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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 9 Feb 2012

Vol. 213 No. 6

Adjournment Matters

Human Trafficking

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Sean Sherlock, and regret that the Minister for Justice and Equality was unable to stay. I hope the Minister of State will highlight the issue I raise with the Minister. I propose to share time with Senator Katherine Zappone. I also welcome Ms Geraldine Rowley from Ruhama to the Visitors Gallery.

The Minister of State may have seen the "Prime Time" programme on prostitution which was broadcast on Tuesday last. The investigation highlighted the appalling circumstances experienced by women who are trafficked into this country and forced into prostitution. As Sarah Benson of Ruhama stated on the programme, prostitution is a market led trade and trafficking has become so prolific that so-called punters are able to order sex like they order takeaway food. Men pick up the telephone night after night and ask themselves whether they will have Chinese that night or if they will try Thai or Polish.

Pimps are making millions from this modern form of human slavery. Estimates put the value of the Irish sex industry at €250 million per annum. The nature of prostitution has changed dramatically, having moved from street corners, dark lanes and parked cars to anonymous apartments all over the country. Convicted pimps are continuing to operate without any fear of getting caught because the penalties are minuscule compared to the profits. We saw in the "Prime Time" programme Samantha Blandford who was convicted of organising prostitution some years ago and walked away with a fine of €6,500 and an 18 months suspended sentence. She was on the programme trying to recruit one of the "Prime Time" reporters as a prostitute, without any fear of getting caught.

The evidence from Sweden and Norway shows the best way to reduce prostitution is to criminalise supporters of sex. There is a growing coalition outside the House, under the umbrella of the Turn Off The Red Light campaign for Irish laws to be changed in that respect. Last October, the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, in response to a Private Members' debate tabled by Senator Zappone and her colleagues said the issue is being considered by the Government. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, if he can provide an update in that regard, because the law needs to be changed as a matter of urgency. This has gone on for long enough.

I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House and Senator Power for raising the issue as an Adjournment matter and sharing her time. As Senator Power has identified, and as the Minister of State is aware, the Independent group tabled a motion on this issue in October 2011 to criminalise the purchase of sex in order to curb prostitution and trafficking for sexual exploitation.

The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, whom the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, represents, has said that offences with regard to prostitution, as they exist on the Statute Book, can be committed by the prostitute, the client or a third party, for example, a pimp. It is also an offence to organise prostitution, coerce or compel a person to be a prostitute, knowingly live off the earnings of a prostitute, or keep or manage a brothel, yet we are faced with the graphic evidence, already referred to by Senator Power, on the RTÉ documentary "Profiting from Prostitution" that these laws are clearly inadequate. This documentary mirrors Irish research on the issue.

In response to the matter the Minister, Deputy Shatter, said he would hold a public consultation. I have been in touch with his office a couple of times. On 20 December he sent me a letter to say that he hoped to announce a consultation exercise as soon as possible in January and that his office had almost completed a paper on the consultation.

I have three questions I hope the Minister of State can answer. Like my colleague, Senator Power, does the Minister intend to bring forward legislation to criminalise the purchase of sex? What we really want to know is should it be the law, following which we can then consider the legal and constitutional implications? When will the consultation process begin on this issue? I also recall that the Attorney General has a legal opinion on legislating for the criminalising of the purchase of sex. Would the Minister, Deputy Shatter, consider making this information available? As Senator Power said, the status quo is not working. The policy of out of sight, out of mind — which underlines our current laws — is extremely damaging.

I thank Senators Power and Zappone for raising this matter. As the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, has said, he extends his apologies that he is unable to be present, therefore I speak on his behalf.

Before commenting on Sweden's legislative model which criminalises the purchase of sexual services I wish to outline the legislative measures in place to tackle the phenomena of human trafficking and organised prostitution. Ireland has strong legislation to combat the scourge of human trafficking for sexual exploitation. The Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Act 2008 gave effect to Ireland's obligations in various international instruments to criminalise human trafficking. The trafficking of persons for sexual exploitation, including prostitution, is a criminal offence and those convicted of such trafficking are liable to life imprisonment. In addition, it is an offence under the legislation for any person to knowingly solicit or importune a trafficked person, in any place, for the purpose of prostitution.

In the case of prostitution legislation, there are a number of offences directly aimed at protecting prostitutes from exploitation. Under the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993, it is an offence to organise prostitution, coerce or compel a person to be a prostitute, knowingly live off the earnings of a prostitute, or keep or manage a brothel. In addition, the solicitation offence in the legislation is targeted at buyers, sellers and third parties, such as pimps. Buyers as well as sellers are liable to prosecution and the same penalties apply.

The 1993 Act, as amended, provides that a person who solicits or importunes a child — whether or not for the purposes of prostitution — to commit an act which would constitute carnal knowledge or sexual assault is guilty of an offence. Moreover, in addition to being charged with such solicitation, a person who engages in a sexual act with the child could be charged with serious offences under sexual offences legislation. In these circumstances, consent to the sexual act is not a defence. Strong as the law is, there is always room for improvement and the law on prostitution is being reviewed with a view to enhancing the protection of vulnerable persons.

I should add that the law is being enforced. An Garda Síochána continually targets the individuals and criminal groups involved in prostitution and related activities. A number of individuals and criminal groups have been identified, arrested, prosecuted and convicted. The Garda carries out targeted operations to address crime in regard to prostitution, and these often encompass situations where it is suspected that women and girls have been trafficked for the purposes of sexual exploitation. This includes monitoring of websites associated with the advertising of prostitution, targeting the activities of criminal groups involved in organised prostitution, brothel keeping and money laundering offences. Given the involvement of organised crime gangs, such operations may be supported by specialist assistance provided by units such as the Criminal Assets Bureau the Garda National Immigration Bureau and the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation.

As part of the review I mentioned earlier, the Minister announced in October that he would be arranging a consultation process on the future direction of prostitution legislation. A detailed discussion document to facilitate the consultation process is being prepared. It will be appreciated that the discussion document, if it is to fully inform the public, needs to be prepared carefully. It is expected that the document will be ready in the coming weeks.

The Senators have asked for clarification as to whether it is the Government's intention to change Ireland's laws on prostitution to bring them into line with the Swedish approach, as advocated by the Turn off the Red Light coalition. The Government has not made any decision in this matter. When the review, including public consultation, is concluded, the Minister will bring any legislative proposals to Government in the normal way.

While no decisions have been taken with regard to legislative proposals, it is important to point out, as was already indicated in the Seanad debate last October, that any proposal to criminalise the purchase of sex within our legal framework raises complex issues. A provision in the substantially different constitutional framework of one jurisdiction cannot be simply transposed into another jurisdiction's constitutional and legal framework.

The Minister does not wish to appear to be dismissing the Swedish model out of hand. All options will be considered but it is important to mention that there are issues which require in-depth examination. The Swedish offence of purchasing sexual services would appear to be a strict liability offence. There are difficulties in this jurisdiction in establishing offences of strict and absolute liability arising from the Supreme Court decision in the CC case. If the Swedish approach were adopted here, one party only to a two-way transaction between consenting adults would be guilty of an offence. The buyer only would be culpable and subject to penalty, with all that entails. The buyer would have no defence in law and the seller would not commit any offence in respect of the receipt of a consideration for sexual services. Criminalising one party only in this manner, were it not clearly justifiable on objective grounds, could be open to constitutional challenge.

There would obviously be concerns too, at criminalising the sale of sex by exploited persons. In addition to legal concerns, there are different and genuinely held views on this matter. The Minister does not believe that the introduction of a Swedish style ban could be advanced here without a considered public debate.

This is an issue which affects individuals and communities. It is also a societal issue. Public debate should be open to the widest possible audience and the Minister wants to ensure that everyone who wishes to make a contribution to this important debate is given the opportunity to do so. That is the reason the Minister has decided on a consultation process before charting the way ahead.

I would like to thank the Senators for raising this issue today. The Minister would like to reiterate that everything that can reasonably be done to combat prostitution will be done, and he looks forward to the outcome of the consultation process, which is expected to get under way shortly.

I thank the Minister of State for filling in for the Minister for Justice and Equality. I agree that a public consultation is very important. It is important to have people informed about this issue before a major change is made. I am not reassured by the statement in the script given to the Minister of State that the Department of Justice and Equality is of the view that our current law is strong, or that it is being enforced. "Prime Time" clearly showed that is not the case and that is also the view of the likes of Ruhama, which is an organisation that works with women involved in prostitution.

I welcome the Minister of State's statement that the public consultation document should be ready in the next few weeks. I hope that we can then move forward.

I echo most of what Senator Power said. I thank the Minister of State for being here on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality. I find it difficult to welcome the fact that the consultation paper will be ready in the matter of a couple of weeks, as I got that same statement on 20 December from the Minister. So we wait and so the enslaved women wait. I would like the Minister of State to convey back to the Minister for Justice and Equality that I did not hear any different words or arguments being put forward today than those provided by the Minister of State, Deputy Lynch, on behalf of the Minister when she was responding to our independent motion in October 2011. The same arguments were given to us then. I am not getting a sense that there is any sense or urgency from the Minister or from the Government on this at the moment.

We must have due regard to what Senators Power and Zappone are saying. If such a statement was made in October 2011 and if they justifiably feel that no progress has been made on that issue, then I would like to assure them that I will speak to the Minister and that we need to make haste on it. I genuinely have regard to the statements that have been made.

As this is a cross-bench issue and affects all of us as a society, I hope that the Senators' views would have a major influence in the process and I hope that the Department would take seriously the views that have been expressed here today. I will talk directly with the Minister and try to move the process along.

Job Creation

I welcome the Minister of State back to the House again. I have raised on a number of occasions the issue of job creation, job losses and the responsibility of the Government and State agencies in the south east and in Waterford. I raise this Adjournment motion on foot of a response that my party colleague, Deputy Tóibín, received from a number of State enterprise agencies about a county by county breakdown of IDA grants, the number of IDA supported companies in each county, the number of jobs that have been created and lost in each county by the IDA, Enterprise Ireland and enterprise boards.

The last time the Minister of State was in the House, we spoke about the Forfás plan. The plan refers to the south east playing to its strengths. It mentions life sciences, clean technology, internationally trading services, agrifood and so on. I fully support that. However, I had two problems with the plan. First, it failed to address the core problem that the south east has the highest unemployment level in the country, 4% above the national average. Second, it did not set any clear, realistic, deliverable targets that would reduce that figure. Every region wants to see unemployment reduced and we want to see reductions across the board. I know the Government is working on this area, perhaps not to my satisfaction, but it has its own plans.

We are hearing from reports like this that the enterprise agencies will do all of these wonderful things for Waterford and the south east, but when we look at the hard facts and figures, that is not the case. Let us look at the grant aid that has been made available to IDA sponsored companies in Waterford over the last number of years. In 2006, it was €4.6 million. In 2007, it was €7.2 million. In 2008, it was €4.7 million. What did Waterford get when the downturn came? It got €854,000 in 2009 and €1.4 million in 2010. This happened despite the fact that the average investment by the IDA from 2006 to 2008 was about €85 million. In 2010 it was €120 million. The amount of grant aid being made available and spent by the IDA was going up, but the amount that Waterford is getting is going down. That has a knock-on effect across the region. Kilkenny received nothing in 2006, €635,000 in 2007, nothing in 2008, nothing in 2009 and nothing in 2010. Wexford received nothing in 2008, €190,000 in 2009 and €569,000 in 2010. This has happened in spite of the fact that we have high concentrations of investment going into Cork and Dublin. I do not wish to pitch this as a competition between any area, but I must make the point that the south east is lagging behind. It has the highest level of unemployment.

In two of the last three years, there was not a single visit by an IDA client company into Kilkenny. In two of the last three years, we have seen very few such visits to Wexford. Waterford has received a fair amount of visits, but the companies have not set up. However, the crunch is in the job losses because all of this is about whether the plans are working and whether we are creating jobs. In 2007, there were 6,300 sponsored jobs in Waterford. That dropped to 6,000 in 2008, to 5,600 in 2009, 5,300 in 2010 and 4,600 in 2011. We see the pattern of jobs being lost every year and not being replaced. It is great to have a report and say all of this stuff is happening, but the Forfás report does not put in place any realistic, deliverable, credible proposals that will deal with the facts that I have presented here today, which show that Waterford and the south-east region are lagging behind in job creation. The enterprise agencies are frankly not doing enough.

I endorse everything that Senator Cullinane has said. The south east lags behind in a range of areas, including medical provisions. The unemployment situation is dire. Waterford is the capital of the region and we have seen significant unemployment rise there in recent years, with very badly targeted approaches to resolve it. Wexford continues to be a real unemployment black spot. It ranks consistently third or fourth highest in the unemployment league. There needs to be a really focused effort, rather than just something that allows the Minister of State to answer on an Adjournment debate but does nothing for the people on the ground who are starved of employment and who are seeking to get it.

Wexford has suffered significantly because of the fall in the construction industry. Much of our employment was based on that sector and the collapse of that sector has given rise to 18% unemployment, and it is not a whole lot better across the region.

I am glad that both Senators have raised the issue. The last point made was about the over-dependence on the construction industry. That is part of the structural difficulty which exists in many of the regions outside of the larger urban conurbations, where the labour force moved into the construction industry.

When the construction industry fell apart, all of a sudden there were massive rates of unemployment. The south east, in particular, has seen its unemployment rate jump from 4.9% in 2007 — which was marginally above the countrywide average of 4.6% — to 18.2%, compared with a national average of 14.3%. There is a clear acknowledgement of the difficulties facing the south east. I will be frank and say that neither of the two Senators have proffered any solutions. We must acknowledge that State agencies such as Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland, as well as local authorities, academic institutions and enterprise boards, will have to be part of a plan to stem that tide of unemployment and reverse the trend.

The south-east action plan contains specific actions to address the unemployment problems affecting the south east. The plan, which is geographically oriented towards that area, was launched more than two months ago, on 2 December. Its intention is to provide for regular meetings with a forum representing the agencies and local stakeholders to progress its implementation.

The structural challenges faced by the south east region have built up over many years and will not be reversed by a simple set of actions. What is required is to build a stronger local enterprise base in the region as a whole. The report identifies many actions that can help deliver on that ambition, but it will only achieve so much. The Senators will acknowledge that we cannot reverse the unemployment trend overnight. There will need to be structural changes and investments in key areas in order to stem that tide. There are challenges for all agencies to build up the region's competitive advantage and then promote it in a co-ordinated manner.

One of the key issues that no single agency or Department can hope to address is the issue of the overall coherence of the region's value proposition to investors from home or abroad. What has arisen again and again in consultation with all the relevant stakeholders and agencies in the region is the need for greater co-ordination of effort from all those with an interest in improving the enterprise potential of the region. This was brought to the fore when the agencies, local authorities, CEBs, educational institutions and other local representative groups met with the Minister on 24 November last. That meeting was the first time a group of that nature had met with a focus solely on what could be done to improve the region's fortunes, which is worth noting. We must also bear in mind that the figures quoted by Senator Cullinane are from a time when a different political entity was at the helm. In all fairness, what this Government has done is to seek to meet the challenges faced by the south east head-on, in partnership with the State agencies. I understand the Senator will want to score a point off me, as Minister of State, but he should recognise that people across party political boundaries want to work together to stem the tide of unemployment.

With respect, I do not think I scored any points off the Minister of State.

The Minister intends in the coming year to facilitate a series of further meetings of that same group as a means of monitoring the implementation of the proposals in this report and also to forge greater co-operation and collaboration between the various stakeholders across the region. I hope Senator Cullinane will get on board with that process.

I regret the fact that the Minister of State's contribution was defensive. What I was putting on the record were facts, and at no point did I say the Minister of State who is in the Chamber was responsible for any of what has happened in the south east. I was simply saying there was a problem and that it needs to be solved. There is also room for constructive criticism of the Government, because it is this Government — in the form of the Minister of State's colleague, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation — that published the Forfás plan. A previous Minister who sat in that chair acknowledged there was a lack of deliverable targeted responses and that the plan was long on high aspirations and short on specifics.

The Minister of State asked about solutions. The solutions are obvious and staring us in the face when we look at the figures I gave. The solution is balanced regional development. The plan, for example, talks about the region playing to its strengths in life sciences, internationally-traded services and other areas on which we can concentrate. The enterprise agencies should give us the support we need to achieve this. We have seen that from 2009 onwards, companies in Waterford and the south east have received less grant aid at a time when more money is being spent, and that the area has the highest unemployment levels in the country. We must point out these failures. These may not be the fault of the Minister of State sitting in the chair, but they represent a failure of his Government, previous Governments and the State agencies to bring about balanced regional development. Whatever solutions, positive as they are, are established by this Government, I will fully support them, because we all want to see jobs for people in this country, but where there are shortcomings, I am sure the Minister of State will agree that we have a responsibility to point them out.

It is not just a matter of identifying a set of metrics from 2007 to 2010. We need to consider the problem from a qualitative point of view. We cannot just extrapolate from the rate of investment by IDA Ireland or Enterprise Ireland and say that in monetary terms, the south east has not benefited, because other regions have the same claim, in real terms. We can say that the larger urban areas such as Cork, Dublin and Galway have a disproportionately high rate of inward investment in the form of IDA projects, but we also need to consider human capital, soft skills and the relationships among stakeholders. There is now a model, sponsored by the Minister, Deputy Bruton, to deal with this. It is not that I am being defensive. If we are debating an issue, we need to set out the parameters for that debate. We must have due regard to the fact that all of the stakeholders want to drive this on. In fairness to all political entities, they also want to drive this on. If it needs to be critiqued, we are open to that. However, it is not just a question of investment by the IDA, although that is one aspect of it. It is a question, also, of ensuring that we can deliver on education. Senator Cullinane will be aware of my commitment to the Telecommunications Software & Systems Group, TSSG, which is, as far as I am concerned, a beacon for the region. We need to mine more of that intellectual development and human capital. Inch by inch, that is what will restore the region so that we have a level playing field. I have listened to the points that were made. We are not going to be complacent about this. We have a job to do.

University Rankings

Is the Minister of State taking the remaining two Adjournment matters as well?

Then he will be here for a while.

Following on from the previous discussion, the key to solving the problem of unemployment is undoubtedly education. However, there is a need to accelerate this, because there is a generation of people who cannot wait around. Their contributions, their talents and their lives will be lost as a consequence of not being able to obtain employment. That motivated me to table this matter on the Adjournment, which relates to our third level institutions. We have had great success in this regard in the past 12 to 15 years, with a 60% increase in the number of students accessing our tertiary education system. That is to be welcomed; in fact, we have achieved one of the highest third level participation rates in Europe, which should be to the country's benefit in the future. However, it will only be to our benefit if the quality of the education is commensurate with the requirements of the economy and is of a standard that is favourable compared to other international educational institutions. Therefore, the decline in the performance of our universities, as discussed recently in an article in The Irish Times and also in comments by the new president of the American Chamber of Commerce, is of concern. In September last year the new Irish Times education editor said:

The new international league table is a serious blow to the Irish university sector. Two years ago TCD was in the elite top 50 colleges, while UCD was in the top 100. Over the past two years both of Ireland's leading colleges have lost significant ground.

During the course of the past month the newly appointed President of the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland, Mr. Peter O'Neill, also the managing director of IBM, made some arresting comments, of which we should all take note, about which we should be concerned and which we should seek to address in a way that avoids the impact he has foreseen. He spoke of concerns in respect of six of the seven Irish universities falling out of the Times Higher Education World University Rankings. He said that some Irish universities and colleges may need to merge to supply better educated graduates to industry and he expressed concern about the fact that Trinity College Dublin and University College Dublin had dropped out of the top 100, although I am unsure whether that is correct. He mentioned UCC, NUI Galway, Dublin City University and DIT. Some of these have dropped from the top 400 and some from the top 300. The alarming comment was that "Already, some of our member firms in the key Digital, ICT, life sciences, and financial services areas are reporting difficulties in hiring suitable candidates." He went on to say that "55% of the demand for ICT professionals in Ireland is being met by inward migration" at a time when our native population is crying out for jobs but obviously lacking the necessary skills and qualifications. He pointed out that these companies are highly mobile and had been attracted by good policies in the past which focused on the talent available. He noted that there had been a pro-business environment from Government at the time and suggested our position as the only English-speaking member of the eurozone was an advantage. These were among many of the reasons they came here. He went on say that if they could not find suitable talent here, Ireland would not be considered for future investments and, worse, that the existing operations may choose to move on to a competitor country where they could find qualified staff.

We have been warned that US companies may well bypass Ireland in future. This prompted me to put down this motion on the Adjournment to call on the Minister to make a statement on the specific intentions and measures he has in mind to address the concerns expressed by the President of the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland and which, I imagine, are shared by the Minister and by everyone in these Houses. There is urgency about this matter given what has been said.

I thank the Senator for raising this matter on the Adjournment. It is recognised that international ranking systems are referenced by international investors, employers and students and consequently they cannot be ignored. However, it should also be noted that these systems are not infallible and it is widely agreed that they should be interpreted with caution. We can draw encouragement from the overall performance of the Irish system on the latest Times Higher Education system performance tables which place Ireland firmly in the world's top 20. We are ranked 17th overall and sixth in the world relative to our GDP.

The focus in Ireland is on sustaining and advancing performance throughout the system as a whole rather than investing in elite institutions. Earlier last year the Minister, Deputy Quinn, set out his priorities for the development of the higher education system during the next 20 years and endorsed a range of actions to develop the quality of teaching and learning and to ensure the relevance of programme and curriculum design throughout the system. These actions are focused on improving the overall student experience and improving the quality and employability of Irish graduates.

On 30 January the President of American Chamber of Commerce Ireland joined the Minister, Deputy Quinn, the Minister, Deputy Bruton, and the Chairs of the Higher Education Authority, the expert group on future skills needs and ICT Ireland to launch a new action plan to address the high-level ICT skills needs of enterprise in Ireland. The action plan is available on the Department website. It was developed in response to a clear message from industry that there are ICT skills shortages and, more important, that jobs can be created if we have the graduates to fill them. In a highly mobile and global sector such as ICT, inward migration by skilled professionals will always play a key role in meeting the skills needs of companies. However, boosting the domestic supply of graduates for 21st century jobs is a key objective for the education system.

The action plan, published last week, has been developed during the past 12 months with close collaboration between officials of the Department of Education and Skills, the expert group on future skills needs, the HEA, ICT Ireland and the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland. It sets out short-, medium- and long-term actions with specific time-bound targets to meet the skills gap in the short term while, in tandem, building up the longer term supply of high quality graduates. This includes the establishment of an ambitious target of doubling the annual output of ICT graduates from 1,000 this year to 2,000 by 2018.

The skills shortages experienced have not arisen overnight and are not unique to Ireland. There are no quick-fix solutions that will meet all of the shortages overnight. However, the plan includes steps that will be taken to increase the supply of graduates within the next 12 months. The key action in this regard is the immediate roll-out of 750 places on 17 new fully funded graduate skills conversion programmes throughout the country. These programmes have been developed by public and private higher education providers in collaboration with industry partners. Participants on the programmes will obtain a post graduate qualification in core computing skills at honours degree level and will be offered a work placement with one of the companies involved in the design of the programmes. Details of all of the new conversion programmes are available on the BlueBrick.ie web portal. The majority of the programmes will be under way by March and applications can be submitted immediately through the website.

I welcome much of what the Minister of State has said. I realise the rankings are based on four pillars of research, including teaching, employability and internationalisation. Clearly, an element of subjectivity is involved. The first paragraph and other parts of the Minister's response could be interpreted as having a level of complacency. We whistle past the graveyard at our peril. Several issues were not touched on in the Minister of State's reply and I draw his attention to them. The issue of financial resources was touched on but what about the quality of management of our universities, the application of the professors and lecturers and the number of lecturing hours they deliver? There should be a greater emphasis on innovation in our colleges. The structures of the colleges, how they are managed, their quality, and how they are administered represent a large part of what we must address and attend to in order to extract best possible results from the scare resources we have to invest.

I appreciate the points made by Senator Walsh but I do not believe there is a sense of complacency. The opposite is the case; there is a great sense of urgency and there are sleepless nights in respect of how we should address this problem. The bottom line is that one can extrapolate from the Times Higher Education system performance tables. One can delve into the criteria they apply. Criteria for measuring rankings differ from one set of rankings to another. There is no sense of complacency. The data are important and widely reported and when the reports come in we take them seriously. In fairness our work and that of previous Governments with American Chamber of Commerce Ireland stands up. When they send signals across the table we sit up and listen, as have previous Governments; if messages come from them we take note.

It is important to realise that there are many Irish people working in US companies who have had long and distinguished careers in those companies. They are very attuned to their needs as well and they have the ear of Government. In fairness, traditionally Fianna Fáil Governments have set out this approach and have been a part of the process for the science, technology and innovation programmes. This is an apolitical area.

With regard to the points made by Senator Walsh, there is a strong sense of the urgency in respect of dealing with the skills shortages. However, the Senator will acknowledge that there was an over-reliance on construction and many children went into construction studies from second level rather than software engineering or other engineering programmes and one cannot turn around that ship overnight. It is healthy for the system to have world class researchers coming from abroad. It causes us to up our game. I appreciate the points made. There is no sense of complacency; we are moving rapidly to address the deficit.

Ábhair Oidí

Ta céad fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit arís. Tá mé thar a bheith buíoch de faoi theacht isteach le freagra a thabhairt ar an gceist atá ardaithe agam anocht. Baineann an cheist leis an maoiniú a bhí ar fáil dos na hábhair oidí atá ins na coláistí oiliúna agus a bheidh ag múineadh inár gcuid bunscoileanna amach anseo.

Mar chuid de gach cúrsa bunmhúinteoireachta — agus brisfidh mé isteach i mBéarla i gceann nóiméid chomh maith — caithfidh na daoine atá ag freastal ar an gcúrsa tréimhse trí seachtainí a chaitheamh sa Ghaeltacht le feabhas a chur ar a gcuid Gaeilge agus le heolas a chur ar shaol agus ar chultúr na Gaeltachta. Tá an maoiniú le haghaidh sin gearrtha dos na coláistí ag an Aire. Tá mé ag iarraidh fáil amach an bhfuil sé fós mar bhunriachtanas don chéim go gcaithfeadh na mic léinn an chuid seo den chúrsa a dhéanamh. Ma tá, cé tá chun íoc as?

I am raising the issue of primary school teachers who, when doing their training courses, have to spend three weeks in the Gaeltacht to improve their Irish and become knowledgeable about its culture and lifestyle. The Minister recently announced there has been a cut in the budget to allow them to do that. I am seeking clarification from him on this issue because it is still a prerequisite for teaching degrees that students have to do this part of the course. Who is going to pay for that? If students have to pay for it, it is estimated it will cost €750 per student, which is an extra cost to student teachers.

I echo some of the Minister's words. He mentioned that we need to look at things from a qualitative point of view, and not just at the metrics. This is an issue where we need to do that. There is a 20 year strategy for the Irish language which all parties in these Houses accepted and are fully supportive of. It was developed under the previous Government. It has been taken on board by the new Government and we have been told over and over again that the Minister for the Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht is fully supportive of and intends to implement the strategy.

This decision completely contravenes the ethos and word of the strategy and flies completely in its face. The 20 year strategy for the Irish language recommends that student teachers should follow a defined programme of language teaching in the Gaeltacht and that the tuition time and attendance of student teachers who attend such courses should be increased.

It also flies in the face of best practice, as outlined by the Teaching Council, in its new guidelines published for the teacher training colleges. One of its recommendations is that programmes should provide for an extended and re-conceptualised Gaeltacht residency which will now form part of the overall programme and be under the direct jurisdiction of the teacher education providers.

The strategy the Government told us it is fully supportive of and the Teaching Council recommends is that not only should these courses be kept but that they should be increased and improved. The funding has been pulled. I appreciate we are in straitened economic times but this is a very shortsighted cutback. People like Éamonn Mac Niallais, spokesperson for Guth na Gaeltachta, have said that the long-term effects of this shortsighted decision will cost the State even more money to put right when future teachers no longer have the standard of Irish to teach the language in our schools.

There is grave concern out there. The comprehensive study of the Irish language in the Gaeltacht, which was done in 2007 under the auspices of NUIG, indicated the language would die if we did not address at as a matter of urgency within 20 years.

One of the major issues was education. A sub-committee is implementing the 20 year strategy. It comprises members from the Department of Education and Skills and the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht. They are supposed to be looking at these issues. Did they discuss this issue before the cutback was made? This is a metric which does not consider the qualitative nature of the course, even taking on board the principles and policy of the Government.

This is also very important from a Gaeltacht perspective. It is an important industry which provides income for na mná tí who keep students and run the courses at a very economical rate. I ask the Minister of State to reply and reconsider the decision, and convey our concerns to the Minister, Deputy Quinn.

Iarraim ar an Seanadóir mo leithscéal a ghabháil toisc nach bhfuil Gaeilge líofa agam. B'fhearr liom leanúint i mBéarla, lena thoil.

This House is aware that, in the context of budget 2012 and the need for the State to achieve economic independence in the coming years, difficult choices had to be made to achieve savings. To this end, in 2011 all Departments carried out a comprehensive review of expenditure on all budgets and programmes, and proposals to achieve savings were put to Government. As one of the largest spending Departments, this was also the case in regard to expenditure on education.

In making these difficult decisions, priority was given to protecting resources for front line services as far as possible in the coming years. For example, the general average of 28:1 for the allocation of classroom teachers at primary level has been maintained and the overall number of special needs assistants and resource teachers will be maintained at current levels. However, savings had to be made, even against a background of the expected increase in the school going population in the coming years. One such decision was the abolition, for new students, of the grant paid for student teachers' three week placement in Gaeltacht summer colleges. Currently, satisfactory attendance at an Irish language course in the Gaeltacht is a compulsory element of the primary initial teacher education, ITE, courses.

In respect of students in the State-funded colleges of education, the Department pays a grant of €637 per student directly to the Gaeltacht summer colleges per three week course. This is an annual cost of over €700,000, representing moneys that would have to be found elsewhere within the education budget. The removal of the grant means students will be liable for the cost.

We would all prefer if this choice did not have to be made. It has to be viewed in the context of the prevailing requirement to reduce costs and achieve efficiencies where possible. This move brings the primary ITE courses more into line with a number of other types of degree programmes, such as language degrees, where students are required to bear the costs of additional special requirements themselves. For example, there are modern languages degrees where a stay in a foreign country might be required.

The Senator might wish to note ITE courses are being reconfigured in line with the recommendations of the Department's literacy and numeracy strategy and the Teaching Council's policy on teacher education, and the need to ensure that all primary teachers are competent and confident in their use of the Irish language, especially given its importance in the primary school curriculum. To this end, we are looking at raising the bar in regard to the Irish leaving certificate entry requirement for teacher education, but the quality of engagement during the Gaeltacht placement also needs to be of a high standard and be more focused on the outcomes required for our teachers.

I take it from the answer the requirement to do the three week placement will remain in place and students will have to cover the costs. There needs to be some form of recognition that there are many students from lower socioeconomic groups who will not be in a position to pay for courses, which would exclude them from the possibility of being able to complete their courses. The Minister should reconsider putting the funding back in place. In the overall context of the Department, this does not involve massive funding.

If that is not possible, there should be some form of funding available for people who cannot afford it, are in a position of hardship or come from very low income backgrounds. Such people should be helped in terms of funding for these courses in order that there is a fair playing field for all people across the spectrum from all parts of society. We should not create an elitist situation where if one has the money, one can get a teaching degree but if one does not one cannot. I fear that could happen.

The Senator's point is fair. I wish I was in a position to be able to tell him we can reverse this decision but we cannot. Some 80% of the budget relates to pay. There are commitments under Croke Park. I have to be honest and straight with the Senator. The decision has been made with regard to this budget line. However, the IT courses will be reconfigured in line with the recommendations. It is the case that the money is not there. I do not want to plámás the Senator or give him the usual political platitudes but I must be straight with him and tell him that the money is not there.

We could get into a debate about that but we do not have enough time on this occasion.

I thank the Minister of State for dealing with all four Adjournment matters.

The Seanad adjourned at 3.30 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 14 February 2012.
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