The Order of Business for today is items 1, 2 and 3: item 1 Committee and Final Stages; item 2 to be taken without debate and all Stages of item 3 to be taken immediately after item 1.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. While I know there is a heavy day's business today, the House and the Leader are agreed that we are facing a scandal on a monumental scale. It is one which could undermine the entire banking system and it certainly does great harm to confidence in that system. Will the Leader agree to make time available at some stage today for a series of statements on the events in National Irish Bank? We are dealing here with fraud and theft on a wide and pervasive scale. We are dealing with very obvious contempt for the rights of customers. The House must be assured today that the Government is doing everything it can to get to the bottom of this controversy and put in place all the required mechanisms. We must be assured also that the Central Bank is doing all it can in the circumstances. The public needs to be assured that the banking system itself is taking its responsibilities seriously and that it is putting in place independent mechanisms to ensure all of us that the practices that have been unearthed are of a one off nature and are not common to the entire banking system. For all these reasons I ask the Leader to make time available today for statements on this matter. I know he will agree that this is a matter that concerns all of us.
I support that call and I have already raised the matter with the Leader of the House. It has to be done today. Money is already moving from banks to mattresses at this stage. We have spent generations trying to convince people of the safety of putting money in banks but there has now been a body blow to the confidence and trust in that system. It is a bigger issue than NIB.
It is important for us to hear from the Tánaiste on the current position, outlining exactly what the Government intends to do. Members should be allowed an opportunity to make brief statements on the matter. However brief the period for statements might be, the time should be made available today.
The Order of Business is agreed. I support the call for a debate today on the banking system, particularly in relation to National Irish Bank. The appalling vista, where a bank is seen to be robbing its customers, has happened. It is certainly a new definition of an Irish bank robber where the action has been taken by the bank itself.
Will the Leader arrange an early debate at which the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment will be present? We must be satisfied about the steps that are being taken. Four inquiries are going on already and an inspector will be coming in, but there has not been a single word about a Garda investigation even though this is a clear case of fraud which has been admitted by the authorities. We must restore credibility in the banking system at the earliest stage, otherwise we will have a serious crisis. I fully support the call for a debate on the banking system and, in particular, on National Irish Bank.
I agree with Members that it would be desirable to discuss this matter at the earliest opportunity given the scale of the scandal and the potential for damage on a wider level. The Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment said this morning that all these matters will be investigated very fully and that she expected people would have their interest repaid and would be compensated. She also suggested that people who were responsible within the bank should be severely dealt with. The Government is taking action and I am sure that any constructive proposals from the Opposition will be acted upon.
We also need to discuss the regulatory and licensing aspects from the point of view of the Central Bank. I expect the Associated Banks will move rapidly to reassure their customers and the wider public that nothing like this has happened in any of the other banks. That is a matter of some urgency. I agree we should debate this matter at the earliest opportunity. I hope we will be able to make contact with the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment or other Ministers who might be involved to ensure that somebody will be able to attend the House for such a debate.
Before I call the next Senator who has offered on the Order of Business, I want to point out that there have been requests from all the party leaders for a debate on the banking system. I will not allow a debate on this matter on the Order of Business, but I am satisfied that the Leader will give careful consideration to the requests that have been made.
I would hate to break your ruling so early, a Chathaoirligh, but I have raised this issue in the House twice in the last month — on the Central Bank Bill and on the day when the largest bank announced the biggest profits ever in the State. I have a particular interest in the matter. While time constraints will possibly not allow us to debate the issue fully today, sufficient time should be given at a later date. I support the call to investigate the matter.
I hope we will have a positive reaction from the Leader and that a Minister will come to the House for a debate on this extremely important matter. It is a serious and worrying day for every bank customer in the country, but particularly for customers of National Irish Bank. It is a bad day for banking but a good one for journalism. As a former RTÉ journalist, I want to put on the record my great pride in the work that has been done by the RTÉ newsroom and the support given by RTÉ management to the pursuance of this story. That was particularly so this week when the bank itself attempted a pre-emptive strike to suggest it was being harassed by journalists who were simply asking questions in the public interest, and quite rightly as we now see. In the past, we have criticised journalists so it is important that when the opportunity arises — particularly on this occasion, when journalists are acting in the public interest, as they are supposed to do — we should give them credit. The most important question that must be raised is the role of the Central Bank.
The Senator is now entering into a debate on the banking system and I cannot allow that on the Order of Business. I am sure it will take place in due course.
Interpreting your positive remarks regarding the possibility of having a debate on the issue today, I will hold my comments until then.
I have no control over when the debate will be held but I said I was certain the Leader would give careful consideration to the points which have been made.
Will the Leader arrange a debate at an early date on telephone masts? I have consistently asked for such a debate. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will receive a deputation concerning the matter today. Will the Leader arrange for the Minister responsible to answer questions in the House why Esat Digiphone was allowed to enter the secure area of a Garda barracks, erect aerials and cause so much confusion? The public at large, even those who are not involved, are entitled to be told why this breach of security was necessary. The public has a right to have their fears allayed. I am asking for a debate which I have consistently sought here. I trust the Leader will arrange such a debate, although I realise it is a question of priorities.
Thank you, Senator, you have made your case very well.
Alarm and dismay were expressed by Members of the Oireachtas and members of the public that a woman prisoner, with serious psychiatric illness, was detained for three weeks in a padded cell in Mountjoy prison. I do not know why people were so surprised because year after year the visitors' reports point out the lack of adequate psychiatric services for people with psychiatric illness who are detained in Mountjoy.
For the past six months I have been asking the Minister for Health and Children to publish the 1996 report of the inspector of mental hospitals. I also asked the Leader if he could arrange for the report to be published. I have also tabled a motion to this effect which was supported by the other Independent Senators. The House should debate the report. Will the Leader see if anything can be done to bring forward these extraordinarily important reports? There is little point in us decrying what happens in Mountjoy Prison when it is perfectly obvious the Governor can do nothing due to the lack of facilities within the Central Mental Hospital.
I join in the call for a debate on the banking system. A few years ago the taxpayers bailed out a bank which invested a great deal of money foolishly abroad. Since then the bank has made billions of pounds in profits and it has made no effort to pay back the taxpayers. This should form part of our debate on the matter too. I do not think we could do it in an hour or two. We would need a day to debate this issue. All the banking institutions are making unreasonable profits at present.
We cannot debate the matter now. All those points will be very relevant to the debate when it takes place.
I want to make the point that I want the debate to be wide enough to encompass the whole banking system and not just the NIB. It should include the building societies, etc., because I am worried about the unreal profits of those organisations. The people who are paying for that profit are poor working class people trying to pay for mortgages, etc., and ordinary people in business. It is not right that any institution should be allowed to make such profits.
I strongly support Senator Farrell's call for a debate. I have, as you, a Chathaoirligh, and the Leader know, called not only in this session but in previous sessions for such a debate. Deputy Batt O'Keeffe has continually called from the Fianna Fáil back benches for a debate on the banking system.
This is a serious situation. The banks shift matters around. They refuse to allow the personal customer to have a proper relationship with the bank manager. There are masses of dormant accounts where people have died and the banks make no attempt to trace these. I know of one case in which——
All those points will be relevant to the debate when it takes place and I am sure Senator Norris will have an opportunity to contribute.
I completely accept that, a Chathaoirligh. May I finish by asking that this debate should cover all the financial institutions, including the insurance companies, which also need the examination of Members of this House.
I congratulate RTÉ in exposing the National Irish Bank. I called here on several occasions for a debate on the sale of State assets, the ICC, the ACC and the TSB, and I would extend that to take in the whole banking set up. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate in this House on the banking system and the sale of the State assets to which I referred.
I ask the Leader when we might expect some movement on the National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill, 1998. This is the Bill which will set up the State claims agency responsible for handling personal injury and damages claims made against the State. There have been a number of very serious claims made against the State and I understand the State has agreed to move on this Bill rather speedily. We have not heard anything about it for some months. I would welcome the opportunity to know when we may handle it.
On the last request from Senator Quinn, I will let the Senator know about that in the morning.
Senators Manning, O'Toole, Costello, Dardis, Norris, Bonner, O'Meara and Farrell called for a debate or statements on the crisis which now exists with the National Irish Bank. The Tánaiste has very kindly agreed to come into the House at 4 p.m. for one hour. She is in the Dáil from 12.30 p.m. to 2.30 p.m. and taking Parliamentary Questions until 3.50 p.m.. With the permission of the House, I will allow one hour from 4 p.m. to 5 p.m. If the remainder of the business has not concluded by then, it will continue until all Stages of the Bills I ordered earlier are concluded.
Senator McGowan asked for a debate on telephone masts and I have agreed to take this matter. I am delighted to see the Senator has recovered from his illness and is back with us in full health. I will now allocate time when he is available to make the contribution he has sought to make over the past number of months.
On Senator Henry's request for a debate on the serious position which she outlined regarding the mental health reports, I am endeavouring to facilitate the Senator as I assured the House previously. I will facilitate the Senator in this at the earliest possible opportunity.
Finally, on Senator Burke's request for a debate on the ICC, the ACC and the TSB, I have given my word to do this. I am trying to get time for the matter. As the Senator will be aware, there are seven more Bills waiting to come before the House and Ministers are anxious to have them debated here and there is legislation to go through the House before Easter. Taking all those matters into account, I do not think I will be able to allocate time to this matter until the first or second week after the Easter recess.
I suggest the allocation of time for the Statements on the bank issue would be five minutes per speaker.
Perhaps we can have the Whips discuss the amount of time being allocated to speakers.
I have no objection to that.
Order of Business agreed to.