East Timor: Statements.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Ms O'Donnell)

The situation in East Timor has long been a source of great concern to the Irish Government. In particular, our concerns have arisen from the persistent violation of human rights in East Timor and the failure of the Indonesian authorities to respond to the calls of the international community in this regard. The Government has strongly advocated that the people of East Timor must be allowed to realise their long held desire for self-determination. The Government has also strongly supported the efforts carried out under the auspices of the Secretary General of the United Nations to find a negotiated settlement on this issue.

In recent days, there has been a number of significant developments, some of which are encouraging, but some of which also give grounds for further concern. There has been a number of indications that Indonesia has been reviewing its hitherto hardline position on East Timor and earlier reports now appear to be borne out by the most recent statements from Jakarta which seem to demonstrate a readiness to move in a positive direction. There has been considerable speculation as to the reasons for such change at this point. It appears that a change in the attitude of Australia, combined with indications of height ened US concerns, as well as Indonesia's own considerable domestic difficulties – political and economic – have been factors in this regard.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Andrews, described, in a statement issued on 1 February, the detailed discussions he has had on this issue recently with both the UN Secretary General, Mr. Kofi Annan, and the Portuguese Foreign Minister, Mr. Gama. The Minister expressed his full support for the efforts of the United Nations to find a negotiated solution and his hope that the talks in New York between Portugal and Indonesia would prove successful. The Minister also stressed Ireland's readiness to offer assistance to the United Nations should it decide to despatch observers and monitors to East Timor in order to oversee the ceasefire and the military withdrawal which he hoped would soon be put in place.

One positive step that has now been taken by the Indonesian authorities was the release this week of the resistance leader, Xanana Gusmao, from prison. Regretfully, however, he has not yet been accorded full liberty as he remains under house arrest. However, he is able to maintain contacts with others who are working for a settlement in East Timor and is endeavouring to reduce the heightened tension in East Timor which risks exploding into major violence at any point. There have been some alarming reports from East Timor in recent weeks that Indonesia has been arming certain elements in the populations who might be opposed to full independence with a view to fermenting internal strife and providing a pretext for further Indonesian military action. It is vital that violence be avoided since such violence would put the progress which has been achieved at risk.

Ireland has, and will continue to be, active in the European Union in seeking to ensure that the weight of the EU is brought to bear in support of a settlement. At the European Council in Vienna on 11-12 December, the EU called for a real and substantial reduction in the Indonesian military presence, the liberation of all political prisoners and the establishment in East Timor of a permanent UN presence.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs has made known his intention to visit Jakarta and Dili at an early date in order to show solidarity with the East Timorese cause and support the efforts to promote a just settlement, leading to self-determination.

Mr. Norris

I am very grateful to the Leader for making time available for statements on East Timor and to the Minister of State for coming into the House during a very busy schedule. It is important we keep on top of what is a very complex and developing situation. The Minister's speech has reassured me considerably that the Department of Foreign Affairs is clearly in tune with the situation in East Timor.

It is clear there is a campaign of disinformation coming out of Jakarta; even some of the most sophisticated publications have fallen for it. The Irish Times, which has taken a very keen interest in this matter, carried a very interesting report by Conor O'Clery, the headline of which was completely misleading. It suggested the Indonesians were backing the notion of a referendum on independence and free choice for the East Timorese people. At the very end of the report, there was an isolated paragraph taken from Associated Press that the Indonesians had denied this completely. One must be very careful about such articles.

Another headline in The Irish Times implied that loyalists might use arms against the threat of independence. When I read it first, I thought it referred to Northern Ireland. Who are these loyalists? To what are they loyal? We know precisely who they are. They are a dissident rump which is currently being armed by the Indonesians in a cynical manouevre so that they can leave the area and then say “look what happened when we left; civil war broke out”. It seems to me they are determined to promote and provoke a civil war in Indonesia. If the international community is not very careful, we may witness precisely the same shameful situation which developed in the Congo after the precipitous withdrawal of the Belgians. That would be disastrous.

I am very glad the Minister, Deputy Andrews, together with the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, has played such a significant and important role in this process. I welcome his indication in recent days that Irish personnel would be made available as part of the UN monitoring group to act as peace envoys and to control the situation by being witnesses to it. It is very important that the UN would have personnel in East Timor.

I suggest that contact be maintained at the very highest level with the Timorese authorities – perhaps that is happening. I am very glad Xanana Gusmao has been released to a half-way post; he is now in administrative detention and is in a position to issue statements and press conference details. We should contact him directly and offer our services to assist in the peace process. A deal must not be done behind the backs of the Timorese people. It is worrying that the principal discussions at international level are being held between the Indonesian and Portuguese authorities, thereby sidelining those with a direct interest, namely, the Timorese people. That worries me.

I request that this short series of statements and the Minister's very important text be sent to the UN, to Jakarta and to Xanana Gusmao. In particular, they should be sent to Jam Sheed Marker, the UN rapporteur with special responsibility for East Timor. Everything we do, even on the periphery of Europe, will add something positive to the equation for the Timorese people.

One of the problems is that the Indonesians are still arming paramilitary units. If one reads between the lines of Ali Alatas's statements, it is perfectly obvious what will happen. Let us be frank: commercial interests are involved and appeared to cement the fate of the Timorese with the notorious Timor Gap Treaty. International business, including multinationals, are now getting nervous. It is perfectly clear, for example, that Exxon is putting pressure on the Indonesian Cabinet. President Habibi clearly indicated to his cabinet colleagues that there was going to be a change of attitude. I do not think Alatas liked that, as was clear from the petulance of his statements. He clearly indicated that if the Timorese wanted their independence Indonesia would give it to them, but there was a kind of threat in it which said "See how you will like it when you get in the circumstances in which we are prepared to give it".

Paramilitary units are continuing to intimidate villagers who are being drawn in again to Dili, away from their native environments. Up to 7,000 have fled to Dili in the past couple of weeks. This is designed to give the lie to the outside world that the Timorese people are divided about their own future. They are not divided, but the Indonesians are attempting to produce such an appearance for international public consumption.

It is not absolutely clear that the Indonesians have made their minds up to get out, and it is certainly not clear that they have decided to do so cleanly. The mellifluous soothing sounds emerging from Jakarta are much more likely to be related to the fact that the Indonesians are interested in a positive approach to the next round of international funding which comes on stream this year. It is extremely important that there is a UN presence on the ground and that there is a withdrawal of Indonesian troops. I hope Ireland may be able to play a role as indicated by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Andrews. In order for independence to work, there must be a staged, monitored and controlled process of decolonisation and not a prescriptive process. For it to work I would like to urgently call for the immediate commencement of the disarming of the various paramilitary factions in East Timor.

It is interesting to note in the context of all this positive material which is being put out, some of which is probably true although we must be very careful, that even last week the Indonesian Government refused to allow the Australian opposition spokesperson on foreign affairs, Laurie Brereton to travel to East Timor. In the past couple of weeks two Australian journalists were deported from East Timor and their names were placed on a blacklist of people who are not permitted to visit the country. This is worrying and one asks what the Indonesians are concealing?

The EU has a responsibility in this matter. Portugal is a member of the EU and for this reason, in addition to our moral concern, we should assist by making peacekeepers available to monitor the situation in East Timor.

In a statement carried in today's edition of The Irish Times Xanana Gusmao says, “What is clear is that I will be meeting with all components of the people of East Timor to reach a peaceful settlement. We all can lay the foundation for an independent East Timor state.” He is clearly going to work positively.

The Minister indicated that there may be some hesitation or difficulties from the point of view of the Indonesians, that they are worried about precipitating a volatile situation. Perhaps that will happen, but it will have to be faced. East Timor is not the only stone in the shoe of the Indonesians. They have committed crimes in other areas against their own people as well as the people of East Timor. For example, West Papua is another issue on the international agenda, and here again we have the malign intervention of the west through mining companies which displace the indigenous people, disrupt the environment and ruthlessly exploit what is essentially the property of other people.

I hope a Congolese situation will not develop in East Timor. We can help and I applaud the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, for her continuing concern in this matter. I am grateful to the Seanad for providing a brief opportunity for debate and I hope the record will be sent to the appropriate people. I also hope we will be able to continue to urge freedom for the people of East Timor.

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

I join with Senator Norris in welcoming the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy O'Donnell, to the House. This is an important debate and it is important that the views of the Minister are put on the record. I welcome what she said, particularly that the Minister for Foreign Affairs will visit East Timor as soon as possible to show full support and assist in every way to bring a resolution.

In recent months very important developments have taken place and the situation continues to be extremely fluid. There have been two important developments. Australia was the only state in that region which recognised Jakarta's presence in East Timor. The fact that Australia has now adopted the position that East Timor has a right to independence is extremely important. Another important development is that Indonesia has stated publicly and internationally that it is prepared to give autonomy to the East Timorese.

As Senator Norris said, the media and people in general recognise there are very serious problems. As Tom Hyland, the leader of the East Timorese Solidarity Campaign, stated what is happening on the ground is quite different. It is reported that a very dangerous situation has arisen where the Indonesian military is providing arms to the civilian minority in East Timor who might be opposed to full independence. I understand it is thought the UN may request Australia to become directly involved in arranging a fund to purchase guns from armed civilians on both sides.

On this side of the world – and in Ireland – we hear much talk about disarmament and a very serious situation arises in this context. It is vitally important that the arms are removed from all quarters before a resolution is found. There are 700,000 people in East Timor out of which over 200,000 have been killed in the past 24 years, together with over 1,000 Indonesian military. This is an appallingly high number. The level of atrocities committed and the violations of human rights in the area are despicable.

It is generally recognised that East Timor was a Portuguese colony and that while Portugal in a sense still has administrative powers in East Timor, the Indonesians have annexed it and buried its people for a variety of reasons, many of them economic and political. Many of the reasons also relate to the major investments mentioned by Senator Norris. Throughout the world we have seen that where there is major investment and wealth to be extracted, ordinary people are very adversely affected. East Timor is an example of this.

An initiative has commenced and it is important that the international community reacts and that the UN takes a very active part. It is also vital that at this stage, given the fluidity of the situation and the inherent dangers because of the excessive number to weapons in the civilian community, UN monitors be sent to East Timor.

I am delighted the Minister of State is in the House and that she is taking a very active interest in the area, and that the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Andrews, intends visiting East Timor. It is vital that the two Ministers, both at UN and EU level, ensure a proactive approach is taken, because for too long a deaf ear was turned to those problems. Very few countries listened to what was going on or heeded or responded to the atrocities being carried out against the ordinary population of East Timor. What happened was totally unjustifiable, although there were attempts to justify it. Equally, the response of the international community was totally unacceptable and appalling.

In the current circumstances we must be very wary of the public promises being made by Indonesia given its record. Given that it has made a public statement of intent, it is important the international community responds by moving in and assisting civilians to set up their own administration and appoint a government so that they may manage their own affairs and that the type of inherent dangers which exist may be prevented by UN monitors and perhaps a peacekeeping unit from the United Nations. If the Australian forces have to go there in a peacekeeping capacity, we should be supportive. What is vital is that these people who have been badly neglected by Portugal, the European Union and the world over the past 24 years get a positive response.

Some years ago Senator Norris and I attended a conference in Lisbon on East Timor. At that time I was appalled by the attitude adopted and the attempts by an Australian delegation and Lisbon authorities, which had arranged the con ference, to dilute the final motion which emerged from the conference. We have moved some distance since then. The fact the Indonesian Government has made a statement is important. We need action and a positive response, not lackadaisical approaches and attempts to sideline the issue. This is a serious matter. One is horrified when one considers the percentage of the people killed in East Timor given the size of the population. The level of suffering which those who remain have experienced at the hands of the Indonesian authorities over the years is appalling. They are a fine civilised people who deserve civilised treatment by the powers that be and an opportunity to establish their own administration, manage their own affairs and enjoy freedom and democracy within their area. I hope Ireland's voice will be heard in support of the case of the East Timorese people. I rely on the Government, the Minister and Minister of State to ensure everything humanly possible is done at EU and UN levels to ensure this crisis is resolved quickly.

Mr. Dardis

I welcome my Progressive Democrat colleague, the Minister of State. I commend Senator Norris for the persistent way over an extended period he has kept this matter to the forefront of public opinion in this country. I also applaud the work of Tom Hyland, of the East Timor Ireland Solidarity Campaign and others who have made sure this matter is kept prominently before the public.

In previous debates on this matter I asked why a small country on one side of the world should concern itself with the difficulties of a small island on the other side. The reason is that we share a common past – an imperial colonial past – and that we all desire self-determination, nationhood and independence. Happily, that was achieved in this part of the island of Ireland but it has not yet been achieved on the island of Timor and the part of which is East Timor. Naturally, we should be very much to the fore in supporting that move to self-determination and ensuring that the basic human rights which are fundamental to such self-determination are achieved.

In applauding Senator Norris and the others who have been associated with this matter we should also recognise the role played by the media and, in particular, John Pilger.

Mr. Norris

Hear, hear.

Mr. Dardis

Recently, we saw on television a detailed analysis of what the international arms trade had done to East Timor, how it had supported the regime in Indonesia, how members of the European Union had sent offensive weapons of war to that area and how other countries, because of a vested interest in the oil which lies close to East Timor, stayed silent in the face of genocide – and it was genocide. We do not have to rehearse the numbers killed, what happened in Dili, the massacre there and the way people were liquidated. We have done this often enough in this House.

Again, we are indebted to Mr. Pilger and others for showing the world graphically what has happened and, indeed, some paid the price with their lives trying to bring that news to us. That is why I and others are very sceptical when we are told of advances and commitments given by Indonesia and of what is intended to bring forward self-determination within East Timor. We must be cautious and verify that these intentions are achieved. That is why I agree with Senator Norris that there is a role for the United Nations and for monitoring. I am pleased to note the Minister for Foreign Affairs said we would contribute in whatever way we could to the UN effort in that respect.

We must also be aware of the role the European Union and Portugal can play in all of this – Senator Taylor-Quinn referred to the conference we attended in Lisbon. Portugal has a primary responsibility and the EU also has a responsibility in this regard. I know the Minister and Minister of State will, through our membership of the European Council, continue to progress these matters at European level to ensure that self-determination and those rights which are essential to East Timor are achieved.

The Minister has announced his intention to visit Xanana Gusmao who is under house arrest. That will send a very powerful signal in terms of Ireland's support for the cause. There is an urgency in terms of ensuring weapons are put to one side. If we, in Ireland, cannot identify with that, I do not know with what part of the East Timorese experience we can identify because it is obviously central to the peace process here as well.

The Minister said he visited the UN, as did a group of parliamentarians. I had the privilege of meeting the predecessor of the present Secretary General to discuss the case of East Timor. At that time the then Secretary General, Boutros Boutros-Ghali, was very sympathetic and supportive but we came away in the knowledge that he was circumscribed by the lack of will on the part of the international community to ensure these fundamental rights were vindicated. It was apparent that there was not a genuine commitment among the super powers to ensure this small country, which had suffered so much, would achieve its independence. We have progressed, but it has taken a long time and much persistence by the people I mentioned and with the help of Senator Norris.

I still remain sceptical about some of the signals coming out of Indonesia. I hope they are true but they need to be verified. There needs to be independent verification by the United Nations on the ground and protection of people's rights. In those circumstances, I am prepared to accept progress is being made.

Mr. Norris

I thank the Minister of State and my colleagues for taking part in this debate. Let nobody think it is not important. The massive attacks on the East Timor website by the Indonesian Government makes it clear they know perfectly well what is going on. The Minister for Information, who I have no doubt orchestrated that, was responsible for the murder of the Australian journalists.

Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.

Seanad Éireann debate - Thursday, 11 Feb 1999