Today's business is items 1 and 2. Item 1, Second Stage, will be taken on conclusion of the Order of Business until 1 p.m. There will be a sos from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. after which Committee and Final Stages of the Metrology Bill, 1996, will be taken. If item 1 has not been concluded it will be resumed after completion of item 2, although I suspect item 1 will be completed by 1 p.m. I suggest 20 minutes per spokesperson on item 1 and 15 minutes for other speakers.
Order of Business.
With regard to next week's business, what is the position with the Courts and Court Officers Bill? Can the Leader give us some idea about what is in that Bill?
The Leader of the House will be aware that a tour operator, Classic Choice, went into liquidation overnight. Radio stations and offices have been inundated with telephone calls from consumers, and probably from other companies, as this is the height of the holiday season. Will the Leader recommend to the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications that a public statement be made about the protection of the consumer under the 1982 Act? That Act offers complete protection to the consumer with regard to the cost of the holiday and the Department will ensure that every holiday maker is returned to their country of origin. It would be useful if a public statement or advertisement was run in the newspapers and other media over the weekend to allay the fears of consumers. I understand that there is no holiday available on this weekend.
This morning's edition of The Examiner has a worrying front page story about the lack of resources for the Chief State Pathologist and his office. This issue creates much concern and a number of people I spoke to this morning have raised it. They were unaware of such a problem as they simply assumed that the office was fully resourced. I would like to hear a response to the story from the Leader of the House. Perhaps he could organise a discussion on it. I am not qualified to make statements on the matter as I do not know enough about it. In the vast majority of serious cases the technical evidence from the Chief State Pathologist's office is quite crucial to the production of evidence for the conviction of criminals. The House should be informed about this matter either through a statement from the Minister or through a brief debate. We need reassurance. I am trying to anticipate the problems or criticisms that might arise in the future if it turns out that the lack of resources in that office led to flawed evidence.
With regard to today's business, I doubt that item 1 will continue until 1 p.m. I do not object to the Order of Business but I would be happier if the sos were taken on the conclusion of item 1 if it concludes before 1 p.m. That would mean we could proceed to the next item. If item 1 finishes in an hour and the sos is taken from 1p.m. to 2 p.m. there will be a sizeable gap in the day's schedule. I ask the Leader to consider accepting my suggestion.
I support Senator Wright's remarks about Classic Choice and I ask the Leader to ensure that people who are stranded abroad are looked after. The Department is doing what it can but it is important to reassure people that since their holidays are bonded, they will not be out of pocket, although they will be seriously discommoded. If they have to book new holidays there will be a financial aspect involved.
My other point is to do with Bord na Móna. This matter was raised by Senator Finneran and others yesterday. The extended nature of the dispute between the board and the chief executive must come to a conclusion. I appeal to the Leader to ask the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications to do everything possible to resolve this matter speedily because it is affecting morale within the company and its capacity to compete effectively. This matter needs to be brought to a conclusion as quickly as possible.
I support Senator O'Toole's comments on the State Pathologist's office. It is a serious matter and the comments made by The Examiner need to be addressed at the earliest possible date.
I strongly protest at the comments made by two District Court Judges, Judge Martin and Judge Pattwell, at recent sittings of the District Court. In making these comments, they have clearly moved from the judicial to the political field. One judge went so far as to advocate that people ——
We cannot raise this matter. The Judiciary is separate from the political arena. I must rule you out of order, Senator.
That is why I am raising the matter. There is a clear separation between the Judiciary and the political arenas. These two judges have moved into the political arena. That is unwise and dangerous.
The Senator cannot raise that on the Order of Business.
What they stated was not part of their judicial function; they have moved into the political arena. When will this House be afforded an opportunity to discuss these comments?
The behaviour of judges.
I regard it as a very serious matter.
The public will be shocked and horrified at the disclosures by the Chief State Pathologist on the current chronic state of forensic pathology in the Department. Today's disclosure has raised serious questions about the ability of the State to function properly in this area, which is central to some of our present problems in the justice area. Can we have an opportunity discuss this matter and get an indication from the Minister for Justice as to what is being proposed to deal with that situation, which has also been described as chronic in the areas of personnel and staff. The State Pathologist, Dr. Harbison, drew attention to the fact that his assistant, Dr. Bolster, is only employed on a temporary basis.
We are not discussing the technicalities of that report now, Senator.
It may be the most serious issue raised in recent times on the administration of justice. We need to get an indication from the Minister for Justice if she proposes to deal with that and, if so, how and when?
I support Senator O'Toole's and Senator Daly's requests for a debate on the comments made by the Chief State Pathologist. The situation is at such a level that on occasions the Chief State Pathologist must pay his own way to go to international conferences. That is not a healthy situation, given the present state of crime. Not alone should the office function well but it should also be seen to do so.
I also support discussing the situation highlighted by Dr. Harbison. He is a respected public servant and we should all pay attention to his views. Maybe we could have an opportunity to discuss it next week.
Would it be possible for this House to take some time to discuss the affairs of Bord na Móna? The issue was ducked by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Commercial State-Sponsored Bodies yesterday in an outrageous way. If either House of the Oireachtas is to have any function in this matter, we should set aside time for it now.
I also concur with Senator Enright's views on the Judiciary. We will have the opportunity to discuss the matter in the Courts and Court Officers Bill next week. Judges are now beginning to meander into the political field. While I welcome them expressing their views——
I have already ruled on that matter.
I am not talking about any one judge, but it is about time we unfettered the Houses of the Oireachtas to express our views about judges, some of whom are duffers.
Senator Wright raised two issues. The Courts and Court Officers Bill will be taken next week. It is scheduled for Thursday but the Whips may agree to take it on Wednesday; that is open for discussion. This Bill will establish three new judges to help clear the current backlog of cases waiting to be heard. It will also give Members an opportunity to discuss the points raised by Senator Enright and Senator Roche, the overall structure and performance of the judicial system. Like the two Senators, I was also astonished to read some of the self-indulgent outbursts from the two judges mentioned in recent times, which in one case virtually amounted to incitement. The less said on that, the better. There will be an opportunity next week for Members to discuss that matter.
Senator Wright mentioned the tour operator case. I am sure the Minister and his Department are doing everything possible, but I will pass onto him the urgency of the matter and the need to make a statement at the earliest possible moment.
Senator O'Toole and others raised The Examiner story concerning Dr. John Harbison. He is one of the most respected public officials in this State and is a person of great integrity and dedication to duty. Anything he says must be taken seriously. The way to follow this up might be to put a motion on the Adjournment next Tuesday to provide basic information and, if need be, we could then have a debate on the matter next Wednesday or Thursday. Putting down a motion on the Adjournment might be the best initial way to get the facts.
Senator O'Toole also raised the question of the ordering of today's business. The reason I had a fixed time for discussing the Metrology Bill is because there is a need for a degree of certainty in how we run our business so that people know exactly when it is being taken and not be caught on the hop. The Whips can discuss this afterwards, but it is better to have a fixed time for this matter so Members can arrange their day with some degree of certainly as to what will happen.
Senator Dardis and Senator Daly raised the question of Bord na Móna. On the morning when the board, hopefully one way or the other, is coming to the final act — for all our sakes I hope it is — it would not be appropriate to have a debate today. However, I have no problem with having one next week if this would help. Today would not be the day to do this, when the matter is still being resolved and we do not have the full facts.
Order of Business agreed to.