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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 1 May 2012

Vol. 215 No. 2

Adjournment Matters

Employment Support Services

I welcome the Minister of State back to the House. I wish to draw her attention to the eligibility for the ICT skills programme 2012. Many such programmes require workers to be unemployed for a time before qualifying for the retention of their social welfare payments, which can create problems for many people. I wish to read out a letter written by the local office manager in my county to an individual. It states:

I write in response to the inquiries you made to Ms Joan Burton TD, Minister for Social Protection, which were forwarded to me for reply on the matter of your eligibility to participate in the ICT Skills Programme, 2012.

In the first instance and referring back to your submission to the Minister, I accept you were given advice in late February that you were likely to be eligible to participate on the Springboard Initiative [. . .] and retain your Jobseekers entitlement whilst engaged on that training.

The Springboard Initiative itself was announced in May 2011 as part of the Government's Jobs Initiative, in order to offer people the opportunity to study on a part-time basis for higher education qualifications in areas where employment opportunities are expected to arise as the economy recovers.

No minimum jobseekers signing period was prescribed under the terms of the original Springboard announcement and with that in mind, my colleagues advised that your eligibility to participate on the ICT Skills Programme should not be problematic [to retaining your benefits].

However, after the ICT Skills Programme was formally announced as part of the joint Government — Industry ICT Action Plan, this Department received an instruction that for that particular programme, eligible applicants must [again] apply through the Bluebrick web site, but critically they must also have an existing jobseekers claim duration of at least six months in order to qualify to participate on the programme.

The same individual was told he needed to give up the programme, go back on the dole for six or 12 months and then start again, which is madness. There is unfairness here. I doubt if he is the only one informed of that by social welfare officers who obviously had misinformation or the information was just not available at the time. There is the obvious injustice of having to leave a course, sit on his backside for six months — which he does not want to do — and claim social welfare, when he should be doing a course. Even the formal response from the local office manager still got it wrong, because the requirement is not six months but threemonths.

Why is there a lack of communication from the Department of Social Protection and the local social welfare office as to what is happening? In this instance it is unfair. The person in question contacted the local social welfare office and was told he qualified for the scheme without affecting his benefits. He worked away and then came back to complete the appropriate form indicating he was now doing a course. He was then told his benefits could not be paid and he must either be cut off completely or start again. That situation needs to be investigated. While I do not expect the Minister of State to have the answer for this individual's query, I ask that it be investigated. However, I ask her to deal with the requirement for people to be unemployed for a time period. What is the logic for that? For people who want to do such a course it is unfair that they do not qualify if, for example, they are in receipt of payments for only five months — or in this case if they are in receipt of payments for two months and two weeks where the requirement is three months. It is an impediment for unemployed people wanting to start courses.

I thank the Senator for accepting that I would not have the answer to his specific issue. However, if he lets me have a copy of the letter, I can certainly get, if not a solution, at least an explanation.

The Department of Social Protection provides a wide range of second-chance education opportunities for unemployed people, lone parents and people with disabilities. The Department's objective in this area is to raise education and skill levels among the long-term unemployed in order to help them meet the requirements of the current market. The main scheme available for supporting unemployed people in accessing full-time third level education is the back to education allowance scheme, BTEA. Further support is afforded through the part-time education option, PTEO, which can facilitate unemployed persons who wish to pursue third level courses on a part-time basis. The BTEA is a second-chance education opportunities scheme designed to remove the barriers to participation in second and third level education. It enables eligible people on certain social welfare payments to continue to receive payments while pursuing an approved full-time education course which leads to a higher qualification than that already held.

Significant resources have been devoted to the BTEA scheme in recent years against a backdrop of fiscal consolidation. The budget for the BTEA scheme in 2012 is more than €183 million, and expenditure in 2011 was more than €201 million. The number of participants in the BTEA scheme has grown steadily in recent years. The most recent figures indicate that around 25,700 participants, 88.5% of whom were originally on jobseeker's benefit or allowance, have been awarded BTEA for the 2011-12 academic year. This represents almost a 3% increase on the 2010-11 academic year. The number of participants in the BTEA scheme has risen from 20,808 in the 2009-10 academic year to 25,032 in the 2010-11 academic year, which represents an increase of 20.3%. The 2009-10 academic year saw an increase of 79% on the previous academic year. A person wishing to participate in the scheme will need to satisfy a number of criteria, such as being a certain age, being in receipt of a prescribed social welfare payment for a specified time period, pursuing a full-time course of study leading to a recognised qualification in a recognised college and increasing his or her level of education with reference to the National Framework of Qualifications.

The ICT skills programme 2012 referred to by the Senator is supported via the PTEO, which is designed to facilitate jobseekers who wish to engage in part-time day, evening or weekend courses or more intensive short courses of education and training while retaining their jobseeker's payments, while an entitlement exists. The ICT programme announced by the Government in January offers people the opportunity to study part-time for a postgraduate qualification in areas in which there are currently skills shortages and in which more employment opportunities are expected to arise as the economy recovers. The programme allows graduates of different backgrounds to acquire ICT skills. The Department of Education and Skills clearly stated when launching the programme that participation in the programme will not create an entitlement to any income support payment, a student grant or the BTEA. Applicants must be currently in receipt of jobseeker's benefit, jobseeker's allowance or jobseeker's credits and have been unemployed for a minimum period of 78 days in the previous six months if they wish to retain their social welfare payments while participating in the programme. They are advised to apply at their local social welfare offices and verify they are eligible for participation. Participation on a course does not grant any extension to the normal period for which jobseeker's benefit is paid. The Department of Education and Skills attaches strict eligibility criteria in terms of qualifications required for this programme. The programme represents an excellent opportunity for those who meet these criteria to develop skills in the ICT area.

A waiting period prior to entitlement to programmes of this nature is considered essential to allow potential participants an opportunity to search for jobs and also to counter possible deadweight effects and ensure scarce resources are directed to those with the greatest needs.

I will not delay the Minister at all. The confusion is due to the fact that the letter stated the applicant should be in receipt of jobseeker's benefit for at least six months in order to qualify, but it is actually a minimum period of 78 days in the preceding six months. I imagine it was a misinterpretation of the intention. If I forward the particulars of the person's circumstances, the Minister might examine these.

As someone who has had some dealings with the social welfare system in the past, I believe 78 days might still represent six months because weekends are not counted. It used to be 390 days, which could be split into different periods.

Five days per week in one month still adds up to 20-something days. I think it is actually three months.

Yes, but it might just be the way the Department calculates it. I will take a look at the information the Deputy provides. I would not like to mislead him about the qualification period.

I thank the Minister of State.

Mental Capacity Legislation

I welcome the Minister of State back to the House and thank her for coming. I ask her to provide an update on the mental capacity Bill 2008. The Minister is, I am sure, well aware of the parameters of this Bill. My understanding is that it was to be published in April 2012. Could the Minister provide an update to the House about whether this is on target?

I am taking this on behalf of my colleague Deputy Alan Shatter, Minister for Justice and Equality, who is unavailable at present, as I am sure the Senator will understand.

I thank Senator Daly for raising this important subject. It is particularly appropriate that he is raising it today, as earlier today the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality launched its report on the hearings on the scheme of the mental capacity Bill. I welcome the committee's report and I assure Senators that the observations made in the report will be given full consideration in the finalisation of the text of the Bill.

When coming into office, the Government made a firm commitment in the Programme For National Recovery to introduce a mental capacity Bill that is in line with the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. The Government legislation programme published on 17 April indicates that the Bill is expected to be published in this session. I am pleased to inform the House that drafting is being finalised and that the Minister expects to bring the text of the Bill to the Government for approval in the next few weeks.

The purpose of the Bill is to establish a comprehensive framework to support persons lacking the mental capacity required to exercise their legal capacity. The Bill will reform the law in respect of adults who are vulnerable in the sense that they may lack some or all capacity to make important decisions for themselves. It will modernise the laws on capacity, some of which date back 200 years, and will bring Irish capacity legislation into line with current thinking and modern legislative frameworks worldwide.

In summary, the main purposes are to provide for supported decision-making for persons lacking capacity; to reform and replace the adult ward of court scheme with a new statutory framework governing decision-making on behalf of persons who lack capacity; to change existing law on capacity, shifting from the current all-or-nothing approach to a flexible, functional one whereby capacity is assessed on an issue and time-specific basis; to provide that where it is not possible to support a person in exercising capacity, the court or a personal guardian appointed by the court will act as a substitute decision-maker; to clarify the law for carers who take on the responsibility for persons who lack capacity; to establish an office of the public guardian responsible for the supervision of personal guardians and people conferred with enduring powers of attorney; and to repeal and subsume the provisions of the Powers of Attorney Act 1996 so that its provisions are brought into line with the general principles and best interests of the provisions of the Bill.

The guiding principles set out in the scheme of the Bill reflect the convention's principles of respecting the dignity and autonomy of each individual, including the freedom to make his or her own choices. The intention is that the Bill will specifically support the right set out in the convention to equal recognition before the law for all persons. There has been some delay in publishing the Bill, due in large part to the prioritisation of legislation required under the EU-IMF programme of financial support. However, the time has been well spent in fine-tuning policy. Since the general scheme was published in 2008, work on the text of the Bill has been informed by developing thinking in the field, not least the philosophy enshrined in the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

As a result of consultation and submissions received, the text has undergone some significant changes which the Minister, Deputy Shatter, will shortly put to the Government for approval.

I thank the Minister of State for her reply.

Rural Development

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills, Deputy Ciarán Cannon.

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I raise the issue of the setting up of a rural development forum or commission, to look after issues in rural areas, in light of the rural development programme from 2014 to 2020. As many issues affect us in rural areas it is important there are structures in place to examine the problems going forward. It is clear from the rural development programme there is a massive opportunity to create jobs in the agriculture and tourism sectors. The Leader companies in each county do wonderful work. If there was somebody to assist and guide them on their way it would be valuable. Issues such as rural resettlement and school closures would come within its remit because it all relates to rural areas. I await the Minister's response.

I am taking this Adjourment matter on behalf of my colleague the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney.

The rural development programme has a budget of €4.9 billion in a seven year period; this encompasses EU funds of €2.5 billion and the remaining funding of €2.4 billion is provided by the national Exchequer. To date, expenditure under the programme amounts to some €3.2 billion. The programme incorporates some of our most important schemes including on farm investment, LFAs, REPs and AEOS. Funding for Leader is also provided under the programme and this aspect of the programme is delivered through 36 local action groups which come within the remit of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. It is evident therefore that the programme makes a very significant contribution to economic activity in rural areas.

The rural development programme in the next round will run from 2014 until 2020. The rural development regime is part of the current CAP Reform discussions. In very broad terms, the challenge for the current round of CAP reform is to deliver a Common Agricultural Policy that is fit for purpose, that is coherent with the Europe 2020 strategy for recovery and growth, and that supports the twin goals of competitiveness and sustainability. The Commission's proposals on rural development were published last October and have undergone two rounds of detailed technical examination at Council Working Group level. Negotiations will continue at technical and political level in the next year or more, and it is likely that the texts will change considerably before final agreement is reached. CAP reform is subject to co-decision, and therefore the European Parliament will be a full partner in any final agreement that isreached.

The outcome of CAP reform will essentially set the context and policy framework for the future of EU agriculture and rural development. The objectives cited by the EU Commission in its reform proposals reflect this. The three objectives are viable food production in the EU, sustainable management of natural resources and climate action and balanced rural development. In regard to rural development funds, the Commission has not yet revealed its proposals for national allocations but has said it intends to base them on a combination of objective criteria and past performance. Ireland has concerns about this as some of the objective criteria being considered could lead to a significant reduction in Ireland's allocation. As such Ireland has called on the Commission to bring its proposal on this issue to the table as soon as possible. We are broadly satisfied with the thrust of the specific menu of rural development measures provided for in the proposals. The negotiation process is likely to be a long and difficult one, but all efforts are focused on achieving the best possible outcome for Ireland.

Extensive consultation is required as part of the process of development of all elements of the next rural development programme. This consultation will take place at a number of levels. Before preparing our programme, Ireland will be required to prepare a partnership contract which will encompass Structural Funds, the fisheries fund and the rural development fund. The partnership contract must be drawn up in co-operation with national partners such as relevant local authorities, economic and social partners and other representative bodies including environmental partners and non governmental organisations. These partners will be involved in the preparation of the partnership contract and the progress reports relating to thiscontract.

At the level of the rural development programme itself, a similar consultation process will take place. Consultees from a wide range of interests and stakeholders will be involved in the preparation, implementation, monitoring and evaluation of the rural development programme. Some of these will also participate in the programme's monitoring committee. In addition, an ex-ante and strategic environmental assessment will be commissioned. This will carry out an extensive assessment of all rural development issues and will draw conclusions on rural development needs for the next round. This process of analysis will be reflected in the programme.

The combination of the ex-ante and the strategic environmental assessment, together with the wide consultation process will mean that extensive consideration will be given to all rural development needs prior to the completion of the new rural development programme. This process should obviate the need for an additional forum.

I thank the Minister of State for a very good reply. I look forward to working with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney, and all the other parties to bring about a good outcome for the people of rural areas.

Cóimheas Dalta-Múinteoir

Cuirim céad fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Níl locht ar bith agam ar an Aire Stáit, ach os rud é go raibh an tAire Oideachais agus Scileanna anseo níos túisce, tá díomá orm nach raibh séábalta fanacht don díospóireacht seo. Táim ag ardú cás Scoil Náisiúnta Mhuire, an Tuairín agus tá a fhios agam go bhfuil eolas ag an Aire Stáit ar an scoil seo. Tá a fhios agam freisin go bhfuil gach duine ag léimneach suas agus anuas agus ag clamhsán faoi gach scoil atá ag cailleadh múinteora, ach sílim go bhfuil cás eisceachtúil sa chás seo. Chas mé le foireann na scoile maidin inné agus d'iarr siad orm é seo a ardú mar ábhar práinneach. Bhí 78 gasúr ar an rolla sa scoil i Meán Fómhair 2011. Suas go dtí an buiséad, bhí 76 gasúr ag teastáil, mar gur scoil Gaeltachta atá i gceist, leis an ceathrú múinteoir a choinneáil. Tá na huimhreacha sin athruithe anois, de bharr na hathruithe a thug an tAire isteach sa bhuiséad, go dtí 81. Tá beagáinín éiginnteacht faoi chéard atá ag tarlú sa chás seo mar rinne siad athchomharc ar an chinneadh a rinne an Roinn Oideachais agus Scileanna go mbeadh siad ag cailleadh an ceathrú múinteoir. Beidh 83 dalta acu ar na rollaí, ach dúradh leo go dteastaíonn 85 dalta le haghaidh an ceathrú múinteoir a choinneáil. I gciorclán eile atá eisithe ag an Roinn, deirtear má tá scoil trí oide ann a bhfuil 83 dalta acu, tá siad i dteideal an ceathrú múinteoir a bheith acu. Tá beagáinín neamhchinnteacht ansin.

To clarify, I know the Minister is aware of the position at the school. The school will have 83 children on its roll. When the position was reviewed the school was told it would need 85 children, as opposed to 83, to retain the fourth teacher. Apparently, another circular states that if a three teacher school has 83 students it will be allowed a fourth teacher, therefore, how is it the school cannot be given leeway in this scenario? The figures show that in the following year the school will have 87 students. I understand the Minister has said that if there is a decline in population there must be a reduction in the number of teachers. This appears to be a temporary blip for one year. The numbers are increasing and the school can prove it. We ask the Minister to take the case on board. The numbers will increase to 87 students. If it was a three teacher school with 83 pupils, apparently the Department would allow a fourth teacher. As the school has been told it needs 85 pupils to keep the fourth teacher there appears to be an anomaly.

What is the criteria used in assessing the school? It appears to be based on numbers only. I argue that is against the ethos of the 20 year strategy for the Irish language which the Department has bought into and plays a significant part in its delivery. The strategy is about defending the teaching of Irish in Gaeltacht schools. We know there is an uphill battle on to keep Irish as a living language. The school is doing a good job in that respect and has a strong Irish language ethos. To lose a teacher at this stage would be detrimental to the school. The double whammy is that it would get the teacher back in the following year. The teacher who has worked for a number of years with the children with special educational needs would have to leave and all that expertise would be lost. A teacher would start from scratch next year. The school would also lose five hours of tacaíocht foghlama — learning support that is available to pupils.

I have raised this issue on a number of occasions in the Seanad and I know from the Minister's response that if a pattern of continuous decline in pupil numbers can be seen over a number of years, he would cut the number of teachers. I accept his rationale, but I do not agree with it. He also said, however, that if the blip was temporary, he would give some leeway and look again at the situation. I appreciate that the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, will reply in a second, but may I request to meet the Minister to discuss this school? This is a very important issue. Not only will the school lose this post but as a result of the review of the DEIS schools and the reallocation of staff to urban areas, the school suffered the double whammy of losing part of the capitation grant again.

I look forward to hearing the Minister's reply.

Táim ag tógail an ghnó an tráth seo thar ceann mo chomhghleacaí, an t-Aire Oideachais agus Scileanna, an Teachta Ruairí Quinn. I thank the Senator for giving me an opportunity to talk about the staffing appeals process for primary schools.

The key factor for determining the level of staffing resources provided at individual school level is the staffing schedule for the relevant school year and pupil enrolments on the previous 30 September. The staffing schedule for the 2012-13 school year was published on my Department's website and includes an appeals mechanism for schools to submit an appeal under certain criteria to an independent appeals board. Details of the criteria for appeal are contained in my Department Staffing Circular 0007/2012.

As part of the new staffing arrangements my Department has expanded the existing appeals process so that it is accessible to the small primary schools that are losing a classroom post as a result of the budget measure. Such schools will not lose their classroom post if they are projecting increased enrolments in September 2012 that would be sufficient to allow them to retain their existing classroom posts over the longer term.

The school referred to by the Senator is in the Gaeltacht. It submitted an appeal to the staffing appeals board. All appeals submitted to the primary staffing appeals board were considered in accordance with the published appeals criteria. This was done at its meeting on 18 and 19 April. The appeal by the school referred to by the Senator was unsuccessful on the basis that the school did not meet the published appeal criteria. The board operates independently of the Department and its decision is final. However, the appeals board will review this decision if the school's actual enrolment in September 2012 increases to the required level.

A total of 367 schools submitted appeals to the appeals board of which 205 schools had their appeals upheld by the staffing appeals board. A summary outcome of the appeals is now published on my Department's website. Individual schools have been notified of the outcome of their appeals. The next meeting of staffing appeals board is due to be held on 14 June 2012. The latest date for other schools to submit appeals is 1 June 2012.

The final staffing position for all schools will ultimately not be known until the autumn. At that stage the allocation process will be fully completed and all appeals to the staffing appeals board will have been considered.

Go raibh míle maith agat. An bhful ceist agat, a Sheanadóir?

Tá. Níl aon ghlacadh agam le freagra an Aire Stáit, i ndáirire. Tá an pointe a rinne mé fós ag seasamh. Tá titim bliana, beirt dhaltaí, i gceist i gcás scoil an Tuairin. Tá na figiúirí ag ardú agus níl a fhios agam ar tógadh sin san áireamh.

I do not know if the appeals board took into consideration that although there will be an increase in enrolment, it is not up to the figure of 83, which is needed, but in the following year they will have 87 pupils. I appeal to the Minister of State to discuss this and arrange for the local elected representatives and a number of representatives to meet the Minister for Education and Skills. What will be lost is the expertise of the teacher who has been working with the children with special needs for the past number of years, yet the post will be re-advertised in the following year. That would be a significant blow to the school. I appeal to the Minister of State to see if there is anyway this can be reconsidered before September

As the Senator is aware, the new addition to the appeals process, whereby small rural schools could make the case to retain a teacher arose as a result of a significant discussion with rural representatives from both the Fine Gael and Labour parties, who asked for such an appeals process to be put in place. I am pleased that it has been put in place and that 205 from the 367 schools that submitted an appeal were successful in having that appeal upheld. The Minister rightly pointed out at the very beginning of the appeals process that it would be completely transparent and that schools making the appeal would have the criteria for the appeal published on the Department's website so that everybody would be aware of the targets that had to be reached in order to be able to lodge a successful appeal. Unfortunately, at this point, the school in question has not reached that target. It may reach that target in the future and, if so, under the normal staffing allocation process, it will be entitled to have an extra teacher awarded to it. There is no flexibility either in the appeals system or in the normal teacher allocation process to be able to look forward a year or two years in advance and conclude that a new teacher or a teaching post would be required at that point and have that post put in place immediately. That has never been the case as that is not the way the system works.

Between now and September, the enrolment could be proven to be slightly higher than 83 pupils or over 85, as the Senator pointed out, which would give the school the flexibility to re-engage with the appeals board to make the case. If the enrolment figure of 85 pupils cannot be reached, there is no point in further engagement.

The Seanad adjourned at 6.20 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 2 May 2012.
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