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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 3 Jul 2001

Vol. 167 No. 10

Order of Business.

Before I call the Leader of the House on the Order of Business, on my own behalf and, I am sure, on behalf of all Members of the House, I extend to our colleague, Tom Hayes, sincere good wishes and congratulations on his election to Dáil Éireann.

On behalf of the Government side of the House, I wish to be associated with the Cathaoirleach's good wishes and congratulations to former Senator and new Deputy, Tom Hayes. I hope the experience he gained in the Seanad and the goodwill which he enjoys on all sides of the House will be a benefit to him in his work on behalf of his constituents in Tipperary South over the coming years.

The Order of Business is No. 1, referral of the motion regarding the Protection of Young Persons (Employment) Act, 1996 to the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business, to be taken without debate; No. 2, motion re Customs and Excise (Mutual Assistance) Act, 2001, to be taken without debate; No. 3, motion re Article 3 of the fourth protocol of the Treaty of Amsterdam, to be taken without debate; No. 5, Agriculture Appeals Bill, 2001, [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] – Report and Final Stages; No. 6, Standards in Public Office Bill, 2000 – Second Stage, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 20 minutes and of other Senators not to exceed ten minutes and Senators may share time; No. 7, Vocational Education (Amendment) Bill, 2000 – Committee and Remaining Stages.

I join the Cathaoirleach and the Leader in their generous congratulations to our colleague, Tom Hayes, on his election to the Dáil. All Members will agree he was a splendid candidate who fought a great campaign. He well deserved his victory. He was a good Senator who held the agriculture brief for Fine Gael for the past four years and filled that position with great industry and distinction. As the Leader pointed out, he benefited greatly from his four years in this House and the electorate saw that also. He is now going to a different House; it is a bigger House but not necessarily a better or busier House. It is where he wants to be and I know his stay there will be of lengthy duration and that his contribution will be as distinguished as it was in this House.

On the Order of Business, the Leader said last week there would be one debate before we break next week on the situation following the Nice treaty referendum. Will the Leader be more specific about that? I notice item 4 is not being dealt with today. Will it be possible, when that item is taken, for the reasons given by the sole member for the increase in membership of the tribunal to be made available to Members of this House? After all, it was the Houses of the Oireachtas, not the Government, which appointed the tribunal. The additional back-up information which the Government is given should also be made available to Senators before we deal with No. 4.

I join in the congratulations to Senator Hayes. I will miss him. I enjoyed giving him my views on the live cattle trade during agriculture debates. I will now have to start torturing a different spokesperson on agriculture.

I wish to ask the Leader about two matters, one of which I brought up before. Can he ask the relevant Minister to inform people that the foot and mouth crisis is over and to ask them to remove the dry mats that are still at the doorways of so many premises? They have been removed from the entrances to Leinster House. This is a practical matter because my colleagues in accident and emergency departments have told me they are becoming a serious health hazard due to people tripping over them.

Second, can a debate be held on the crisis in nursing as soon as the House returns? I am sure Senator Leonard will support my call. Many important hospital departments, particularly intensive care and oncology units, have only about 70% of the staff they require. Many other units and wards have only 50% staffing. This is intolerable and I am sure the Minister for Health and Children is aware of the problem. However, Members of this House should have the opportunity to bring forward suggestions for ameliorating this crisis.

I wish to be associated with the congratulations to our colleague, Tom Hayes, on his magnificent victory in the Tipperary South by-election. I wish him a long and fruitful period of service in the Lower House.

Perhaps the amendment I introduced last week to the Electoral (Amendment) Bill, 2000, will be considered again by the Leader of the House with a view to ensuring that vacancies of this nature are filled by the party from which the vacancy arises, for whatever reason. That would solve the problem of holding another by-election and would restore some balance to the House in terms of membership.

There is one chance of that happening.

I am sure my proposal will not fall on deaf ears on the other side of the House.

Nothing will fall on deaf ears.

I support the call from Senator Henry for a debate on nursing. I want that debate extended to a wider area, that of health. The Leader was to look at two major areas for debate before the recess, one was the aftermath of the Nice treaty referendum and the other was a general debate on the state of the nation, in which health would feature strongly. If there is time, I would like to see that area dealt with by the Leader. Concern was expressed that this debate should be held.

The resignation of Northern Ireland's First Minister and the subsequent forced resignation of the Deputy First Minister are a cause of concern. A considerable crisis is developing with the marching season upon us and the problems of decommissioning, policing and demilitarisation remaining. I ask the Leader of the House to request the Minister for Foreign Affairs to ensure that the Government expresses its concern and that of the Houses of the Oireachtas that everything that can be done should be done to stop the situation deteriorating.

I call on the Leader to request the Minister of State at the Department of Public Enterprise, Deputy Jacob, to immediately restate Ireland's total opposition to nuclear power, arising from the recent British Government energy review in which the energy chief warned the British Prime Minister that existing facilities would have to be replaced and that immediate approval is needed if energy adequacy is to be maintained. This would be a disaster for Ireland if it were to proceed. While Britain is at the start of its decision-making process, this is the correct time for the Minister to call on Europe and on the resources of Government to oppose the proposed measures.

I congratulate Senator Tom Hayes on his election to the Dáil and wish him every success. In light of his contributions in this House, I am sure he will make an excellent Deputy.

I am disappointed there has not been a debate on autism, which was promised to the House since last September. I ask that it take priority in the next session.

The need to have the NRA before the House is also a pressing matter. A burning issue around the country is the speed with which plans for roads and motorways are being put before people with a limited time of just one or two weeks for their submissions to be made. The country is in uproar due to lack of consultation. There has not been an opportunity to debate the democratic right of people to have the time to look at proposals that will affect their lives. The results of these decisions will be with us for 50 to 100 years while we cannot be sure that they are necessary. I hope that the NRA will come before the House at the beginning of the next session.

Senator Manning has raised with the Leader the issue of the changes to the Order of Business concerning the motion regarding the terms of reference of the Tribunal of Inquiry into Planning Matters. Why was it removed from the paper today? Was it because the Government failed to follow proper procedures? Will the Leader in future ask the Department responsible to circulate the application made by the tribunals of inquiry to every Member of this House?

I support the call by Senator Henry for a debate on nursing. However, we would be treading on dangerous ground if we mentioned the word "crisis" at this stage because, in many instances, the position in relation to nursing shortages has improved. It would, therefore, be extremely inadvisable to refer to a crisis in nursing, particularly if it led to a belief among members of the public that there has been a diminution in the quality of care provided. The debate requested by the Senator should be expanded to include an evaluation of the Commission on Nursing. This would allow us to discover how many of its recommendations have been implemented and also provide an opportunity to discuss the future of the nursing profession in terms of the education of its members and its development.

Will the Leader enlighten the House with regard to the rationale used by the Government in blocking the ESB's plans for expansion into Poland, particularly as the company appears to have obtained approval from the appropriate Minister? Surely this move is damaging, not only to the ESB but also to the country's image abroad. Will the Leader outline the Government's thinking on this matter?

The Attorney General proposed the concept of establishing a forum on the judicial system when he spoke in County Kerry last Saturday. He advanced some reasonable and fair arguments in favour of the establishment of such a forum. Will the Leader outline the Government's position in respect of this matter?

A number of calls have been made for a debate on health. That debate should be expanded to include an examination of our relationship with the Third World and the standard of health care available in Third World countries. I have just returned from a trip to a particular Third World country where I discovered, on visits to a number of schools, that one in four of the children I met will die within five years and two in four will be dead within ten years. I also discovered that average life expectancy in the country concerned is 42 years of age and that none of the children to whom I refer will reach it. HIV-AIDS is devastating southern Africa and if we are intent on having a debate on health, we should expand it to include a discussion on how we might assist Third World countries in this regard. We must pressurise international providers of drugs into making available assistance to Third World countries. This will ensure the people in the countries concerned, who live in absolute poverty, can expect to live beyond the age of 42 years in the future.

I do not wish to comment on the health situation in Ireland. I merely wish to state that when one enters a school in a Third World country and looks at the beautiful young children there, it is shocking to realise that very few of them will live beyond 12 years of age. There are 12 year olds looking after eight year olds in the countries concerned and eight year olds caring for six year olds. When discussing health care we must expand the debate into a consideration of how we can assist Third World countries and stop the spread of HIV-AIDS, which are decimating the population of the countries to which I refer.

Will the Leader bring to the attention of the Minister for Education and Science the need for an urgent reappraisal of the position of children with special educational needs in mainstream schools? I have received increasing numbers of letters from parents and principals who are unable to obtain the services of special care assistants for children with special educational needs in primary schools. The Department of Education and Science is blocking the wishes of parents, children, teachers and school principals in this regard, which is utterly unacceptable. It is disgraceful that children with special educational needs cannot be educated in mainstream primary schools, which is what they, their parents and the school authorities desire.

That is an important matter but it has nothing to do with the Order of Business. Matters such as that should be raised in a more appropriate way.

I join in the congratulations extended to Tom Hayes who has been elected to Dáil Éireann. Tom is a personable and capable gentleman and I have no doubt he will make a major contribution to public life. I wish him well.

Will the Leader consider holding a debate on Northern Ireland before the summer recess? We have reached a sensitive juncture in the peace process and it is time for moderate and constructive voices to be heard. Complacency is the danger as we feel the Good Friday Agreement is safe. That may not be so and, as we were energetic in securing it, we must give leadership now.

Senators Manning and Coogan called for a debate on the Treaty of Nice, to which I have committed time. I am arranging it with the Minister's diary and will return to the matter on the Order of Business soon.

No. 4 was relayed to the leaders last week but I will circulate the information again. Senators Henry and Leonard called for a debate on nursing, particularly the commission's progress, for which there will be time in the next session. It used to be that we said that if we had the money, we could have the staff. Money is available but there are still staffing difficulties. However, as Senator Leonard stated, there are improvements. This is a worthwhile call from Senators with first hand knowledge of the medical service.

Senators Costello and Lanigan called for a debate on health. Senator Lanigan also seeks a debate on health care in the Third World for which there will be time in the next session.

I assure Senator Costello that there will be a Seanad by-election in early October and everyone will have the opportunity to exercise his or her democratic right through the ballot box. I look forward to a new Senator on the Government side.

I will pass on the comments of Senators Costello and Ó Murchú about Northern Ireland to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and convey to the Minister of State, Deputy Jacob, Senator Fitzgerald's concerns about nuclear power. Also in response to Senator Fitzgerald, we will hold a debate on autism. While legislation takes priority over statements and debates, I will set time for the debate in question in the next session.

The National Roads Authority and the approximately 25,000 acres of land required for new roads, linking our major cities and the west to improve the prospects of rural areas, were raised. Population is declining in many areas, such as my own, where it fell by 34% in 30 years. These roads will give areas, such as counties Leitrim, Roscommon and Sligo, an equal opportunity to attract industry. A fair price should be given to farmers surrendering land that might have been in the family for generations. We all welcome this progress and there will be time allocated in the next session for a debate on the matter.

Senator Coghlan raised the matter of the ESB's expansion into Poland which the Minister favoured but the decision was made by the Department of Finance on the basis of a commercial judgment. We can debate the matter later.

The Senator had no hand in it.

The Cathaoirleach expressed his opinion on Senator O'Dowd's suggestion. The Senator can pursue his argument on the Vocational Education (Amendment) Bill, 2000, which will be before the House today.

Order of Business agreed to.
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