The Order of Business is Nos. 1, 2 and 22, motion 16. No. 1, motion re the fourth Protocol to the Treaty of Amsterdam is to be taken without debate – this motion was referred for discussion to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights last week; No. 2, Report Stage of the Planning and Development Bill, 1999; and No. 22, motion 16, to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. The House will suspend business at 3.45 p.m. to allow Senators to attend the Dáil for the Budget Statement.
Order of Business.
I have no difficulty with Nos. 1 and 22, motion 16. I fully agree to No. 1 being taken without debate. However, I have some difficulty with No. 2. Amendments were tabled at a rate of knots during Committee Stage of this Bill. We read some of them in the newspapers before they were even submitted to the House and others arrived in the post two days after we had discussed them. That has happened once again in regard to Report Stage amendments. I did not receive amendments from the Minister due to the short time between Committee Stage and Report Stage and I did not have an opportunity to respond to the amendments in writing. The business of the House should not be run in this manner. We are being bullied into rushing through legislation which we are supposed to examine. I understand this Bill is the third largest Bill to be introduced to either House of the Oireachtas and that more amendments have been tabled to it than to any other Bill in the past. The Bill deals with a very serious subject and should not be treated with such disdain on the Minister's part in an attempt to rush it through the House to suit his own agenda.
The points made by Senator Coogan are valid. It is also the view on the Independent benches that, irrespective of the pressures exerted on the Minister, this is a very unsatisfactory way of doing business. We are aware of the importance of this legislation which touches every aspect of Irish life. The manner in which the legislation is being rushed through the House is creating problems for people who wish to support and co-operate with the Bill's passage. The matter requires attention. I share Senator Coogan's apprehension about the approach to the Bill.
On No. 1, technical motions such as this come before the House on a regular basis, primarily arising from statutory instruments or ministerial orders. The relevant legislation in each case requires that these motions be passed by both Houses. I do not want anyone to get the impression that there is a convention that matters should be dealt with without discussion. Motions such as this are taken without debate because Members feel they have discussed the relevant matters during the debate on the legislation and that further discussion is not required. We agree to each motion on an individual case basis. Motions appear on the Order Paper to allow Members to discuss them should they so wish. We agree that this motion be taken without debate.
I fully support the Government proposal to introduce an additional 3,000 taxis in Dublin city. Many parents will feel reassured that their children might not now have to wait for hours on end in the middle of the night for a taxi on College Green and that they may be safer and more secure. The sooner that happens, the better. The Government should move quickly on this issue.
On a lighter note, I want to refer to the new £1 coin.
The Senator wants to have more of them in his pocket this evening.
We are currently dealing with two types of £1 coin. The coin which was issued recently is not suitable for most vending machines. I understand, for example, that parking meters will not accept them. I would like an explanation as to why the most recent minting of £1 coins has resulted in the production of lighter, narrower coins which cannot be used in vending machines. It does not give us much confidence as regards the minting of the new euro coins. We need an explanation on how that happened.
The Senator is being short changed.
The last point made by Senator O'Toole extends further. We have the millennium coins which will not go into parking meters etc., and the millennium candle which will not go into letter boxes. There seems to be bad planning as regards the new millennium.
The relevance of these matters to the Order of Business escapes me.
On No. 1, which the Leader requested us to take without debate, we have said on a number of occasions that we are not happy to take motions without debate. When a motion of this nature is put down, a short memorandum should be circulated so we are aware of what is intended. I am delighted that, on request, the Leader supplied me with a memorandum on this motion. It should, however, be a precedent for the future so we may decide whether to agree to a motion without debate or that it merits a debate in this House.
On the Planning and Development Bill, 1999, I echo what was said by Senator O'Toole and Senator Coogan. We have said on every Order of Business on which the Bill was before us that it is being rushed through the House. It is significant legislation both in size and quality. We seem to be ordering our business to suit the Minister for the Environment and Local Government and that is a dangerous principle to establish. The Leader will disagree with that but the Minister of the Environment and Local Government seems to be directing and determining the manner in which we do our business. It is not good enough to rush the legislation through. If we go ahead with the Order of Business outlined by the Leader, there should be at least a half hour sos for those dealing with the business from now until 3.45 p.m. or 4 p.m.
I refer to that perennial matter, taxis, to which a number of Senators referred. Does the Minister or the Minister of State at the Department of Environment and Local Government intend to introduce legislation following the announcement that the number of taxis will be doubled? At present local authorities have statutory responsibility for this matter. In the Dublin area the four local authorities are responsible for determining the number of taxi plates made available. Does the Leader have any idea, or is this another case of mirrors? We do not know if legislation is intended because the Minister did not give such an indication. The Taoiseach set up a group to look at taxis and hackneys when it was the responsibility of local authorities. Now it seems the Progressive Democrats Party is taking it away from the Taoiseach and taking the initiative on this matter. All this is being done – this is pertinent to the Order of Business – without reference to the statutory bodies which are responsible for allocating taxi plates and licences. Let us find out what is intended and whether legislation will be introduced.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Education and Science to clear up the anomaly as regards the £20 per week training bonus for VTOS students? To get the bonus, there is a 12 month unemployment stipulation. Those unemployed for six months do not get the bonus so it is causing much tension within this programme. Some people get the full bonus but 111 people, half of whom are in Galway, do not. It is discriminating against people who were employed for six months. All those on this training scheme for the unemployed should get the full bonus. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Education and Science to see to it that all students on the VTOS programme get the full bonus?
Yesterday the Leader said he would give time for a debate on the North of Ireland. I hope that will be soon. Perhaps he will pass on the congratulations of the House to the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, on the calm way in which he dealt with the IRA statement and who spoke of breaching the Mitchell principles. I wonder do these people have any sense of irony. I take it we will end the day's business after Private Members' business and matters arising on the Adjournment and that we will not come back to the Planning and Development Bill, 1999, until tomorrow.
No.
Thank you.
I support the points made by Senator Coogan. We are all aware of the importance, complexity and intricacy of the Planning and Development Bill, 1999. Is the Leader aware of any further ministerial amendments in the offing of which we have no knowledge? That is perhaps not the fault of the Minister who may be awaiting further advice from other offices.
Mr. Ryan
I draw the Cathaoirleach's attention to the ridiculous situation whereby a motion and amendment on the Order Paper refer, in different terms, to something which has not happened, that is, the budget. I do not regard it as appropriate to deal with the business of the House—
Quite right.
Mr. Ryan
—in that fashion. I would be happy to have a motion noting the budget, but this motion and amendment anticipate the budget in different ways. I find the idea of having forecasts of the future on the Order Paper a little presumptuous to say the least. I do not mean to criticise—
By the time the motion and the amendment are taken, the matter referred to will be history.
Mr. Ryan
I still wonder about the principle.
The Senator is quite right.
Senator Ryan without interruption.
Mr. Ryan
I appreciate your defence, a Chathaoirligh, I feel quite threatened.
On No. 6, the Telecommunications (Infrastructure) Bill, 1999, this becomes monotonous after a while but it is as fundamental a development as road and rail infrastructure. It is as necessary for the development of the country as either of those and as electricity infrastructure. The Government, however, is sitting on its hands. I do not agree with aspects of the approach it is taking – that is not the issue. The issue is that we need a proper legislative framework for our telecommunications infrastructure.
On a related issue, I wonder about the main party opposite presiding over the apparent ending of national ownership of any part of our telecommunications. Within a few weeks or months Eircom and Esat may well be in the hands of other companies.
Senator Ryan is now anticipating.
Mr. Ryan
I have not put down a motion on what I anticipate, I am simply raising the matter. It is a matter of profound concern and I ask the Leader to make time available for a debate on the future of the telecommunications industry, given the imminence of its possible disappearance out of Irish hands.
I ask the Leader about the Criminal Justice (Safety of United Nations Workers) Bill, 1999. As I keep pointing out, this Bill gives effect to a convention signed in New York in December 1994, precisely five years ago. I suppose that is better than our record on many international conventions but if it is on the Order Paper, it is hardly controversial so we should deal with it quickly.
Will the Leader inquire of the other House what it is doing with legislation which we passed so efficiently and sometimes with excessive haste? There are seven Bills in the other House, some of which date to 1998. The Planning and Development Bill is being rushed through this House with extraordinary haste by a Minister who has turned out to be a bit of a bully when we thought he was a pleasant and agreeable individual. It will probably sit on the Dáil Order Paper for months because there is no room for it at present. Can the Leader find out what is happening to the legislation that we passed with considerable expedition but which is left sitting on the Dáil Order Paper?
I ask the Leader to bring to the attention of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the concern that has been expressed in my town and all around the country at the serious overcrowding in many places of entertainment and recreation, particularly discos. There could be a tragedy if an incident or fire broke out. Will he ask the Minister to instruct the Garda Commissioner to ask the gardaí to be active in this regard as we approach the new millennium? We are not killjoys but we want to make sure our young people are safe. At present many people believe they are not safe.
I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on rural development, particularly placing emphasis on the White Paper on rural development which was published some time ago. There is a lot of meat within that White Paper for discussion. In view of the fact that a former Member has been appointed Minister for Agriculture and Rural Development in Northern Ireland, I ask the Leader to consider asking her to be present for a debate. Rural development is an important matter whether north or south of the Border. Such a debate has been requested a few times in the past.
Senators Coogan, Costello and O'Toole expressed their concerns about the haste in which the Planning and Development Bill is going through the House. We spent 12 hours, or two days, on Second Stage and 38 hours, or five days, on Committee Stage. That is not rushing legislation through the House.
Mr. Ryan
It is.
Senator Coogan mentioned that he received amendments yesterday morning. They were circulated at 5 p.m. on Monday evening. However, I take his point because he is a rural Senator just like me. Everything that is humanly possible is done. The minute amendments arrive in the Seanad they are placed in the pigeonholes to enable Senators to view them.
I take exception to Senator Ryan's remark about the Minister for the Environment and Local Government being a bully. From my experience as Leader, he is one of the people who co-operates fully and he stayed for every minute of this Bill.
Mr. Ryan
Because he would not let the Minister of State come here.
Last Friday evening I noted the absenteeism from various benches at the close of Committee Stage of the Bill. When people get on their feet during the Order of Business in the morning—
Especially on the Leader's bench.
Mr. Ryan
Some of us have families and other responsibilities that we take seriously.
Senators should be consistent as well as constructive. I find that lacking at times with some of the Senators' contributions.
With regard to legislation going through the Dáil, this House has no jurisdiction over that matter. Perhaps Senator Ryan might enhance proceedings by going forward for the Dáil on the next occasion. We could see how he fares out and conducts himself. We could also see how he can help the Dáil's legislative process.
Mr. Ryan
I am touched by the Leader's concern.
Senators O'Meara and Costello asked for a lunch break. I propose a sos from 1 p.m. to 1.45 p.m., with the agreement of the House.
Time for a sandwich.
Senators O'Toole and Costello expressed their welcome for the extra 3,000 taxi licences announced yesterday by the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Robert Molloy. I also welcome that announcement. It is a positive move by the Government and I congratulate it. Senator Costello was concerned that the local authority would not be able to grant those licences. I assure him that it will be able to grant them. As the Minister of State pointed out, existing taxi licence holders will be offered one licence each. They can also play a significant part in helping Dublin's traffic flows.
Senator McDonagh called for the £20 training bonus to be given to all students on the VTOS programme. This matter should be placed on the Adjournment. As there is only one item on this evening's Adjournment, perhaps the Senator might consider placing this item on tomorrow's Adjournment. I can see the worthiness of his putting it down.
Senator O'Dowd asked me to convey to the relevant Minister his concern about safety at discos and the numbers attending them. As we all know, the licensing laws govern attendance numbers. When an entertainment or dance licence is granted, the number of persons allowed on the premises is clearly stated by the fire officer.
Senator Tom Hayes asked for a further debate or statements on rural development. We had a debate or statements recently.
No.
I intend to allow a debate on it every six months. The Senator will also have an opportunity next week to place this item in Fine Gael's Private Members' time. I have no difficulty facilitating him then and I will also arrange to have the Minister present.
On a point of order, we did not have a debate on rural development despite the fact that Fianna Fáil Members and the Leader's side of the House asked for it. He promised a debate but it did not take place.
That is not a point of order.
I thought agricultural issues relate to rural development in the most part. I was never found wanting in supporting calls from the rural community for anything that we discussed or debated here. I know the Senator will agree with what I have said.
Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed."
Tá
|
Bohan, Eddie.Callanan, Peter.Cassidy, Donie.Chambers, Frank.Dardis, John.Farrell, Willie.Finneran, Michael.Fitzgerald, Liam.Fitzgerald, Tom.Gibbons, Jim.Glynn, Camillus.Keogh, Helen. |
Kett, Tony.Kiely, Daniel.Kiely, Rory.Leonard, Ann.Lydon, Don.Moylan, Pat.O'Brien, Francis.O'Donovan, Denis.Ó Murchú, Labhrás.Ormonde, Ann.Quill, Máirín. Walsh, Jim. |
Níl
|
Burke, Paddy.Caffrey, Ernie.Coghlan, Paul.Coogan, Fintan.Cosgrave, Liam T.Costello, Joe.Cregan, Denis (Dino). |
Doyle, Joe.Hayes, Tom.McDonagh, Jarlath.Norris, David.O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Meara, Kathleen.Ryan, Brendan. |
Tellers: Tá, Senators T. Fitzgerald and Keogh; Níl, Senators Burke and T. Hayes.
Question declared carried.