Today's Order of Business is No. 1, Health (Eastern Regional Health Authority) Bill, 1998 – Committee and Remaining Stages.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreeable. I wish to raise a number of issues with the acting leader. Yesterday I raised the question of junior hospital doctors. The problem is even more serious than Members indicated yesterday. An article in today's edition of The Irish Times states: “No Irish Government has listened to them, and there has been only limited and utterly ineffective support for them amongst their supposed teachers – the hospital consultants”. That is the position – they are on their own. In yesterday's debate, we also discussed the health hazards which flow from the arrangements but the Government can resolve this problem. Commissioner Flynn said yesterday that people will want to know why there was an empty seat when this issue was being discussed at a Council meeting. We want this issue given priority and resolved. Something dreadful might happen if action is not taken.
The euro seems to be in free fall at present. It is now 12 per cent lower in value than it was at the beginning of the year. By any standards that is a catastrophic drop. International commentators blame its decline on the apparent indifference of policy-makers to tackle this issue, specifically in Italy and Portugal. This problem affects every country, particularly Ireland. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Finance to give us the Irish view on the inexorable decline in the value of the euro and its consequences?
Yesterday, the Welsh Assembly met for the first time. It is not a sovereign assembly, as ours is, but a devolved one. Nevertheless, it is the first element of real self-rule that Wales has ever had. Given the close ties between Ireland and Wales, we wish it well. We hope it will grow in power and influence. Perhaps the Leader will establish formal links between this House and the Welsh Assembly.
I support every word Senator Manning said about junior hospital doctors. It is appalling that we seem to consider it essential to follow the example of the United Kingdom's Department of Health on issues like this. We must all remind ourselves what happened with the hepatitis C scandal when there was a delay in the UK's Department of Health and that was followed by a delay in our own Department of Health. We should look at the consequences of that practice. A similar situation is arising now because we still feel we must follow the same practices in the UK with regard to junior hospital doctors. I wonder if the two health departments have split on any issues. I also support Senator Manning's call to send our good wishes to the Welsh Assembly.
I have presented the Regulation of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill, 1999, to the House. Senators will be aware that this issue is going from bad to worse. There is no legislation in this area. It appears that some members of the public feel that the ethical guidelines of the Medical Council are sufficient to cover this type of medical practice. However, not all those who work in this field are medical practitioners and they are not covered.
The ethical guidelines do not cover certain practices, such as the transfer of embryos to another couple for adoption, as Members may have heard on the radio this morning. Professor Denis Cusack, who is a lawyer as well as a doctor, spoke about the urgent need for legislation in this area. I would be grateful if the acting leader could ensure that Second Stage of my Bill is taken as soon as possible. The most bizarre suggestions have been made which could lead to terrible problems if we do not introduce legislation as quickly as possible.
I support Senator Henry's request for her Bill to be debated at an early stage.
I support the calls for a response on the issue of junior hospital doctors. We raised it on the Order of Business yesterday and we requested that the Minister for Health and Children come to the House to clarify why he was prepared to support a decision which will mean a delay of 13 years in ensuring that junior hospital doctors work a 48 hour week. We have not been given any explanation and I do not know whether the acting leader can rectify that today or confirm that the Minister will address the House on the issue.
The Labour Party has tabled an amendment to the Health (Eastern Regional Health Authority) Bill, 1998, to provide for the protection of the rights of non-consultant doctors. We would like a sympathetic response to that amendment. This issue should be addressed in any new national agreement with the Government. We cannot allow the position to continue as it is for another 13 years.
I am sure Senator Costello will make these points in support of his amendment later this morning.
The Minister should come into the House to clarify the situation. Our concerns about the outrageous hours worked by junior hospital doctors were expressed long before the directive was signed by the Minister.
Yesterday Senator Mooney raised the issue of the Irish international football match with Yugoslavia and the fact that the President of Yugoslavia, Slobodan Milosevic, has been indicted before the International War Crimes Tribunal. We should ensure that this country does not play an international match against a country the leader of which has been indicted of heinous war crimes. This matter should be brought to the attention of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, who has not taken any decision, good bad or indifferent, about the war in Serbia and Kosovo. It is time he got off the fence.
We have repeatedly called on the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to deal with the problems of gazumping and escalating house costs. No action has been taken despite promises that legislative proposals would be introduced. Perhaps the acting leader will ascertain what the Minister or the Minister of State, Deputy Molloy, propose to do to protect people who have paid a deposit on a house from losing it to the market.
We would all like a better deal for junior hospital doctors. As Pat Kenny said on the radio, this has been an issue for the past 20 years. Many of the junior doctors from that time are now senior consultants, yet they have not done anything about it. I have been a member of the North Western Health Board for 20 years and it sent resolutions to Mr. Barry Desmond and other former Ministers for Health asking them to do something about this issue, yet nothing was done. The current Minister for Health and Children is the first person to take on this thorny question and I have no doubt he will do something about it.
It is time we had a debate on the formation of a press council. Journalism has reached a low ebb across the water. For example, newspaper people paid women to cause a row with a footballer and then to tell a newspaper rather than the police. When the man was arrested, the allegation was withdrawn because it was a fabrication. A great rugby player's career has been destroyed because journalists with a hidden microphone led him on. The Royal Family was also targeted and this resulted in a full page apology in a newspaper today. What happens across the water today usually happens here tomorrow. Many senior journalists are disgusted with the direction journalism is taking. It is time to set up a press council with teeth to ensure that journalism is kept at a high standard and that we do not allow this low tabloid element to destroy a great profession.
I support the continuing calls for further information concerning the Government's position on the matter of junior hospital doctors. A number of points were made yesterday. Since then we have learned that the Tánaiste was indisposed, but political commentators said that although the illness was real, it was rather useful because the Government's position is not solid on this issue. For that reason, it is worthwhile to ventilate the issue. I am glad the Labour Party has taken the opportunity to table an amendment which I am sure I and my Independent colleagues will be able to support.
I want to raise a matter which is sensitive but which we should consider and I will make an approach to the Committee on Procedure on Privileges about it, although not with the intention of targeting any of the excellent members of staff. There is a tendency to tidy up the records of the proceedings of this House and sometimes this editorialising can be fairly extensive. I have looked at it recently and I am not happy. It is sometimes dangerous if too much can disappear or be tidied up out of charitable motives from the record of the House. In fairness to the professional people involved in this service, guidelines should be laid down with regard to the latitude given. It is all right, perhaps, to correct grammar and there is always the interpretation of punctuation, but deleting or altering substantially entire paragraphs of contributions is something the Committee on Procedure and Privileges should look at.
The generosity of my colleague, Senator Henry, is well known as is her expertise in medical matters. I am glad a Bill about assisting human reproduction is being introduced. I have run into some snags in this area and I would welcome assistance. I cannot think how this has happened but if there is any assistance forthcoming from Senator Henry's Bill, it would be most welcome.
The issue of junior hospital doctors has already been well rehearsed. I support the call for a Government statement on its position on this issue. Ireland should not be bound by a European Commission decision. The argument about a 13 year delay in the introduction of a 48 hour working week is specious and I look forward to a statement and further discussion on this.
I allude to the call for regulation of the press in which I have an interest as a director of Independent Newspapers. A proper debate on the press is needed. There is a press council in Britain.
It is of no use.
It seems not to have been able to correct the complaints with which it deals. I call on the Leader to arrange a debate on the general order of the press.
I support the concerns expressed about junior hospital doctors. I also support Senator Manning's comments on the euro. The euro has been in place for five months and the relaxations, particularly in regard to Italy, have meant that Ireland is on weak ground in regard to that which it thought it was entering. I am strongly in favour of the currency but I am concerned about what has happened, particularly in regard to Italy yesterday. It would be ideal to have a debate on this now rather than waiting. There were many debates before the euro was initiated but not a word has been said about it since. The belief was that once it was in place, it could be forgotten about.
I wish to add a strong voice to yesterday's news about gazumping, referred to by Senator Costello. It seems outrageous that there are no controls on it other than a voluntary code of practice, which is only applied to first time buyers. I was astounded to read what happened to people who thought they had bought a house and then discovered that they had not in today's newspapers. I understand that there are laws in Britain but we do not appear to have any. There is a necessity to do something about this.
The Department of Foreign Affairs has prepared a fine document on Ireland and Partnership for Peace, which makes worthwhile reading. I have asked for a debate on this in recent weeks because I am afraid of its becoming a fait accompli. It may well be worthy but we will find ourselves in PfP without having had a discussion on it and only responding to initiatives taken by the Government. We should have a debate on the document itself with great urgency because we do not have time to waste.
I welcome Senator Manning's call for a debate on the euro. It is appropriate that such a debate take place because it is five months since it was introduced. At the time the general opinion was that it would compete favourably with the dollar and the yen. That has not happened, particularly in regard to the dollar, and, while the currency is stable, an opportunity should be provided for a debate on it.
Will the Acting Leader bring to the attention of the Minister for Foreign Affairs that the War Crimes Tribunal has decided to charge Slobodan Milosevic with war crimes and that it is inappropriate for the Republic of Ireland versus Yugoslavia international soccer match to go ahead? There is international evidence at least to charge the Yugoslav leader with those crimes and in those circumstances the only protest that Ireland can make is to indicate that it will not participate in the forthcoming international soccer match. This information should be conveyed by the Government into the public arena as soon as possible.
I hope Senator Norris was not implying that the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment was unavailable yesterday. She was indisposed and nothing else should be interpreted from that.
The Universities Bill, 1997, was passed in the House two years ago and one of the conditions of its passage was that a private Bill for Trinity College, Dublin, would be introduced. It was a Bill against which the Leader and I fought shoulder to shoulder at one stage. What is the position in regard to the private Bill? My understanding is that it must be passed within three years of the passage of the Universities Bill, 1997, and, therefore, there is only one year left. If it is not passed, the proposed Bill becomes defunct or Trinity College loses its position as agreed.
I agree with Senator Manning about the need for reflection on the euro but it is a little late for Members to discuss it because we are locked into the damn thing. We can debate it until the cows come home but the time to do so was when everybody, bar Senator Ryan and I, was worshipping at the shrine of Jacques Santer in this House six to eight months ago. Everybody asked him respectful questions and sought his opinion on various issues as though he were some sort of god. Jacques Santer is gone and we are still here but we want to discuss the euro after it has been established. At that time everybody was totally content with it and said that it was a strong currency which would increase in value. Now they are saying it is not such a good idea, the Italians do not give a damn about the stability pact, the euro is losing value and they do not even like what the European Commission has decided about junior hospital doctors.
That debate is over and everybody in this House appears to have got it wrong, bar Senator Ryan and I. I do not want to have to come into this House and tell everybody that I got it right.
What a relief.
There is no harm in doing so.
What about Irish Permanent shares?
There is never any need to do that as far as you are concerned, Senator Ross.
I simply want the House to recognise that it is too late and that it should not waste time reflecting on its mistakes. We are locked into the euro and should talk about the future, not the past.
I support the call by Senators Farrell and Hayes for a debate on the extent that the press exceeds the bounds of normal respect for privacy and the establishment of a press council with strong teeth. There is a realisation of this happening among reporters. Mary Ellen Synon wrote a good article on this on Sunday as did Kevin Myers yesterday. I say this as someone who has been subjected in recent times to a tremendous amount of harassment about a matter which turned out to be innocuous. Nevertheless, it has affected my job, career and personal happiness in a way that it should not. I am a politician and I am fair game, but, as Senator Farrell said, other people's private lives are not paraded in front of the public. There is a limit to what the public should have a right to know.
Mr. Ryan
Last week I raised the downgrading of the blood transfusion services laboratory in Cork. That issue is still very much alive and it is impossible to get any information on it. The BTSB will not communicate with anybody; it is operating in secret and in private. There is a suspicion in Cork, given the absence of any other empirical evidence, that the BTSB resents the fact that the Cork laboratory first identified the inadequacies of the national laboratory and because it did not like the message, it proposes to shoot the messenger and eliminate blood testing in Cork with a series of consequences that I cannot argue about, but which every senior medical professional in Cork, including non-consultant hospital doctors, believes will put people's health at risk in the interest of some spurious cost saving which nobody can identify and most people see as simply a power grab by the BTSB to put itself in control of everything in Dublin. It is high time we heard from the Minister for Health and Children on this issue.
The behaviour of the media means we are probably moving towards needing privacy legislation which would guarantee the right of the citizen to have privacy except in circumstances where overwhelming public interest dictates otherwise. At least then we would have some judicial test to protect individual privacy, as it is becoming far too commonplace to have prurient prying into people's private lives where there is no public interest. I am not necessarily referring to recent matters in this State but making a general point. There is far too much prying into private lives because it is juicy and sells newspapers, unfortunately. However, it is not the way for our media to develop.
I agree with Senator Ryan. We do not need a press council as the example we have from England shows it can be toothless. The Press Complaints Commission has no effect, good, bad or indifferent, on the press. However, privacy legislation could be of benefit to those in public life and the press itself.
Some weeks ago I raised the issue of the franking of envelopes to advise us all to vote in the European elections. The Leader said he would speak to An Post about franking post to advise people about the local elections. Since then I have not heard anything. What is the state of play?
Senators Manning, Henry, Costello and others raised the matter of junior doctors, which is obviously a serious situation. We are concerned about the health and safety of patients when doctors have worked very long hours. Their judgment may be impaired and errors may be made. Senator Maurice Hayes made a very good point when he said that the fact that there has been a decision in Europe does not necessarily mean we must go along with it. It would be useful for the House to debate the issue of junior doctors and we will seek to do so with the Minister for Health and Children.
There was nothing convenient whatsoever about the Tánaiste's indisposition while attending the Council meeting. The Tánaiste was so ill she had to go home and she spent yesterday in bed. It was not a matter of convenience and I reject that suggestion utterly. If there was an empty seat at the meeting it was unavoidable.
Senators Manning, Quinn, Finneran and Ross raised the issue of the euro. Senator Ross was correct to say that we are part of this but it might be useful to review progress, so to speak. Given our high growth rate and booming economy it is difficult for us to understand that there is a much lower level of growth in Europe. That, coupled with very low interest rates, is probably having a depressing effect on the currency. I am open to the proposition of a debate on this matter.
I join with the expressions of good wishes to the Welsh and Scottish Assemblies. It would be useful if we had closer links with those bodies. We already have links with the House of Keys in the Isle of Man, which has sent representatives to visit us. Perhaps it would be useful if we extended a similar invitation to Members of the Welsh and Scottish Assemblies and if we had closer liaison with them.
Senator Henry raised No. 20, her Regulation of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill, 1999. It would be useful to debate these issues and the best way to do so would be through a Second Reading of the Bill. I have no objection to that but I will check with the Minister and the Leader to find out if we can arrange time for it. There are hugely important issues involved. Technology is proceeding at such a pace, and not just in the medical field, that legislation is trying to catch up. As far as I am aware the Medical Council does not have a code of ethics which applies to this situation but there is an obvious need for legislation and regulation and a debate would be useful. I will seek to have the Senator's Bill brought forward for a Second Stage debate, although that is not to give an undertaking that it will be adopted by the House. However, at least it will be debated.
I agree with the points made by Senators Costello and Finneran about the indictment of Slobodan Milosevic by the UN International Criminal Tribunal. I think the principle of separating sports from politics is good. I do not want to draw a parallel between Northern Ireland and Yugoslavia because there is none but I refereed rugby football for many years and when the situation was very bad in Northern Ireland we always ensured fixtures continued. It is important that sports people are not penalised for the atrocities of their political leaders. That is not to say that the match should go ahead but this should be looked at carefully. I am sure the Minister and the sporting authorities will take the points made into account.
Senators raised the issue of gazumping and I return to the point made by the Leader yesterday on this. We debated these matters fully during Labour Party Private Members' time recently. As far as I can recall gazumping was not alluded to during that debate.
Mr. Ryan
The Minister was too busy giving out.
Perhaps it has only emerged as an issue as a result of newspaper articles this morning, although it would be very improper of me to suggest that.
It could have been dealt with by now.
The matter of the conduct of the press was raised by Senators Farrell, Maurice Hayes, Lydon, Ryan and Fitzpatrick. I agree with the points made about a press council. It would be fairly useless unless it had teeth and the Press Complaints Commission in Britain appears to have had no effect on the British tabloid media. What we have seen in the last few days is very distasteful and nobody could condone it. There probably is a need for privacy legislation and a need to upgrade the defamation law. We debated some of these matters during the last Seanad and we should return to the matter as there is a need for certain standards. Different standards apply to those in public life compared to private individuals but there is a degree of intrusion that is unacceptable. An example of standards falling dramatically in Ireland is the use of big lenses to get close up photographs of mourners. That is totally unacceptable and should not be tolerated.
Senator Norris spoke about the tidying up of the proceedings. He will be aware that it is open to a Member to review the proceedings and have them amended within a certain period. What happens at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges is a matter for the Cathaoirleach.
It does not always happen when requested.
I am not disagreeing with the Senator. The substance may be altered at times, which is not something one would wish to happen, but I am sure the Cathaoirleach would be able to have that debated by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Senator Quinn referred to gazumping and the Government document on Partnership for Peace. I agree with him that the House should look at this and I will ask the Leader to arrange time for a debate on it.
Senator Ross raised the matter of a Private Bill for Trinity College. The Bill has been referred for consideration to the special committee, which consists of three Members from each House and is under the chairmanship of Senator Manning. Perhaps Senator Ross could discuss it after the Order of Business with Senator Manning, who can report progress to him.
Senator Ryan raised the matter of the blood transfusion service in Cork but I feel this would be suitable as a Matter on the Adjournment. I note there are no Matters on the Adjournment today.
Senator Fitzpatrick raised the matter of the franking of envelopes. I am not sure what I have to say about that.
We will wait for an answer from the real Leader.
I was about to say I have no knowledge of this and I am sure the Leader will deal with it urgently on his return.
Order of Business agreed to.