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Seanad Éireann debate -
Friday, 16 May 1997

Vol. 151 No. 13

Prompt Payment of Accounts Bill, 1997: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The purpose of the Bill is to ensure prompt payment of amounts due to businesses for the supply of goods and services by public sector purchasers.

Late payment of business debt is a serious restriction on the cashflow of businesses and causes squandering of scarce management time in chasing payment of bills. It is an unproductive use of resources which could be better spent developing the business. The Government, as part of its programme for Government and its commitments under Partnership 2000, is committed to the introduction of legislation to provide for the prompt payment of bills by the public sector. We honour that commitment in this Bill. Indeed, we have gone beyond our commitment by including all businesses, not just small businesses, in its provisions.

In recent years a number of surveys have been conducted in Ireland and other European countries which have tried to quantify the time taken to pay accounts and the extent of the late payment problem. The small business task force estimated that payment periods in Ireland were 79 days on average, which was poorer that the European average. A European business survey by Grant Thornton International Business Strategies Ltd. in May 1996 showed the average payment period in Ireland to be 59 days, which is two days lower than the EU average of 61 days but nine days longer than the UK average.

No specific surveys were conducted on the extent on public sector versus private sector delays. However, a small study was carried out in 1992 by the Society of Chartered Surveyors which covered 11 companies and 139 fee payments. The study indicated the average payment period was 154 days. As the study was quite unrepresentative, I commissioned a survey on the issue. The purpose of the survey was twofold; first, to identify existing practice and, second, to establish a benchmark for the future. The survey involved a sample of 75 public sector organisations, with 100 invoices selected for examination in each case. The results of the survey were based on an analysis of more than 7,000 payments.

The key findings of the survey were: the average payment period between the date of invoice and the date on which payment is made is 55 days; the average payment period for payments made after 45 days is 76 days; almost 57 per cent of payments were made later than 45 days. The distribution was bad also in that 26 per cent of payments were made after 60 days and 12 per cent were made later than 80 days. Clearly, some businesses experienced long waiting periods for payment. There is significant scope for improvement in public sector payment practices. This underpins the need for the Bill.

The legislation will require public bodies to pay amounts due to their suppliers on or before the date due under the terms of the contract, provided it is in writing. Where the payment date is not established by a written contract, payment must be made within 45 days of receipt of an invoice or date of supply, whichever is later. The Bill also contains appropriate safeguards to deter public bodies from seeking unduly long credit periods in written contracts. A key provision is an automatic right to interest in respect of late payments.

No legislation applies to the private sector and the Government does not intend to introduce such a Bill at this stage. However, this does not mean private sector payment practices are not without fault. The Government is willing to give time to see whether the voluntary codes established by the various business organisations bring about improvements is private sector payments. While it would not be appropriate to introduce legislation at this stage to govern private sector payments, the Government has not closed its mind to that concept. We will monitor the position and consider whether it is necessary to introduce such legislation.

The Bill will be implemented as and from 1 January 1998. This gives public sector bodies time to put their houses in order to ensure they are in a position to update their systems and every staff member so they can meet the new demands and reporting requirements of the Bill.

Section 1 deals with interpretation and definitions. All public bodies and subsidiaries are listed in a Schedule to the Bill. People will know at a glance who is covered by the legislation. The definition of purchaser extends beyond public sector bodies to include contractors on public sector contracts. If contractors will receive the benefit of the Bill, people rightly feel that subcontractors should also have that benefit. The 45 day payment period is also defined. It applies in cases where there is no written contract. There is also a power under section 10 to reduce that period by order. There is an opportunity for progressive improvements in payment practices over time.

Section 2 deals with the commencement date of the Bill while section 3 provides that the Minister may changes the list of public bodies covered by the legislation. However, a Minister cannot frivolously remove bodies. He or she must give the reason for the deletion of a specific body. Ministers cannot decide off their own bat that certain bodies should not be covered by the Bill.

Section 4 is the key provision. It provides for the prompt payment of accounts and requires purchasers to pay for the supply of goods and services by the prescribed payment date. If payment is not made by the due date, the purchaser must pay an interest penalty on the amount outstanding. The interest must be paid in respect of the period beginning on the day after the due date of payment and ending on the date on which payment is made. Most importantly, the section specifically provides that the interest penalty cannot be waived by the supplier. Moreover, the interest penalty must be paid without any demand for its payment by the supplier.

The automatic entitlement to interest in respect of late payments is a fundamental requirement for the effective operation of the legislation. Suppliers are in a vulnerable position vis-á-vis large purchasers. If they were open to pressure not to demand payment, an unfair situation, which section 4 specifically prevents, would develop. Section 4 also sets down when payments shall be taken to have been made by the purchaser which can be in one of three ways — when the supplier has received the appropriate amount of cash, when the appropriate amount is credited to the suppliers account or when the purchaser enables the suppliers to credit his or her account; in other words if they issue a cheque which is in the possession of the supplier.

Section 5 is designed to address situations where an incorrect or inadequate invoice is furnished by a supplier. It ensures if there is a problem with an invoice, the purchaser is given ten days to return it if he believes it has been incorrectly made out. The interest penalty would not accure until ten days after the purchaser receives a corrected invoice or until the payment due date arrives, whichever is the later. If the purchaser is late in returning the invoice to the supplier, then the ten day period of grace allowed for payment after receipt of the corrected invoice will be reduced by the corresponding number of days. If the purchaser lets it drift to 15 days, the day's grace will be cut back to five days. This will ensure people do not deliberately dispute invoices to get a period of grace.

Section 6 specifies that when any payment which includes an interest payment is made, it must be accompanied by a notice stating the amount of the interest penalty included and the rate at which and the period for which the interest penalty was computed. The Minister may prescribe additional information in the light of experience which will have to be provided in invoices or in such payments. This ensures clarity in the way this operates and over time we can develop payment practices under the provisions of the Bill.

Section 7 deals with the payment of invoices in disputes. I have provided for the partial payment of invoices in disputed situations so that if one item in an invoice is disputed, the entire payment cannot be held up but only the disputed item.

Section 8 provides for the resolution of disputes and it gives the supplier the option of submitting to arbitration disputes relating to the payment of an interest penalty. This meets a concern which I am sure is shared by Senators that going to court is not always the best way in which to deal with these matters. This gives the option, at the suppliers discretion, to go to arbitration as an alternative. If the purchaser refuses to co-operate with the supplier, there is a provision for the appointment of an arbitrator by the president of the Law Society or another person prescribed by the Minister.

Section 9 is designed to ensure that main contractors on public sector contracts pass on to their subcontractors the benefits of being paid promptly. That is the only area in which the private sector is affected and it is only fair. Section 10 provides that the Minister may, by order, following consultation with the Minister for Finance, fix the rate of penalty interest which will apply to late payments. It allows the Minister to amend it as time goes on and ensures a penalty rate of interest which is linked to the market rate. Section 10 also allows the 45 day payment period to be reduced by ministerial order.

Section 11 provides a major sareguard against public sector bodies seeking unreasonably long payment periods in written contracts. It gives the Minister the power to police the payment practices of public bodies. If the Minister decides the contract used by a public body is unfair and it should be compelled to pay within the 45 day period for reasons of natural justice, he will have to advise the public body of the grounds for believing its credit terms are unreasonable and afford it the opportunity to respond before the order is made.

Section 12 is intended to ensure transparency in regard to payment practices by public bodies. It will require all public bodies listed in the Schedule to disclose details of their payment practices. Where the body is required, by statute, to publish an annual report, the report must include details of the payment practices in the period covered by the report. Where a public body is not required to publish an annual report, it must submit an annual review of its payment practices to the Minister who then has the power to specify the kind of details which must be included in the reports.

Section 13 provides that every auditor auditing the affairs of a body must report on whether that body has complied with the provisions of the Act. That is an important protection which is built in to ensure this is given a high level of importance within the company and is part of their audit.

Section 14 deals with the areas of tax clearance certificates and withholding tax. The section makes it clear that the Act does not require the payment of an amount due to a supplier who has failed to comply with a request to provide a tax clearance certificate and it extends the time limit for payment where there are delays in furnishing such certificates. The section also makes it clear that the leglislation will not affect the power to deduct withholding tax from any payment to a supplier.

Section 15 is a standard section which empowers the Minister to make necessary regulations under the Act. Section 16 is also a standard provision which deals with the short title and commencement of the Bill.

This legislation has long been regarded as important as it would improve the climate for small businesses. It will ensure that public sector bodies will move from their present payment practices to establish best practice in this area. I commend the Bill to the House.

The Minister for Enterprise and Employment is the last Minister to come into the House this session. This Bill will be exceptionally well regarded by suppliers to the public service. As someone who has been a supplier to the public service since 1957, one of the problems I have had is late payments. Sometimes the payments are late because of inefficiencies within the system, not because people deliberately wanted to delay payments. Invoices often had to be transferred from one point to another and it was the norm rather than the exception for the payment to be made after 45, 60 or 70 days.

Efficiencies have been achieved within the public service and I hope the Minister's wishes in regard to prompt payments will be well publicised. There are implications in the Bill which I would like the Minister to address. How will the Minister for Finance ensure that public bodies have the necessary cash on hand to make payments? Health boards, councils, corporations and other bodies are often strapped for cash and suppliers are the last people to be paid. If the Minister for Finance does not address the issue of payments to the public service, this Bill will not stand up.

I am delighted the Minister mentioned that interest charges would be levied in the case of late payment but he did not outline what they would be. The biggest interest charge at the moment is the 1.5 per cent per month levied by the tax authorities. Will the Minister guarantee at least that to suppliers who are owned payments as that is the figure charged to businesses by the tax authorities for late payment of taxes? The Minister should give suppliers a guarantee to this effect.

I welcome the Bill. It would be foolish to delay its passage.

I am conscious of Senator Lanigan's comments and I will not unduly delay the passage of the Bill. I welcome it. I have made representations to the Minister about enacting such legislation. I acknowledge his success in bringing this Bill forward, despite time constraints, as the last piece of legislation in this session.

The Minister and Senator Lanigan outlined the difficulties suppliers, contractors and subcontractors encountered getting payments from public bodies. I note Senator Lanigan's point about ensuring public bodies have funds to make payments as required under this legislation. One of the reasons implementation of the legislation is being put back to the beginning of next year is to allow time for the appropriate mechanisms to be put in place ensuring the system works from the Department of Finance to the smallest, supplier or contractor.

Having received representations from suppliers, contractors and particularly subcontractors, we are aware of the cash flow problems created by late payments. We all know of small businesses put out of business because of such problems. Tendering, which suppliers and contractors inevitably have to undertake for the products they provide, is always competitive and margins are always tight. In the case of small operators, delays in receiving payment create serious financial difficulties and, when they go out of business, jobs are lost. Our priority should be the maintainance of jobs in addition to the creation of new ones. I congratulate the Minister for responding to an obvious need, despite the pressures of time.

While the terms of the Bill relate to the public sector and bodies specified in the Schedule, I wish to refer to difficulties which arise, for example, in the construction industry in relation to projects undertaken for public sector bodies. The practice of delayed payments is especially difficult when the main contractor is waiting for payment and the subcontractors, who suffer most, being put at the end of the quene. This situation was effectively outlined in the construction industries' magazine in June 1996. Organisations representing suppliers, small businesses and subcontractors have made continuous representations to many of us about the difficulties caused by late payments. We have raised these concerns with the Minister and his Department.

A suppliers recently outlined a case to me in relation to a subcontractor supplying a main contractor. The Subcontractor was owed £44,000 for work done. In an effort to extract payment from the main contractor, the subcontractor offered a discount of £8,000 on the £44,000, even though that represented very competitive tendering for the job. Despite that, because of the delayed payment from the public body to the principal contractor, the subcontractor was paid only £17,000 of the £44,000 owed. Problems like that can lead to small operations going out of business, with resultant job losses.

I have discussed the Bill with some of the representative bodies. They welcome it and regard it as a step in the right direction. They are particularly anxious that serious consideration be given to extending the legislation to cover the private sector where similar difficulties are being experienced. The Minister has advanced reasons this has not been done. He referred to the codes of practice in the private sector — a recent innovation. We must recognise that many organisations which operate within the private sector are not party to these codes of practice and are not compelled to abide by them.

The Minister said the codes of practice and their operation will be kept under continuous review by his Department. He indicated that a decision will be made on whether legislation to extend what is being applied to the public sector should be applied to the private sector when the Bill has been in operation for three years. That period — in view of the circumstances and conditions that prevail — is too long. The Bill will come into effect on 1 January 1998, which is six months away and the Minister said the Bill must have operated in the public sector for three years before the Department can consider applying it to the private sector. This brings the period to three and a half years. That is not good enough.

I welcome what the Minister has done and congratulate him on it. I also thank him for his response to the representations I and others have made to get this legislation on the Statute Book. The examination period of three years for the codes of practice and how they operate — and indications are they are not operating as satisfactorily as it was hoped — is too long. Bearing in mind that the legislation will not came into effect until the beginning of next year, one year after that should be sufficient to enable the Department and the Minister to make a decision on the desirability of applying the provisions of this legislation to the private sector.

Another point has also been made to me by subcontractors and small suppliers. The Minister may say this is not appropriate to his Department — and this may be the case — but, they are looking for a simplified system of court procedure for the recovery of payments. Organisations and suppliers concerned are deterred from taking legal action as the amount owed to them is quite small and may not offset the expense of going to the Circuit or High Courts.

As to the European dimension in prompt repayments, in May 1995 the European Commission issued a recommendation on the payment period for commercial transactions which incorporated the public and private sectors. Member states were requested to inform the Commission, before the end of the year, what action should be taken to implement this recommendation. In June 1996 the European Parliament asked the Commission to bring forward a directive covering issues in the recommendation. The issue of private contracts and their payments will have to be dealt with shortly. While we will observe how well the codes of practice work the only option left will be to legislate after the European institutions have made their recommendations.

I welcome the inclusion in the Bill of the automatic right to interest and I will raise this matter with the Minister when we reach the appropriate section. Senator Lanigan has already referred to it. What would the Minister consider to be the appropriate rate of interest on late payments if this Bill was enacted from today? The Minister has included the automatic right because if he had not it would act as a deterrent to small suppliers seeking interest because of the competitive nature of tendering for these projects.

The Bill has been produced against a background of time constraints. I thank the Minister and his officials for enacting the Bill and meeting the May deadline. In the face of a general election the Minister could have taken the easy option and left the Bill to be dealt with at a later stage. It is a tribute to the Minister that he enacted the Bill. He deserves the goodwill and the recognition of the organisations, suppliers and businesses that will benefit from what he has done. In conclusion, the Minister has put an unacceptable situation right and ensured fair play for people who were left in a vulnerable situation because of the way the old system worked. While I welcome the Bill I ask the Minister to give early consideration to its introduction to the private sector. I do not think we will have a great deal of work on Committee Stage. A letter dated 13 May which I received from the consultative committee of the Accountancy Bodies of Ireland expressed concern regarding what is required of its members under section 13. It suggests that certain amendments or changes should be made to take account of those concerns. However, on the basis of the practical realities and that the Lower House has been dissolved, the balance of advantage lies in proceeding with the Bill as it stands. The accountancy bodies will have to wait for another occasion on which to deal with what appear to be genuine concerns because the balance of advantage rests with the early passage of the legislation.

I welcome the Bill and I congratulate the Minister on meeting the deadline, particularly as this is the last legislation with which the House will deal. I prepared a 45 minute speech but, having heard Senator Lanigan's statement that anyone who delayed the Bill would be a fool, I will risk trying to cover the points I intend to raise in a shorter time.

The Bill highlights the importance of cashflow to every business, particularly smaller concerns. Few people, even those involved in business, realise the critical importance of cashflow to the survival of a business. A company can be profitable but it can still go to the wall because it did not manage its cashflow properly. A large proportion of the funding required for business concerns the need for working capital, which could be reduced by better cashflow management. If the State wishes to encourage small and medium sized business — I have always argued that it should and I am aware that the Minister is committed to doing so — measures of this kind are important and necessary. It is crazy that the State should try to encourage small businesses, while its agencies cripple those businesses by strangling their cashflow.

It is not the length of time involved in obtaining payment that is important, it is the uncertainty about when one will obtain payment. If uncertainty exists proper cashflow management is almost impossible. People await the postman's arrival each day in the hope that he will deliver a cheque. Small businesses waste precious management time chasing those who pay late. As Senator Lanigan stated, the Revenue Commissioners realised this many years ago and made it clear that late payment would incur a prohibitive rate of interest. Some businesses, including Departments and State agencies, do not pay until they have been asked to do so on several occasions. As a result, the cost to suppliers is enormous.

My next point, which was also made by the Minister and Senator Howard, relates to the focus of the Bill which, at present, is only concerned with public bodies. The question of tackling prompt payment in the private sector is being put in abeyance to see if a voluntary code of practice can improve the situation. It is right to move forward one step at a time and the Minister's actions are correct. If prompt payment was made a legal requirement in the private sector, small businesses would probably be the worst offenders — not because they want to be bad payers but because they are obliged to be. Small businesses cannot become better payers until the larger companies they supply improve their payment practices. Since the worst perpetrators are often State companies and organisations it makes sense to break the vicious circle at the top. As the Minister stated, we can then proceed with other considerations.

A word of caution to the Minister or whoever deals with the next stage of the process. There is a danger this might be applied only to larger businesses and not smaller ones. I accept this is often done for worthy motives but I fear small businesses will infer they should not expand their operations or employ further staff. This tells small businesses that if they grow bigger or take on more people they will lose State benefits. I urge caution about this, as I have in the past about tax and benefits. There is a danger that if we support small businesses only we place a barrier on them getting bigger. This nation needs businesses that are willing to grow.

Why is the State such a bad payer? Budgetary constraints are not the issue and even if they were they would not justify making suppliers suffer. The real problem is the fundamental difference in the attitude of the public and private sectors to time. In the private sector time is of the essence; in the public sector it never or rarely is. This shows where we must focus to bring about the change we need. This is welcome legislation but we should not expect it to change entrenched attitudes overnight. That is a separate and wider job which needs to be tackled in paralled. If we could change the public sector's attitude to time, we would revolutionise at a stroke the standard and quality of the service it provides to the public. Late payment is only a symptom of a much wider disease.

I am delighted the time issue is at the heart of the SMI and I hope we will make progress on it in the next few years. On the final day of this Oireachtas, as we look back on the work the Government has done, one initiative which stands out is the SMI in its various forms. The work put into it, in the Minister's Department and elsewhere, is elsewhere. I hope it continues with enthusiasm and I am pleased the Minister has introduced the Bill. I congratulate him and wish him well.

I thank Senators for their support for the Bill. As to the cost and the cashflow problem, I agree with Senator Quinn — it is contradictory for the State to give £125 million to the IDA, £70 million to Forbairt and £20 million to CEBs while paying bills late and strangling the companies we are seeking to help. This is a once-off rescheduling of payments — in other words, the State bodies make one move from late payment practice to paying on time. That implies an interest cost because the debt previously lumped on businesses will have to be borne by the public sector. The mitigating factor is that the public sector can borrow at much lower rates of interest than businesses, particularly small businesses.

The estimate of the cost is based on calculations made in the Goodbody study, which suggests the purchaser is at fault for late payment in only 40 per cent of cases. The cost, therefore, will not always fall on public sector bodies. The cost estimate, based on interest rates, is in the range £3.9 million to £10 million. As Senator Howard said, the starting date is in 1998 so public bodies can absorb the change in their payment practices over a period and the Exchequer will have time to set aside the sums necessary to make the once-off adjustment in payments to ensure this Bill is honoured by the public sector.

I assure Senators interest charges will be based on the principle that it should be a clear disincentive. Purchasers will not have an incentive to delay their payments. They will pay a premium over interest rates but the details have yet to be worked out with the Minister for Finance and will have to be decided closer to the date on the basis of prevailing interest rates. It is based on the principle of a penalty charge so that public sector bodies will not be allowed to see this as a form of easy finance and ignore the provisions of this Bill.

I accept Senator Howard's point that there are problems in the private sector, particularly for subcontractors. He will recognise that in respect of public sector contracts, we have made sure the benefit of prompt payments is passed on to them. The Senator is right in saying we should undertake a review before the three year period expires. I will look to carry it out because the codes of practice are in place and the Bill will be enacted. I will look at an earlier date for examining payment practices in the private sector as the Senator suggested.

Notwithstanding that, I accept Senator Quinn's point that we must move in a phased way in this area. Small businesses are undoubtedly the worst in payment practices. We have to ensure the environment they operate in is sufficiently improved by public sector bodies and large businesses before we seek to introduce a legislative sledgehammer. There is a balance to be struck and I assure Senators we will do this in consultation with representatives of small and large businesses before we move forward. Business representatives who have been keen to see improvements in payment practices have introduced voluntary codes and we will co-operate. We should look at it earlier than the three year period and I will do so.

Senator Howard also raised the issue of a simpler court procedure. He is right that this goes beyond the provisions of the Bill. I hope court action will never be necessary with the arbitration provided. A public body will not want an entry in its annual report that, not only did it pay late, but it refused to heed an arbitrator's decision on late payment and insisted on being dragged through the courts. I do not envisage litigation being a main feature of this legislation. It is part of the reason we included arbitration. I accept the Senator's broader point that there is difficulty for businesses pursuing their payments. Some people suggested they should go to the Small Claims Court. It is a possibility but requires changes in the rules of court which are the responsibility of the Minister for Justice. I will talk to her about the Senator's suggestion.

There is a down side which must be borne in mind. When the Small Claims Court in the UK was extended to deal with commercial payments it got completely swamped with business claims and consumers which it was supposed to protect found they could not have their cases processed. A balance must be struck. I am aware of the initiative by the European Parliament. The Commission is currently examining the Parliament's request and the recommendation is not due to be reported on by member states until December 1997. A decision will not be taken until after that. We will watch that as it develops.

Senator Howard raised the matter of the concern of auditors. I assure him that section 13 was drafted to avoid auditors having to report on minor infringements. The words "in all material respects" were deliberately included to ensure this was the case. It is intended that auditors will conduct sufficient checks so that proper systems are in place to ensure compliance with the Bill and that breaches are reported. It is not intended that auditors conduct detailed checks of all invoices of a purchases. The Comptroller and Auditor General was consulted on the drafting of this section. In the light of these discussions, I am satisfied the role of auditors will operate effectively.

Senator Quinn went to the core of the issue when he said even profitable companies have problems with cashflow. It is clearly a contradiction to have development agencies and late payment side by side. This Bill will bring certainty into payment practices. People will know there is an outer limit of 45 days and they will not be forced beyond that, unless public sector bodies are willing to accept interest penalties on their payments, of which the business will take advantage.

The attitude to time is an important change. I hope that in November when public agencies publish what their customers can expect from them, a key feature will be prompt responses to queries and payment of grants. The public wants the delivery of quality service. As Senator Quinn knows from his company, consumers cannot be kept waiting, except perhaps on Christmas Eve. I know that to my cost from having to stand in long queues.

I thank the Senators who contributed on Second Stage and I look forward to dealing with specific matters on Committee Stage.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
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