House, although its relevance to the motion is questionable. There is a widespread view that those who are graduates of third level institutions in the country, universities or regional technical colleges, should be represented in the House. It is not right that a certain proportion of third level graduates should elect six Members to the House. I understand the historical reasons for this, and support the maintenance of these franchises. However, the franchise should be extended to include other third level institutions, not just the graduates of the University of Dublin and the National University of Ireland.
With regard to the representation of emigrants, the Minister's approach is very half-hearted. I have no objection to emigrants being represented in the House, and the arrangement the Minister proposes is reasonable in terms of replacing three of the Taoiseach's 11 nominees by those representing the emigrants. However, my preference would have been to go the whole hog on this and to have provided direct electoral representation to the other House, not in the sense that those representing emigrants would sit in the House, but that the emigrants would have votes within the constituencies for which they had opted to participate in a general election.
This is not unusual in other countries and I do not understand why it cannot be done here. I realise that people who have been out of the country for a long time and might have relinquished citizenship might not qualify but recent emigrants should be entitled to vote in a general election. They certainly should be entitled to vote in a presidential election and there is no reason that cannot be done. My preference would be to extend the franchise beyond that envisaged in these regulations. I do not have an objection to three Members of this House representing the emigrant population and I would extend the franchise to the other House.
The question of deposits which has been raised was discussed in some detail when the legislation was going through the House and I think I am correct in saying that amendments were tabled on the matter. I accept the Minister's point about inflation and how much the original deposits were. There should be the widest possible encouragement to anybody who is resident within a local electoral area and who is not disqualified by virtue of being a criminal and so forth to stand for election and participate in our democracy. While the amount of deposit is modest, I would set it at an even more modest figure. People should be encouraged to enter the electoral arena.
One aspect of this issue that is not dealt with in the regulations — I am trying to recall how it is dealt with in the legislation and I would be grateful if the Minister would address it — is the questtion of boundaries for local electoral areas. This does not involve the electoral boundaries for Dáil elections although we must thank the Clerk of the Seanad, the Clerk of the Dáil and other members of the commission for the good report they produced on that matter. It is important that there be an independent system to define local electoral boundaries. It should not be left to the officials in the county council to decide how boundaries should be established. Perhaps the Minister might address that issue.
The Minister referred to the Local Government Act, 1994, and to the two Parts of that Act which deal with the meetings and terms of reference for local authorities. I agree with him that it is more appropriate to deal with this under the Act rather than in the regulations. Have the relevant sections of the Act been implemented? Part VII of the Act has not been implemented. The Part which permits local authorities to prepare by-laws and make regulations within its area has not been implemented. Why have we a further commission, having had several commissions and reports on local authorities and devolving power to local authorities, when the legislation which allows local authorities to assume certain powers is not being implemented? That appears to be a contradiction. When is it proposed to allow local authorities carry out the tasks permitted under the legislation?
It is right that all residents in an area should have a vote and that the franchise should not be confined to citizens. The roads and services in an area are just as relevant to non-citizens as they are to citizens. I am also aware of the EU regulations in that regard. I had an interesting experience during the 1994 European election. When attending a polling station I met a lady who appeared to be in difficulty. She had been turned away from the polling station and had not been allowed to vote. I asked the polling clerk why this had happened and I was told that it was because the lady was English. I told the polling clerk she was wrong and that any citizen of the European Union was entitled to vote in a European election. I was told that I was wrong. The discussion — I will not call it an argument — continued and the regulations were produced. They were read three times and on each occasion I was told that they confirmed the lady's ineligibility to vote. I asked the polling clerk to read them a fourth time after which it dawned on her that the regulations provided that the English citizen living in Ireland could vote for an Irish candidate in a European election.
The lady had left the polling station at that stage and I followed her in my car. I had to travel for about a mile — she had walked to the polling station from a rural area. She had made the effort to vote but was not allowed to do so. I brought her back to the polling station and she cast her vote. I do not know who she voted for because I only knew her casually. It is extremely important to ensure that when these documents are circulated the language in them is clear enough for people in polling stations who are implementing the legislation to understand. In the case I outlined it was evident that while the regulation was clear, its phrasing was so obscure that the polling clerk had difficulty with it. We should ensure that when these documents are circulated to local stations there cannot be confusion about their content.
Senator Cregan referred to the immediacy of the count. The count is somewhat different here from that in the United kingdom which has a first past the post electoral system. Their count can be conducted quickly and the result will be evident within a few hours. I agree with Senator Cregan that there should be a degree of urgency in how the count is conducted. However, given the complexity of our system, the fact that several candidates will be elected and that a count can take so long, in many cases it is reasonable that they start the count the following morning rather than sit up all night.
Another aspect of the electoral system arises from that — the use of technology. When we discussed the 1992 Bill and, subsequently, the Presidential Elections Bill it was obvious that we were not taking into account the technology that is now available through the use of computers to do these tasks properly. The technology is advancing at such a rate that it should be possible to conduct a count on a computerised system. Obviously, checks and balances within that system would be necessary but there is no reason it cannot be done. The only reasonable objection is the cost. However, there is considerable cost in conducting the task manually.
It is also important that the integrity of the ballot be established and clear and that aspect is covered well by the regulations. Another important matter is admission to the polling station and the presence of personation agents. Members of the House, with the exception of our university colleagues, who are used to going around the polling stations are aware that there is a certain casualness there. I have been to polling stations where personation agents sat immediately inside the door and checked people on the way in by asking them to produce their polling cards. I doubt that they had the right to do that. The people assumed that they were officials. That practice should be examined carefully. In one polling station there was Fianna Fáil literature on the table beside the polling clerk. Obviously, it is undesirable that any party should have its literature on the table. However, when one raises an objection, as one is entitled, one is the worst person in the world; one is not meant to object to such activities. It is explicit in the legislation that this practice is wrong, it is illegal.
There is provision in the regulations for the returning officer to recover expenses from the local authority. There is a provision of £70,000 in Kildare County Council's estimate for the coming year for the running of elections. It seems that the local authority is increasingly being asked to bear costs which more properly lie with the State. In Kildare we had to pay, up until this year, £160,000 to light the motorway so that people coming from other parts of the country could see their way to Dublin. We are also required, under the legislation in relation to the courts, to provide moneys to renovate the courts and this year we are providing £90,000 for that. We are also providing £70,000 for electoral expenses. That is a very substantial amount of money and these costs should properly be borne by the State and not the local authority.
With regard to the buzz at polling stations, Senator Daly is nostalgic about times past when people gathered around the polling stations for friendly banter and chat. I can understand that that has a certain attraction in rural areas where three or four hardy souls man the station for the entire day and have to find mutual sustenance, liquid or otherwise. However, I can recall instances in large towns where the atmosphere was anything but friendly but where it was intimidating and people were blocked on their way into the poling station by people standing in front of them. On balance, the regulations which were introduced to cut that out were good ones and I support them.
The matter of people standing in several wards or electoral areas is questionable. One should opt for an area. A very good vote gatherer, as the late Deputy Blaney was, could stand in several areas and transfer the seats they won to somebody else, which is not very desirable.
I wonder about the matter of direct elections to this House, which was referred to by Senator Cregan. It is an attractive proposition but I think that the House is very representative, although the electorate of county councillors and the Members of the Oireachtas is quite narrow. One of the problems of direct elections — as opposed to continuing the system of direct appointments by the Taoiseach — is that it can lead to the current situation where the two Houses have different political complexions. If that was a permanent feature it could lead to difficulties in terms of bringing legislation through the Houses and so on.
Responsible opposition.
I was just about to make the point, of which Senator Kelleher has reminded me, that the Government can be absolutely assured that the Opposition will behave in a responsible fashion and only use its veto on very rare occasions, as it did last night.
I was one of those who pressed very strongly for the publication of candidates' photographs on the ballot paper, particularly in presidential elections. The objection is that that would lead to some sort of beauty contest. However, certainly in the case of presidential elections — and also, I submit, in the case of local elections — by the time it comes to polling day almost everybody is familiar with the features of the candidates and, therefore, a beauty contest would not arise. However, an important aspect of the need for photographs on the ballot paper is that nobody should be disqualified from voting because of illiteracy. I have been in polling stations where a shouted vote took place whereby the officer read out the names and the person was required to say who they were voting for. That is not right and is discriminatory, which is why the photographs should be on the ballot paper. In the first South African election all the candidates' photographs were in colour on the ballot paper, accompanied by the party logo. I hope that we can get to that point.
I disagree absolutely with Senator Cregan in regard to compulsory voting. It is part of our democracy that people can dissent and have the right not to vote, if they so wish. It is our fault if they do not vote. If they find all of us so unattractive that they feel compelled to stay at home, it is their right to do so. There is a compulsion in countries such as Italy to vote but I think that even there some people do not vote. If we introduced regulations to compel people to vote in general elections, I am interested to know how, in the event of 20 per cent of the population not voting, we would practically pursue them to impose a penalty.
Several aspects of the regulations make one wonder. Regulation 15 (3) states "the deposit to be made by or on behalf of a candidate pursuant to this article may be made by means of legal tender or, with the consent of the returning officer, in any other manner". I have visions of people asking the returning officer to accept legs of lamb and bottles of wine in lieu of legal tender. Would one get one's leg of lamb back if one was elected and did not forfeit one's deposit?
It would be gone off.
I apologise, a Leas-Chathaoirleach, for introducing this frivolous note into the debate, but I find that an amusing aspect.
Another amusing aspect concerns regulation 16 (1) (c) which states "the deposit made by or on behalf of a candidate in respect of a local electoral area shall be returned where the candidate... dies before the poll is closed". I am very interested to know how they will return the deposit to the person who has died. To be serious about it, I assume it would go to their estate. However, certain features of the legislation give rise to levity.
The times for receiving nominators are not entirely satisfactory and are very defined under the regulations. The person receiving the nominations can instruct one to be there at a certain time. I am in favour of opening at night to receive nominations, which would assist people who work during the day.
I made the point earlier about having candidates' photographs on the ballot paper so that nobody is disqualified by illiteracy from voting. The same type of thing also applies to handicapped people. When we debated the 1992 Electoral Bill and the other pieces of legislation this matter was attended to in some respects. However, it is very important that people who suffer from handicaps should have the same entitlement to cast their vote and participate in our democracy as any other citizen. That must be enshrined to ensure that it happens. I raised the matter of personation agents and I do not like the situation where they sit inside the door of the polling station, albeit I can understand the case for that in inclement weather.
Regulation 55 (2) states "a local authority may decide that polling information cards shall be sent to electors at an election, if contested". I agree with the "if contested" part, but there should not be any discretion about sending the cards. It gives the authority that discretion. Participation in democracy should be as inclusive as possible and there should be an obligation to ensure that a polling information card — which is defined in section 55 (1) as "a card informing the elector of the elector's number on the register of electors and of the place at which the elector will be entitled to vote..."— is sent to an elector. I suspect that in practice the local authorities will issue the cards. However, that comes back to the question of expenses which fall to the local authority. If the local authority is very strapped for cash I imagine that members will say when they discuss the estimates that it would cost too much to send out polling cards.
I suspect that direct elections to Seanad Éireann would require huge constitutional change. The reason I can say that is that my party had, and maybe still has, a policy of abolishing the Upper House. I did not find any inconsistency at all——
The Senator has two policies at the same time.
I am about to explain that to the Senator if he would listen.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Could we have Senator Dardis' very interesting contribution without interruption, please.
The Senator is outlining two conflicting policies in the one breath.
Senator Belton's contributions are always characterised by volume.
We heard the Senator at volume over the last few months but he is now eating humble pie.
I have no recollection of having done so.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Senator Dardis without interruption, please.
Senator Belton has achieved his objective, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. He has successfully thrown me off the path on which I was embarked. It is to do with the question of the abolition of Seanad Éireann. I contend that it is possible to get by with a single Chamber. I find no inconsistency whatsoever in participating in a political forum as long as it exists. It would require something like 80 constitutional amendments to abolish Seanad Éireann. There is no particular will to do that and the same point might be made about direct elections. It would require major constitutional change and I suspect that there is no great will to do that. I support the motion, I thank the Minister for his attendance and I hope he will be able to answer a couple of the questions I raised earlier.
My contribution will be a bit scattered because as I have been listening to other speakers I have been jotting down ideas.
One of the advantages of going to another country to observe the elections in that country is that sometimes you learn a lot about your own system of elections and you see practices in those countries that might be of benefit in Ireland. It was my privilege almost two years ago to witness one of the first democratic elections in Russia. One of the features of their ballot paper which I thought was highly interesting, something we could take on board and which might address some of the concerns of Senator Cregan about low polling, particularly by our young people, was that all the ballot papers had a choice which read "none of the above". If a person felt that their particular ideology was not represented they could tick this box. If more than 50 per cent of the people tick this box, that is, if more than 50 per cent of the electorate are unhappy with the choice of candidates, a new election must be held. The onus is then on political parties to come up with different candidates who will receive a mandate from the people.
We are fast approaching a situation where if the numbers of people coming out to vote keep decreasing at this rate, we will eventually find that as elected representatives we do not collectively have the majority of the people behind us. I share Senator Cregan's concern that this would be bad for democracy. I am not sure if making voting compulsory is the answer, but giving people an opt out on the ballot paper is one possible solution. I hate to see ballot papers spoilt.
It is imperative to tell people that it is important that they vote. I was surprised at one election to hear one of the key workers for a political party say "I now know all of those who did not vote for my candidate". That is very important. If a person uses their vote, that vote is secret, but by not voting that person's name is not marked off. Candidates will therefore know that that person did not vote for them because that person did not vote. I saw a spoilt vote once which had the number 1 marked opposite each candidate. That person could justifiably claim that he gave his number one vote to every candidate.
If a person does not vote that fact is on record so that person cannot go to a public representative and say that person is his or her elected representative and must help him or her, because that public representative has a record of whether a person voted or not. I am not sure that candidates should have this record of who did not vote, as it is a certain violation of the secrecy of the ballot if candidates can come out and use that information against the people who did not vote. Perhaps that needs to be examined as well.
The number of people, parties and independents who stand for election creates mayhem at the count. The stronger party will always manage to get a representative outside the railing so that if there are ten people counting, the stronger party will manage to have ten people there looking on; but an independent or a smaller party may not always have that man or woman power. Knowing the number of people in any particular area who voted or did not vote for a candidate gives a political party an enormous advantage. A prolife candidate stood in our consitutency for the general election. She did not poll particularly well and there was one particular small rural parish where she got no vote at all. She said the parish priest had told her he voted for her. He obviously did not. I told that story to another candidate in the election, who said that as the priest in question was a cousin of another candidate in the constituency, he would have voted for his cousin. The secrecy of the ballot can be infringed in those small ways.
The method used to fill casual vacancies concerns me. It is not in the legislation. As it happened, in Limerick city our own party benefited from the vacancy caused when Deputy O'Dea was made Minister of State. This should not be the case. If a person is elected for a political party, that political, party should have the right in legislation to nominate the successor. Independents and non-party people should have the right when they are putting themselves forward for election, as is the case in European elections, to nominate their successor, the person who would take over from them should they happen to resign, retire, die or be sacked. This is one anomaly which the Minister should consider.
It is unfair to parties and it has happened wholesale in County Clare when several vacancies arose. The opposite has also happened in that the ruling majority party took the seats. This is counter to the democratic wishes of the people who voted for a particular party and wanted to see one of its members represent them on the county council. I have given the Minister examples of where this situation has worked for and against the largest party in the State.
I am concerned that elected representatives are being ignored when it comes to nominating people to State boards. We are constantly writing ourselves out of responsibility. I said this last week in the context of the county enterprise boards. It was at the last minute that local representatives were deemed important enough to be members of these boards. The elected representatives on these boards are the most energetic and active members because they are answerable not to a body but to the public and they are conscious of the implications of every move they make. Senators, be they councillors, TDs or Senators, should use every opportunity to fight this trend of ignoring local representatives when people are being appointed to State boards. Senators who are members of county councils should do this on behalf of county councillors.
The name of the printer must be printed on all election literature. What is the reason for this regulation? It must go back to a time when literature could only be mass produced by a printing press. Computers and photocopiers can print material in large volumes and people do not have to go to printers to have their election material printed. I do not see the need for the name of the printer to be printed on such literature.
I am glad that the returning officer can decide to allow a disabled person to vote at a booth other than the one to which he or she would normally be assigned. Most polling stations are in schools and while we hope that in time all schools will be wheelchair friendly the reality is that not all election venues are so at the moment. Providing the leeway to allow people vote at different polling stations is a good idea.
Postal voting should be considered. People's jobs may take them away from home for long periods. Many Irish companies work under contract for firms in England or on the Continent. My brother, an electronic engineer, could be in Russia when I am standing for election. People who know in advance that they will be out of the country for a temporary period because of their jobs should be able to apply to the returning officer for postal votes. They should have to show their airline tickets or other proof if this is needed to prevent fraud.
I wish to reiterate the arguments made by several Senators that, without funding, county councils are becoming increasingly irrelevant. There is little point talking about voting in local elections if people regard councils as irrelevant and we will be if we do not have the power to spend money. Any money given to local authorities is earmarked for specific purposes. Greater freedom at local level to raise and spend money is essential to give backbone to county councils. Otherwise, they are wasting their time and energy and will become useless talking shops. As the Minister was a member of a local authority until recently, he must be only too aware of the sense of powerlessness felt by local authorities.
I support the call for direct elections to regional authorities and the Committee on the Regions. The Minister should look at electoral systems in other countries, some of which have a list system. We should look at systems other than proportional representation for bodies which think they should include directly elected voices. These regulations are a tidying up operation and they have the full support of my party.
I welcome the regulations. We have already pointed out that we will support the motion. Having recently observed an election in Tanzania I can safely say that the process of electioneering in Ireland is very advanced and, most importantly, it is fair and free. All regulations should be about giving people an opportunity to cast their votes in a manner which is considered to be fair, free and in secret.
The Minister and the Government will have to acknowledge that many people do not vote. We have had low turnouts in polls during the last few years. I do not know whether this is due to disillusionment with politicians or with the democratic system but it will have to be addressed. There is talk about introducing compulsory voting and penalties for those who do not exercise their franchise. I think this is too severe. We should cultivate a specific line of thinking to ensure that people are interested in the political and democratic process.
In Tanzania people walked for 12 hours to polling stations, queued for another 12 hours and then walked home. This shows how important they view their right to vote. This contrasts with low voter turnouts in Ireland and other European countries. We must ask ourselves where we are going wrong. Although we have been providing fair and free elections and secret ballots for many years, many people are not interested in exercising their right to vote. We would do well if we did no more than acknowledge that this is a problem and informed people that their vote is most important.
On polling day I miss the banter at polling stations. Having lost an election by 24 votes I have wondered if I had had party members present, would that have encouraged people to vote for the party rather than intimidating them.
People who travel to and from work on election day do not know where the polling stations are because posters and personnel are not allowed in the vicinity. That does not encourage people to go to the polling station, and that is why there is such a low turnout at elections. In the past people knew where the polling stations were because there were a lot of posters and this created a level of awareness among the public.
We should consider putting photographs on ballot papers because if two Bernard Allens ran in Cork North-Central it could create confusion. The same could happen if two Billy Kellehers ran in the same constituency.
Or two Burkes.
Or two Cregans, but the Senator would probably stay on the southside of the city.
That is not a probability now.
There were two Kellehers on a ballot paper recently and people, who were not sure for whom they were voting, voted for the first Kelleher on the paper. However, if we decide to put photographs on ballot papers they should only show a candidate's face, otherwise people such as Tom Selleck and Naomi Campbell would have a distinct advantage over the rest of us.
Senators mentioned the rights of emigrants to vote for representation in this House. I am not sure how the Government proposes to do this. The Minister mentioned three of the 11 Taoiseach's nominees. Will the Taoiseach nominate three people or will three people be elected?
Three people will be elected by emigrants.
Although I would like to see more emigrant representation, there are logistical problems with this proposal. Who will be allowed to vote? How will constituencies be set up throughout the world? We have a huge emigrant population and I would like to know how the Government proposes to give people an opportunity to vote for representation in this House.
This House is of secondary importance to the other House; why should emigrants not also have representation in the Dáil? The reason is that the Government does not want to give emigrants a say in its affairs, but it will allow three people to sit in this Chamber.
Perhaps the Minister could tell me how the Government proposes to pay these people's expenses. Their travel allowances could be exorbitant, if for instance they come from Sydney every week to attend the Seanad. It would be a farce to set up constituencies througout the world to give emigrants an opportunity to vote for representation in this House. It is logistically impossible and would create confusion. We should set up a system where emigrant representative groups throughout the world could nominate a person and the Taoiseach could then appoint someone from that panel. That would be better than an election.
Although we have representatives in the European Parliament we do not have a proper link with the European Commission. There is no co-operation between the European Parliament, the Oireachtas and local authorities. The European Parliament is too far removed from the people. It is unacceptable that funding is given to local authorities by the Government. Funds should be given directly to regions rather than to central Government.
These regulations will improve an already efficient and fair electoral system. Our counting procedures are a problem, particularly if one is not elected on the first count. Having studied a few electoral systems throughout the world, our proportional representation system is the fairest because it gives effective representation. Those elected on the first past the post system in other countries do not represent the majority of the people.
I am concerned about the low turnout at elections, particularly in some constituencies where there is only a 50 per cent turnout. We have failed to educate people about how Government works, its relevance to them and why they should become actively involved in politics. Political parties educate their members on how to vote and what can be achieved in politics, but larger parties have an unfair advantage in this regard. People should be educated about how democracy works because they seem to have no interest in it. We speak in this Chamber, yet young people do not see its relevance. The Government should address this issue. The Oireachtas has employed a public relations officer to try to publicise the workings of Parliament, but that is not good enough. We must educate people in this regard.
Local authority funding is inadequate and I ask the Minister to ensure that there is a radical overhaul in this area. Local authorities should be responsible for education, health and other matters within their county boundaries, which was the position before the health boards took over the responsibility for health. Local authorities should be responsible because they are elected by and are accountable to the people. The sooner we return to this position the better for the country. Elected public representatives must accept the responsibilities which come with the extra power local authorities need to raise funds. I ask the Minister to examine local authority funding because the people think that local authorities are not responding to their needs. This area needs a radical overhaul.
I welcome the change that the counting of votes must take place not later than 9 a.m. the next day. However, we should be able to reach a position where the count can take place soon after the polling stations have closed. This is the practice in many countries but not here because many of those working on the day of the election — polling clerks and presiding officers — are also involved in the count the following day. I ask the Minister to consider this matter. There is room to manoeuvre in this area and it should be possible to reach a position where the count can take place on the night the polls close or soon after.
I welcome the change in the amounts of deposits from £10 and £5 to £50 and £25. It is a reasonable increase and I also welcome the reduction from one-third to a quarter of the quota for the return of deposits. Nobody should be discouraged from standing for election. Many people do not put their names on ballot papers because they fear they will not get back their deposits. They do not put their names forward because they fear they will be viewed as somebody who went up for election but did not get their deposit back and they will subjected to ridicule as a result. The change is welcome. Nobody should be afraid to put their name forward. This is what democracy is all about and why our predecessors fought for our independence.
When a candidate dies in the course of a local authority election, the poll in that area is postponed for ten or 12 days. This happened during the Castlebar Urban Council elections this year when one of the candidates died two days prior to polling. This meant the election was postponed for ten or 12 days. The same position applies to Dáil and other elections. Given our PR system of voting, there is no great need to postpone polling dates. If an individual was to withdraw from an election or die during it, the PR system operates and there is no need to change polling days.
I fully support the campaign for the inclusion of photographs on ballot papers. Senator Dardis takes credit for campaigning for this move over a lengthy period but we have all campaigned in this area for a long time. However, great credit is due to a man from Castlebar, Mr. Ernie Sweeney, who has canvassed almost every elected representative in his bid to have photographs included on ballot papers. He has canvassed various Ministers and the President and he was most disappointed that photographs of the candidates in the last presidential election were not on the ballot papers.
He recently succeeded in having photographs on the ballot papers for a local SIPTU election. It was most successful and everybody was satisfied with the results. It would be a step in the right direction if a particular election, national or local, was chosen and photographs were included on the ballot papers. This would be welcome. Mr. Sweeney points out that there is a large number of illiterate people in the country but they can all recognise photographs. This system is operated in South Africa and several other countries and we should progress in that direction. I ask the Minister to give serious consideration to having a trial run with this system in an election, local or national. The position could then be evaluated.
I agree with Senator Kelly's point about casual vacancies on local authorities. There have been cases where casual vacancies in some counties have been filled by the majority party and I do not agree with that practice. In County Mayo, the party of the candidate who dies, leaves the council or, as in the case of the Minister of State, is elevated, fills the vacancy. This should be enshrined in law, perhaps along the lines of the position pertaining to European elections where a casual vacancy is filled by the political party which previously held the seat. The Minister should consider this aspect and we should move to the European system.
I welcome the change as regards disabled people. It would be welcome if there were centres in electoral divisions, or even in a constituency, where disabled people could go to vote.
I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I regret that Senator Dardis is not in the Chamber——
That is not in order, Senator. That is his prerogative.
The Senator named me in his contribution. Is it in order for me to respond to his comments? Could the Chair rule on this matter?
Acting Chairman
The Senator is in order to speak as he wishes.
Is it in order for me to reply to what Senator Dardis said?
Acting Chairman
The Senator is in order to speak within the structure of the motion before the House.
I have been a member of a local authority for the past 16 years. This debate gives me an opportunity to point out that local democracy makes a most important contribution, although it may not be regarded as the height of democracy and Members may snigger and laugh at each other about it. A Member told the House today that he attended an election in another part of the world and he mentioned its importance to the people of that state.
My family has been involved in local politics and perhaps this is what the Senator, whom I cannot name, meant when he said I always have volume in my contributions. I can only assume he meant the volume of years my family has contributed to local politics. For example, in a local election in south Longford in 1929, there were seven seats of which my uncle and his two first cousins took three. They all had the same name, Belton, but there were no photographs on the ballot papers. It is not necessary to include photographs on ballot papers. I mention this as an example. Perhaps this is what the unnamed Senator meant. I congratulate him on his knowledge of local elections——
Or the Beltons.
——and the people who contributed over the years.
I stand for Fine Gael, which is not a policy driven party. Everybody is aware of our policies and the only party in this country which calls itself a policy driven party is the Progressive Democrats. It seems to pursue two policies: say one thing and do another.
With regard to the voting process, Sunday elections are vital to the progress and continuation of democracy in this country. Since my party reduced the voting age from 21 years to 18 years, a situation has been created where most people involved in third level education are included on the register. How can those people exercise their right to vote if voting takes place on a Wednesday or Thursday? The simple answer is that they cannot vote because they will not be near a polling station on the day in question. If we are serious with regard to continuing democracy and giving young people a vote and an interest in that democracy, it is vitally important that voting take place on a day which suits the majority of the electorate. That day should be Saturday or Sunday. This matter must be considered in a serious way.
It has been mentioned that people are disappointed in relation to the changes which have taken place with regard to polling stations and the activity which takes place outside polling booths. I welcome the changes. It was a bad day for democracy when people entering polling stations were verbally assaulted and forced to take literature from representatives of the various political parties. On entering any other public building, one does not expect that type of approach. It was vital to deal with that matter and I welcome the changes which have occurred.
With regard to co-options, an agreement exists in County Longford between the two main parties that in the event of a co-option vacancies are filled by a member from the same party as the outgoing representative. I must emphasise that this is only an agreement, not a concrete system. It is important that this matter be considered. If a vacancy occurs in a particular area, it is very wrong that the councillors from the overall council have a say in who fills the vacancy. That is not democracy. There are various solutions to this problem. A suggestion was made that people could be nominated by a political party. Another option would be to install the candidate at the top of the list of those defeated at the last election. This could also be considered. The present system whereby the elected members can elect somebody from a particular ward or district must be investigated. People do not like that system. It was mentioned earlier that in a certain county, where co-options have taken place, all the vacancies were filled by members of one political party. Major resentment exists against this process. That is not to say that it did not occur when the shoe was on the other foot. It did occur.
Government is responsible for legislation and it is some Minister's responsibility to ensure that the system of co-option be seriously investigated. That is vitally important for the continuation of local democracy.
I thank Members for their contribution to the debate. As stated in my opening statement, these regulations are of a purely technical nature. They are designed to consolidate in a single document the detailed rules for local elections and harmonise them as far as is practicable with the rules relating to Dáil elections. These in turn were revised and consolidated in 1992.
The regulations contain a very minor technical provision arising from the European Union directive on the right of EU citizens to vote and stand at local elections in their member state of residence. We in this country anticipated Maastricht by almost 30 years in this regard. I am glad that the regulations, despite their somewhat restricted scope, have given rise to a very vigorous and thought provoking debate. I thank Senators for their contributions and assure them that the points raised, while not directly related to the regulations, have been noted and will be carefully considered. In the time available I will attempt to deal with as many as possible of those points. If I do not specifically mention particular points, I can assure the Senators concerned this does not mean that those matters have not been noted.
In relation to the electoral deposit, a general acceptance seems to exist that an increase somewhere in the order of that proposed is necessary. An electoral deposit is the mechanism used in this and other countries to place a disincentive in the way of purely frivolous candidates. It also provides recognition of the privileges to which a candidate is entitled: free copies of the register, the right to demand that electors be challenged or arrested at polling stations and the right to demand a complete recount of all the votes. Alternative ways to achieve this objective and establishing that the candidate has serious support — requiring provision of a significant number of signatures or restricting the right to nominate to restricted parties, for example — are either difficult to operate or unacceptable in principle. If there is to be a deposit, it must be pitched at a reasonable level. It must be high enough to discourage the frivolous but not so high as to represent an obstacle to genuine candidates.
The present deposit at local elections is merely an irritant and seems to serve no effective purpose. The question of the deposit at Dáil elections is one of the electoral matters which the Minister recently referred to the Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs for consideration. It may be taken that whatever solution is decided upon for Dáil elections will also apply at local government level. The draft regulations propose to fix the deposit at a reasonable limit without prejudice to whatever decision may be taken with regard to electoral deposits in general.
Senators Cregan and Dardis referred to different aspects of electoral procedure in which improvements might be effected. Senators Belton, Burke and Kelleher suggested that photographs be included on ballot papers. There may be something in the fact that the Senators are all very photogenic.
Acting Chairman
Indeed.
The inclusion of party logos and the question of compulsory voting were also raised. An extensive list of suggestions for improvements in electoral law procedures, including relevant suggestions made during the course of debates on the Electoral Bill, 1992, was referred by the Minister to the Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs for consideration in April 1995. The committee agreed to consider the matters referred to it. Any report which the committee may prepare on these suggestions will be considered in due course. The issue of compulsory voting would seem to require an amendment to the Constitution. It is an interesting suggestion and one which may be considered in the general review of the Constitution.
I refer now to the question of voting rights for emigrants raised by Senator Dardis and others. Emigrant representation has been the subject of debate over a number of years. There now seems to be a general acceptance of the principle that emigrants should be represented in the Oireachtas, but there are different views as to what form that representation should take. Arising from a commitment in the policy agreement, A Government of Renewal, the Government decided to sponsor a constitutional amendment Bill to provide for the election of three Members of Seanad Éireann by Irish emigrants. The intention is that overall membership of the Seanad will remain at 60 and, as I said in my opening speech, the new Members will be in substitution for three of the 11 Members who under existing constitutional provisions are nominated by the Taoiseach. While there are differing views on the form of representation for emigrants, there seems to be a developing consensus that in the first instance, at least, representation should be by way of the Seanad. I believe that this would have wider support than representation in the Dáil.
Senator Dardis asked whether local electoral areas will be revised before the next local elections. The question of whether a revision will take place before the next local elections, due to be held in 1998, is one which will be considered in due course having regard to the detailed results of the 1996 Census of Population and the up to date figures for the electorate. The implementation of changes in the boundaries of electoral areas is effected by order of the Minister. Under the Local Government Act, 1991, the Minister is required, before deciding to make such an order, to request the boundary committee to prepare a report. The committee is required to furnish a report in writing to the Minister and include recommendations in it. The Minister is required to publish the report and is required to have regard to it in deciding whether to make the order or not. If local electoral areas are revised before the 1998 local elections, this procedure has to be followed.
In relation to the amendment of Seanad electoral law, I can confirm that it is intended that the Seanad electoral codes will be amended and updated as part of the general electoral law reform programme. I am not, however, in a position to say when this is likely to happen. Unlike the other codes, examination of the Seanad law cannot be confined to a simple updating process. More substantial matters will have to be addressed. For example, there is the proposal, as I mentioned earlier, that three Members of the Seanad should be elected by Irish emigrants in place of three of the existing nominated Members. The question of widening the electorate for the election of university Members must be considered and this, in turn, must lead to some change in the allocation of the university seats.
Over and above this there is a commitment to a general review of the Constitution. The group chaired by the former Senator, Dr. T.K. Whitaker, has already been at work on this for some months. Although I can claim no knowledge in relation to the aspects of the Constitution which may be considered in the review, it seems almost inevitable that the role and composition of the Seanad will be adverted to one way or the other. Whether this would extend to direct elections of the Seanad, as suggested by Senator Cregan, is a matter about which we must wait and see. The whole question of university representation is another matter which may well arise in that context.
Senator Dardis referred to a case during the European elections where, apparently, a British citizen was at first denied the right to vote. I am extremely sorry that something of this kind could have happened and I am assured that the greatest care is taken in drawing up the manual for presiding officers. I will ask my officials to have another look at the instructions to see if they can be made even clearer. I agree fully with the Senator that direct communications between personation officers and electors is quite irregular and should not be permitted. I will have the instructions on this matter looked at again and further emphasised if necessary.
Senator Kelly referred to persons who are absent from their local areas on polling day. The Electoral Bill, 1994, provides for postal voting facilities for electors who, because of their occupations, are unable to vote at their polling stations. The facilities are intended to assist fishermen, transport workers, business persons and others whose occupations involve their frequent absence from home. Electors in this situation may apply for entry in a postal voters list. While the Bill as drafted does not extend this facility to local elections, it is envisaged that the Minister will move an amendment on Committee Stage to provide for the extension of postal voting to such elections.
Senator Dardis asked whether Parts II and V of the Local Government Act, 1994, have been brought into operation. The position is that neither of these Parts is yet in force. Part II of the Act will come into force at the next local elections due to be held in 1998 and it is intended that Part V will be brought into operation as soon as is practicable. The Senator will understand that the 1994 Act is complex and much of it must be dovetailed to fit in with the new councils to be elected in 1998 rather than with existing councils.
The question of electronic vote counting was raised but there are no specific proposals at present to automate our voting system. A preliminary examination of this issue some years ago indicated that computerised voting would involve significant practical difficulties and costs, particularly on account of our single transferable vote — STV — system. With a first past the post system like the US has, machine voting is straightforward. Essentially, all that is required is a meter to total each candidate's votes. Even with the list systems used in most European countries, voting normally involves a single option. With STV, a sophisticated method of recording the preference pattern on each ballot paper is necessary. However, the position is being kept under review in the light of technological developments. I am glad to say that good progress has been made in the development of a computer programme designed to assist returning officers in the conduct of the count.
Senator Kelly referred to the question of access to polling stations. The accessibility of polling stations is regarded as an administrative matter and appropriate administrative guidance is provided to returning officers. They are advised that polling stations should always be located on the ground floor and they should select premises with a view to facilitating access by the infirm and persons with disabilities. They are advised, where necessary, to consider installing temporary ramps. If it were decided that this matter should be dealt with by law, the legal provisions should have general application and should not be confined to local elections, which are the only elections to which draft regulations relate. In regard to the location of polling stations, returning officers have been advised to provide a clear polling station sign outside each voting premises and, where necessary, to put up direction signs.
Senator Cregan emphasised the importance of closer contact between local communities in this country and similar countries throughout the rest of the European Union. In this connection he mentioned specifically the question of twinning as well as the European Union's Committee of the Regions and the regional authorities in this country. I am glad to inform him that the Local Government Act, 1991, provided a legal basis for twinning between towns, districts and regions in this country and their counterparts in other member states. This can give a substantial fillip to twinning. His view that the Committee of the Regions should be directly elected is well worthy of consideration. At the moment our representatives on the committee are all representatives of local authorities, unlike other countries. The regional authorities in this country also consist of local authority members elected to the regional body by their parent local authorities.
A number of Senators raised the issue of employment in connection with elections. We have written to all returning officers requesting that, wherever possible, employment in connection with the referendum should be offered to suitable people who are not in paid employment. We recognise that the efficient conduct of the poll is the paramount consideration and that experienced persons must be engaged for the more sensitive and skilled tasks. However, many people not in paid employment are qualified to carry out the ordinary range of duties connected with a referendum. A request has been made that as far as possible people not in paid employment should be engaged for these purposes and that returning officers should contact FÁS employment services and training centres as early as possible to secure their assistance in the recruitment of suitable persons.
Senator Cregan asked about representation in Europe. There are a number of schemes in the European Union which would facilitate local authorities which at times are cash strapped. I hope local authorities will look at the schemes in operation which would allow members and people to utilise services in local authority areas to interchange with their counterparts in the European Union.
Question put and agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 1 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.