The proposed Order of Business is items 1, 1a on the Supplementary Order Paper, 7, 2, 3 and 12, motion 11. Items 1 and 1a on the Supplementary Order Paper and 7 will be taken without debate. All Stages of item 2 will be taken today and if proceedings thereon have not previously concluded, they will resume at 8 p.m. The contributions of spokespersons on item 2 will not exceed 20 minutes while other Senators will have 15 minutes. Item 3 will be taken without debate at the conclusion of item 2. Item 12, motion 11, will be taken at 6 p.m.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. On item 7, we are being asked to pass an order without debate on winter time, which has been in effect for about eight weeks. What would happen if the House refused to pass this order?
We would turn back the clock.
I welcome the discussion on asylum and racism, on which I will have much to say. In the meantime, will the Leader refer, as a matter of urgency, to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the case of a person from an Africian country who was unceremoniously taken off a bus on which he was travelling to the mosque at 11.30 a.m. yesterday? His identity papers were demanded from him, he was interrogated as to his identity and disbelief was expressed that he was the person holding these papers. A squad car was summoned into which he was bundled. He was taken away and I understand some strip searching occurred at Pearse Street police station. He was forced to sign a document——
This appears to be a matter appropriate to the Adjournment and not the Order of Business. I have given the Senator much latitude.
The Leader will understand the nature of my concern that this type of thing should happen in a police station in this country.
Will the Leader say when it is likely that the universities Bill proposed by Deputy Spring will come before the House? Deputy Spring made a balls of the general election and the presidential election. Now it appears he wishes to make a balls of university representation in the Seanad, something which will be strongly resisted. I look forward to the opportunity of placing on the record of the House the precise reasons how and why this will occur.
The Senator should be talking about dropping the ball.
It is a load of cobblers.
Perhaps it is. Does the Leader share my concern about the enormous amount of publicity, particularly in one newspaper, regarding what was widely described this morning as a paedophile ring in Galway? It seems that, as a result of this publicity, it will be impossible for those who may be charged to have anything approximating to a fair trial in this State.
Senator Norris has been a Member of the House for a long time and is aware of what is in order on the Order of Business. I would not like Members to be under the impression that the Order of Business is a free for all during which matters of no relevance to it can be raised. I ask Members to confine their comments on the Order of Business to matters relevant to the business of the House.
I am glad the Cathaoirleach made that point.
I am sure the Senator is.
That is just sour grapes. I can understand Senator Norris's attitude because he is about to lose his privileged position as a representative of a very small section of the third level electorate; I also understand his attitude to Deputy Spring because he did not choose the Senator as a presidential candidate.
The reason was that the two people who nominated me worked in my university. Perhaps the same childish spite is in operation on this matter.
There seems to be a bigger bowl of sour grapes than I thought.
There are plenty more and I will be happy to fire them at the Senator all afternoon.
Will the Leader facilitate a debate on the task force report on drug abuse early in the new year? I was alarmed by the disclosure in the Dáil yesterday that the original commitment of £20 million to the youth services development fund has been whittled down to £1.25 million. I was at a meeting yesterday of a project, now without funding, which had been developed in the belief that that commitment would be honoured. I am sure there are dozens of projects in a similar situation. We should have a debate on this matter to elucidate the position of the Minister and the Government regarding this extremely important area of policy which should be properly funded.
Can the House find a way to honour the outgoing President of the ANC and of South Africa who yesterday stepped down as president of the ANC? The President was given the freedom of the City of Dublin and he honoured us with his presence. He is an outstanding democrat, an opposer of apartheid and fully supportive of activities against racial discrimination. This has a particular relevance to us in the context of refugee and asylum issues, remarks made by a Deputy in the Dáil and the dismantling of the 1996 refugee legislation. Nelson Mandela has made a tremendous contribution.
I am sure Senator Costello could draft an appropriately worded motion which could be put on the Order Paper for debate in the House.
The Cathaoirleach is too charitable.
Perhaps the Leader will examine a means of honouring Nelson Mandela and raise the issue at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Will the Leader assure us that the Government will have nothing to do with the Bill on the universities published by the former Minister for Foreign Affairs as it is a gross interference in the affairs of this House? Perhaps Senator Costello would remind Deputy Spring that he is a graduate of one of those colleges and that we expect more from a former Minister for Foreign Affairs than to meddle in the internal affairs of this House as the first legacy of his retirement. It would not be worthy of Deputy Spring to come into this House, for what appear to be purely vindictive reasons, to seek to meddle in the seats which are the most democratically elected in the Seanad. He should go off and solve problems in Bosnia where he is far better equipped to use his great energies and talents.
That sounds like a speech.
In view of today's incredible revelations of an alleged major paedophile ring operating in the west, when will the Child Pornography Bill come before the House? There is an absolute need for this legislation and it should be introduced as soon as possible. I condemn this alleged operation — if it exists — and I hope and pray the offenders will be brought to justice immediately. The men involved in this contemptible practice are sick, perverted and disgusting and I believe imprisonment is too good for them. I abhor the hurt and damage they cause.
We cannot debate the matter at this stage. The Senator has asked for a debate on the matter and I have allowed her to make a case for such a debate. Matters cannot be debated at length on the Order of Business.
I appreciate the Cathaoirleach's courtesy.
I concur with Senator Costello's comments on President Mandela. Will the Leader, directly or via the Minister for Foreign Affairs, convey our good wishes to him? I can think of nobody in history who has been more consistent and effective in the pursuit of his ideals. His most important contribution of all was to help to heal wounds and divisions in a post-struggle era. Ireland saw fit to honour President Mandela who, in turn, facilitated a very important conference with a view to helping us resolve our divisions in Northern Ireland.
Some weeks ago I questioned the appropriateness of a committee being called an Oireachtas committee when it had not been set up by the Houses of the Oireachtas. I refer to the Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution. If I missed a reply on the issue, I apologise. I am not aware of any resolution having been passed by this House to set up such a committee. I asked the Cathaoirleach to investigate the matter and I reiterate that request now.
I am not sure what my colleagues from Dublin University are getting so worked up about. I find it extraordinary that a university with 30,000 graduates should have three seats in this House when a university with 94,000 graduates has the same number. That is a bad start to democracy.
The Senator should check the voting rates.
I am not really bothered about what the former leader of the Labour Party does. He has certainly succeeded in getting a lot of publicity for his proposal.
I would like to have a debate on waste. We are now getting to the stage where waste is piling up outside the headquarters of political parties to be scrutinised by the entire nation. This is a problem of great proportions which must be dealt with quickly.
In conclusion, I would like Members of the House to consider some form of appropriate action to express our regret at the attempted intimidation of our President by senior members of the Roman Catholic Church in recent days.
This is ridiculous.
The idea that the Archbishop of Dublin would describe the President's behaviour as a sham is outrageous and I say that as a church going Catholic. I am extremely angry.
That is not in order on the Order of Business. If the Senator wishes to make that statement elsewhere I have no objection, but it is not relevant to the Order of Business.
May I ask the Leader once again to put the refugee issue on the Order Paper? Some weeks ago we had a debate which was a sham because the representative of the Minister for Justice told us nothing, answered none of our questions and then proposed to do a series of things, none of which was announced in this House a fortnight previously. We need to return in detail to the issue of refugees for, among other reasons, the one Senator Norris gave earlier.
I will get back to Senator Ryan on the first issue he raised.
I support the extension of Seanad voting rights to third level institutions. As a member of the governing authority of the University of Limerick I will make it a matter of priority for that body to push for that extension. Members need not feel that it is just a single party issue.
The point raised by Senator Cox is most important and has to be dealt with. It should not be pushed aside as if it were irrelevant. Paedophilia must be stamped out in society. The problem of the alleged paedophilia ring must be addressed instantly.
The Tánaiste should come to the House for a debate on IDA policy regarding jobs. I raise that matter in the light of the problems associated with a major company in my area, AST. I shudder to think what will happen to the families working there. At this moment there are husbands and wives with huge mortgages who are not looking forward to a happy Christmas. These are very relevant issues and we have no forum, other than the Order of Business, in which to raise them.
I hope Senator Jackman was not suggesting that I pushed aside the matter raised by Senator Cox as irrelevant. I asked Senator Cox to conclude her contribution on the Order of Business because there are ways of raising matters in the House under Standing Orders. I would prefer if Members used the appropriate Standing Orders of the House to raise matters on the Adjournment or by way of motion, but not without notice on the Order of Business.
I do not want to inject a note of prudishness into the proceedings, but it is in relation to the comments made earlier by my good friend and colleague, Senator Norris, and his use of language. I am curious to know if there is, under Standing Orders, a list of acceptable or non-acceptable words that can be used in the course of debate, as there is in other parliaments. I am not raising this matter in order to have a go at Senator Norris——
Feel free.
——who knows I have the highest of motives. However, I feel there should be a certain decorum in this House. As the senior legislative assembly we are supposed to provide a lead. I am concerned about it not just in this House but elsewhere. For example, there is an increasing use of questionable language by the leading characters in "Glenroe", which is the most popular soap opera on television. It is not a good example to the youth of this country.
Senator Norris would be better off not watching television.
In that context I am asking you, a Chathaoirligh, if there is such a list. I do not want to go into detail because the Cathaoirlach would rule me out of order, so I am making the point in general terms. I am not a prude, but I object to the specific words Senator Norris used earlier.
The Senator has made his point.
There are other ways of using the words. We all know he is a very witty man.
I was corrupted by RTÉ television.
Before the conclusion of business in this session at the end of the week, will the Leader arrange for a full and proper debate in this House, with the Minster for Health and Children in attendance, on the situation regarding the risks of CJD infection in the blood supply? I raised the matter on the Adjournment on 19 November when the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children admitted that risks or potential risks were associated with all blood products. We have been led to believe over the past few days that the Irish Medicines Board was, at that time, in possession of some information relating to the current difficulty, but that was not transmitted here. If, as the Minister of State has admitted, there are risks, they should be fully assessed by the Department. The matter should be dealt with in a full, forthright and open fashion. No matter how small the risk, people should not continue to hear over the public airwaves, on a case by case or problem by problem basis, that they may have been infected. The proper way to do it is by way of a full risk assessment and I believe this House could appropriately seek an emergency debate with the Minister on that.
I support the call for a debate on waste management which is of major concern to both the Government and local authorities. It is an issue which will be costly to address in the future.
Given the British Prime Minister's comments last week that neither he nor his Government could be expected to be persuaders for a united Ireland, will the Leader consider having a debate very soon on Northern Ireland? We have had such debates before and it would be greatly appreciated if we could have this one early in the new term. I hope it would add to the ongoing debate on the most important issue facing our country.
Will the Leader have a debate as early as possible in the new year on the most important issue in this country, Northern Ireland? I raised this issue two weeks ago, but a new situation has developed over the weekend with the breakdown of progress in the talks and disturbances and riots in Derry. It is a city we in the north-west cherish deeply and which has built itself up over the past number of years. Marches are allowed through it on a regular basis, with three or four during the year, and a solution to the problem would be to stop all these marches immediately. Will the Leader put the matter on the agenda for discussion as early as possible because it is a very important issue for the people of the north-west?
Over the past number of years two Garda operations have been put in place: Operation Freeflow, which has been put in place again this year, and Operation Shannon. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform what is the up to date position on the latter? It should be put in place over Christmas week and the next few months.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources to examine the safety regulations applying to marine farming along the seas and the west coast in the interests of public safety? The tragic death of a young man involved in this area occurred two days ago, so there is a need for the Department to apply strict safety codes to such operations. There has been loss of life over the years in this area and a little more care might be better in the long term.
I remind the Leader he agreed that, in the pornography Bill, the infamous sex chat lines would be removed from major newspaper conglomerates who lecture us on propriety and who also publish the numbers of these lines. As the Fine Gael spokesperson on the family and the community, I am concerned about shops in this capital which are openly trading in hard core videos. Is anyone capable of stopping this flood of filth? Will the Leader refer the matter to the relevant Minister to see if action can be taken now to remove this material? Three shops in one street are now openly trading in specially imported hard core videos.
On Senator Manning's first point, this is not the first time this has happened in the House and the Senator knows that.
I will pass on Senator Norris's views and concerns to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform as requested.
Senators Norris, Ross and Jackman requested a debate on the university panels, the various proposals for them and an overall review of the Seanad. I will have a debate as early as possible in the next session to facilitate the Senators. Senators Costello and Ó Murchú expressed sentiments on the retirement of Nelson Mandela as leader of the ANC. I concur with their views and I will pass them on to the Minister for Foreign Affairs so that he may convey them to Mr. Mandela.
I will arrange for a debate requested by Senator Costello on the task force on drugs. That would be a worthwhile debate and, hopefully, we will have it in the second or third week of the next session. Senators Cox, Jackman and Ridge called for the introduction of the Child Pornography Bill. This Bill will be before the House in February. It is long overdue and many calls have been made for it to be introduced in this session.
I will agree to the calls from Senators Ryan and Walsh for a debate on waste. If one of the groups wishes to introduce that Bill in Private Members' time in February I would be only too pleased to discuss it. As a former member of the committee in charge of this issue in the last Government, I know it is a major problem for local authorities; it is far bigger and more costly than many people realise.
Senator Jackman called for a debate on IDA policy making and its past achievements. I will liaise with the Minister for Enterprise and Employment to see when this debate can be taken. We will take it at the earliest opportunity. I note Senator Mooney's concerns and I am sure that you, a Chathaoirligh, will bear them in mind. Senator Gallagher called for a debate on health. I will contact the Minister's office to see how I can progress this request.
Senators Walsh and Bonner called for a debate on Northern Ireland. We have been keeping this matter under review and we will have such a debate at the earliest opportunity. I deplore the events in Derry last weekend. They do nothing but harm to the nation and that part of our country. It is not helpful to the peace talks. I will contact the Ministers for the Environment and Local Government and Justice, Equality and Law Reform about points made by Senator Burke. Those Ministers are responsible for Operation Freeflow and Operation Shannon respectively. Both operations have been an enormous success and I concur with the Senator's wishes.
Senator Chambers expressed concerns on marine safety codes. I will pass on these views to the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources. Senator Ridge expressed concerns which I will pass on to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to see if anything can be done. I will come back to the Senator at the earliest possible opportunity.
Order of Business agreed to.