Order of Business.

Mr. Cassidy

The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on job creation and the role of FÁS, with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes. Senators may share time.

Mr. Manning: I am concerned at the amount of business we are getting in the House. I asked the Leader last week if he could give the House some indication as to the legislation to be taken between now and the end of session. I understand, for reasons which he has explained to me, that he cannot do it this morning. The Opposition and the House in general would like to know, given that there is a dearth of legislation. The point was raised yesterday. If past experience is anything to go on, we will end up at the last week of the session with four or five Bills, all Stages of which the Government and the Departments will be asking to be taken on the same day. It is a dreadful way to organise business when we have virtually no legislation in front of us.

What is the position on the Pensions Bill? This Bill was brought in during the first week of the session and Second Stage was passed. Committee Stage has not been taken yet. My understanding is that the Bill will be almost as big again when Committee Stage is taken as it will have two or three new chapters. It was published as half a Bill, which is a strange way to do business. It is bad practice to introduce a Bill on Second Stage and bring along what is virtually a new Bill on Committee Stage. Will the Leader indicate when the Government amendments will be available for Committee Stage, the extent of these amendments and what time will be given to the Opposition to study them? My understanding is that virtually half the Bill will be new.

I would also ask for a discussion on the events in Afghanistan. It is clear we do not have anything of value to say on the military aspect of the war in Afghanistan but we have a good deal to say and a good deal of expertise to offer on the whole humanitarian and aid aspects and on consensus building, if that is possible, in the post-Taliban situation. It would be useful if, next week, we could have a full debate on Afghanistan with, perhaps, particular emphasis on the humanitarian aid and the new government-building process there.

Mr. Norris

I support Senator Manning in his request for further information on the programme of business and, in particular, the legislative proposals that will come before the House before Christmas. The Leader gave a firm indication yesterday that he would communicate this information to the House, but I understand there may be some technical difficulties. This is an endemic situation. It is not just this particular regime. As long as I have been in the House we have always had this problem. I do not want to lay political blame. It must go back to the Departments as they leave the preparation of legislation and can bounce it into us just before Christmas. It really is an inappropriate way to conduct parliamentary life.

I support Senator Manning's call for a debate on Afghanistan. It is a most important time particularly when things seem to be going well from the allies' point of view. I am concerned that the unfortunate civilian population of Afghanis tan will be left to suffer in a mess, as has happened repeatedly every time foreign powers have intervened.

I thank the Leader for the concern he showed yesterday when I raised the question of the fate of a young Nigerian woman who is to be stoned to death immediately upon the delivery of her child. The House may be interested to know we got a resolution passed through the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs yesterday. It will go to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Nigerian ambassador and all the European Union foreign affairs committees. If the Leader was able to reinforce this resolution, in the light of these facts we may be able to save this young woman's life from tragic circumstances.

Yesterday, the Leader promised to bring up the question of parking and clamping in Dublin city and I hope he does. Senator Kiely spoke passionately about country people having difficulty parking. They may well do but there are also the rights of residents to consider. If we are to have a debate on traffic, which I encourage the Leader to schedule, he might consider the behaviour of people, many of whom are from the country, who persistently drive in bus lanes and clog up traffic. I was overtaken on the inside by cars whose registrations indicated they were from Cork, Louth, Wicklow and Galway.

Mr. Finneran

The urban-rural divide.

Mr. Costello

I too have concerns about the way legislation is being dealt with. There are 11 Bills in the Dáil, some of which are very important and have passed through this House. Matters which are raised on a daily basis in this House include the Containment of Nuclear Weapons Bill, 2000 and the Radiological Protection (Amendment) Bill, 1998 are of considerable concern considering the current international climate. I ask the Leader of the House to find out when the Dáil proposes to take these Bills. There is no point in our passing legislation through this House if it is to sit on the shelf in the Dáil for long periods.

In the context of Senator Norris's point regarding the fate of a Nigerian woman, it is important to find out from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform what type of agreements he is negotiating with countries whose citizens come to this country as asylum-seekers whether the countries are African or eastern European.

Mr. Norris

Hear, hear.

Mr. Costello

The Minister should be invited to outline his guidelines to the House on what agreements have been negotiated to date and what agreements he proposes.

I ask the Leader for a pre-budget debate on education because last year presented an interminable crisis in the education sector. There is a huge number of issues to be addressed, ranging from pre-school education, which is scarce, and the teachers' dispute to the rigid and bureaucratic implementation of regulations on teacher numbers. The Department is using red tape that is off-the-wall in its allocation of teachers to schools. There are important issues which should be discussed prior to the budget.

Mr. Finneran

In view of the fact that we will have the euro on 1 January, just six weeks before the complete transition from the punt to the euro, I ask the Leader to hold a debate on the issue in the run up. Particular emphasis needs to be placed on whether the public will be protected under consumer affairs legislation. This issue is being raised across all areas of economic activity and also in State areas. For example, various health boards say that it will cost from £10 million down to £2 million. It is appropriate that this House should debate the issue and send a message to general commercial life and our public bodies that this is not an opportunity to rip off the general public. There is also an information gap regarding the euro.

Mrs. Jackman

We were told that we would have health insurance authority regulations relating to risk equalisation last October and we still have not had the Bill in the House. I hope that the Leader requests that it be brought before us before Christmas. It is of great importance.

I join Senator Costello in calling for a debate on education. Yesterday, I raised the need for speech therapists, psychological assessment and support for young people at risk. We have been waiting years for an opportunity to debate this and I hope that will be foremost in the Leader's mind when he asks the appropriate Ministers to agree to my requests.

Labhrás Ó Murchú

I support the call for a debate on Afghanistan. We have all seen the urgency which attended the military aspect of the response to the events of 11 September by the coalition which has emerged. It would be helpful if the same urgency applied on the humanitarian front because, in many cases, under-developed countries are fertile ground for terrorism. For example, the AIDS epidemic in Africa is worsened because medicines are not being made available because companies own patents on them. It would be worthwhile to use what has happened in the last three months to see what we can do to further humanitarian issues.

Dr. Henry

I support Senator Costello's call for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to come to the House to tell us what arrangements he has made with the Nigerian government regarding the deportation of those who fail to get asylum in this country. I raised this last week and the Leader said he would bring it to the attention of the Minister, as I am sure he did. It is particularly important in view of the fact that I know of at least one woman who objected to the way women have been treated in certain areas of Nigeria and she has been refused asylum here. She must go back to a very uncertain regime. I would be grateful if the Leader would bring it to the Minister's attention again.

Senator Jackman made a good point in asking what is happening regarding the risk equalisation regulations because this is a serious matter for the VHI, which has served the country well for the last 40 years.

Mr. Farrell

I ask for a debate on planning and the role of An Bord Pleanála. An Taisce is currently opposing rural development and farmers in the west can no longer use their land in the interests of their families and as they see fit. Whenever an Taisce objects, it wins because it has members in Bord Pleanála. What chance has the ordinary person? It is the same as going to law with the devil when the court is in hell. They are in there and they should not be. Bord Pleanála has to be transparent and open rather than being influenced by cliques and organisations that are out to destroy the farming community, in the west in particular.

Mr. J. Doyle

The Government has announced its intention to publish the Book of Estimates today. It is somewhat alarming that the Government should decide to do so on a day when the hearts and minds of the Irish people will be on an event elsewhere. Arising from the publication of the Book of Estimates, could we have that debate on the economy next week as a matter of urgency?

Miss Quill

I support the calls for a debate on education. I remind the Leader that for some time I have been calling for such a debate. I particularly want to debate the precarious position of science in secondary schools and institutes of technology. The current situation is deeply worrying to people who are concerned about the future of young people and the high-tech sector of the economy. Something needs to be done urgently. This is national science week and a number of voluntary bodies are trying to highlight this deficiency in the education system with a view to bringing about some improvement. It is only fit and proper that we debate this issue in this House with a view to challenging the Minister as to what will be done and how soon.

Ms Ormonde

I, too, support the calls for a debate on education. In some areas we have done extremely well and that needs to be highlighted in that debate. I would like to consider the area of science that Senator Quill referred to. This is a very serious issue and I would welcome the views of the Minister on it.

I second the call for the debate on the planning process, the role of Bord Pleanála, how it makes its decisions and its transparency and accountability. My views are well known on this issue but I would like a representative of an Bord Pleanála, through the Minister, to explain to the House how decisions are made and what the composition of the board is. I am uneasy at times with the composition of the board.

Mr. Cassidy

Senators Manning and Norris raised the matter of the forthcoming list of legislation. As I said previously, roughly one third of all Bills have been initiated in this House. I will endeavour to let the leaders' offices have the list by Tuesday. For the information of the House, the European Communities and Swiss Confederation Bill will be initiated here next Wednesday.

Senators Manning and Costello called for an update on the Pensions Bill. When Second Stage of that Bill was going through this House, the Minister informed the House that Committee Stage would be taken in this House in early December. I take the point made by Senator Manning and I will make an inquiry about this after the Order of Business.

Senators Manning, Ó Murchú and Costello called for a debate on Afghanistan, which I will endeavour to arrange next week.

Senators Norris, Costello and Henry expressed strong views about an incident concerning a young Nigerian woman, which I will pass on to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I agree with most of the sentiments expressed.

Senator Norris raised the matter of parking regulations, particularly for those with cars north of the Liffey. The parking regulations relate only to cars, not to bicycles. In the areas about which we spoke yesterday, which are non-residential, there should be no clamping of cars after 7 p.m. I was hoping Members of this House who are influential, and one of whom is a former Lord Mayor, would intervene to ensure common sense prevails for businesses that employ people, particularly in the tourist area. People north of the Liffey are entitled to have a social life and business people there are entitled to employ people. I am sure Senator Joe Doyle, in particular, who is an influential person in this area, will endeavour to have this matter addressed.

Mr. Manning

How about the local TD?

Mr. Cassidy

Local TDs, future TDs and former TDs should be asked to intervene to prevent this lunacy. People who visit the city from the UK and Northern Ireland should not be penalised in the manner in which they are at present.

Senators Costello, Jackman, Quill and Ormonde called for a pre-budget debate on edu cation. I was pleased to hear this morning that in the Estimates being published today education is high on the Government's priority list in relation to spending. I will endeavour to arrange for such a debate.

Senator Finneran called for a debate on the euro, given there are only six weeks to its introduction. This is a good idea and I will arrange to make time available for such a debate. Senators Jackman and Henry raised the matter of risk equalisation about which I will have inquiries made.

Senators Farrell and Ormonde called for a debate on the composition of An Bord Pleanála, given the various views expressed on it, particularly the public debate on it on the "Late Late Show" and other forums in recent weeks. It was encouraging for people in rural Ireland that the Minister of State, Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív, travelled from county to county in the past four or five weeks to hear people's views. Hundreds of people turned out and venues had to be moved to community centres to accommodate the numbers attending. That shows the dilemma facing people in rural Ireland in ensuring their right to live in the place where they were born. We all support them in this. Everyone concerned is trying to achieve the same goal, but the public perception of what is currently happening, as highlighted by the Senators, is a major cause for alarm. I will arrange for time to be made available for such a debate before the Christmas recess.

Senator Joe Doyle welcomed the fact that the Book of Estimates is to be published today. I hope that will not clash with the game the Irish team are playing, in which we all wish them the best of luck.

Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 15 Nov 2001