Today's business is item 1 until 1 p.m. and item 2 from 2 p.m. to 5 p.m. with a sos from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. With the permission of the House, I intend to circulate a Supplementary Order Paper later regarding the Freedom of Information Bill, which was initiated in the Seanad. There are a number of technical amendments from the Lower House which I hope could be dealt with at 5 p.m. if the House agrees.
Order of Business.
I am sure that is fine. Will the Supplementary Order Paper be circulated as soon as possible in relation to the Freedom of Information Bill?
Yes.
Will the Leader outline next week the programme of sittings and the legislation it is intended to take between now and the summer recess? Will he ensure, through the Minister for Health, that the Government does everything possible to resolve the threatened strike by ambulance personnel? If the strike takes place, services to cover emergencies must be in place.
I welcome the announcement yesterday that Aer Lingus is showing a profit. This is a result of the commitment and dedication of the workforce. The Taoiseach and the Minister Transport, Energy and Communications have suggested that a sell off or alliances with other companies could be part and parcel of future policy. If such proposals are made, I ask the Leader to ensure that the House has an opportunity to discuss them in the context of the overall plan for Aer Lingus.
I welcome the return of the Freedom of Information Bill to the House where it was extensively discussed. Several requests for a debate on European Monetary Union have been made. Yesterday, before Second Stage of the Public Service Management Bill, the Minister for Finance said he would welcome a debate on European Monetary Union at an early date. Given that the pace is hotting up, such a debate would be timely.
The Order of Business was unusually long yesterday and this demonstrated the arbitrary nature of the arrangements for Ministers waiting in the ante room for the commencement of legislative business. The Minister for Finance was kept waiting for almost an hour yesterday. I can envisage cases where civil servants and perhaps Ministers might welcome the opportunity to rehearse their lines. However, the Minister for Finance does not need time to rehearse his lines, whatever one may think of them. Given that the House often tells the rest of the country how it ought to organise its business, we should consider how the Order of Business is conducted, because Ministers are often kept waiting. Is this the most efficient use of their time, which ought to be valuable?
Is Senator Norris present?
Senator Lee without interruption.
There may be a time when some of us are no longer Members of the Seanad. However, perhaps the House could consider whether there is a more efficient way to organise the Order of Business. Perhaps a time could be set before which it would not be necessary for a Minister to arrive.
I disagree fundamentally with Senator Lee. I envisage circumstances where it would be highly desirable to keep a Minister waiting all day outside and to have a totally unlimited Order of Business. The Committee on Procedures and Privileges could examine this.
Yesterday I raised the need for an urgent debate on the difficulties in agriculture, particularly the beef and dairy sectors. I sought to raise this matter under Standing Order 29 and was ruled out of order. I do not challenge that ruling, but this is a matter of considerable difficulty that should be dealt with by the House. European Monetary Union is a related matter in that the strong currency and revaluations are partly responsible for these difficulties. There should be a debate on this matter as a matter of urgency, preferably with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry present, but perhaps also with the Minister for Finance present, to deal with matters arising from European Monetary Union.
I have no difficulty in dealing with the Freedom of Information Bill today but yesterday it was decided to take Committee Stage of the Litter Pollution Bill and we need to be aware of the pressure those decisions place on the staff in the Clerk's office. Recently a Bill went from Committee Stage to Report Stage and it was a miracle that the staff got the amendments tabled and put in order in time. Arrangements will have to be made so that the procedure is not an ad hoc one.
There are reports that new gardaí cannot be provided with whistles. I suggest the Leader ask the Minister for Justice to contact the Gaelic Athletic Association, the Irish Rugby Football Union and the Football Association of Ireland. I am sure they will be able to supply the gardaí with the whistles they require.
I remind Members that reading newspapers in the Chamber is not permitted.
I am just checking the record.
Mr. Naughten
Is the Leader aware of a problem with nursing students who are completing their diploma in nursing studies? This is the first group of students to complete this course and they are looking to get their degree in nursing with a one-year degree course. The Department of Health has paid for the diploma course but will not pay for their degree course. The Department of Education feels the Department of Health should pay for the degree course, so they are falling between two stools. They are the only undergraduate students in the country who have to pay college fees. The Leader should ask the Departments of Health and Education to look into this matter so that one of them can decide to pay these fees. This matter is turning into a joke.
I ask the Leader when the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry will come into this House to debate the serious decline in beef and milk prices. Yesterday the Minister was quoted as being concerned at factories not passing the proper price for beef on to farmers. The Minister should clarify to the House what he is doing to ensure that the price of beef is not allowed to continue falling and do the same in relation to milk prices. There is no use in the Minister being quoted as being concerned about the factory prices. Farmers have to kill their cattle and it is now coming to the end of the season.
A question to the Leader, please.
This is very serious. Farmers have to kill their cattle and are rushing them out now as we reach the end of the season.
Have you a question for the Leader, Senator?
I am sorry if I am going on too long, a Chathaoirligh, but it is a serious issue. I appeal to the Leader to ask the Minister and the Taoiseach to deal with the problem immediately. Matters have continued to slide in the last five weeks.
As Whip of my group and a Member of Committee on Procedure and Privileges I am loathe to change the procedures for asking questions in the Seanad. It is our only way of raising issues—we do not have Question Time as in the other place, so it is an important part of our Order of Business. If Ministers have to wait, so be it.
Senator Dardis mentioned the whistles, but he is in the best position of all; he only uses his whistle once a year at the international rugby match between the Oireachtas and Westminster. If the Progressive Democrats were interested in justice and containing crime, he would lend his whistle to the gardaí.
I cannot give it away, it was presented to me.
I express appreciation to the leader of the IFA, Mr. John Donnelly, for his effective and apparently successful lobbying of the Commission in the interests of the farming community in the absence of effective action by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, who does not seem to be know where the Commission is. It would be helpful to be told where the Minister is.
He is at the airport.
He is not in Libya, Iran or Egypt trying to open up our live export markets. Perhaps he is in Doyle's pub in Enniscorthy.
Speech.
Senator, we are not debating the whereabouts of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry on the Order of Business.
We are debating the welfare of the agriculture and beef sector.
Have you a question for the Leader, Senator?
Will the Leader convey to the President of the IFA our deep appreciation of his efforts to compensate for the lack of effort on the part of the Minister, whose whereabouts are unknown?
Hypocrisy.
He was held up at Aintree.
I deplore the shortage of whistles but I hope one could be made available to the Taoiseach——
You should blow the whistle on this contribution, a Chathaoirligh.
——so that he could call time on this useless, nonsense Government.
It might be a good idea if the information section of the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry educated the urban population about the complex problems facing farmers at present. City dwellers do not know the meaning of the green £ or export subsidies as applied to agriculture. The Minister should submit to the newspapers easily read and understood accounts of what lies behind these problems.
I am concerned and disappointed at the decision taken last night at Bushmills by County Antrim Orangemen, as it will have serious repercussions. As these troubles have continued the Orangemen have seen fit to take one disastrous step after another on the marching question. They are now close to bringing about another Drumcree — a spokesman for the Spirit of Drumcree group said that should it come to that they are willing to face it. The Orange Order has not yet been taken over by this faction but it might well be. The Minister for Foreign Affairs should recall that the real piece of sand in the oyster is Sinn Féin, particularly its behaviour in infiltrating the concerned citizens' and residents' committees.
Rubbish.
This is the irritant that results in so many other problems. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to concentrate as hard as possible on reassuring Unionists about the principle of consent, that there is no hidden agenda behind the principle and that there is no intention to trick the one million Protestants in Northern Ireland into an open-ended united Ireland? I know this is the situation but it cannot be said often enough because reiterating it will take the weapons away from Sinn Féin, which is the irritant at the heart of the troubles.
I support Senator Naughten's concern over student nurses and members of the nursing profession. For several years the Mid Western Health Board have sponsored nurses to pursue courses in public health nursing. There is a huge demand for public health nurses and it is unfortunate that this year the Mid Western Health Board has decided not to sponsor anybody on the public health nursing course because of lack of Finance. This issue needs urgent attention and discussion and I ask the Leader to seek clarification from the Minister for Health on the matter.
I also wish to raise the plight of small dairy farmers. Will the Leader convey to the Minister for Agriculture, who appears to be missing, that a sizeable number of small dairy farmers in the west, particularly in Clare, are getting out of the dairy industry?
Limerick too.
The weekly newspapers contained a huge number of clearance sales of dairy herds which is unprecedented and which will create major long-term problems in the dairy industry. A message must be sent to the Minister that urgent action is necessary.
I support the call for a debate on the plight of beef and dairy farmers. Beef farmers have seen a virtual elimination of their income over the past few weeks. If this happened in any other section of society immediate action would be taken and concern would be expressed from all quarters. I support Senator Dardis's request for a full debate on the issue in the House.
I support statements by my colleagues regarding public health nurses and student nurses who have received their diplomas and wish to undertake a degree course. A huge vacuum exists and the Department of Education must play a role in the matter. The Departments of Health and Education seem to be sending out different messages. The guidance given to students is confused because those advising them do not know what to say to them, whether they can get the maintenance free extension to university, whether there are places, who provides them and who pays the fees.
I would like a debate on mildly mentally handicapped children. This issue has been raised in the House over the past five years. It concerns children aged between 14 to 16 who can be brought in and contained within the education system but who, on reaching 16, have nowhere to go. The system becomes bogged down between the Departments of Health and Education. Many families are in great distress because they have young children who cannot be contained at home and who cannot get a place in any centre because they are too young for adult centres and too old to be left in school. This is a huge dilemma for families. I raised this issue three years ago and am still unable to give solace to families. We need a full debate and statement on the matter. There is no point waiting until after the election. The problem will not go away.
I welcome yesterday's decision by the Minister for Health, Deputy Noonan, to remind the North Western Health Board of their duty to provide proper family planning services, including vasectomy services, in the North Western Health Board area. Fundamentalists should not be able to pressurise politicians and members of the health board to suspend a service which it is a person's civil right to avail of. This service is very helpful to the poor who would not be able to pay for it elsewhere. The service has been provided in Derry for the past 30 years without harming the Catholic community there. When the standing committee of the North Western Health Board meet tomorrow they should have the courage to stand up and say that the service is legal and they will continue to provide it.
On the issue of the falling prices in agriculture, I ask the Leader, in any consideration of or debate on falling prices in beef and particularly milk, to get an explanation for the House as to why there is no corresponding fall in price to the consumer. Milk prices have been low for some time but there has been no change in price to the consumer.
Could the Leader give the House any indication as to when he will be taking the remainder of the Universities Bill as there is a very large number of amendments? I assume that the original date of the 22 and 23 April will be reserved to take these amendments.
I support Senator Maloney's comments. It is important that legal medical services are made available to those who in conscience are in a position to avail of them.
In the light of the debate we had in this House on adoption and adoption legislation, can the Leader give us any indication when further legislation will be introduced with the intention of giving people access to information about their backgrounds? There has been a great deal of additional controversy since the matter was debated in this House. Over the past few days it has emerged that birth mothers, as well as adopted children, were seeking to make contact with their families. In some circumstances both parties wished to make contact but this wish was being frustrated by the agencies involved. This should not be tolerated.
Senator Wright raised a number of questions on the Order of Business. It is proposed that the House sit on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday of next week. I hope to be a position on the conclusion of the Order of Business to circulate the outline of legislation which we will be taking over the coming weeks to Senator Wright and other group leaders. The list is a substantial and extensive one.
I believe there are grounds to be hopeful with regard to the ambulance dispute and, in so far as I have any say in the matter, any developments in Aer Lingus will be debated in this House.
Senator Lee raised a slightly strange question about the Order of Business being, in some way truncated so as not to inconvenience Ministers. I agree with Senator Dardis on this occasion; I have no difficulty in inconveniencing Ministers. Having to wait and listen to the Order of Business goes with a ministerial portfolio. I am a bit puzzled that the request came from the independent Senators.
It came from one independent Senator.
I wonder which, if any, of the Senators will take this vow of verbal continence which would be required by Senator Lee's proposal. I accept his comment in the spirit in which it was made, but to my mind the Order of Business is one of the most important aspects of the business of this House. Neither my predecessor nor myself have made any attempt to curtail the Order of Business. Obviously, the ultimate decision rests with our revered Cathaoirleach. The Order of Business is the one occasion on which Members can air their grievances in the absence of a question time. I do not envisage any change there.
Senator Dardis also spoke about the procedures of the House. I am conscious that on occasion business will perhaps be taken in a way which was not intended. As is the custom in this House, I have always attempted to obtain agreement for what we do. Unlike the other House, there is never an attempt to steamroll issues. Although there is a majority in this House, the guillotine is rarely, if ever, used. I hope that will continue. Agreement is at the centre of the way we run our business.
I spoke to the Minister for Agriculture, Food, and Forestry, and was interested to hear Senator O'Kennedy's comments on him. Last year the Minister was voted agricultural personality of the year and the person most effective in agriculture by farmers in the Irish Farmers' Journal. I am not aware of any other Minister, including Senator O'Kennedy, receiving that accolade from farmers, a group which is not easy to please. I know there is a crisis in farming and I cannot think of a person better equipped and with more energy, dynamism and determination to handle it than the present Minister. I spoke to the Minister who is happy to come to the House, so I will try to arrange a date.
Senator Naughten raised the question of student nurses. I defer to his superior knowledge on the subject but he and Senator Daly raised interesting and important topics which I will refer to the Minister for Health and the Minister for Education. Senator McAughtry made a lot of sense when spoke about intransigence in Northern Ireland and was even-handed in attributing blame.
Senator Ormonde raised an important topic and if she tables a motion, I would be happy to make a few hours available to discuss it. Senator Maloney made a point with which I agree. Senator Sherlock's point about the failure of consumer prices to fall was noted. I expect Committee Stage of the Universities Bill, 1996, to continue on 22 and 23 April but I will provide Senator Norris with definite information on that.
The Adoption (No. 2) Bill is on Committee Stage, although there is a problem in that a court case is pending which centres on the Paraguayan babies. Until the Supreme Court case is resolved, the Minister believes it would not be wise to complete Committee Stage, but it is a priority. On the wider question, I am not aware of pending legislation to meet the questions raised.
Order of Business agreed to.