I propose that Members who spoke previously on statements on the Irish language and the Gaeltacht will be allowed speak again if they so wish.
Irish Language and the Gaeltacht: Statements (Resumed).
Is that agreed? Agreed.
Once again it is Seachtain na Gaeilge and this is another of the many debates on this matter to which I have listened – an annual token offer of esteem for the language. For the rest of the year, the House bothers little with it.
What we are doing makes people cynical about the Irish language. I am cynical about what we are doing and I am not very different from the majority of people.
To restore Irish as the spoken language of the majority of the Irish people has been one of the great national aims since the foundation of the State. During the 78 years that have passed, the language has been made compulsory. It was a precondition for many years for getting a job in the public sector and our examination systems were organised in favour of those who took certain subjects in Irish. Millions of pounds have been thrown at it. There is a fully fledged and heavily subsidised gaeilgeoir industry and there have been large injections of cultural elitism. In many ways, we have made a genuflection to Irish as a defining badge of nationality.
I wish to quote from a Dáil debate 64 years ago. The speaker was fluent in Irish and had a deep knowledge of Irish literature. However, he refused to use Irish in the House because he knew that for many people of that time the speaking of Irish was invested with a certain hypocrisy. He said:
I believe we ought to revive the language in this country. I sometimes doubt now whether the thing is possible. I think so much damage has been done in the last three or four years that it is possible that the language is done for and that we will never revive it. Still, however, I believe it is worth trying for, and the only way we can hope to revive the language . . . . . is to make people want the language, and unless you can make them want the language the language is dead. You cannot, however, make the people of this country want anything by forcing it down their throats against their will, and the vast majority of parents in this country do not want their infant children bewildered and bemused . . . by being addressed in a language they do not understand.
This was James Dillon speaking in the Dáil on 24 March 1936. He went on to compare the language movement of ten or 15 years previously, before Independence. What had happened since then, he said:
. . . has turned what was a hopeful struggle, which had every prospect of success, into a detestable imposition which is making those who ought to be fighting for the language grow to hate it. . . . . . If the Irish language is shattered in our time, no succeeding generation will ever be able to revive it as a living language . . . . It sometimes terrifies me when I realise the amount of ignorance, narrowmindedness and futility . . . which stands between the country and success in this matter. . . . . . If the Irish language is to be made a political issue . . . . . by any other of the narrowminded pests that afflict this country, it will mean its hopeless and irrevocable destruction. There is only one hope for the language, and that is to make it a common platform on which persons of all points of view can co-operate for a common end. That is not done at the present time. There is no hope of it being done as long as the language is used as a kind of weapon in the hands of [different groups].
Seventy-eight years later we have not progressed much further. Leaving aside the merits of Irish, and there are many great merits, the national policy on the revival of Irish has been an abject failure.
Once again we are invited today to say the old, tired, polite things about the language. Seachtain na Gaeilge is well meaning but the fact that 78 years later there is a token week is the best evidence yet of the failure of a traditional policy which was pursued by all parties. This week we regularly hear the quotation of Thomas Davis: "A people without a language of its own is only half a nation." Davis's words were written before the Famine took its toll on Irish, when most of Ireland was still a Gaeltacht. It should be noted, however, that like many of today's Seachtain na Gaeilge enthusiasts, he never bothered to learn Irish himself. Sadly, of how many other public figures today can it be said that on the one hand they give public support to the Irish language but on the other hand do not bother to learn and master it? When the public sees hypocrisy, it knows it for what it is.
I do not wish to be misunderstood, deliberately or otherwise. I would dearly love to see the Irish language spoken on the streets and in our churches, homes and schools. Over 100 years ago the great American writer Walt Whitman wrote about language. It is not, he said, an abstract construction of the learned or of dictionary makers but something arising out of the work, needs, joys, affections and tastes of long generations of humanity and it has its basis broad and close to the ground. Whitman was writing about a vibrant, almost new language, American English. He accurately described the relationship that should exist between people and their language. Sadly, what he held to be true and what remains true today cannot be applied to today's Ireland.
I salute those who in the past worked tirelessly and for scant rewards to bring our ancestral tongue back to life. The múinteóirí taistil and the bicycle men of the old Gaelic League spring to mind. We should not forget that many of these were treated shamefully after Independence and denied pensions to which they were entitled. In that way, too, did the founders and members of Conradh na Gaeilge work, as do the many enthusiasts around the country today who believe, as Hyde and Pearse did, that Irish could be revived. These people gave, and give, in spirit, time, enthusiasm and commitment but what they hoped, and hope, for has not happened. The pretence that we can still make Irish the national spoken language in everyday use by the majority of the people remains one of the great policy aims of our country, but it is something we have manifestly failed to deliver.
I discussed this matter recently in gloomy terms with a friend, a keen supporter of the language. To my contention that the game is lost, he reminded me of the enthusiasm of the people who have been instrumental in setting up gaelscoileanna and naonraí around the country. That these are excellent schools in terms of academic achievement no unbiased observer can deny. I wish them continued success and even greater funding from the national treasury. I give them the benefit of a lingering doubt that the enthusiasm of the parent for the language always results in an enthusiasm in the child.
However, the success of the gaelscoileanna, naonraí and the dedicated activists only highlights the deep chasm and apathy that is faced by teachers in the vast majority of schools, an apathy reflected in the dismal standards in Irish achieved in so many of them. People might deny this but will anybody deny that most of the children who are taught French, German or Spanish for four or five years in secondary schools end up with a greater degree of fluency in those new languages than in Irish, which they have studied, if one may use that word, for ten or 11 years?
A friend who teaches in a Dublin university not long ago gave his first year Irish language tutorial students the 1955 primary certificate paper as a test. To his dismay, he found that 80% of the students failed it. Can anybody deny that this type of experience spells the end of what we are trying to achieve? I have looked at the curriculum in secondary schools. I am told it has been reformed, but it is still the most uninspiring collection of texts imaginable. It is guaranteed to put any imaginative child off Irish for life. It is so dull that in comparison books that many of us struggled through in English, such as The Pilgrim's Progress or Newman's ideas on a university, would be regarded as fun and light reading by modern youngsters.
As for the foundation course, nobody can take it seriously. It is designed with one purpose in mind, to give credence to the pretence that all is well with the position of Irish in schools. It does not take much to pass the foundation course with flying colours and, in terms of statistics, it is useful for proving that more children can now boast a qualification in Irish.
Will we ever come to terms with the reality? For example, will the zealots who send children packing from the Gaeltacht summer schools for inadvertently using a phrase or sentence in English realise the enormity of the damage they are doing? Will the lip service being paid at this time of the year to what has now become a great national humbug, the revival of the language, do the slightest bit of good? Will Seachtain na Gaeilge do anything to stem the tide of apathy? There are people who begin a conversation with "a chairde Ghaeil" and then immediately revert to English. Will that sort of cant do anything to instil respect for the Irish language? Will it do anything other than add to the public distaste for what many dub the "tá sé's", the people who use the language, do not understand it, have not taken the trouble to learn it and yet wear it as a badge?
It is not my intention to malign those who try hard to stem the tide of national apathy. I salute them. I pity the teachers who have to cope as best they can with national apathy to the language. I salute the scholars who celebrate our beautiful ancestral language in a salutary clinical manner. I salute those young people who have disregarded the national stupor and who have learned Irish well and are proud of having done so. I salute too the novelists, the short story writers, the dramatists who work in Irish and who have added lustre to the ancient tradition.
Here we have this great dichotomy, with a small group of people striving very hard to do what the founders of the State and all the parties at the beginning of the State hoped would be done for all the people and that in a matter of a generation or two it would be the accepted mean rather than the exception. It is a gloomy assessment. What can we do? I do not have the answer. There are many people who are paid salaries, who are doing research in linguistics, into teaching methods and so on, who are in a better position than I am. We could start with a proper root and branch revival of the curriculum, especially in primary schools. My ten year old son and his friends learn Irish by rote, in a mechanical way. Nothing in their textbooks grabs their attention, as the English, mathematical, history or geography textbooks grab the attention of bright children. The textbooks are out of date. They reflect an Ireland that perhaps never was. There is nothing in them to attract the attention of young people who are starting off on their educational journey.
Whatever success there will be will come about only if there is a root and branch reform of the teaching of Irish, especially in primary schools. It is not as if there is not enough money being spent on it. It is not as if the resources are not there. For whatever reason, the failure of imagination on the part of those who draft, sanction and provide the texts has been one of the great failures. Unless there is root and branch reform, Irish will continue to be badly taught. Pupils will remain indifferent if not downright hostile. Seachtain na Gaeilge will come and go. It will be an ever more ghostly memorial to a past that perhaps never was, that might have been had the policies succeeded. The policies have not succeeded.
I admire people in this House, such as the Minister, Senator Ó Murchú and others, who have made the revival of the Irish language as the spoken language of all the people a large part of their life's work. I salute their sincerity and the sincerity of many others like them, but I believe we have lost our way and that the pretence that Irish can be revived as a language which will be even affectionately regarded by a majority of the people, not to mention widely used by all the people, is a fiction. I wish it were otherwise. If we are to stem the tide, let us begin by looking very hard at the way in which Irish is taught in primary schools in particular but also in secondary schools. That the results at the end of seven, eight or ten years of intensive teaching of Irish are so dismal tells its own story.
Fáiltím roimh an tAire Stáit. Tá áthas orm go bhfuil an díospóireacht seo ar siúl mar cruthaíonn sé i slí go bhfuil an Ghaeilge fos ina beocheist sa tír seo agus go bhfuil tuairimíocht ann agus gur mian le daoine na tuairimí a nochtadh. Is maith an rud é freisin nach n-aontaíonn gach éinne leis na tuairimí céanna mar ní dóigh liom go mbeadh sé sin cabhrach agus ní bhéadh sé sláintiúil. Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach go mbeadh díospóireacht ar an Ghaeilge, ar cad é an dul chun cinn atá déanta, cad é an slí is feárr le cur chuige, cad iad na botúin a déineadh go dtí seo, cad é an t-ábhar atá ann maidir le forbairt amach anseo. Chomh maith leis sin, ag féachaint siar ar stair na Gaeilge tá sé fíor a rá go raibh daoine ann a bhí idéalach i gcomhnaí maidir leis an Ghaeilge. Thuigeadar go raibh seod luachmhar i gceist sa Ghaeilge. Ní hamháin go raibh foclóir ag baint leis an teanga ach go raibh fealsúnacht ag baint leis chomh maith agus go raibh an fealsúnacht sin le fáil sa Ghaeilge. Is cinnte freisin go bhfuil teanga liteartha againn chomh maith agus ní gá ach féachaint ar na scríobhainní a bhí againn go dtí seo. Tá sé thar a bheith soiléir go bhfuil saibhreas ag baint leo agus na scoláirí go raibh sé de ádh acu mionscrúdú a dhéanamh ar na scríobhainní sin do thuigeadar go raibh an saibhreas céanna ag baint leo siúd is a bhí ag an-chuid de na scríobhainní claiseacha a bhí i dteangacha eile. Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach go mbeadh seans ag daoine an seod luachmhar sin a bheith acu, go mbeadh seans acu an saibhreas sin a thuiscint agus go mbeadh siad in ann forbairt a dhéanamh ar a gcaractéirí náisiúnta féin. Mar gheall ar sin tá áthas ormsa go bhfuil an díospóireacht seo ar siúl. Níl aon amhras faoi ach gur déineadh botúin agus bhí an-díospóireacht ann ar feadh na mblianta fada maidir le Gaeilge éiginteach sna scoileanna. Bhí scoláirí ann a chreid gur chuir sé isteach orthu agus gur chuir sé constaic ina dtreo maidir le dul chun cinn, nár éirigh leo, b'fhéidir, creidiúint áirithe a bhaint amach san oideachas agus mar sin de. Bhí daoine ag rá freisin nuair a bhí an-chuid imirce as an tír nach raibh aon mhaitheas sa Ghaeilge do dhaoine a bheadh ag imeacht agus a bheadh ag iarraidh maireachtaint i dtír éigin eile. Chun a bheith féaráilte faoi ní hionann na ceisteanna sin ar fad. Do bheadh imirce ann gan an Ghaeilge agus bheadh imirce gan an Ghaeilge a bheith sa chóras oideachais. Ach ba bhreá liom an méid seo a rá, ó chuamar isteach i gComhphobal na hEorpa tugaim faoi ndeara go bhfuil níos mó meas ag daoine ar an nGaeilge ná mar a bhí roimhe seo agus an cheist atá ann ná cén fáth go bhfuil sin amhlaidh. An tuairim pearsanta atá agam ná nuair a chuaigh daoine ag taisteal ar fud na hEorpa, rud nár dhein mórán daoine roimhe sin, thugadar faoi ndeara go raibh teanga náisiúnta ag gach tír. Ní hamháin go raibh meas ar an teanga sin ach gur dheineadar an-iarracht an teanga a chosaint, ní hamháin ina dtír féin ach leasmuigh go hidirnáisiúnta freisin. I gcás na Fraincise, mar shampla, agus i gcás na Gearmáinise tá sé soiléir go bhfuil na milliúin punt caite ag na tíortha sin le cinntiú go mbeadh gradam ag a dteangacha féin ar fud an domhain. Chomh maith leis sin thug daoine faoi ndeara nuair a bhí siad ag taisteal ar fud na hEorpa gur thug sé bród dóibh a bheith in ann a rá go raibh teanga acu féin mar d'fhéachadar ar an teanga mar chomhartha féiniúlachta náisiúnta. Sé sin le rá go rabhadar in ann a chruthú go raibh cúlra faoi leith acu féin agus ins an cúlra sin go raibh an cultúr agus go raibh oidhreacht ann chomh maith.
Caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil an deáthoil sin le mothú fiú amháin i measc na ndaoine óga atá ann an lá inniu. B'fhéidir go bhfuil sé fíor a rá nach bhfuil an caighdeán ó thaobh múineadh na Gaeilge chomh hard is a bhí in an-chuid slite ach go bunúsach tá deáthoil don Ghaeilge ann. Níl an feachtas céanna i gcoinne na Gaeilge is a bhí sna seascaidí agus arís tá daoine ag rá go bhfuil díomá orthu nár éirigh leo níos mó Gaeilge a fhoghlaim ar scoil agus nach féidir leo níos mó Gaeilge a úsáid anois. Tá sin á admháil acu. Chomh maith leis sin, má fhéachann tú ar TG4, mar shampla, nuair a thosaigh sé i dtosach, b'fhéidir nach raibh an tús chomh láidir sin.
Ag an am céanna do leanadar ar aghaidh agus tá i bhfad níos mó lucht féachana acu anois ná mar a bhí go dtí seo. Tá caighdeán ann agus is gnáth daoine óga oilte na daoine is mó atá chun tosaigh ann, daoine a bhfuil cur-i-láthair an-maith acu. Nílimid ag caint a thuilleadh ar sheanóirí. Tugann sé an-dóchas domsa go bhfuil an scéal mar seo. Má fhéachann tú ar an nGaeltacht, ar a laghad tá sí fós ann. Sin an rud is tábhachtaí agus sa cheantar sin tá daoine ag maireachtaint agus an Ghaeilge mar ghnátha labhartha acu. Is cruthú é sin gur éirigh leis an Ghaeilge agus an Ghaeltacht maireachtaint fiú amháin ins an saol nua-aimsire seo agus gach saghas brú á chur isteach orthu. Ach ní hionann é sin agus a rá gur chuir an Ghaeilge isteach ar an gcóras oideachais ins an Ghaeltacht mar tá an-dul chun cinn déanta ag an aos óg. Tá céimeanna bainte amach acu cosúil le gach cuid eile den tír. Tá dul chun cinn eacnamaíochta déanta ann chomh maith ach an príomh rud ná go bhfuil an Ghaeltacht ann mar thobar na Gaeilge. Agus tá seans againn freastal ar an nGaeilge agus snas a chur ar ár gcuid Gaeilge féin. Caithfimid a bheith féaráilte dóibh siúd mar sin an teanga laethúil atá acu. Caithfimid a cinntiú go bhfuil siad in ann na seirbhísí atá in ann dóibh a bheith acu.
Tá áthas orm a chlos go mbeidh Bille Teanga ann mar ceapaim go bhfuil an-tábhacht le Bille Teanga, ní chun conspóid a chothú, ní chun constaicí a chothú ach chun a bheith oscailte agus macánta ar cad iad na riachtanaisí atá ag teastáil ó thaobh na Gaeilge sa lá atá inniu ann nuair atá dul chun cinn á dhéanamh leis na meáin chumarsáide agus mar sin de. Guím gach rath ar ndóigh, ar Sheachtain na Gaeilge agus tuigim an rud a bhí á rá go béasach ag an Seanadóir Manning ach ag an am céanna tá sé tábhachtach go mbeadh taispeántas ann ó am go chéile. Go bhfuilimid in ann a rá le daoine, "Féach, seo í an Ghaeilge, is libhse an Ghaeilge agus tá súil againn go dtiocfaidh sibh isteach ar an Ghaeilge."
I have often heard people ask why we spend so much money on national monuments which are generally old ruins. Many people see them as nothing more than a heap of stones while other people see much more. Some people view Newgrange as nothing more than a hole in the ground yet it has come to a stage where the Office of Public Works must limit the number of people who visit it each year. Someone might look at the Book of Kells and say it is not a great work of art and that modern printing methods could do just as good. But we all know the answers to those questions. It is not the specific object itself but from whence it came and what it represents that is important. It represents our ancestry and past achievements in particular times.
Surely the Irish language must fall into the same category but even more so because it is a living treasure which shows the philosophy of our people and it kept their intellect intact. It shows a cumas cainte. It also shows a proficiency of language.
I have heard people criticise Péig yet they never thought to reason why it was important. That book was important because its author was an ordinary woman who had little or no formal education, yet she was still capable of writing in an almost classic language form. That is what was important about Péig. How could a person with out formal education achieve that? It is important when we look back on our poetry and literature to realise that not only had we as a race of people that particular proficiency but that our language and its structure was capable of bringing that genius with it. That is what is important about the Irish language. I am not criticising the English language or any other language.
Thirty years ago most people would have regarded Irish music as something from the past which they would have associated with the fireside. There is nothing wrong with that, but they would never have thought of it as a music that would attract the attention of scholars. It is due to the patience of people and their endeavours to rescue that music and pass it on intact and enhanced that it has an audience throughout the world today. There are people studying for doctorates and masters degrees writing about our music. They are finding excellence in that music which we might easily have missed only for people who were prepared to stand up for it and work for it.
The same applies to Irish dancing. We would have talked about the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven and the one, two three and the rising step. Now it is all over the world. All the big theatres are booked. For the next three years some of these shows are completely booked out. No musical in the world is able to match its success. We would not have kept that type of Irish dancing intact were it not for people wanting to teach it and we would not have had "Lord of the Dance" or "Riverdance".
The same applies to the Irish language. It is important for us to have a language to give ourselves an enhanced self-pride. The Irish language must do that. That it is Irish does not make it any different in its potency to achieve that. I can think of people with whom I came in contact in Conradh na Gaeilge and other organisations. Sometimes they were over zealous and over idealistic but that is a biproduct of enthusiasm. The same could be said about politics. Members have often been enthusiastic about their own parties in this House but that does not mean that party politics is wrong. It is important that what was done in the past was done sincerely.
With regard to those who established aims and objectives, the Young Irelanders knew the terrible base of depression from whence they came because after the Famine we had sunk into a pit of depression. The first thing they had to do was lift the spirit of the people. It was not to talk about food, the economy or political structures. They lifted people's spirits by pointing to the things which moulded them and their outlook and the Irish language was part of that. Thomas Davis did the same thing when he pointed to our language, songs and culture. It is evident that in 1916 Padraig MacPiarsaigh and his comrades followed the same line. No one having read the 1916 Proclamation, which is a short charter of independence, would suggest that it was not well thought out or pluralist in many ways. Some of the statements contained in it, for example "to cherish all the children of the nation equally", are as relevant today as they were in 1916. Underlining all of that was our national identity and part of it was our language.
I agree with Senator Manning's comments about a common platform. I have always believed in it. The Irish language should not be seen as the property of a political party or religious group. The language belongs to us all. We can underpin the goodwill that exists by adopting a pragmatic approach and learning from the past. We can pace ourselves on the road to achievement. We must ask ourselves how a young person can spend 14 years in school yet leave it with a knowledge of the language but not the confidence to put a number of sentences together or even not having the language at all. There is a question to be answered.
A common platform is what is important. Given the small gathering in the Seanad today and the fact that a debate of this kind has occurred so often in the past, we may wonder if we are speaking to deaf ears or if it is superfluous. However, would it not be great if, out of today, among all the political interests, we could work together, forget the mistakes of the past and say that the language is important, worth promoting and worth saving and that it gives us a specific enhancement, and not only within our own country?
When TG4 first started people said it was out of place in the world of today and that it would cost a lot of money. However, at least it is there as a statement. Its viewership is growing and the standard of programming is quite high, fronted in the main by young, articulate, intelligent and very often good looking people who represent the young population of today. They have inherited the language and they will have their own focus and approach to the future.
For that reason I am delighted that An tAire Stáit is present. He has already addressed the House in this debate when he proposed some very good ideas. It is important to have new ideas. We should not always feel we are in a straitjacket, that we must work to stereotypes, or that there must be a negative aspect all the time. We must approach this with new ideas.
Tá súil agam go dtiocfaidh dea-thoil as an díospóireacht seo agus go mbeimid go léir ag díriú ar an dea-thoil sin.
I thank Senator Ó Murchú for lifting some of my gloom.
Ag éisteacht leis an méid a bhí le rá ag an Seanadóir, tá sé de nós ag na polaiteoirí athleasú a dhéanamh ar stair na tíre agus rinne an Seanadóir Ó Murchú an-leasú ar fad. There is always space for a revisionist approach, but i ndáiríre ní raibh aon rófháilte roimis forógra na Poblachta i 1916 and it is a progressive and pluralist document and has rarely been surpassed this century. Every young person should read it, as should anybody who holds views on pluralism, but there was not any great welcome for Irishmen and Irishwomen. It is worth noting in this day of Lá na mBan that the document was probably the first in Irish history to treat men and women equally. That was in 1916 agus is maith an rud é sin a chur ar thaifead an Tí ag an bpointe seo.
Ag féachaint ar rudaí mar Riverdance n'fheadar an raibh aon rófháilte roimh Riverdance ach oiread ó chaomhnóirí ár gcultúr – the culture police – is cuimhin liomsa nuair a bhí mé ag fás suas that moving the hands and jumping around was not Irish dancing. Is maith liom a chlos ón Seanadóir inniu cé chomh tábhachtach is atá Riverdance.
Bhí muide níos liobrálaí i gConamara riamh.
Chaith mé gach samhradh dem óige i gConamara agus bhí an scéal céanna ann. Chomh maith leis sin, an tríú cuid den seit, an hopaí mar a thugtaí air sa seit ó iarthar na tíre i nGaillimh agus i gCiarraí go mór mór, ní raibh cléir na tíre ró-thógtha leis agus is cuimhin linn an méid sin. I am a bit too wise now.
Tá an díospóireacht seo an-tábhachtach agus tá gá le ceann anois agus arís sa Teach ionas go mbeidh tuiscint againn ar a bhfuil ar siúl agus ar cén dul chun cinn is féidir linn a dhéanamh.
Ó thaobh pholasaí ghinearálta an Stáit de, ó bunaíodh é, i dtaobh na Gaoluinne, an rud is measa ná nach raibh sé riamh dírithe ar an Gaeltachtaí. The policy has always been to see how many on the east coast can be persuaded to speak Irish while there was never enough support for muintir na Gaeltachtaí. Chuaigh mé ar scoil leo, chonaic mé a gcuid tithe agus na leaids ag teacht ar scoil gach maidin nach raibh aon lón acu ná aon rud ag an baile acu.
Fiú i láthair na huaire tá an scéal amhlaidh. Táimid ag iarraidh an Ghaeilge a chur á labhairt ar bhonn níos leithne agus ag díriú i gcónaí ar cúrsaí oideachais. Is maith sin mar is fíor go bhfuil caighdeán na Gaeilge i measc lucht fágtha na scoile níos measa inniu ná mar a bhí riamh. I will return to that. Táimid sásta tacaíocht a thabhairt do scoileanna Gaeilge sa Ghalltacht nach bhfuilimid sásta a thabhairt do scoileanna na Gaeltachta. That is total madness. Is féidir liom isteach i scoil ar bith sa Spidéal, i Leitir Mór nó fiú i nDún Chaoin, agus gach seans go mbeidh tuismitheoirí deich faoin gcéad de na leanaí tagtha ar ais ó thíortha thar lear agus gan focal Gaeilge ag na páistí ag teacht isteach ar scoil.
An crowd a rugadh agus a tógadh timpeall na háite ní bheidh Gaoluinn ag leath díobh ón gcliabhán. That is what the teachers in the Gaeltacht schools are putting up with. Surely they are entitled to that level of support. Surely we can all agree on that. It is a small matter and we made a move towards it recently. Caithfear an tacaíocht a thabhairt dóibh.
Nuair a bhí an Bille Oideachais sa Teach seo ceithre bliana ó shin ag an Rialtas deiridh luadh the regionalisation of education agus chuireamar síos leasú chun go mbeadh réigiún amháin Gaeltachta comhtheoranta le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta, chun go mbeadh siad ag féachaint ar chúrsaí téacsleabhair – níl siad ar fáil as Gaoluinn in a lán de na scoileanna. D'fhoghlaim mé féin mo chuid Laidine trí Ghaoluinn as téacsleabhar Béarla. That is still going on. There needs to be an investment in that kind of thing. In the Education Act, tá píosa ann faoi general national resource centre for the teaching of Irish, where ábhar múinte would be put together.
An rud ba chóir a bheith ann ó thaobh mhúinteadh na Gaoluinne sa Ghaeltacht – I should be able to say to the teachers in iar-Chonnacht mar shampla, to put a group together chun téacsleabhair a chur le chéile ó thús deireadh, put it all together and that would become téacsleabhar na háite. There must be that will. Níl aon slí eile ann.
Is fíor go bhfuil muintir na Gaeltachta ag maireachtaint trí Ghaoluinn but muintir na Gaeltachta do not think of themselves as living through the Irish language, they think of themselves as living. Ach go bhfuil sé ar siúl acu trí Ghaoluinn. I wish the rest of the world also understood that, and understood gurb iad na Gaeltachtaí foinse na teanga, and that they deserve special treatment. It is not the kind of east coast culture police, the people who use Irish to stop others talking to them. One of the great differences between east and west in Ireland is, if a person visits a company in the Gaeltacht agus muna bhfuil Gaeilge acu, people will speak English because it is their natural courtesy. In Dublin, the reverse is likely to happen and the language is more likely to be used in an exclusive rather than an inclusive fashion to make a person feel they cannot participate. That would be the view of Gaeltacht people in Dublin who often get embarrassed when speaking Irish with a person who has not been born and reared in the Gaeltacht and who does not revert to English if a third person, who does not speak Irish, joins the group. I cite that as an example of how the language is used in the wrong way. That said, we as people from the west always had the belief that in Dublin it was the third person who always killed the language for that reason. We believed it was wrong to continue ag caint as Gaeilge if another person who did not speak the language was present. That would be the same in any other country.
An rud atá ag teastáil sna Gaeltachtaí ná infrastruchtúr agus níl sé ann. Tá rudaí ar nós bóithre ag teastáil. Both Senator Ryan and I have raised a number of times on the Order of Business, including today, the Telecommunications (Infrastructure) Bill. That legislation could give freedom do na Gaeltachtaí nach raibh riamh acu cheana. Everything could be done there. I will not go into detail on it but ní deacair a shamhlú an sórt saoirse a thabharfadh sé do dhul chun cinn sna Gaeltachtaí da mba rud é go raibh telecommunications ar fáil acu.
Is é Gaeilge teanga muintir na Gaeltachta lá i ndiaidh lae. An rud ba chomhair dúinn a dhéanamh ná to forget that fact and give them what they require to live their lives in a manner similar to the lives of people in any other part of Ireland. That means investing more money in the Gaeltachtaí and positive discrimination in favour of the Gaeltachts. That is the only way it can be done, it should be done as a matter of policy and it should be our focus. We should develop an teanga as na Gaeltachtaí instead of from the Galltachtaí. That is my general view of what is wrong with an polasaí. That is not to say that developments outside of that, such as Gaelscoileanna, are wrong. They should receive all the support they need. I would not wish to be misunderstood on that point. However, muintir na Gaeltachta do not receive a fair chance. It is only when a person is born and reared, fully educated and lives and works in the Gaeltachtaí that the language is living. Ní bheidh deacracht ar bith le cumas na teanga to cope with changes in life. Tiocfaidh an foclóir do mhuintir na Gaeltactha. Tuigeann gach duine againn dá mba rud é go raibh fostaíocht, ollscoilíocht, tithíocht, bóithre agus gach rud eile sna Gaeltachtaí, bí cinnte that muintir na Gaeltachtaí would not be stuck for a word to describe a new invention or development. Ní raibh riamh an deacracht sin acu. Ba mhaith liom go mbéadh sé sin ann dóibh.
An sórt rud a chuireann isteach ar rudaí Gaelacha ná the attitudinal aspect. Chonaic mé aréir ar an dteilifís a programme on different types of Irish music. It concerned the showband era, and Bob Geldof from the Boomtown Rats was interviewed. There was a passing reference to bainisteoir an ghrúpa sin, a man called Fachtna Ó Ceallaigh. His grandfather was a member of one of the early Governments, a Minister for Education and ba scríobhneoir é faoin ainm "Sceilg". His grandson turned out to be the manager of an in-your-face rock band with Bob Geldof as a member. However, ba Ghaeilgeoir Fachtna i gcónaí. Gaeilge a labhair sé liom i gcónaí, even when he was at the height of his fame in London or wherever. Is cuimhin liom oíche amháin a raibh sé ar an Late Late Show. Chuir Gay Byrne ceist air cad ba mhaith leis a dhéanamh. He answered that he would like to go and live for a few years in the Gaeltacht. The audience laughed because they could not see this Dubliner with long hair who was into rock music having any reference to the Gaeltacht. That was where his love was, his commitment was always to that and it never changed.
The difficulty is, an bhfuil tuiscint ann ar céard is traidisiún? Níl ann ach an teannas idir nua agus sean. An deacracht ná go mbíonn daoine ag iarraidh é a choimeád mar unchanging gan tuiscint go bhfuil sé i gcónaí ag dul ar aghaidh, ag forbairt agus ag aistriú agus gur rud beo é an traidisiún. It is not just Irish music and dancing. It is not traditional Irish music or the Chieftains. It is not even Riverdance or Lord of the Dance. It is also Sinéad O'Connor and U2. Until we can cope with that trí Ghaeilge, we will be in difficulty. It is noticeable from ag éisteacht leis an Seanadóir. Aontaíom le gach focal a dúirt sé mar gheall ar TG4, cé chomh maith is atá sé and that it is delightful that it has been such a success. Tá sé tar éis saibhreas nua a thabhairt dúinn. However, when did we last hear rock music on Radio na Gaeltachta? People decided that Gaeltacht people should not listen to rock music. I would like to know the person who made that decision because he said to the young people of the Gaeltacht that if they had been born in Brittany or elsewhere, d'fhéadfadh siad bheith ag éisteacht le cheol na Briotáine agus roc cheol á chur i láthair i dteanga na háite—
Bíonn sé ar Radio na Gaeltactha san oíche.
Is fíor sin. Tá sé sin tar éis tarlú, ach bhí an argóint le é sin a chur ar fáil ag dul ar aghaidh ar feadh deich mbliain nó cúig bhliain déag. Bhí cruinniú agam féin leo. It is the attitude. One of the focal points of Seachtain na Gaeilge is a monster céilí. That might have enormous relevance for a certain group of people, but we should know that it is not attractive to the majority of young people if our aim is to spread the message wider. Effectively, we are doing something atá cur i bhfeidhm aige do roinnt áirithe de dhaonra na tíre but that is not available to the rest.
Ba mhaith an rud é dá gcuirfimis níos mó achmhainní agus infheistíocht i muintir na Gaeltachta agus sna Gaeltachtaí féin chun go mbéadh seans acu maireachtáil ó thús go deireadh trí Ghaeilge. Ba chomhair go mbéadh sin mar pholasaí an Stáit i gcónaí. Is ceann de na rudaí is tábhachtaí dúinn é. Ba cheart chomh maith go mbéadh seans ag daoine lasmuigh de na Gaeltachtaí a gcuid Gaeilge a chleachtadh agus a úsáid. Aontaíom go mór leis an bpointe sin. Tá sé sin ag tarlú.
Mar dhuine óg sa Daingean, is beag Gaeilge a chloisfeá an uair sin i mbaile an Daingean. Tá i bhfad níos mó Gaeilge á úsáid i mbaile an Daingean inniu ná mar a bhí 40 bliain ó shin. That is success. D'fhéadfadh duine dul isteach in aon pub nó siopa sa Daingean agus Gaeilge a úsáid. Ní tharlódh sin 40 bliain ó shin.
Mr. Ryan
Airgead do mhuintir na Gaeltachta. Sin é an fáth.
If the reason is money, invest more of it. Tá sé ag éirí ansin agus is breá go bhfuil an forbairt sin ag tarlú.
Má tá aon locht ar an díospóireacht seo, sin gur trua nach dtarlaíonn sí níos minicí. Mar is léir óna bhfuil cloiste go dtí seo go bhfuil an-chuid daoine sa Teach seo le líofacht Ghaeilge agus cumas cainte ar féidir leo smaointe an-doimhne a chur in iúil trí mheán na Gaeilge. Pé rud atá ráite ag an Seanadóir Manning ag tosach na díospóireachta, is fiú go mór an díospóireacht seo a bheith ann inniu.
Uaireanta braithim go bhfuil an-dul chun cinn á dhéanamh agam nuair a chuirim san áireamh líon na ndaoine óga atá ag freastal ar scoileanna lánGhaeilge agus ar an nGaeltacht agus atá ag plé le ceol agus rince Gaelach. Tugann sé sin an-misneach dom. Is maith liom an cruth atá ar TG4 – tá proifisiúnachas, neart agus bríomhaireacht ag baint leis an gcainéal a thugann an-misneach dom. Agus is amhlaidh i gcás Raidió na Gaeltachta. Ní fíor a rá go bhfuil an Ghaeilge ag dul ar gcúl.
Ach bím buartha faoi ghnéithe eile den gceist seo agus ag deireadh na haoise seo caite, nuair a bhí measúnú á dhéanamh againn ar an méid a bhí bainte amach agus ar a raibh fós le déanamh, chuir roinnt daoine an cheist, an mbeidh an Ghaeilge beo ag an gcéad míleaois eile. Ba cheart an cheist sin a phlé go domhain agus má féidir leis an nglúin seo aon rud a dhéanamh nár deineadh cheana, tá sé de dhualgas orainn é sin a dhéanamh.
Chuir sé lagmhisneach orm nuair a foilsíodh cnuasach filíochta ag deireadh na bliana agus nuair a iarradh ar roinnt filí dánta móra na haoise a bhailiú agus an dán ab fhearr a scriobhadh sa tír seo a roghnú astu siúd. Foilsíodh an cnuasach sin in aon leabhar amháin. Bhí 99 dán Béarla ann agus dán amháin i nGaeilge, le Cathal Ó Searcaigh. Chuir sé sin alltacht orm. Nuair a smaoinítear ar an liriciúlacht a bhaineann le filíocht Mháire Mhac an tSaoi, is ábhar iontais é nár deineadh tagairt dó. Nuair a chuirtear san áireamh an liriciúlacht agus an idirnáisiúnachas atá le sonrú ar fhilíocht Sheáin Uí Ríordáin – na domhainsmaointe agus an existentialism – is ait nár deineadh oiread is tagairt amháin dó. Gan trácht ar dhaoine mar Mháirtín Ó Direáin agus Seán Ó Tuama agus daoine atá níos nua-aimseartha fós.
Ní fiú an teanga muna mbíonn an litríocht ann. Ní fiú a bheith ag treabhadh leis muna bhfuil sé ann mar eochair do dhaoine óga chun teacht ar shaothair na bhfilí móra. Chuireadh sé as go mór domsa mura mbeadh i mo chumas féin filíocht Sheáin Uí Ríordáin, nó Mháire Mhac an tSaoi, Aogán Ó Rathaille nó Eoghan Ó Súilleabháin a léamh dom féin chun sonas agus sásamh a thabhairt dom féin. Sin an rud a thugann sásamh dom go bhfuil roinnt éigin den teanga agam, ionas go bhfuil sé i mo chumas saothair na bhfilí sin a léamh agus machnamh a dhéanamh orthu.
N'fheadar cá mbeidh an fhilíocht sin i gceann caoga bliain eile? Táimid ag iarraidh ar an Aire feachtas foilsitheoireachta a chur ar bun i dtreo is gur féidir filíocht Sheáin Uí Ríordáin – Eireaball Spideoige, Brosna agus na leabhair sin – a fhoilsiú mar níl siad á fhoilsiú faoi láthair. Tá sé de chúram ar na hollscoileanna meastachán nua-aimseartha ar shaothair na bhfilí móra sin. Tá mé ag iarraidh ar an Aire an nudge a thabhairt dóibh, nó pé spreagadh atá ag teastáil chun é sin a dhéanamh sar i bhfad.
Is cuimhin linn go léir na píosaí áille próis a bhíodh san Irish Times – píosa amháin in aghaidh na seachtaine. Tá an-chuid daoine ann a chreideann go raibh dearadh níos fearr ar an bprós ná mar a bhí ar an fhilíocht fiú amháin – bhí an caighdeán chomh hard agus na smaointe chomh domhain. Dá bhféadfaimis áiteamh ar an Irish Times chun na píosaí sin go léir a chur ar fáil arís i bhfoirm leabhráin ionas go bhféadfaí iad a léamh arís agus machnamh a dhéanamh orthu.
Tá mé ag cur cúram ar an Aire iarracht níos fearr a dhéanamh chun go mbeidh litríocht mór na linne seo ar fáil do dhaltaí óga na linne seo chugainn. Muna dhéanfar sin, ní bheidh sa teanga ach rud an-tanaí ar fad. Teanga gan litríocht, ní bhíonn aon fréamhacha aici. Muna bhfuil an litríocht ann ní bhíonn na fréamhacha domhain.
Tá ísliú céime ag teacht ar chaighdeán na Gaeilge sa bhunscoil agus sa mheánscoil agus caithfear tabhairt faoi. Cuireann sé lagmhisneach orm nuair a fheicim páistí ó thithe áirithe a bhfuil saibhreas acu agus teacht acu ar Ghaelscoil agus bíonn an saibhreas oideachais sin acu. Bíonn an dátheangachas acu ón tosach agus tá sé an-éasca dóibh ansin an triú teanga a shealbhú. Tá headstart ag na páistí atá ag freastal ar na scoileanna lánGhaeilge. Ach tá an caighdeán ag dul i léig in aghaidh an lae i gcuid de bhunscoileanna na tíre agus ní mór feachtas éigin a chur ar bun chun an scéal sin a réiteach.
Ba cheart cúrsaí inseirbhíse sa Ghaeilge a thabhairt do mhúinteoirí, mar aon le modheolaíochtaí agus téacsleabhair nua-aimseartha. Muna ndéanfar é sin, beidh an-chuid daoine ann nach mbeidh an bunús Gaeilge acu. Ghoillfeadh sé sin go mór orm.
Níl drochmhisneach orm ag deireadh an lae. Tá toil an phobail trí chéile i leith na Gaeilge níos fearr ná mar a bhí riamh. Ach é sin ráite, tá an-chuid rudaí ann gur chóir a dhéanamh agus ceann amháin díobh sin ná díriú ar an mbunoideachas. Ach ní féidir a bheith ag brath ar mhúinteoirí agus ar scoileanna na tíre chun an Ghaeilge a chothú agus a chur chun cinn. Ní ceart é sin. Má bhímid ag brath ar an gcóras oideachais leis féin, teipfidh orainn. Ní leor an dúshlán a thabhairt do mhúinteoirí amháin.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
As it is now 6 p.m., we must adjourn the debate. However, Senator Quill will have an opportunity to conclude her contribution on another occasion.
A number of people have expressed an interest in contributing to the debate and it is proposed to give them an opportunity to do so in the near future. I express our thanks to the Minister of State, Deputy Ó Cuív, for being present.
Ní bheidh sé bliain eile.
Ní bheidh.